Home › National
Parties may see immigration as no-win
Local advocates say they're hearing little at conventions
Download this story as a podcast!
ELECTIONS '09
Check out our one stop for all the information and news you need to be ready for to cast your vote.
Election Central »
Elections stories »
STORY TOOLS 
More from NationalThey journeyed 24 hours from Oxnard to Denver and then 24 hours back, driving through the night in three large vans. They demonstrated, chatted up delegates and politicked for change.
But the fight for immigration reform that brought 47 immigrants and advocates from Oxnard to the Democratic National Convention didn't generate more than a heartbeat or two of attention from podium speakers, including presidential nominee Barack Obama.
Political analysts say they'll be surprised if Republicans in St. Paul this week spend any more time talking about an issue guaranteed to divide voters.
"I think for political reasons, they really don't want to talk about it," said Alicia Flores, the Oxnard reform advocate who helped organize the trip to Denver and this week has her television tuned to the Republican National Convention. "My message to them is that we're here. And we also vote."
Pundits speculate that both parties have pegged immigration as a no-win issue, at least at national conventions where a message tailored to one group can disenfranchise the next. No matter what they say or what side they take, they run the risk of losing potential votes.
"Immigration will be the elephant in the room for the next two months and maybe the next few years," said Tom Hogen-Esch, an associate professor of political science at CSU Northridge.
It was different when millions of immigrants marched in cities across the nation, demanding amnesty and chanting "Si se puede." If the convention had been held in 2005, immigration would have been one of the top three issues, Hogen-Esch said.
Focus is elsewhere
But gas prices have rocketed. The housing market crashed. Voters now are focused on the economy, a fractured healthcare system and the Iraq war.
Immigration remains prominent, but it's been pushed far enough back that candidates believe they can choose not to focus on it from the convention podium.
"There's only so much oxygen in the room," Hogen-Esch said. "There's only so many narratives that can be sustained in any conversation."
Immigration platforms for Obama's and John McCain's campaigns touch on some of the same points, including securing the borders, meeting labor needs by providing more workers and creating ways that illegal immigrants can apply for legal status.
An unspoken agreement
Mark Krikorian, executive director for the Center for Immigration Studies that advocates for more enforcement against illegal immigrants, said the stances are similar enough that there's an unspoken agreement between the parties not to push the issue.
He thinks Democrats worry about alienating independent swing voters. McCain doesn't want to scare away Republicans ardently opposed to immigration reform.
That's why the candidate likely won't say much more about immigration in his convention speech Thursday than to acknowledge it's an issue, Krikorian said.
"He'll say something in his speech that they're all God's children, but we need to have border control first," he said. "If he says more than two or three sentences about it, I'll be surprised."
'It's all about jobs'
The issue may not be pushed aside for long. Some pundits predict the push for immigration reform will emerge after the election, no matter which candidate wins. The economy is the caveat, said Frank D. Bean, director of the Center for Research on Immigration at UC Irvine.
"It's all about jobs," he said. "It's hard to build a case for more immigration and better opportunities for legalization when people don't have jobs. ... It may be dead in the water until things improve."
Flores, executive director for the Hermandad Mexicana Transnacional center and advocacy group in Oxnard, came to Denver ready to vote for Obama if he pledged at the convention to fight for legalization for the nation's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants. That didn't happen, and now she wants to hear McCain's message and believes many other Latino voters are listening, too.
"They're still undecided," she said.
Posted by lrgvanman on September 3, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you enter a game and don't play by the rules, you eventually get thrown out, right? What is so much different about real life? Illegal still means illegal; NOT LEGAL! Get the rocks outta your heads! Something else that amazes me are the ones who demand rights for the lawbreakers. They need to get a life.
Posted by bbofvta on September 3, 2008 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"My message to them is that we're here. And we also vote."
Actually, the illegals do not vote, nor can they. The ones who claim to vote only to support the plight of the illegals are wasting their time and effort. There are too many that are too tired of the crap that comes with the illegal issues.
Rarely does an issue cause so many to become upset. The day of the free pass at the border is fast coming to an end.
Posted by cameronincam on September 3, 2008 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Those vans should have been rerouted straight to mexico...
bbofvta is right.... the free ride is coming to an end.
Posted by keepin_it_real on September 3, 2008 at 7:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is unbelievable to me how anyone, not just mexicans can even think of "breaking in" illegaly to our country and then demanding their rights. NO other country puts up with that, so why should we? We need strick reform, but not the type of reform to make them legal. They need to go home.
I say lets get in there and fine the heck out of the employers who hire these illegals. Use our prisoners with strick oversight to work in our fields. This has to stop. They don't want to come here and live like the rest of us, they want to live their way and wave their flags and so on. Stop this now. No work? Maybe they will stay home.
Posted by tweetybyrdrt on September 3, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My great grandparents were immigrants, my neighbors are immigrants, many of my coworkers are immigrants, tens of thousands of those I served my 20 years in the military with were immigrants. NONE OF THEM ARE ILLEGAL. If you didn't get here legally then go home, the first step to becoming a part of our great Nation is to follow our laws.
