Home › News › Conejo Valley
God created marriage, Huckabee says
Ex-presidential candidate says he's not telling people how to vote on Prop. 8
Download this story as a podcast!
Mike Huckabee plays bass guitar Sunday at Calvary Chapel Thousand Oaks.
Former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee shakes hands with congregants at the end of the Sunday service at Calvary Chapel Thousand Oaks in Newbury Park.
STORY TOOLS 
More from Conejo ValleyChanging the definition of marriage would be like making Mona Lisa blond or touching up her smile, former presidential candidate Mike Huckabee said Sunday morning in Newbury Park.
The former Arkansas governor and Southern Baptist preacher spoke from the pulpit of Calvary Chapel Thousand Oaks in two services focused on Proposition 8, a state constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. He told about 1,000 people that marriage was created and defined by God, just as the Mona Lisa was created by Leonardo da Vinci.
"God doesn't want me to take my brush and paint over his masterpiece," he said.
Huckabee, 53, spoke and played his bass guitar at Calvary Chapel in March not long after conceding the Republican nomination to Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. He said he returned to address Proposition 8 because its ramifications reach way beyond California.
He again accompanied the worship band on bass before taking the pulpit.
Dressed in a dark suit coat and a pink shirt, he said he didn't come to confront or oppose gay people, rather to urge people to do a better job of explaining what marriage represents.
"The purpose of marriage is not for you to be happy," Huckabee said. "The purpose of marriage is so God can teach us how to love, like he loves us."
Jay Smith, executive director of the Ventura County Rainbow Alliance, said that while some people define marriage as a godly contract, it is also a contract with the government. Same-sex couples, he said, are entitled to the same civil rights as anyone else.
"This has moved beyond the discussion of marriage," he said. "It's a discussion of equality ... equal rights."
The Sunday services attracted current and former officials, including state Assemblywoman Audra Strickland, R-Moorpark, her husband and state Senate candidate Tony Strickland, Ventura County Supervisor Peter Foy and former Ohio Rep. Bob McEwen.
Federal tax laws don't prevent churches from addressing or endorsing initiatives but do prevent them from backing specific candidates, said Joe Conn of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.
McEwen urged people to vote for the Stricklands when he was introducing Huckabee from the pulpit.
"That's a personal opinion," he added.
Huckabee said he wasn't there to tell people how to vote on Proposition 8. But he told people that laws related to both life and marriage will determine the future of the universe.
"We will break ourselves by rejecting what would have given us the platform of success," he said.
Posted by handyhood on September 15, 2008 at 2:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
High_society- If you would take the time to really look at the issue on prop 8 would would realize that it isn't so much about being gay or not being gay. It is about our right to decide. We as a people in the State of Calif. already made this decision, but a small group of "judges" told us that we couldn't be trusted to make decisions and reversed what the People voted for! If Prop. 8 does not pass, then churches will not be able to turn down a marriage between gay people, regardless if it goes against what the church believes. If they do they can and probably will be sued, and or tried for committing a hate crime. This Proposition goes way beyond the scope of marriage for gays. It's about making sure that when the majority of people vote for something, a minority with cash backing, and a few liberal judges can't ignore what the majority has said and rebuke our vote! If a gay couple really "loves" each other, then it makes no difference if they are married or not. I really love my wife, and no piece of paper issued by the state is going to change how I feel or keep us apart, but in the eyes of God, we have taken each other to be Man and Wife. Therefore being "Married" in the eyes of God. God makes a marriage, and God has deemed that a marriage is a union between a Man and a Woman. Vote YES on prop. 8
Posted by ushldcallme on September 15, 2008 at 3:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There are only two choices and One will; God's will or our will. And there is only one who wants to change God's ultimate Will. God be praised!!!!!!!!
Posted by rbentrup on September 15, 2008 at 5:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.(NIV)
Posted by twbeem on September 15, 2008 at 6:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They should get married, let them be just as miserable, then flood the family law court with all the divorces.
Posted by lsgranberry on September 15, 2008 at 7:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is so sad when peoples hearts are turned against God which in turn gives power to Satan and the evil that is in the world. God is love. Please don't judge Him by "hypocritical" Christians (which many are not but used by the enemy to keep people from God.) No man is perfect. It is all about having a personal relationship with the Almighty God who created us for fellowship with Him through Jesus Christ, who took the punishment that all men deserve so we can have peace with God and life that lasts forever.
Posted by GrannyT on September 15, 2008 at 7:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Many people ask "What would Jesus do?" What did Jesus SAY? "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder." Matthew 19:4-6 (KJV)
It is more hateful to allow people we love to be headed down a dangerous road without telling them there is danger ahead. Yes, God loves ALL sinners so much that He died in our place. But, accepting His gift of salvation does NOT give us a right to continue in sin. People love to quote Jesus saying, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." They forget the rest of the story: "When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more." John 8:10-11 (KJV)
Posted by lawabider on September 15, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If we defined marriage WITHOUT RELIGIOUS CORRUPTION, we would call it two people committing their lives together -- to live together -- to share together -- to be companion and comfort to each other as they grow old... why in the world would ANYONE think they get to decide who your life partner is but YOU?? setting aside ALL spiritual beliefs, and since this is a matter of "government contract", who gets to decide why anyone would be entitled to lesser rights than the holier-than-thou male/female couples??? think about it...
Posted by stopit on September 15, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
lsgranberry, AMEN!!
Posted by caroldammit on September 15, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
But marriage is a RELIGIOUS CONCEPT, Lawabider.
I agree: marriage should be a holy covenant between one man and one woman...and it should be given back to the churches. It should have nothing whatsoever to do with law & civil rights. We should truly separate church & state by taking the special rights & privileges that have thus far been granted based upon a religious ideal, and making them available to any human beings who choose to enter into a contract to be legally and fiscally bound to and responsible for each other for the rest of their lives.
Posted by handyhood on September 15, 2008 at 8 a.m. (Suggest removal)
lawabider- Marriage is not a government contract. Marriage was defined as a contract between a MAN and a Woman long before the government got involved. We give our government too much power. We as a people already decided this issue and our government," Judges " basically told us to sit down and shut up! We need to put the power back into the peoples hands and take it away from the government. This, again, is not about Marriage. This is about our right to decide what WE want. Marriage is not a right, its a blessing.
Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on September 15, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
OMG
I've said it before, and I'll say it again..........Leave them be! If someone wants to get married, what business is it of ours?
Posted by Franko on September 15, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Huenemegirl-I agree. Live and let live!
Posted by DoctorDude on September 15, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wish Christians cared about more issues than just abortion and gays. It's all we hear from them. Too much hate spewed from these "loving, forgiving" folks.
Posted by lawabider on September 15, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That's just silly, Carol... Marriage is a binding CONTRACT under the laws of the United States and serves certain inalieable rights to those that MARRY... You can get married in a Church, a Synagogue, a Courthouse, on a hill, dropping out of an airplane, etc... WITH OR WITHOUT A RELIGIOUS SERVICE!! One of the reasons that gays are pushing so hard for this right, is that they are unable to be at the bedside of a dying loved one... Imagine if your husband was on his deathbed and the hospital FORBADE you to attend him??? How horrible is that? My God does not permit me to judge my fellow man nor render myself "righteous"... does yours??? I'm thinking not...
Posted by freethought on September 15, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I doubt if anyone claiming to know the origins of marriage actually did any research, especially the group that outright says, "God reate marriage."
The term "marriage was first used by the Greeks and the Romans in the 4th century. The first use of the word was in 342 A.D. - well after any of the events recorded in the bible. Any mention of the word in the bible must have been added after this date.
As for the idea of marriage, it has existed for thousands of ideas, and most likely originated in India. Hindus would "join" a man and a woman through a religious ceremony. Basically, the concept was a means of a man to accumulate female slaves. They were polygomists. That idea of marriage still persists today in some cultures.
God did not create marriage. That idea is ludicrous. The tying of God and marriage only serves to push this right-wing nut job's political agenda. He knowa that many Christian conservatives will rally around him and the republican party, shouting, "Amen Brother!"
Posted by freethought on September 15, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I meant, "God created marriage."
Posted by handyhood on September 15, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Patticake- How can you improve on perfection? The bible was written by man through inspiration of God. Are you saying God didn't get it right the first time? If everyone lived according to this book, we would not be having this conversation.
Posted by freethought on September 15, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Aaarrrrr High_Society - You be into Pastafarianism, might ye? Thanks for the update. It is the only true religion.
Posted by bbbdugout on September 15, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Just what we need - the government and the religious nuts telling people who they can marry and love - wasn't it the republicans who said we should have less government involvement in our daily lives - what a bunch of B.S.
Posted by icanilluminateu on September 15, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Huckabee is a JERK!!!
Posted by goodkarma on September 15, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is the way mediocre minds make themselves feel special and righteous: by putting a Christian face on their bigotry and narrow-mindedness.