Posted by Rocket81 on September 3, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
keepin_it_real, Right on. We need to make sure we vote out the ones who don't support the laws.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
So EASY to blame those that don't/can't speak up for themselves. First off, I agree that they are here illegally. I don't agree that they should get free benefits that they in no way pay for themselves. I don't agree that they are the sole reason for our state's budget problems (that's a cop out). I don't agree that "sending them back" is a feasible option. They will leave if there are no jobs for them, simple as that. The attacks you post here should not be directly targeted at illegals, but should instead be directed towards the LEGAL citizens that hire them. If you take away the jobs, they will leave, they are not here to take your white collar job, they're here to do any other skilled task that will pay them the minimum to get by. True, this needs to work in tandem with their home country improving their economic situation and creating more jobs in their home countries. Even without that home country support, they will return if there are no jobs for them in the U.S. Just like they create their own market in jobs here to make money (ice cream vendors, domestic help, construction, etc.), they will be forced to do the same back in their home country. So long as the opportunity is not present in the U.S., there is no reason for them to stay here.
As for free services, the main drain on the U.S. economy is not solely the illegal immigration, but the many LEGAL citizens that CHOOSE to stay on welfare and remain unemployed because their blue collar job got shipped to India (or other low cost labor countries). Blame your President for THAT.
To lash out directly at "illegal immigrants" for searching out and working the lowly skilled/unskilled jobs that will pay them just enough to get by is absurd. YES, there are some "bad apples" in every bunch, so yes, there are career criminals among the illegal immigrant ranks, but the propensity of those to exist is the same as within the LEGAL citizen population, if not less. THOSE are the criminals that SHOULD be sent back and we should target THEM, I agree with THAT.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 7:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Techuser:
Some illegal immigrants don't come over via "coyote". They simply get step off a plane at LAX and over stay their visa time-limit. How can you police that?
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"candidates believe they can choose not to focus on it from the convention podium."
thats because the two mainstream candidates are too busy pandering for votes. neither one of these wankers is going to do a darn thing about the immigration problem. they are both too busy making money from the cheap labor that comes along with it.
Posted by del on September 3, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We are not the only ones with the problems. The Spanish have a different take on things. Other nations are also struggling with immigration (see related articles) for those willing to think outside their little box.
This may not be the best way to handle the situation, but it is "a" way.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 8:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
caddieman:
The illegals are whoever these anti-illegal immigrant posters say they are, don't you know that they can tell you're illegal just by looking at you? (being sarcastic of course) Also, they deem all people that are decedants of illegal immigrants to be part of the problem, so that includes generations upon generations of the Irish, Polish, Chines, Vietnamese, Italian, Mexican, Central American, South American, Spanish, Scottish, British (and so on) that overstayed their visa time limits and simply fell through the cracks and eventually became naturalized. If THAT ever happened somewhere along your geneology, YOUR AN ILLEGAL and should GO HOME!!! Now THAT'S a lot of people! (ridiculous argument isn't it?)
Posted by my_2cents on September 3, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"The Mexican government must not have an office the issues passports"
The Mexican Government does issue passports but it's not as easy as it is here to get one, you have to have land, a good job, and money to get a passport and even then you might still not get one. I know that more than 50% of illegal immigrants are hispanics (not all from Mexico) but then again we also have all those other illegals that come into our country too....(ie. China, Thailand, Philippines, Africa and so on )why don't they get a passport to enter this country too...
"Use our prisoners with strick oversight to work in our fields"
HECK NO!!! they are in prison for a reason and to have them out and about even with strick supervision you know that some are gonna escape!! I would love to see more AMERICANS working out in the sun picking up the crops that we enjoy at meal time!
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
you people who pander to the illegals makes me sick. honestly, if you can't see how much money is being wasted on illegals, you don't deserve to be a citizen. consider that 30% of federal prison inmates in california alone are illegals. and you wonder why the prisons are overpopulated?
illegals come from all countries. most of them are here to work, and send money home to the families they bailed on back home. however, this means they work too many jobs to put food on the table at home. yet they continually breed like they are living in their third world country, and have to keep breeding to keep their population up. however, these kids dont get supervised by anyone as they grow up. a lot of these kids turn to gangs for guidance, acceptance, and protection.
I could go on and on, but I have a feeling most of you stopped reading after my first sentence and will come back with some argument about who will pick my veggies and wash my car or something stupid like that.
Posted by doorman on September 3, 2008 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My two cents to 2cents. While I agree with almost all, OK some of what you say it's strict.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
FEDUP: "Stupid like that" is your statistic regarding the prison population. 30% are latino..not illegal. 11% of them are illegal. 11% is HARDLY what is pushing the prison system to the point of bursting.
In addition, "their population"? What is that? Those born here are legal, according to the laws set by YOUR LEADERSHIP years ago.
Nice try, but gangs are low income problem, not soley an illegal immigration problem. Tell me how the Crips and Bloods in Compton and Watts are as a result of illegal immigration. Like I said, for the simple-minded, it's easier to blame illegal immigration for every problem in this country. Makes you feel better.