Posted by sdetatae on September 15, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I wish more people could distinguish between civil & religious weddings/marriage. Prop 8 only effects civil marriage. It won't force any church or group to marry couples they don't want within that religion's definition but it will allow couples who have every right to choose the life partner of their choice to do so with the same legal rights and priviledges of other couples.
Posted by caroldammit on September 15, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Easy now, Lawabider! I completely agree that we all have the right to choose whomsoever we wish to share our lives with. I also think that it is an absolutely egregious breach of church/state separation to grant any special rights and privileges based upon any religious ideal. We need equal rights for ALL right now. My point is that most opposition to this comes down to "but marriage is a holy covenant, etc..." and the simplest solution is to actually separate church and state by acknowledging that marriage is the thousands of years old concept that it is and that it should have nothing to do with our government. Let the churches have "marriage" and change the name of the legal contract that carries with it all the rights and responsibilities of partnerhood to "civil union", or whatever we want to call it (what's in a name...after all?) and that should be the end of the debate & we should all be able to get along with our equal lives. Well, it's a nice dream anywayz. ;o)
Posted by LibertyLover on September 15, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If gay people want to be married let them. If doesn't bother me at all.
I know I'll never take Hucleberry's advice on anything
Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 15, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I heard that right after the Church service was over that Foy, the Strickland's, Sarah Palin and Huckabee got together and burned a big pile of books that they don't believe people should have the right to read. Here we are with our financial system collapsing leaving us on the edge of a depression and all these clowns care about is who is marrying who? They are no better than the Taliban! Vote out all republicans!
Posted by BeaHappi on September 15, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So men and women who don't believe in God or another higher power and those who don't attend church shouldn't be allowed to be married?
The religious ceremonies do not make marriage legal. Getting a marriage license and filing with the local government is what makes a marriage legal and binding.
Churches do not have to marry any couple they don't want to marry. There are plenty of churches that welcome ALL people, regardless of sexual orientation.
No on proposition 8! Enough is enough. There are plenty of bigger fish to fry.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THUMP-THUMP!...this is how it is.
THUMP-THUMP!...you're wrong...I'm right.
THUMP-THUMP!...I can't prove he exists, but God is everywhere.
THUMP-THUMP!...If I can't explain something...I'll just seal the deal with "God works in mysterious ways".
THUMP-THUMP!
LOL(TM)
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Huckabee doesn't represent all Republicans, let's be sure to make the distinction.
Posted by whatsup805 on September 15, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This quote sums it all up...
"I would rather live my life as if there is a God and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't and die to find out there is.
-Albert Camus"
Posted by johnnsc on September 15, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here is a thought…..
If former Governor (and Southern Baptist preacher) Huckabee had been elected President of the United States, would he embrace the constitutional right of Americans to choose their own religious beliefs – even though they may be different from his own. Would he respect other faiths such as Islam or Hinduism or would he claim that these religions are false and that everyone must embrace Christianity in or to enter heaven?
Posted by BeaHappi on September 15, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My point is, what does believing in God (or not) have to do with allowing same-sex couples to marry?
There are many heterosexual couples who did not get married in a church or temple, yet are legally married all the same.
I believe in God; I have very strong faith. I also do not believe that homosexuality is a choice and if same-sex couples love each other and want to make the ultimate LEGAL commitment of marriage then they should be allowed to.
And, just because someone is homosexual it doesn't mean that they don't believe in God. There are many Christian churches that honor and support homosexuals right along with heterosexuals.
If you don't believe in same-sex marriage, that's your right. But how does same-sex marriage affect your life, your marriage?
Posted by icanilluminateu on September 15, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If God created marriage, then who created divorce? And what about those people who decide NOT to marry? Are they turned away from God? Do they never lean "how to love?"
Huckabee is a JERK
Posted by sheltonclan on September 15, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually - this Prop. 8 has nothing to do with civil contracts. Civil unions can be entered by whomever.
All it does is restate the will of the people of California, who voted in Prop. 22 years ago with 61% approving. The people have spoken, but a court that felt it could legislate from the bench has overturned it. That's not right.
This has only to do with the definition of Marriage - it is not a hate attack on anyone. It is simply saying that marriage is between one man and one woman. Anyone else is free to have a civil union and get the same rights and responsibilities legally. There is nothing "unloving" about defending the traditional definition of marriage. I have nothing against gay couples having the same legal rights to inheiritance, etc. But, it isn't "marriage" as it has been traditionally understood.
No hate, no put-downs, no judges who legislate from the bench to overturn the will of the people.
And how does same-sex marriage affect me? Through the schools, through my church, through all the thousand little legal rivulets through which this decision would flow.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 11:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Did you guys see that Sarah Palin interview on Friday on ABC? Sarah Palin believes that homosexuals can stop being homosexuals through prayer.
Yet, some say Palin's NOT a religious freak?
I always love to hear the answer to this question:
"If before a H.S. football game, BOTH teams pray to God for victory, why is it that only 1 team wins?"
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hold up, this is the issue I have... I am a social conservative, I am a right winger...BUT, that is ONLY how I choose to live my life. They are MY values and I don't force them on people. I am pretty accepting of other people's life choices. You are generalizing all conservatives as these religious freaks...which we are not. Some may stand firm in their beliefs and try to strongly encourage others, but they are no different than people on the other side of the opinion pushing their beliefs.
And Paul, you are awfully cynical about marriage...
I've been with my husband 17 years and it's been a wonderful marriage, thank you very much!
I personally believe marriage should be between a man and a woman, however, if gays are allowed to marry, it won't affect my life or my marriage in any shape or form.
I have had the pleasure of getting to know some gays and I wouldn't deny them love or happiness.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 15, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower - LOVE your post!
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Sarah Palin also said those are HER beliefs and not something that she would be pushing in the White House.
There is a separation of living your life one way and accepting other people's choice to live their way.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks, Bea! :)
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildGermanFlower:
My definition of religiuos freak is one that BLINDLY believes and follows their chosen faith to the point that they feel they need to judge everyone around them that fails to fall within the confines of said beliefs. Mostly myopic people that believe "their" way is the RIGHT way...which leaves everyone outside of "their" way as WRONG.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 11:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower: Oh..that's right and we've never had someone in office that has used their unique line of communication with God as the deciding factor for certain foreign policy decisions?
It's important that those in office are at the very LEAST, open-minded. Somehow, that political party does not have a good recent track record of seperating their religious beliefs from their decisions made in office.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society: Roe v. Wade is the easiest way to impose her religious beliefs upon the country.
It's crazy that when prompted about what types of things would make her a "reformer" in Washington, she first cited Roe v. Wade. Agenda? Religious Agenda?
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I get that BzD, but there is a generalization of all conservatives. We are all painted as being so far right and out of touch with anyone else. It's not true!
We are not all judgemental, we are not all hypocrites and just because we BELIEVE something is meant to be one way, doesn't mean that we think a different way is wrong.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am also opposed to abortion...but I believe in a woman's right to make that decision for herself.
Abortion is not ever going to be overturned no matter who is in office. There would be such an uproar if they ever attempted to do that, it would be putting woman's rights back too far and I can't see any politician ever taking on that fight...it's like illegal immigration, they won't touch abortion because of the votes that would be affected.
Posted by del on September 15, 2008 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is cool...
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower: You're not a religious freak. You're not myopic in terms of your religious beliefs and whether society shares them or not.
As for the abortion issue...it COULD get over-turned once in office. Yes, they're be an uproar, but it's not feasible to believe certain people WOULD do it. What it would actually accomplish other than to create revolt and further engdanger the lives of the women that still would choose to get the procedure done is beyond me.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 15, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The gate to eternal life is narrow ang rocky, the gate to eternal death is wide and sliding..... Think before you jump.... God bless !!!!!!!!
Posted by 2BR_BZT on September 15, 2008 at 11:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
WOW...when my husband and I got married 42 years ago at ages 18 years old..it was going to be all wrong.
We were too young, we came from different sides of town,
now we would never go to College (we did) and why would we go against the wishes of a parent like that.
Well, marriage between 18 year olds was legal..so we got married legally...so be it.
Marriage between same sex partners is legal in California..and many partners will get married...so be it.
I always smile when I hear the word 'partners and love' together...because I would describe my loving marriage as a partnership, for sure.
Posted by rickcwood on September 15, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The problem with this whole issue FIRST and foremost is the action of the four judges who made Prop 8 an issue. They overturned an issue voted IN by the public, thus making them the policy makers...if the shoe were on the other foot, then there would be an uproar. The first issue is the issue of activist judges. This country is supposed to be built, "for the people, by the people." The people spoke with their votes and it was taken away by the four judges.
I challenge all people to dig deeper than news stories and rants about either side. The truth is that a legal binding contract (civil union)was already available to same-sex couples in California BEFORE this. The issue is now over the WORD marriage.