Posted by handyhood on September 3, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
babyzdaddy- I know I'm going to regret this and that it will some how come back on me, but I AGREE WITH YOU. OK, I said it.
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
caddieman805 - I was trying to comprehend what you wrote, and had a tough time translating the gibberish. a couple of things you said.
"You talk about afford to feed illigals what about the legal bumbs on the streets, and the legal familys on welfare that refuse to work"
I think you made my point about the politicians. we have thousands upon thousands of homeless veterans on the streets today. yet a woman from Juarez can sneak across the border at 8 months pregnant, and have her child in OUR hospitals, on OUR dime, and then claim she can't be deported because she has an american citizen child? how effed up is that?
if our politicians would step up and grow some nads, they would make the welfare collecting losers who keep popping out more babies work in the fields.
and for the record. I wash my own car, mow my own lawn, and clean my own house. I even pick my own fruits and veggies on occasion.
Posted by surfwidow on September 3, 2008 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"We're here and we Vote".. B.S.!! You dont vote and we're being invaded by Mexico. Im tired of paying 700.00 a month for my familys health insurance while non citizens get theirs for free. Im tired of them bettering themselves on the backs of American Tax Paying Citizens! And Im sick to death with their crap of taking back California!! Everyone look up La Raza and MEcHA and tell me that those two organizations arent the two MOST racist hate groups EVER. It makes the KKK look like teddy bears. Or go to WWW.MEXIKA.ORG and you decide for yourself how these people feel about us. Time to get them OUT!!!!!
Posted by worldfxr on September 3, 2008 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We the people need to take control of this. WE need to Vote out any and all elected officials that do not enforce the current laws. We need to prosecute mayor's that sponsor and support illegal immigration. This is illegal. Time is of the essense. Many parts of So. Cal. are already an extension of the 3rd world country of Mexico. If we do not make some serious changes, this State and nation will continue to an ultimate demise. Many parents that I know have commented that there children that are of working ages, (teens,etc.) cannot get a job because illegal aliens have taken those jobs. Also, once they dominate a sector that use to support high school and college kids, we cannot get back in. Many entry level jobs that have been taken over by illegal immigrants now only speak spanish. The managers of some of these business speak spanish and only hire friends, relatives and spanish speaking immigrants. Entire industries have lost ground to extremely low paying illegal immigrants. Many siphoning on all the free services while taking the entry level jobs away form Americans. America, Wake UP, we are a dying nation. Snap out of it! GET Involved! Secure the border first and foremost!
Posted by Abacrombee1 on September 3, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I want to address the statement "and we also vote". Well if you do, you should be behind bars. One of the RIGHTS of being a CITIZEN of this Great Nation is the Right to Vote unless you're a convicted felon. And if you vote ILLEGALLY it is apparent that there is No Law you won't break to get what you want. If there was no other reason to deport you this SHOULD be #1. First you have no right to be here, you're Illegal. Second you have no RIGHTS once you get here no matter what you think and third voting ILLEGALLY shows that you have a complete disreguard for the Laws for this Nation and should NEVER be considered for Citizenship under any circumstances.
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 9:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"30% is a small number"
um, no it is not. 30% is a large number. 3% would be a small number. and I was wrong about the stats for california prisons. it is actually federal prisons across the country that are 30% illegals. not all hispanic by any means. there are a lot of eastern european, asian and other ethnicities who make up part of that 30%.
bloods and crips are two gangs who were actually pushed out of the LA area by hispanic gangs in the late 80's and early 90's. they spread their drug trade all across the country. much like MS-13 is doing today. expect MS-13 is an international gang now.
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
show me the numbers caddieman. and actually, I am done with this. I do have to get to work. millions of illegals are depending on me....
Posted by my_2cents on September 3, 2008 at 9:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"THERE IS MORE LEGAL PEOPLE RECIEVING BENEFITS THEN THE ILLIGALS"
this is so true caddieman805 alot of you are saying that the illegals are getting welfare, get your facts straight if you are not a citizen or a legal resident you CANNOT get welfare!!!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All your stating is rhetoric. Illegals are not able to collect welfare (you MUST be a citizen to collect that). Doesn't that mean that LEGAL CITIZENS are to blame for the drain on welfare? Yes. Paying $700 for health care for your family is the premium that is increased by the insurance companies. Those premiums rise because idiots like to use emergency services and visit their primary doctors for simply colds and flus. Doctors are abusing of the system and filing fraudulent claims on behalf of the insured. The illegal immigrants using all the ER services line is CRAP. YOU CAN'T TELL WHO'S LEGAL AND WHO'S NOT. A legal citizen with no insurance can just as easily lie about their name and get ER services just like illegals. The only difference is that illegals don't use the ER as freely as the legal citizens out of fear of getting deported. The ER is jammed full of half-wits that can't figure out that little Timmy has a COLD...it's a virus that's going around....give him tylenol if he has a fever and let him rest. It's not very difficult to understand. The ER is also jammed full of LEGAL CITIZENS using it to feed their prescription drug habit (also raising our insurance premiums).