And why can people not agree with same sex marriage without being called a "hate mongers?" There are NO CIVIL rights violations inherent in legislation that says "marriage" is a contract between to opposite sex people and a "civil union" is one between same sex people.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That is a good point, Rick. They also did the same with the prop 187 as well.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 15, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
rickcwood...I mean this in the most respectful way...why do you care if same-sex couples can enter into marriage?
How does this personally affect your life?
And you're right, not all who oppose same-sex marriage are hate-mongers (see hotwildflower's post above). I just don't get how this will change the day-to-day existance for opposers at all.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Didn't they also do it with the legalization of MJ too?
Posted by LadyBug on September 15, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Marriage is between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN!
We will all stand before our GOD one day and will
be praising HIM in HEAVEN!
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
there's an understatement, HS
Posted by NavalAviator on September 15, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
God may have created marriage, but the devil created some of the pairings.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Comments like that are what I am fighting against with the generalizations!
NOTE: Not all Christians share those beliefs.
I actually think Ellen and Portia are both beautiful women...in the most straigt way...haha
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 12:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That's true, CatInAHat, who ever married you must have been something horrible in a prior life...
Posted by lawabider on September 15, 2008 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And find me a hetero man that would turn his head from the vision of two women together -- there's hypocrisy at the top of the list!!! I'm with Hot and High in that whatever OTHER couples do does NOT affect me and mine... Let them have their marriages already! NO ON 8!!
Posted by BeaHappi on September 15, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
johnmuir96...nice, real nice.
I feel bad for you though; living with such a small mind and all.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 15, 2008 at 1:14 p.m.
(This thread was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by marketrealist on September 15, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Interesting thing about some Christians - They object to abortion but don't want to provide healthcare to poor mothers raising children. They are against abortion but support the death penaly. They oppose abortion but are the first to support wars in foreign lands that kill hundreds of thousands. They say god created all things but denounce homosexuality in his creation. I wonder how they live with the contradictions. I guess they just don't think about it.
Posted by cmpvr on September 15, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Blaming this on "activist judges" is a bit strange. The whole idea that judges legislate from the bench is a tired conservative talking point. They are doing their jobs to interpret the laws. Just because a law is passed by proposition doesn't mean it is constitutional. If a judge's opinion doesn't match your desires it doesn't make them an "activist". True, a judge's decision might be influenced by their politics, but that goes both ways.
Personally, I don't think churches should be allowed to own the concept of marriage, but if they want to define it a certain way that is fine. The state should then use their own legal contract system that does not discriminate.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 1:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm glad you said..."some Christians"...
By the way, MediCal provides for the poor, Healthy Families provides for those who make too much for MediCal and it covers children for a very reasonable rate. There is also AIM.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 15, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As I mentioned earlier, there are only two choices: God's Will or your own will. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and life..." (John 14:6), and "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5). Do not be in denial, nor say that you were not warned. God bless all !!!!!!!!
Posted by marketrealist on September 15, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
HWF, I do mean some because Unitarians, Unity, Presbyterians, Anglicans/Episcopalians, and Methodists are so much more balanced in their politicial positions.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 15, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yeah, I hear ya...as a Catholic, I am completely off balance!
Posted by 2wheelsguy on September 15, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Huckleberry Hound was here? Hot damn, I missed it. Did he bring El Kabong with him?
Posted by rickcwood on September 15, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Beahappi,
You ask, "How does this personally affect your life?" That's a great question.
Since the world isn't all about me, it doesn't matter too much how it affects me...what concerns me is the precedent it sets. That eventually in the State of California house of worship may possibly face fines, etc. for NOT marrying people of the same sex, or opposing the lifestyle. That may be paranoid, but by reading some of the posts on here it might not be.
Listen, if the good people of the State of California want to vote this in or out, I will following along. I have a chance to exercise my right and voice my opinion. We can't let that be taken out of the hands of the people.
And as far as the post calling "activist Judges" a right wing thing...yes judges interpret law to apply it...NOT make it up! It was not their position to do so...you are basically arguing that these "enlightened judges" are rescuing us from the minority right-wingers...which is faulty logic and not the truth.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 15, 2008 at 4:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience." Luke 8:11-15
"... in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!
"...all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned..." 2 Timothy 3:1-14
God bless you abundantly !!!!!!!!
Posted by ushldcallme on September 15, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5
"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
God love you !!!!!!!!
Posted by ushldcallme on September 15, 2008 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"My son, forget not my teaching, keep in mind my commands; For many days, and years of life, and peace, will they bring you. Let not kindness and fidelity leave you; bind them around your neck; Then will you win favor and good esteem before God and man. Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own intelligence rely not; In all your ways be mindful of him, and he will make straight your paths." Proverbs 3:1-6
Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 15, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will be voting against Prop 8.
The joining of men and women for the purpose of creating families or social units intended to advance the group has been the situation long before the bible or any other similar religious window dressing Man has cared to employ. It is clearly the most common form of human bonding, but it clearly is, and has not been, the only one.
Much of the more recent concept of civil acceptence of "marriage" came about very recently in this county, mostly to prevent black men from marring, having sex with, or procreating with white women. (Clearly from Thomas Jefferson on down, impregnating black women wasn't quite on the same page)
Whatever the shamans, immams, priests, padres, snake-handlers, tongue-speakers and other religious types would have us believe, "marriage" has now evolved into a construct of the modern State. Rights and obligations are now tied to the civil codification of that relationship, not by religious mumbo-jumbo, but by laws created for all society to live under.
I'd have no problem with some "civil union" that allowed ALL of those same rights and obligations between same sex unions as are allowed to non-same sex unions. Let some religious entity call it "marriage".
Frankly, the name does not matter to me, it might to some, but I'm more interested in maintaining a level playing field when it comes to Rights under Law. The State should only recognize the contractual relationship two people take upon themselves. The Law recognizes special attributes to those who "marry". Religious stuff should stay in the private sector! If two same sex people get equal rights under the Law, I'm done with that whatever it's called.
Denying those rights to those who do not fit a narrowly defined description of unions (who otherwise fulfill the obligations) is the problem.
Hetero marriage is far more under assault by divorce and the various forms of infidelity, not Gay marriage. That argument is plainly bogus.
We'd all be better off to mind our own business, and properly regulate our own behavior.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 15, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"johnmuir-
Send your kids to private schools. Problem solved, voila!"
...and you might want to join them and take some grammar and writing classes yourself.
Posted by ostentacious on September 15, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I might just be hallucinating, but I seem to recall a little thing called SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.
Religious beliefs should have absolutely nothing to do with laws!
Posted by johnnsc on September 15, 2008 at 7:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ostentacious.....Christians do not respect separation of church and state because it is a law of man. Some Christians, not all, feel above man's law.
Posted by Jerkle on September 15, 2008 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm a christian and I believe that marriage should be between one man and one woman as God intended. But homosexual's should perhaps be allowed a civil union so that they can be granted all the benefits and whatnot. But this union is strictly a civil union.
Posted by jill on September 15, 2008 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Religion does not run the government. First it was women being allowed to vote, then blacks being given equal rights as well. Now it's time for gays to be treated as equal human beings. There are many religions and gods in this world. Why would one be the controlling factor?
N Cash, regarding what you said about Sarah Palin, I totally agree with you. She is creepy!
Posted by 2wheelsguy on September 15, 2008 at 9:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I think it's time to start taxing religion. Why should the business of controlling people's minds with nonsense be immune from taxes?
Posted by 2wheelsguy on September 15, 2008 at 9:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That Huckleberry, oh so berry Huckleberry hound!
Posted by handyhood on September 15, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This post is funny! Most of the people posting think that prop 8 is against Gays from entering a civil contract the State calls marriage. It isn't!! It's about the will of the people being undermined by four "judges" who have decided because of their own agendas that they can tell the majority of people that voting doesn't mean anything at all. They say it's not Constitutional, well how is a constitution made except for and by the will of the people. I am a Christian, and though I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, I am not saying God does not love all people. In my eyes and according to the Bible, Homosexuality is a sin! Jesus has told us however to hate the sin, but love the sinner. It is up to God to Judge, not me. I am voting yes because I don't want Four arrogant judges trying to tell me that they have the final say on anything. Save democracy and vote yes. Then we can vote to create a civil partnership so that gays can reap the same benefits as a Married couple. Isn't this the bottom line anyway?
Posted by bikosan on September 15, 2008 at 9:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First and foremost, earlier in this thread, it was said that the Bible was written by man and should be updated by them as well. If one were to do research, you would find that the Bible says that it was written by man inspired by God. It later says, that anyone who takes away from or adds to the Bible will be judged accordingly. All I ask is that, if you do research, make it thorough.
getting to the task at hand, i have heard stories of people who have used prayer and faith and have changed from hetero- to homo- and back. what is worrying me thoroughly is what is discovered when we look at history. every great society only falls after it grants total freedom to its people, including rights allocated to homosexuals: Rome and Greece most notably. what has really kept America alive this entire time is the fact that the laws passed haven't been what the people wanted. rather it is in the laws that the people needed, regardless of whether the people were happy about it or not. granting people absolute freedom of anything is always a bad idea, simply because we as humans are, no offense intended, too stupid to know how to handle it. and that remark applies to everyone, regardless race, color, creed, or intelligence. we as a species do not comprehend how to manage something we have absolute freedom in. it is what lead us to our fall from glory in the garden, and it lead to the fall of every great known society, from Babylon to Rome and it may very well be the fall of America.
Posted by bythebeach on September 15, 2008 at 11:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
bikosan
You said it best.
Bless you, Amen.
Posted by hockeyfan3144 on September 16, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Romans 1:18-32
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator–who is forever praised. Amen.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done.29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,30slanderers, God–haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents;31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Posted by hockeyfan3144 on September 16, 2008 at 7:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Romns 1 26:26-27
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
bikosan - Most who hold complete blind faith in any religion tend not to know much about it. They would rather not research any of it. Rather, they prefer to be force-fed information at the reptilian-brain level, while playing ostrich by keeping their heads in the sand. It's as if they prefer to be uncoupled from the human species altogether.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hockeyfan3144:
I Realy Wish You Didn't #3:
I'd really rather you didn't judge people for the way they look, or how they dress, or the way they talk, or, well, just play nice, okay? Oh, and get this into your thick heads: woman = person. man = person. Samey = Samey. One is not better than the other, unless we're talking about fashion and I'm sorry, but I gave that to women and some guys who know the difference between teal and fuchsia.
--Flying Spaghetti Monster
Now, there's some real scripture to follow!
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jerkle - I can see that your heart is in the right place, but you, as so many other Christians, are still trying to force your definition of marriage. One religion should never be allowed that sort of control - especially in a country where we are supposed to be practicing "freedom of religion" and separating chruch from state in order to allow for that freedom.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
bythebeach - Ditto. Bikosan's comment was on the mark.
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society said,"GrannyT-All bacon eaters are going to hell. You might want to go to IHOP and tell them how wrong they are in eating bacon. One sin is not worse than the other. Now, go!"
You must have missed the part where God told Peter to rise and eat; "But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common." "Acts 10:14-15 (KJV)
I've been told that the reason behind the difference in the Old Testament teachings and New Testament teachings on "unclean" foods is that in OT times people didn't know how to clean and cook foods properly. Most people know there are still dangers from eating pork when it isn't cooked thoroughly; which makes what I was told sound logical.
AIDS is rising among homosexuals even though it is declining among other groups; which leads me to believe there are still dangers with homosexuality even if someone doesn't want to believe the Scriptural warnings about risking one's eternity.
Posted by hockeyfan3144 on September 16, 2008 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Freethought: You wrote " I realy wish you didn't#3" Now why can't I post scripture? you have posted idea's that I do not agree with and I am not trashing you about it. This is a free forum now isn't it? By the way, this country was founded on Christianity. In the Preamble it states:
"and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" also on our money it says "In God we trust". It is the minority that do not believe in God and I believe we as Christians need to speak up.
Now I have said my "peace" and not once did I say any rude remarks about you.
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
I guess you missed the words of some of our founding fathers.
Patrick Henry said, “It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
John Adams said, "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
John Quincy Adams said, “Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer's mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity"?
Posted by hockeyfan3144 on September 16, 2008 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GrannyT- Thank you for helping me make a point.
highsociety you don't need to trash someone to make a point.
Posted by sdetatae on September 16, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Bikosan,
I find it interesting that you use the same argument as those through history who argued the case for autocracy.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hockeyfan3144 - Talk about missing the point. I was simply doing what you did - posting scripture. It from the holiest of holy - The Flying Spaghetti Monster. I wasn't telling you not to post, only offering a more accepting path than the rigid "You're All Going To Hell" version you posting.
Get a grip. Yours isn't the only God, and could well be false. My God, with his noodly goodness, is absolutely the real thing.
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
But by the grace of God; I would be going to hell; because "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23 (KJV)
Thankfully, God didn't leave it there.
Romans 5:8 (KJV) "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."
1 John 1:9 (KJV) "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 (KJV) "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
Once we admit we are sinners, repent of [turn from] our sin, and ASK God to forgive us of our sin; He will save us. Then He can help us change (as in the "such WERE some of you" part of that last verse I posted from First John chapter 1.
It's not my job to judge anyone. It is my job to warn them and pray that they might be willing to turn from their own way toward God's way so they might be saved.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Quotes from Thomas Jefferson:
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another, for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind."
"It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it."
"The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore."
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Quotes from John Adams:
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity. Nowhere in the Gospels do we find a precept for Creeds, Confessions, Oaths, Doctrines, and whole cartloads of other foolish trumpery that we find in Christianity."
"The question before the human race is, whether the God of Nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."
"Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1,500 years?"
". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There are more quotes from these men, along with Ben Franklin, George Washington, and other. These men, some of our most noted our founding fathers were deists. Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, and we all know how important a role he played in the further development of our country's tolerance towards others.
The point is, GrannyT and others, that our founding fathers were of differing beliefs. They were unanymous in their quest for freedom to practice the religion of their choice.
Your statement that this country was founded solely by Christians is moot. Check your facts first, next time.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society - Your comment brought up a thought. It could well have been the Egyptians who influenced the beliefs of the Hebrews. One of their main mythological stories involves Egyptians (they play the "bad guys", although evidence shows that Ramses was more of a personable business man than an evil Hebrew-killing dictator).
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
[quote]Thomas Jefferson:
“ The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend to all the happiness of man.”
“Of all the systems of morality, ancient or modern which have come under my observation, none appears to me so pure as that of Jesus.”
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.][/quote]
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFo...
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Re-posting first paragraph of my comment above (two up) with grammatical corrections:
"There are more quotes from these men, along with Ben Franklin, George Washington, and others. These men, some of our most noted founding fathers, were deists. Abraham Lincoln was an atheist, and we all know how important a role he played in furthering the development of our country's tolerance towards others."
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GrannyT - You're simply another bible thumper missing the point. Jefferson was sarcastically comparing himself to people like you, indicating that his morals and ideals were more in line with Christ's than those who call themsevles Christian. Jefferson absolutely admired Christ and his teachings. Christ was tolerant. You are not. Jefferson attempted to follow in Christ's example. You should probably try to do the same.
I know atheists who are more like Christ than you.
Posted by hockeyfan3144 on September 16, 2008 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
John 14:15-31
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
15“If you love me, you will obey what I command.16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever–17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[3] in you.18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.19Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live.20On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.21Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”
22Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
23Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
25“All this I have spoken while still with you.26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.29I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe.30I will not speak with you much longer, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold on me,31but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.“Come now; let us leave.
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
I'm not homophobic either. Several years ago I lost a cousin to AIDS because of his lifestyle choice. I have loved ones that are homosexuals, alcoholics, some with criminal records, etc. It's not the people I hate; it's the sin. For the record: I'm not perfect; just forgiven by God's grace. I'm one of those people that really believes the Bible is the Inspired Word of God that does not contradict itself. The problem comes when it contradicts our lives.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV) "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
God gives us the choice of salvation and letting God change us: "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." 2 Corinthians 5:17 (KJV)
or face His Judgment: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:12-15 (KJV)
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For those that are implying I don't know much about our religious liberty; I suggest you read a little more about it, too. Our founding fathers are right. There has been a lot of blood shed using religion as the reason. It is still going on today including the Muslim extremists that are determined that the world be converted to their religion or die. For the record; no one can threaten me with heaven. "Give me liberty or give me death."
I read "The Trail of Blood" and other books about our religious history. The Bible is still my favorite; and I can't stand going a single day without it.
For those that might be interested in the history of America's religious freedom and WHY many of us believe in absolute religious freedom; I'd encourage you to read an article on my blog site,"LECTURE FIVE–RELIGION IN THE UNITED STATES"
http://grannyt53.wordpress.com/
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
I'm not ignorant to the AIDS epidemic in Africa. I have close friends (my former pastor and his wife) that have been missionaries to Kenya for over 30 years. She works in an AIDS colony teaching the victims (among other things) how to raise their own food and cook it. They told us over 20 years ago that the reason Africans were hit so hard had little to do with homosexuality. But, a lot to do with immorality in heterosexual relationships.
Where have YOU been? Is Aug. 4,2008 recent enough for you? Read "As AIDS Conference Opens, amfAR Releases Report Exposing Global Failure to Address HIV Among MSM." The article says, "In the United States, a new report released Saturday by the CDC showed that HIV infections among gay men have risen 75 percent over the last 15 years."
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story...{2B0FA314-C951-44C8-986F-AED26DCE8AA9}&dist=hppr
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 3:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'll try the link again. Maybe it'll work this time.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story...{2B0FA314-C951-44C8-986F-AED26DCE8AA9}&dist=hppr
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
As I mentioned; my missionary friends said AIDS is linked to immoral life styles. Yes, many innocent people contact AIDS through blood transfusions, an infected spouse or parent, etc., too. But, immorality is still often at fault, whether it be from sharing contaminated needles while shooting drugs, or from heterosexual or homosexual "indiscretions"
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I just Googled "CDC HIV" and found a dated today.