Again, I realize that for those that like to regurgitate rhetoric that they hear in the media or from politicians trying to get elected on the illegal immigration talking point, it's much easier to just say "send them home" and blame all the nation's problems on illegal immigration than to use your brain to think things through. Yes, they are here. Yes, they work low paying jobs. Yes, if you come down on the employers, the jobs will go away and they will go home.
Just sayin' is all. (TM)
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
FedUp: Last time I visited, Bloods and Crips are still in Compton and Watts....it's not an illegal immigration issue, it's a unemployment and poverty issue. Everyone knows that. Those are economic problems triggered by decisions made by your elected adminstration.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
caddieman: Most people think they can listen to the news or politicians and know everything.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
I don't think that anyone here said that illegals are the sole reason for the states budget issues but they are anywhere from 5 to 7 billion dollar drain on the California yearly budget (depending on what stats you believe).
Their is no question that they are a big issue.
Posted by fkdupnoodle on September 3, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Very good arguments goin on here. Immigration is a HUGE problem here but neither party will adress the issue. Government can be so sneaky people. Do you really think its convenient for the US to complitely wipe out all illegal immigrants? Don't you think that if they wanted to stop illegals from coming in they would have done it? I mean, look at all the damage we have done in Iraq. We have a powerful military system the strongest! All I'm saying is that the US needs its illegals here, and we need their bilingual children to help with certain 'foreign affair' jobs or what not. The goverment is too smart to get rid of illegals I can go on and on about how they need them. As far as our next commander in chief, no way they will touch this subject they have TOO many votes to loose.
Babyzdaddy- could not agree with you more.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
VC Sexplorer11:
Before you turn off your calculator, after taking out the spending related to the illegal immigrants that you're counting to benefit the state's budget, add back in the COST of "sending them back home". Then, please provide your net amount saved. This is how it's decided upon, if the initiative COSTS more than it's worth, it's not pursued. Think about it.
Just sayin' is all. (TM)
Posted by Franko on September 3, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Caddieman- Yes, you definitely need to learn to how to write. I also happen to agree with you that illegal immigrants aren't solely to blame for our financial mess. Illegal immigrants don't have the power to raise gas to 4.50/gallon. They also aren't to blame for the housing market collapse, for the millions of dollars spent on the Iraq War everyday or for the inflation we are currently facing...
Fedup, You also bring up some very valid points. The only problem I have is that our elected politicians are the ones who made up some of these ridiculous laws. We have the power to vote, enact new laws, but most of us are just sitting on the fence and pointing fingers.
The Mexican Government is getting worse every day. Killings, kidnappings, drug wars, it's happening every day in Mexico. Most Mexican celebrities either live in LA or Miami, not Mexico. The honest working Mexican is also willing to come to the US rather than to get caught up in the daily bloodbaths.....The max exodus of people out of Mexico or any other corrupt nation is going to continue until the US makes it unattractive or the employers that hire illegal immigrants start getting severely penalized....And I just don't see that happening.
Posted by fkdupnoodle on September 3, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society- LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!! My first laugh of the day thanks to you..
Posted by Franko on September 3, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
fkdupnoodle-Right On!
Posted by gramagracie on September 3, 2008 at 10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Keep to the issue.. Obama camp is already backsliding on an issue. This doesn't surprise me. If my memory serves me well, wasn't it McCain and Kennedy who wanted amnesty for the illegals? Only the future will tell, if Obama is elected, how many other issues will not be important. Now for my radical side, yes the land did belong to Mexico at one time, but apparently the portion that America didn't keep is so bad the Mexican citizens are flooding over here. Ask yourself "what should we do"...let's invade Mexico, make it our 51st and 52nd state and fix the country...this way everybody will be in America. Spoke to my gardner, he speaks english, he told me that Mexico will not allow their citizens to transfer any money to any bank in the United States, yet we allow them to send all their hard earn money to Mexico. Mexico is a corrupt country and their citizens know it. Guess what they have universal health care too!
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
All you that are not in favor or illegals must have forgotten what our four fathers stood for.
Posted by dottiie on September 3, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
woooo whooooo. daang so much hate and I haven't even given my own 2cents =]
I totally agree with caddieman and 2cents....
you seriously believe that if illegals had no more work they will leave?
I would love to see any non mexican out in the heat of the sun working their a$$ off in the fields/cutting grass and cleaning yards for the same pay. And when that does happen I bet you will also be out there marching along protesting just like they do, but don't count on support from us because that's what you wanted all along... right?
Posted by luv2sail on September 3, 2008 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Firstly, almost anyone can vote in this Country, don't kid yourself. The only state that checks to see if the voter is in fact a citizen is Arizona.
If the Government wanted to solve this problem, they would merely institute severe fines to anyone who does not check to see if the person is illeagal and has illeagals, that don't have fake ID, in their employ.
Say, 20k for the 1st and a subsequent 50k for each one there after.
Then people would take notice. If there are no jobs or gainful ways of employment, people would not flock here.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lets say all of us Mexican Americans leave back to our home land, what then will be your excusses of the over populated jails, blacks and whites who recieve goverment foodstamps? Who then will you blame?
I will always be proud of where I came from and thank God of where I am today. MY CHILDREN WILL WALK AROUND WITH THERE HEADS HIGH IN THE SKY WITH BOTH MEXICAN AND AMERICAN FLAGS.
Look at Arnold Swatznager. His parents where ILLIGAL. Where is he today? He cant even speak proper English. Does anyone say anthing about his proper way of speaking? NO!!!!! Because why, maybe because he made top box movies.
Posted by Split on September 3, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with BabyzDaddy_01
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with the comments that my_2cents said. "THERE IS MORE LEGAL PEOPLE RECIEVING BENEFITS THEN THE ILLEGALS". So true that is. Come on all you Illegal Dicendents. We need to continue to vote. If not today some day soon our vots will matter and we will see our grate nation rise again.
Posted by fkdupnoodle on September 3, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)
h2odog- right back at cha..
People make it seem like having illegal immigrants here is the worst/most important problem we are facing right now. I have to pretty much bend-over everytime I go pump gas- illegals have NOTHING to do with that. Most people in my block lost their homes and are now renting apartaments-illegals have NOTHING to do with that. I have lost friends/family thanks to the war-illegals have NOTHING to do with that. I'm doing a good job with my diet-illegals have EVERYTHING to do with that, they pick my veggies! Our future looks bright because most illegals bust their butts working so their kids go to college. Let's not be ignorant people, look at the big picture. Don't comment out of anger and if you're just plain racist then give up you're screwed because there is no way the US is getting rid of their hard working illegals.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here are a few thought I have on the issue.
Economically, we only NEED illegals to fill jobs in specific markets, such as agriculture. The compensation scale for low-level ag jobs makes it unlikely that many Americans would ever want to work them for the amount of phisical intensity it requires. Most other markets could easily find the labor willing to do the work.
Culturally, the southwest states were only part of Mexico for 22 years. I don't give that too much weight because I've known small businesses that have lasted longer.
Sendign them all home isn't necessarily feasible as it would cost way to much to do so. But, there's no reason we couldn't come up with a workable guest worker program that gave priority to workers who are already here and have willing employers. Those with criminal histories would automatically be rejected from the process.
Those who come and work should be required to pay for into a health care fund. As non-citizens, they would still not be eligible for welfare.
While I don't care for the idea of anchor babies, the amount of corruption in Mexico leads me to look at illegals almost as refugees. And so I do have some sympathy as to why people would do that. But I still don't approve. I'm not sure what the answer is to the anchor baby problem.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Many of you say that we are taking your jobs away. The truth is most jobs that we have are jobs in the field.
Is that the kind of jobs you want? I bet all of you who eat your fruits and vegtables never tell your kids the fruit was picked by a Mexican. All we want is a chance to support our familys. Besides of what you think most of us are hard working people who bust our behinds off. Yet all we hear is people like you who say go back to Mexico.
Get it, we are hear and hear to stay. Unless you take away the kids of jobs you would not do then we will never leave.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
And please accept my aplologies for the many spelling errors. I need more caffeine.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
coach: Most of the jobs held by illegal immigrants are in the service sector, not agriculture. I'm on your side, just looked it up and am clarifying it for you. From a different perspective, you could say that of all the manually intensive agriculture jobs in the U.S. illegal immigrants make up a great majority of the workers.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I will say that I agree that anyone who comes hear illegal and commit Felonys should get sent back.
I also agree that there should be a system for the hard working illegals who want to get citizenship.
I think many of you are missing the boat. Many of us who came hear illegal want to better our lives. Many parents have sent there kids to Colleges and because of that you see more and more with better paying jobs making of six figures.
We are not all hear trying to take your jobs or recieve health bennits. We just want to make better lives for you future and present children.
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND THOSE WHO MADE THE SACRAFISE "DEATH" WHO TRIED TO MAKE IT TO THIS BEAUTIFUL LAND AND DIED.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you BabyzDaddy_01 for your help. I should have frazed it different.
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
HOW ABOUT ALL THAT WHITE TRASH THAT YOU SEE OUT ON THE STREET ASKING FOR MONEY AND STEALING, WHY DONT YOU GUYS MAKE A BIG THING OUT OF THAT? I mean they are here legally and cant even hold a job those are the kind of people that make me sick. On the other hand with illegal immigrants the majority have jobs that none of would ever do.
And for all you people B!@#$%ng about all the tax money being used by illegals? Why dont you ask your worthless president GEORGE W. BUSH what he has done with all that money that has the country in so much debt?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Boy I will be willing to debate this subject all day if needed to express how I feel about this.
Now that I am hear thanks to my parents making that sacrafise coming to America I will make sure that my children will always be proud of this beautiful land.
Yet at the same time they never need to be ashamed of where they came from. My house will always have both Mexican and American Flaggs.
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society
what do you mean "asking for too much"?.