"...Eighty percent of new HIV infections in women in 2006 stemmed from heterosexual sex with a high-risk partner, CDC data indicate. C. Virginia Fields, president and CEO of the National Black Leadership Commission on AIDS, said that "because of how this (disease) is spreading through heterosexual black women," it makes sense to discuss the connection to men who secretly have sex with other men, as well as to the number of black men who return from prison and are not tested for sexually transmitted infections before having sex with their girlfriends or wives. According to the CDC report, male-to-male sexual contact accounted for 63% of new HIV infections among black men. In addition, CDC estimates that HIV prevalence among those who are incarcerated is about five times higher than that of the general population, U.S. News reports."
I'll try to post the link for the article titled, "Kaiser Health Disparities Report: A Weekly Look At Race, Ethnicity And Health."
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/daily_re...
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't blame me if you don't like what God says in the Scriptures or what the statistics say about the higher risks among homosexuals. I didn't write any of it; don't shoot the messenger.
As for cancer, the last I knew there are lifestyle things like 1st and 2nd hand smoke that cause higher risk as well as certain types of foods, pollution, etc. There are also foods that can help reduce cancer risks; like fresh fruits and vegetables.
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 4:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
What makes you think I'm ignorant of the "real world" that has taken the life of not only my cousin, but also the lives of a few close friends to AIDS? (Not to mention growing up with an alcoholic dad and uncle or raising 5 kids)
Before you go stoning anyone remember:
The Old Testament gave rules for sentencing people to death. "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one witness he shall not be put to death." Deuteronomy 17:6 (KJV)
In the New Testament, Jesus said, "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." -John 8:7 (KJV)
Posted by GrannyT on September 16, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
Isn't it obvious I read my Bible by all the quotes from it? So, will you tell me WHERE it says you HAVE to stone them by quoting chapter and verse?
Posted by BeaHappi on September 16, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sooooo.....let's all remember to get out and vote NO on 8! And YES on 6! (threw that in for you HS).
I hope that I get invited to a same-sex wedding...I'll have to start dropping some not-so-subtle hints to the gay couples that I know.
"What the world needs now is love sweet love,
It's the only thing that there's just too little of.
What the world needs now is love sweet love,
no not just for some but for everyone."
Posted by AnnaWhaat on September 16, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society ,Just wanted to make a comment to your one statement.
God doesn't turn people away, but it's funny that Christians do.
Ohhhh but he does. When you reach the pearly gates you either enter or you are sent to hell.
Thats my opinion. Thanks no offense.
Posted by jodysmith on September 16, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What about innocent children. Why do children have to be taught in school that this is acceptable. Would that not create more homosexual relationships. Children growing up and becoming teenagers.Teenagers who are not sure about there sexual identity would be more tempted to try things. Ask any gay person, honestly. They feel trapped and hate being gay. Why would we want to let this happen to future generations. It's unwise and destructive.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 16, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Someone called the other day to "make sure they had my support for Yes on Prop 8"....I told them to prove that God exists and I would vote Yes on the proposition.....they hung up.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 16, 2008 at 5:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
AnnaWhaat: "Ohhhh but he does. When you reach the pearly gates you either enter or you are sent to hell."
Prove it.
Posted by jodysmith on September 16, 2008 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My teens are taught tolerence. The things that are going on at the schools is unbelievable. They have special names for genders they want to be and there sexual preferences. bi curious, bi sexual, straight, gay. At 14 and 16, do you really know. If society accepts gay marriage,whats next. We have a problem. The issue isn't that we hate gays but that we are worried about our youth who aren't muture enough to make these types of dicisions. Mature adults can.
Posted by jodysmith on September 16, 2008 at 7:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Society will survive because some of us believe in God. Now, if you don't believe, don't get offended.You live your life, we'll live ours. Will see how the election turns out. Let the best man win.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 16, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO CHOOSE THE GOOD OVER THE EVIL, OBEDIENCE TO GOD THE ALMIGHTY -- ETERNAL HAPPINESS IN HEAVEN; OTHERWISE SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCE OF DISOBEDIENCE -- ETERNAL DEATH IN HELL.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 16, 2008 at 8:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh for goodness sakes! People are not "taught" how to be gay. Homosexuals are born that way. Stop worrying about your kids being swayed with "gay" juice and cookies!
A couple of weeks ago a young couple with a baby in a stroller was walking through our neighborhood. They stopped and asked my mom and I if we were going to vote and we said yes. Then they said that they wanted to talk specifically about one proposition and I stopped them and said "Is it about prop 8? Because if it's about prop 8 we are voting no." They were speechless...lucky for them! They just moved on.
I told my mom that I should have told them that we (me and her) were a couple!
ushldcallme...wow, thanks for that about choosing good over evil. Did everyone read ushldcallme's post? So...be sure to vote NO on 8 or you will suffer an eternal death in hell.
Stop your evil ways now...before it's too late. Vote NO on 8!
Live and let live!
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 16, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh yes GramMars, all people who do not want gay marriage must be haters, correct? Just like all people who want the borders enforced are racists, right? Stop spewing your own hate, and let the people vote on this issue...
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Don't blame me if you don't like what God says in the Scriptures or what the statistics say about the higher risks among homosexuals. I didn't write any of it; don't shoot the messenger."
GrannyT - God didn't say anything. Men who were either dilusional, hungry for power, or seeking fame wrote the scriptures. Of this, there is proof. Even within the Bible itself, it is admitted that men did all the scripting. Do you have proof otherwise? Nope, none at all. You can only repeat what others like you have said, and cut and paste biblical text.
By the way, you are putting us all to sleep with your preaching. Put a little fire into it, would you? Make it interesting for a change.
Posted by dr_l_ron_bumquist on September 16, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 16, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh yes GramMars, all people who do not want gay marriage must be haters, correct? Just like all people who want the borders enforced are racists, right? Stop spewing your own hate, and let the people vote on this issue..."
... with all sincerity, what the F{_}CK does this have to do with illegal aliens...? Gay illegal aliens? Wow, the "Star*(Free-Press) draws them out. I miss my hometown paper on Santa Clara St.
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 11:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Let the best man win."
Does that include Palin?
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 11:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"At first, I didn't take the movie as serious, but I did watch it like 20 times and took notes, and then I studied religion closer. At the time, I was getting ready to be baptized as a Mormon!"
See what a little research will do to your decision? High_Society, this is exactly why people like GrannyT won't do the research. Instead, she will keep twisting words of others to fit her ideals. Truth has no place in her world. Such is the way with bible thumpers (that does not include most Christians, by the way).
Posted by freethought on September 16, 2008 at 11:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO CHOOSE THE GOOD OVER THE EVIL, OBEDIENCE TO GOD THE ALMIGHTY -- ETERNAL HAPPINESS IN HEAVEN; OTHERWISE SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCE OF DISOBEDIENCE -- ETERNAL DEATH IN HELL."
Perfect example of how fear is used in religion to make you conform. What a wonderful God you must have to allow such a terrifying place to even exist. It all sounds quite cruel to me, not very loving at all.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Society will survive because some of us believe in God."
Men (Homo sapiens) survived just fine for hundreds of thousands of years before ever inventing God. We will continue whether or not God is in the equation.
Posted by jeffinventura on September 17, 2008 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What right do people have to impose their religion onto other people in the USA???
The ONLY objections I am seeing to providing EQUAL RIGHTS to all LEGAL ADULT RELATIONSHIPS on this board is religious objections.
Those are reasons why YOU should not have a gay marriage, but those reasons should NOT be used to judge how other people live their lives!
Religion is for personal use only....it is not intended to be thrust upon others who do not wish to follow along.
I have great respect for those of faith who honor and respect everyone else's rights as well. If you think that telling me that my relationship is not equal to yours is respectful.....well you are wrong.
GOD BLESSED ME TO BE WHO I AM AND LOVE WHO I LOVE!
Posted by Why on September 17, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
God created us and gave us the choice to decide what path were going to take in life. So if he created someone who ends up being gay isn't that his fault? He loves us all equally and always will. Our faults as humans are direct reflections of our creator. So if you consider being gay a sickness, fault or whatever you want to call it you'd have to take into consideration the person who created. Let gay's get legally married whats wrong with it. get over your fears. Also if your using your kids as an excuse it's time for you to own up to your responsibilities and not be scared to talk to your own child about sex and homosexuality. if you don't it's only your fault.
Posted by dom_kenpo on September 17, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I hate most human beings equally, regardless of age, gender, religeon, or sexual orientation.
If gays, or heterosexuals for that matter, want to get married, they should all be versed on the 3 rings of marriage:
Engagement Ring
Wedding Ring
Suffer Ring
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Matthew 16:21-27
Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer greatly from the elders, the chief priests, and the scribes, and be killed and on the third day be raised. Then Peter took Jesus aside and began to rebuke him, "God forbid, Lord! No such thing shall ever happen to you." He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are an obstacle to me. You are thinking not as God does, but as human beings do." Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life? For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay all according to his conduct."