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 3, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We shouldn’t blame the poor illegals who came over here in violation to our laws. They were only trying to make a better life for themselves. We shouldn’t blame the illegal for stealing someone’s identity by stealing someone’s social security number and getting fake documentation because the politicians should have given them amnesty in the first place. We shouldn’t blame the illegal for taking a job here because, after all, no Americans wanted that job. And if for some reason that some American did want that job, well we can’t blame the illegal for taking it because it is the employer’s fault for not verifying that the social security card and driver’s licenses were fake. It is the EMPLOYER’S fault for not making sure the identification was real, it is the AMERICAN citizen’s fault for not wanting “those” jobs, it is the POLITICIAN’S fault for not making the laws right…
BTW, if illegals didn’t get housing, healthcare, welfare and other benefits from the state, then why did the entire illegal community riot when prop 187 was passed. After all, the only thing 187 was going to deny them was services that “they don’t get”, right? Don’t kid yourself into thinking that illegals aren’t getting these services. They do it the same way that they get jobs, by stealing other people’s identities and using fake ID’s.
Sometimes I think that I have left planet Earth and am now living in the Twilight Zone.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I am one that if a white man, black man or anyone else ever asked me to help them I would more than agree to help them.
I would never ask them for proper i,d. I dont hate anyone no matter who you are or what language you speak.
Yet I have heard people making remarks when someone speaks spanish to speak english.
If someone ever told me that I would not walk away. I would have to correct then at the point. I speak Spanish and English to my children. I dont worrie about someone telling me something beacause I would snap back at them.
I bet most of you who place these comments dont say this out in public. DO YOU??? NOT!
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society
I agree 100%. I dont understand why there is people that have so much hate towards us mexicans.
And regarding bush you dont have to be a genius to understand the bad things he has done to the U.S.
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
coach04
im right behind you on that one. well said.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Do you not think white, blacks, or asian ever steal identification cards? You must be racist leahb78_1999. Some poor Mexican must have stolen you wallet and spent your money.
Hay like I said If I walked passed you on the streets and you needed help I would help you. You on the other hand seem like you would not give me the time or day. Wow, I have an clue how you may have been raised.
My kids will never be raised with racisism.
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 3, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach04, do you not know how to spell? Do you not know the difference between a Mexican and an illegal? You must be stupid.
I have good friends and immediate family who are from Mexico. Don't have a problem with any of them because of their race. I only have a problem with ILLEGALS... Again, the twilight zone theme song is running through my brain.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,4...
If the candidates see illegal immigration as a no-win battle, why not address the horrible problem we face regarding drunk drivers and the slap on the hand these people receive time and time again including after they have killed innocent people!
Posted by luv2sail on September 3, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach, although all races steal, it is predominatly those who are illeagal, regardless of which Country they come from, who then use those ID's to get jobs.
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
leahb78
whats your main problem with illegals? and be honest?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)
josess, we live in a good area. We are surrouned by our people. People can say what they want but they understand that they have to live with us. We are nice people. Our culture raised us to respect people yet at the same time dont not let someone step on our toes.
All we need to do is get our people to "VOTE". We will make a difference. We need to always pass the word. You can see with examples like Viragosa, Los Angeles. We need to put more of our people in the office.
Have faith and believe in God and we will. "VIVA LA RAZA" VIVA!!!! GOD BLESS OUR PEOPLE.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 11:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)
As for this story, I will give my standard response...my issue is with people coming here illegally, not with Mexicans or any other nationality...go through the proper channels and I say "WELCOME!", come here illegally and it is simply a slap in the face to those who did it properly, waited their turn and obey the law...we can not reward those who break the law, it only perpetuates the problem.
Posted by luv2sail on September 3, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower, the reason there are not more severe punishments for DWI is it's a huge cash cow for the Counties. Drunk driving can be stopped by instant imprisonmentfor a year for 1st, life for the 2nd.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I know drunk driving is off topic and I am sorry...just something I am passionate about but I firmly believe that drunk driving needs to be treated as attempted murder...people KNOW in advance probably 99% of the time if they will be needing to drive home or not and cabs are available and I tell all my loved ones...CALL ME any time, don't risk innocent lives...
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
leahb78_1999 you have no clue what a Mexican or illegal is. Just beacause you have friends or have family who married into a Mexican family makes you think that you have a clue? Sorry but NO! Define Mexican and illegal.
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
EVERYONE,
TAKE A MINUTE OF YOUR TIME GO OUTSIDE AND LOOK FOR THE NEAREST MEXICAN AND GIVE THEM A GREAT BIG HUG AND BELIEVE ME ALL THE HATRED WOULD JUST FADE AWAY.
:) :) :)
Posted by gramagracie on September 3, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let's get something straight here, the whole article was about Obama camp not addressing the issue of illegal immigration! We can all agree there is illegal immigration point is THEY, the Dems, are not going to do anything one way or the other! Get it? I am an AMERICAN of mexican decent, born in the USA...
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 11:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with everyone who says that anyone who comes to the United State illegal is commiting a crime. Yet at the same time I also believe that there should be some sort of channel soo that anyone who wants to come hear should be able to get citizenship.
I also believe that if we are able to prove that we have been working hear for years without commiting any crimes other than crossing over and show proof then those people should be given a chance.
Folks you cant have your cake and eat it too. For you to close the doors on us without bending a little is stupid.