Matthew 18:15-20
Jesus said to his disciples: "If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.' If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, amen, I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
God loves you !!!!!!!
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society,
<blockquote>You mean you only read what you want to read.
The Bible may condemn homosexuality, but it certainly condones pedophilia-
Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourself </blockquote>
Look who’s reading only what they want to read. When studying God’s Word we need to compare Scripture verses to other Scripture to find the true meanings. God is very protective of children and would not condone pedophilia. Jesus said, “It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.” Luke 17:2 (KJV)
In Numbers 31 Moses was upset that they had spared the males that may grow up to fight against Israel from the inside. Moses was clear in the two verses preceding the ones you quoted in that he wanted the women killed to prevent them to convince others to worship false gods. Numbers 31:15-16 (KJV) “And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.” Moses gave the soldiers permission to keep the female children as part of the spoil of battle as bondmaids or to raise to be wives for their selves, or their sons.
<blockquote>Deutoronomy 23: If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto a husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die
The Bible also condones abortion as well, in the instances where a birth is more sufferable than living a life.
Ecclesiastes 6:3 "If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he” </blockquote>
Once again you are reading what you WANT to read. Although the verse points out that it would have been better if that man that rejected God would have died in childbirth rather than facing the eternal punishment for his rejection; it does not give anyone the right to murder innocent babies forbidding them to make their own choice about receiving or rejecting God.
I read the whole chapter of Deuteronomy 23 and did not find the verse you “quoted” in that chapter.
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
GramMars,
I noticed you didn’t bother to quote the other verses in that chapter relating to the death penalty for both parties involved in adultery OR the verses telling unmarried participants to get married. For the record, there are sexual sins punishable by death in Old Testament law listed (adultery, homosexuality, and bestiality) in Leviticus 20:10-16.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Individual with the username "Why" - God didn't create me. A few moments of pleasure did. "Well, who created them?" you'll ask. Their parents, and so on, and so on... Around 4 billion years ago, our journey to what eventually led to you and me began as a pool of primordial soup. This much has been proven. All "missing links" in the evolution of man from the earliest primates have been discovered, so they are no longer missing. In this discussion, all the evidence is on my side, none is on yours.
Having your beliefs is one thing, and I respect your right to practice your religion. However, when you make statements like that on a public thread as if they are complete facts that apply to all, you invite people like me who don't share your beliefs to shred those statements apart with hard facts.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
jeffinventura - Nicely said. I agree completely.
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
freethought,
Did you miss the verses posted 9/16 at 2:22 PM describing how the writers of the Holy Scriptures were inspired by God and moved by the Holy Spirit as to what they should write? I’ll add a little “fire” for you.
How will unrepentant sinners feel when they stand before The Judge that knows EVERYTHING they ever thought, said, or did; especially when they realize The Judge won’t let them claim any of that evidence as inadmissible? Revelation 20:12-14 (KJV) “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
Jeremiah 5:3 (KJV) “O LORD, are not thine eyes upon the truth? thou hast stricken them, but they have not grieved; thou hast consumed them, but they have refused to receive correction: they have made their faces harder than a rock; they have refused to return.”
I need to get ready to take my husband and love of my life to the hospital for surgery. So, I’ll quit with that last verse since it’s obvious the people on this site have their minds made up.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ushldcallme and GrannyT - zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Hnngn, whah...? Somebody say somethin'?
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Moses gave the soldiers permission to keep the female children as part of the spoil of battle as bondmaids or to raise to be wives for their selves, or their sons."
GrannyT - Even if this doesn't point to pedophelia, it points easily to slavery and rape. Moses (maybe the greatest character in the Old Testament mythology, in my opinion) allowed his soldiers to treat women as objects to be owned. If these scriptures guide your morals, you might want to consider moving to a country where others believe along these lines of moraltiy - say, Afghanistan.
Once again, you have pointed out how cruel and inhuman your idea of God is.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
GrannyT - Yeah, sure. Inspiration probalby came in the form of a cask of wine emptied into their livers or some really nice opium.
Men wrote that Men were "inspired" by God. God did not write that. That's because something that does not exist obviously can't write anything.
Just because it's written down does not make it true. If it were so, Harry Potter would have saved the planet from the ruthless rule of Lord Voldemort.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."
Why does your God allow for such horrors? Why were we made so imperfect in the first place so as to "sin" and come short of the glory? Why? Because it's not true. It's nothing more than control through fear. Your vision is terrifying. It must be nerve racking to be you.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
In any case, GrannyT, I do hope that your husband makes a full and complication-free recovery from his surgery.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 17, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey you guys and gals...get a (bible study)room!
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 10:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Lazarus was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom"
"There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, full of sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And he called out, `Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.' But Abraham said, `Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.' And he said, `Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' But Abraham said, `They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, `No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' He said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'" (Luke 16:19-31)
"Lord, increase my hunger for you and for your way of happiness. Make me rich in the things of heaven and give me a generous heart that I may freely share with others the treasure you have given to me."
http://www.rc.net/wcc/readings/luke16...
God loves you !!!!!!!!
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
BeaHappi - You funny! Me laughing.
Still laughing...
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ushldcallme - You post mythology involving one man snuggled in the bossom of another, and you oppose gay marriage?
Talk about mixed signals.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society - That was just one of Tom's many memorable statements. I just happened to be listneing to his show when he said that - the day after Labor day, I think.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ushldcallme - That story also seems to involve necrophelia. You guys are way too twisted for me.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ushldcallme - Are you sure that wasn't a Japanese adult manga story? They go for some pretty crazy stuff. Gay necrophelia comics would not be so surprising there.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society - You are indeed a unique lady. I wish more were like you.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Then he said to all, "If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. What profit is there for one to gain the whole world yet lose or forfeit himself? Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. Truly I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:23-26)
God loves you !!!!!!!!
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am thankful for all those who keep reading the Words of God through my responses. God abundantly reward your faithfulness in reading !!!!!!!!
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"God loves you !!!!!!!!"
ushldcallme - No, I don't. I don't even know you.
"I am thankful for all those who keep reading the Words of God through my responses. God abundantly reward your faithfulness in reading !!!!!!!!"
Once again, stop putting words into my mouth. If anyone wants to read, then feel free, but I'm not giving you a red cent.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society - I wish I were back in college. Sounds like my kind of fun. Those days are gone, though.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"But to you who hear I say, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. To the person who strikes you on one cheek, offer the other one as well, and from the person who takes your cloak, do not withhold even your tunic. Give to everyone who asks of you, and from the one who takes what is yours do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. For if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do the same. If you lend money to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit (is) that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, and get back the same amount. But rather, love your enemies and do good to them, and lend expecting nothing back; then your reward will be great and you will be children of the Most High, for he himself is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked. Be merciful, just as (also) your Father is merciful. (Luke 6:27-36)
God bless you abundantly !!!!!!!!
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way, ushldcallme, I'm only reading your last lines, in case you didn't figure that out. The rest is too boring. I see quotation marks, I just skip before I fall into a coma. I doubt anyone else is actually reading them. But you go ahead and keep posting if it makes you feel impotent, I mean, important.
I bless you abundantly my child !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by venturapagan on September 17, 2008 at 2:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen, Freethought! Okay, everyone down from the pulpit! Ppl from all religions have marriages, so why are we all to conform to the Christian ideal of marriage? And from my obvious religious stand point (see nic), I don't want anyone telling me whether my marriage is valid in their eyes, either, plus I wouldn't care what they thought. I don't tell anyone how to practice their faith. As long as ppl are happy, WHO CARES, and keep your minds (and religion) out of other ppls bedrooms.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
(Numbers 6:24-27)
The LORD bless you and keep you! The LORD let his face shine upon you, and be gracious to you!
The LORD look upon you kindly and give you peace!
Posted by del on September 17, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hmmm...
History does not record anywhere at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a God superior to themselves. Most Gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.
God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent-it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks, please. Cash and in small bills.
The most preposterous notion that H. Sapiens has ever dreamed up is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes, wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in all of history.
L.L.
Posted by Why on September 17, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ushldcallme:
pretty sad when your only rebutles are quotes from the bible. Develop an opinion of your own. don't just regurgitate what you read and what you were taught. if your only argument to gay marriage is religion it's not a very good one.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why - Why, I must apologize to you, Why (I'm getting confused typing this). I didn't take the time to read your entire post (quite a few up), and I rebutted when I had no reason to. Please forgive me. I agree with all you have said thus far.
Posted by Why on September 17, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
frethought:
it's cool I figured as much. It was a bit confusion since i jumped around from 1st person to 2nd so on and so forth. I just don't understand who these people and deny someone happyness. It's just pure ignorance.
Posted by jeffinventura on September 17, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No one has the right to impose their personal religious beliefs into our laws.