Posted by NowHearThis on September 3, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Two examples:
There are 11 players on the football field for one team. If more players try to get into the game to play, it is illegal and there is a penalty.
Does anyone like high rental prices for homes, apartments and duplexes in Ventura County? Respond if you do.
Fact: The STAR reported about three-years ago that there were 50,000 illegal aliens in Ventura County. Now, if all 50,000 of these illegal aliens living in the county were deported, then lots of rentals would become available for legal residents and citizens AND at very cheaper prices.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It does not seem to be practical to send all who are here illegally back to their country of origin.
So can we at least close the floodgates and not let anymore people in? We have to start somewhere.
I just love how people can come here illegally and then start complaining about how unfair things are. It's incredible and truly blows me away.
And someone please answer the question - can illegal immigrants vote? Are you telling me that we don't check citizenship to allow people to vote?
Democracy and the right to vote are cornerstones of our nation. If legal status is not a requirement, I think that is going to now be the thing that p*sses me off the most.
What kind of freakin' country are we running here?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Well I would love to debate this more but I have to work. I look forward to seeing you future comments on this same tapic another time.
Sorry for all my grammer errors. Like leahb78_1999 I must be stupit since I cant spell proper. You can tell by a stupit comment like that she is perfect. You all have a nice day no matter what race you are.
Posted by HereWeGoAgain on September 3, 2008 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As the granddaughter of legal immigrants I am not as understanding as some when it comes to illegal immigration. There is a line to get in this country and people need to learn to wait in it. How can people demand things when they are not even supposed to be here in the first place? When I was growing up we spoke English at school and NEVER needed any kind of government help to live. We owned our home and my parents paid taxes. We are decent people with no criminals or gangbangers in our family. Most of the men in my family have served in the military. My parents have always reminded us how lucky we are to be in this country. I do not feel patriotic towards Mexico because Mexico has NEVER done anything for our family. I still love my roots but I don’t love the bad reputation that Mexicans have earned themselves. I am disgusted to see neighborhoods turned into little replicas of the ghetto neighborhoods that they left behind whether it be Mexico or any other country. I am very proud of who I am and speak fluent spanish but what is wrong with assimilating and living like and American? I know I am not the only hispanic to feel this way.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One thing, I'm sure we all understand that "No" you cant vote if your illegal.
My message again to my people is this: Yes they can build 2000 mile walls and yes they can have so called Minute Men looking out for illegals crossing.
But "No" they cant stop those of us who can vote. We will vote and sometime in the near future we will make a difference. God Willing!
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 3, 2008 at 12:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As idiotic as this is, here are my definitions:
Mexican – A person who holds citizenship in the country of Mexico.
Illegal Immigrant – A person who enters a country in a way that violates that country’s laws.
And FYI, my original post contained absolutely NO references to race or nationality. So does that make me a racist if the only word that was used in my post was the world “illegal”. If I say something is illegal it automatically means I am a racist??
Still living in the twilight zone…
Posted by LUKY1 on September 3, 2008 at 12:18 p.m.
(This thread was removed by the site staff.)
Posted by fkdupnoodle on September 3, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach04- I was born in the US and come from Mexican parents. You have not once made a comment about the ARTICLE, you my friend are making US look bad. You're typing away with all you exclamation points making no sense. Do your people a favor and stop your comments please! You sound very ignorant. Nothing personal and I'm not trying to be mean but its people like you who give us a bad name with these caucasian folks.
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 3, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BeaHappy,
When was the last time you had to show your identification when voting? When I got married, I submitted the paperwork to change my voter registration information and found out the next time I voted that I was registered to vote under two different names. The volunteers at the polling booth couldn't even tell me how to go about fixing it when I asked. I finally got it resolved, but the fact that I was registered under two different names using the same SSN and address tells me that identification is not checked or verified when it comes to voting.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 12:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
Your the biggest illegal enabler in these posts.
Who says we have to transport them all home and it will cost anything? The answer is easy. Instead of wasting money on Iraq, send the troops to our borders. Set prison and million dollar fines for all companies employing illegals. Cut off all social services to illegals by forcing them to show ID's (what a concept) like all Americans have to do. Better yet, force Mexico to provide the same social benifits to their citizens or we will invade their country, seize all assets, and distribute it to their citizens. Enough said.
Posted by luv2sail on September 3, 2008 at 12:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
High_Society, I'll try this once again. Arizona is the only state that verifies citizenship of voters. So, if you're illeagal or a legal immigrant, all you have to do is register and lie, no verification.
Great system.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anyone who says that illegals are picking the fruits and vegatables that we eat has never been to a supermarket or is not paying attention.
All the vegetables and fruits are from places like Equador or somewhere in South America. We get small amounts of our own, home grown produce.
They are picking it for someone else. When have you seen a avacado in the supermarket from Ventura County? I am not talking about a roadside stand.
Posted by getreal on September 3, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coah you need to go back to Mexico. How dare you come to MY country and trash MY President? I hope they catch you on the next round up.
Posted by get_to_work on September 3, 2008 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
FedUp -
Yes get back to work because I am fed up with your bull!!!