The government institution is free from any religious affiliations and it needs to remain that way.
GOD BLESS!
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Absolutely Why.
And you, too, Jeff.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 17, 2008 at 6:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Grace, mercy, and peace will be with us from God the Father and from Jesus Christ the Father's Son in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth just as we were commanded by the Father. But now, Lady, I ask you, not as though I were writing a new commandment but the one we have had from the beginning: let us love one another. For this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, as you heard from the beginning, in which you should walk. Many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh; such is the deceitful one and the antichrist. Look to yourselves that you do not lose what we worked for but may receive a full recompense. Anyone who is so "progressive" as not to remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God; whoever remains in the teaching has the Father and the Son. (2 John 3-9)
Posted by OFD_Wife on September 17, 2008 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
High society, Elpapi and Junior...where are you? Your act of contrition is,
Oh my star, I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee, and I detest all my
opinions because they offend the feeble minded, but most of all because they offend
Thee, my star, Who art all-good and deserving of all my love. I firmly
resolve, with the help of the moderator, to have no opinion and to avoid the near
occasions of posting.
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 8:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I missed a lot of the comments that were posted earlier because I was doing my own Bible search and working on posting some of the Scripture references that God had brought to my mind when “debating” other bloggers. I’m sorry I didn’t answer the questions sooner; I missed reading them when I finally finished posting my replies to other comments. I’ll try to do my best to answer the ones I’m remembering in separate postings when they require longer answers.
I use the Authorized King James Version of the Bible for several reasons. I’ll list some of them.
1. Although, some of the other Greek text were deemed to be “older” that doesn’t necessarily make them better. According to what I’ve read from numerous sites, the Textus Receptus, often called the received text, was the Greek version used for translating the AKJV. The Textus Receptus originated in Antioch. According to the Bible “the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch” (Acts 11:26) leading me to trust them more than some of the other Greek text that originated in other places.
2. The AKJV is supposed to be written on a lower grade level than some of the other versions; making it easier to understand once people learn the “old English” and get used to reading thee and thou.
3. It is not bound by copyright laws so I can quote it all I want without having to worry about copyright violations.
4. The AKJV is among a very few versions that actually tells you to study it. I don’t think God would have wanted that eliminated; but I’m sure Satan would. Since so many of the other versions eliminate it; I’ll quote it here so you can see what they’re omitting: 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” Many of the other versions also omit many of the verses dealing with things like the virgin birth and redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ.
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 8:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
On the question regarding why God would permit slavery: I honestly don’t know why. There are several things that the Bible says that I don’t understand or don’t agree with. An evangelist once preached a message in our church about that subject. He said when he comes to those times that he disagrees with God; he has to remind himself, “He’s God and I’m man – He’s right and I’m wrong.”
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 8:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I honestly do not have any hatred in my heart for anyone that believes differently than I do. As I stated previously, I am a firm believer that God created each of us with the free will to make our own choices about our eternity. I’ve heard that there are a lot of churches that no longer preach the whole Bible; because some of the pastors are more worried about being politically correct than biblically correct. I guess I was naïve enough to believe that some people might honestly care what the Bible says. As you may have noticed; Scripture references were not my only concern about homosexual relationships.
I don’t know why homosexuals are at higher risks than other groups for AIDS; but according to statistics – they are. I have a genuine love for fellow humans and really do want them to be aware of the risks – Scriptural, medical, and historical- before making their decisions. A few months ago I read an article about what happened after the only other recorded legalization of homosexual marriage in ancient history. I’ll see if I can find that link for others that may be interested.
Posted by GrannyT on September 17, 2008 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I did some searching and was able to find that article again and will try to post the link for anyone curious enough to read it. If the link doesn’t work; I’ll post the title later so you can Google it. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.ph...
There are some here that either don’t believe in God at all or don’t believe a loving God would punish sinners by sending them to hell. But, what if the Bible is true and there really is a God that punishes unrepentant sinners by sentencing them to an eternity in hell fire? Either way, I have nothing to worry about; and would feel better if others didn’t either. The real question is - are you really willing to take the risks?
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"But, what if the Bible is true and there really is a God that punishes unrepentant sinners by sentencing them to an eternity in hell fire?"
GrannyT - Again, you have underscored what's inherently wrong with the Christian doctrine (not the Jewish doctrine, as they don't subscribe to hell). It's fear. You say better safe than sorry. However, you have just committed all control of your life to the church - the most useless, yet very powerful, set of organizations on earth. Fear of something eternal is a huge reason why you "serve the lord", and is the only reason for many. Fear is the most powerful emotion in the human condition (greed comes second, followed by love). I find it sad that you willingly allow yourself to be forcefed ideas that only seek to keep you comng back, emptying your pocket book, and obey so unconditionally.
To each his or her own, I suppose.
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"On the question regarding why God would permit slavery: I honestly don’t know why. There are several things that the Bible says that I don’t understand or don’t agree with. An evangelist once preached a message in our church about that subject. He said when he comes to those times that he disagrees with God; he has to remind himself, “He’s God and I’m man – He’s right and I’m wrong.”"
GrannyT - Since you don't understand, I'll fill you in. Slavery was allowed by "God", because that ideology served the Hebrews at the time (and other civilizations, as well). Men wrote that text. I know you cannot believe it, but they were not influenced by any supreme being - only other men and themselves. Much of it was self-serving. It doesn't make sense today, because we are better people overall now than we were three or four millenia ago. We realize how wrong slavery is. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now. To say, "God allowed it, so it was okay" is just irresponsible and opens opportunities for people today to continue to commit atrocities "in the name of God." It's ashame you can't see this completely simple and obvious truth.
I think you are probably a very kind woman whose heart is in the right place. That doesn't matter, however, when you blindly accept such horrendous crimes as acceptable just because "God allowed it".
Posted by freethought on September 17, 2008 at 10:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GrannyT - On the statitics of homosexuals and HIV, there's no argument. Statistics are fact and can rarely be contradicted, so I have to agree with you there (I bound myself to truth even if it proves my original position wrong).
Posted by Why on September 18, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
grannyt:
What if it's not true? What if it's all lies made up by man? What if you live your life following rules that were made by power hungry man? what if the religion you follow that was spread in the name if jesus actually killed millions of people? what if? what if? what if...?
Posted by BeaHappi on September 18, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Heck, by the time people quit posting on this story we'll have an on-line version of the entire bible.
Posted by GrannyT on September 18, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
freethought,
First, I’d like to say thank you for being willing to have a civil discussion and realizing I really mean no harm and am trying my best to do what I believe is right.
I’m not just living the “better safe than sorry” type of life. I am living a joyous life trusting I’m not living it alone. God helps me live day by day. I guess there are a lot of people out there that really do let the church “control” their lives by following their leaders like a bunch of blind sheep. I’ve never been one of those people. I attend an Independent Baptist Church that has a sign posted saying “Christ is head of this church” and we honestly try our best to follow the teachings of the Bible. Our pastor has said numerous times that if we ever hear him preach something that contradicts the Bible to please come to him and show him where he’s wrong. He encourages us to do like the people in Berea in Bible times; “…they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” Acts 17:10-11 (KJV) Our church is totally self-funded with no one but God and our own congregation paying the bills and we actually have business meetings where we discuss even the simplest things. It is my job to type up the financial reports in which every penny is accounted for. We believe in personal responsibility and don’t just give handouts to people that refuse to at least try to support themselves.
Self sufficiency is Scriptural and my mother made a point to quote that verse very often when I was growing up. I saw how well it works and decided to pass it on to my own children and grandchildren. 2 Thessalonians 3:10 (KJV) “For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.” Notice the verse says “would not” rather than “could not.” There is a big difference in those words. I believe we should help those that cannot work for reasons such as health issues. I do not believe it is the government’s job to support those that can’t support themselves. That is their family’s and church’s job. Our government made a huge mistake in taking over that job. Because, too many people have become addicted to what they think are their entitlements. I agree with Gov. Huckabee that the best way to correct that problem is to provide decent education and training to those that have become addicted to help them become part of the tax payers rather than remaining tax receivers. I have known many people that have made that transition and are now part of the middle and/or upper class and proud of their accomplishments. (As they should be)
Posted by GrannyT on September 18, 2008 at 9 a.m. (Suggest removal)
freethought,
On the issue of slavery; I am very thankful that America freed the slaves and wish we could do our best to help those in other countries. I am a firm believer that both men and women should be paid a fair days wage for a fair days work. I don't believe it is fair to pay lazy bums that refuse to do their jobs the same as someone working their tail off. I think unions are getting a bad name because they work harder protecting the jobs of the negligent than they do at protecting the jobs and wages of the faithful. That was recently proven at the contracts last year with the automakers. The thought of them trying to push open voting rather than closed ballots is down right scary; because then if you voted against certain things or union reps it might come back to bite you later.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 18, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one child such as this in my name receives me. "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Woe to the world because of things that cause sin! Such things must come, but woe to the one through whom they come! If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna. "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven always look upon the face of my heavenly Father. (Matthew 18:1-10)
Posted by freethought on September 18, 2008 at 7:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
GrannyT - Well thought-out comments - You seem like a sweet person. It's just the quoting scriptures part that make you sound a bit preacher-like. Other than that, I find your thoughts on the subject quite deep.
rcamacho - I agree with the biology part. Gays are not normal. They are mutations, actually. As a biologist, you should know what that means. It is not an insult, but an explanation. For those who do not understand, a mutation is simply a trait a living entity is born with that differs from the norm. In the case of gays, their brains are wired to be attracted to the same sex. Sometimes mutations take and become the norm, but it will never happen with gays since they cannot procreate. Almost every species of mammal has produced a small population of homosexuals, so it's not just us.
ushldcallme - Not sure what you said. I skipped over it. Seversal posts ago, I (and probably others) got tired of simply reading a cut and paste job with absolutely no input. At least GrannyT attempts to interpret and explain what she copied and pasted. Your posts are worthless.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 18, 2008 at 10:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect. (Romans 12:2)
Posted by coastalslinger on September 19, 2008 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
For all those who quote from the Bible.....man wrote the Bible, who's to say they didn't change things to meet their own agenda? There are MANY versions, so who's to say any of them are right?
When you meet someone, for the first time, do you say "Hi, I'm (insert name), what do you do in your bedroom? So God knows how many of "those people" you have actually shook hands with. I can feel you shuddering now.
Quit trying to shove your beliefs down everyones throat.
What are you all going to do when they absolutely find it's a gene that makes someone homosexual? Didn't God create everything? Will they then be accepted by you? Of course not...you'll say it's a mutant gene, and therefore not deserving to exist.
I find the most Bible thumping (not all Christians) people are the most judgemental, and mean people I have ever met.
Posted by madmax on September 19, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They'll have been wasting their entire lives trying to conform to the laws of their non-existent deity, only to no longer exist themselves. So in a sense, they'll have joined god :)
That is to say, your consciousness will cease to be, and you'll be worm food/ashes, providing some sort of sustenance for the plants and insects. Have fun trying to spread dominionism until then!
Posted by ushldcallme on September 19, 2008 at 6:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
John 15:18-27
"If the world hates you, realize that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, the world would love its own; but because you do not belong to the world, and I have chosen you out of the world, the world hates you. Remember the word I spoke to you, 'No slave is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know the one who sent me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me also hates my Father. If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did, they would not have sin; but as it is, they have seen and hated both me and my Father. But in order that the word written in their law might be fulfilled, 'They hated me without cause.' "When the Advocate comes whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth that proceeds from the Father, he will testify to me. And you also testify, because you have been with me from the beginning."
Posted by GrannyT on September 19, 2008 at 8:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coastalslinger,
and anyone else that thinks I'm nuts for believing the Bible. If it were really "written" by man; how can you explain some of the things that they "knew" so long ago - many of which didn't happen to many years later?
Ecclesiastes 1:7 describes our "water cycle". "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." Leviticus 17:11 states "For the life of the flesh is in the blood:" Leviticus 15:13 helps prevent spreading germs "wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean." Could patients be healed faster if doctors, nurses, friends, and family members would practice Proverbs 17:22? "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." Isaiah 40:22 might be why Columbus determined the earth is round. "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:" More verses describing our solar system are Job 26:7 "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." and Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;"(planets?)
My mom said that when she was a little girl she never understood the part in Revelation where people from all over the world could see something until AFTER television and satellites were invented. Revelation 11:9 “And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.”
Just this summer, I read something about apple cider vinegar being good for you, but bad for teeth enamel. Proverbs 10:26 “As vinegar to the teeth, and as smoke to the eyes, so is the sluggard to them that send him.”
I believe God created our universe and individual species of life as described in Genesis. Maybe someday scientists will consult the "manual" God provided to efficiently operate His creation, and accept Hebrews 11:3, "Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
Posted by coastalslinger on September 19, 2008 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Granny....never once did I say I thought anyone was nuts for believing in the Bible. What I said was....it is written by man. How do any of us know what is true, and what isn't? Who's to say that the things said to be against God's will, aren't in fact against just the will of the people who wrote it. Making up many things as they go along.
My gripe is against the mean spirited people who use God as a striking force. I was raised going to church, and the God I was introduced to wasn't a mean God that everyone should fear, but a God who accepted us as we are.
If He created all things on earth, then He also created homosexuals, as they have been around since humans have been recorded in a civilization. If, though I don't believe it's true, God does not condone homosexuality....He, and only He, will deal with it. Who are any of us to say it's wrong?
From all I've seen, the supposed GREAT men who preached on T.V., or the ones who crave publicity thumping their bibles, are some of the worst sinners around. And, as we've all seen....each religion interprets the Bible to whatever way THEY can make it fit into their beliefs. I'm not impressed.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 19, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Rom 13:8-10
Brothers and sisters:
Owe nothing to anyone, except to love one another;
for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery; you shall not kill; you shall not steal; you shall not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no evil to the neighbor;
hence, love is the fulfillment of the law.
1 John 4:16
We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him.
Posted by coastalslinger on September 19, 2008 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ushldcallme....very nicely quoted.
Posted by ushldcallme on September 19, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Marriage is a basic human and social institution. Though it is regulated by civil laws and church laws, it did not originate from either the church or state, but from God. Therefore, neither church nor state can alter the basic meaning and structure of marriage.
Marriage, whose nature and purposes are established by God, can only be the union of a man and a woman and must remain such in law. In a manner unlike any other relationship, marriage makes a unique and irreplaceable contribution to the common good of society, especially through the procreation and education of children.
The union of husband and wife becomes, over a lifetime, a great good for themselves, their family, communities, and society. Marriage is a gift to be cherished and protected.
Posted by coastalslinger on September 19, 2008 at 10:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Actually...didn't God create a union of Adam and Eve? The word marriage was never in the equasion. We made up that word later. So, since this is true....why not let gays get married, and we call our marriages...... a union?
Posted by THX1138 on September 19, 2008 at 11:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Perhaps a fair compromise would be to reserve the title of marriage for those that are religious. And allow same-sex couples to be together with another title for their union.
Essentially this allows folks to choose their path, [which ironically is how God intended]. We're on this planet for a short time, why not allow couples to be happy together. If they're not causing physical harm to anyone else, Live & let Live...
Sadly there are zealots that don't realize the negative light they produce when using threats, fear & condemnation - I'd bet God didn't intend the word to be spread in such a manner.
The laws imposed in this country should be based on common sense and safety and not rooted in any one religion. People should not be forced to follow the beliefs of any one religion.
Posted by coastalslinger on September 19, 2008 at 11:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Problem is TMX...there are many homosexuals who are religious.
I just don't understand why people put such emphasis on a word. Two people who love each other should be able to be legally seen, and treated as a couple, no matter the word.
Since when did religion decide what the word "marriage" means?
Again we fail to seperate church and state as we go down this slippery slope.
Posted by srcheek on September 20, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)
When I got married, it had absolutely NOT ONE THING to do with "god". It had everything to do with wanting to celebrate our love and future together as husband and wife. If we were getting married for god, then we would have done so in a church with all the religious hoopla that goes with that. As it is, we were married at a beautiful ranch in Camarillo surrounded by our friends and family. It would never cross our minds to deny anyone else that same joy and celebration of forever based on their gender or race. I can't imagine why 2 people wanting to get married who happen to be the same gender is anyone else's business.
Posted by THX1138 on September 20, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Coast: very true..
This country is a melting-pot of beliefs and ethnicities and the only way to make most happy/content is through compromise. Unfortunately compromise may not be the answer religious folks want to hear.
Posted by freethought on September 21, 2008 at 4:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Marriage is a basic human and social institution. Though it is regulated by civil laws and church laws, it did not originate from either the church or state, but from God. Therefore, neither church nor state can alter the basic meaning and structure of marriage."
ushldcallme - It is refreshing to see that you're finally doing something other than cutting and pasting mythological scripture. Okay, so onto my comment:
Where's your proof? Is it that silly book you've been working from? Maybe the Goddess Hera created it. That was one of her responsibilities. As you're citing myth, it's just as viable that the Greeks (before being forced to accept Christianity) had it right instead of the Christians.
Article discussions on this site are to support community debates of issues related to our stories and editorials.
Discussions should not stray from the subject of the story or editorial.
We do not allow the following:
- Posts that degrade others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or disability.
- Disparaging remarks, abusive language or obscene comments.
- Threats, whether obvious or veiled.
We reserve the right to delete threads and/or ban users for these or other reasons we deem necessary.
Opinions are the sole responsibility of the person posting them. You agree not to post comments that are off topic, defamatory, obscene, abusive, threatening or an invasion of privacy. Violators may be banned. Click here for our full user agreement.
There are 192 comments to this article.
Comments are found beneath the Yahoo! ad below.