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
fkdupnoodle sorry but the one that doesnt make any sense. You must have not read this article from start.
You have no idea of what giving a bad name is. Ive helped out my community in many ways. Most of the people who live in my cummunity is from Mexico or of Mexican decent.
Read the artice in full. If you read my comments you would understand that when I have a chance to stick up for my people and the sacrafices they made in order to come to the United States then you would understand.
Please do not tell me that you are one of those who lived hear all there lives and think they are now Americanized. Sorry but Im one who will always walk for peace and to secure my peoples future. Keep up your ways of thinking. Again thank your parents for giving you the chance to make this comment. You should not hate for someone defending my people.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC_Sexplorer:
I'M the biggest enabler? I merely questioned your logic. Which you STILL have not answered with a reasonable and legitimate response. I agree with bringing the troops back and using those with time commitments to supporting INS and local law enforcement. Strictly for the purpose of deporting illegal citizens is STILL going to cost a lot of money. Where will those funds come from? You're going to send a "surge" to San Ysidro? How 'bout you send out troops to that family who came here LEGALLY via their home country's visa 6 months ago and now that it's expired, you send the troops into deport them?
That's a bit extreme. But for YOU, it seems logical as you are not a logical person. Leahb's hearing the twilight zone music coming from YOUR comments.
The RENT PRICES LOWERING if you get rid of 50K illegals in Oxnard is just plain STUPID. No education required to come up with that theory.
What social services to ILLEGAL immigrants receive? Yes, the instances exist where IDs are stolen, but mostly, they are borrowed from relatives that are legal residents but are not here to use their SS#s. You people are stupid to believe EVERY comment that runs across that news ticker on Fox News.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
ANDJUSTICEFORALL:
Get this straight and read this several times if you need to in order to understand this. People don't consider you racist because you use the term "illegals". You are racist for the irresponsible racist generalizations that you make AFTER using that phrase to describe your target of criticism. I realize you have a lot of pent up anger, but belittling an entire population of people is not going to solve the issue. Bantering on this thread will not solve the issue. Seek the source of the attraction for illegal immigrants to come to the U.S.? It's the jobs. The great majority are NOT here to steal your car, they're NOT here to visit the ER, they're NOT here to enroll in school. Those uses of public services are incidental to the main reason they come over: TO WORK.
Fine the hell out of employers that abuse the immigration system (because, you're blind to believe other wise: THEY KNOW they're hiring illegal immigrants!!!) Take that away, they won't come over. BTW, education is paid for when Illegals pay SALES TAXES, pay rent to someone that in turn pays their PROPERTY TAXES and contribute to STATE and FEDERAL INCOME TAXES when they withhold $ from their illegal immigrant paychecks. (and don't go off on a "well, they get paid in cash"...as we can put up just as many LEGAL citizens abusing that system as well...moot point)
ER services: you can't tell me that there's a legitimate way of knowing who's illegal and who's NOT? (I've said before, people don't walk around with their citizenship paperwork stapled to their foreheads for you to claim to have LEGIT statistics to support that claim.
Illegal Citizens don't vote. There's enough problems getting LEGAL citizens to VOTE...so PLEASE, spare me the "they're abusing of the voting system too!" argument.
Quit crying and propose a more reasonable and constructive method of dealing with the issue. One that is multi-faceted and addresses all detriments including improvements when dealing with illegal immigration.
Posted by caffeinefree on September 3, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
keepin_it_real. Maybe the reason we tolerate here in California is because we know deep down inside this land is their land. Or it least it was before they battled it away for the natives that were here before them. We tolerate it because unlike other countries, all of us trace our roots back to some other country. In other countries the majority of the people who live their actually came from there and can trace their roots back to that very same place they call home. Our homes our country of origin is in some distant land far far away and it’s likely we will never see the land where we came from. However the Mexicans who are coming back home to California were from here, got forced out and are making their way back home. You can trace their roots right back here to California. Isn't that a trip? That's why we tolerate it....Welcome home to all that come back over the border to reclaim what was once theirs. This land is your land, this land is my land, this land was made for you and me........(all together now)............
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I believe that Obama will secure our borders yet at the same time I also belive he will help pass laws that those who want to become a citizen will be abel if they do the proper steps.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 1:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Racist is thrown around all too often, any disagreement and people are called racist. I have been called xenophobic on here because of my stance on illegals and yet...the silly woman I am, I went a married an immigrant! (legal, of course!)
High Society, thanks for the invite, I will check it out. Aside from this comments section, I don't know anything about blogging, but it may be something worth looking into. Take care!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Italians are "Italians" or "Italian-Americans". The Irish are "Irish" or "Irish-Americans". Polish people are "Polish" or "Polish-Americans".
Mexican people are "Mexican" or "Mexican-Americans".
Those caucasian people that hate on other ethnic groups ONLY HAVE "Americans" to call themselves. There's no culture behind it. What' shte American culture? Freedom, so American's ALONE are "free"? Arguable. Capitalism? Is that part of American culture? No, other countries practice capitalism. Patriotism? Well, I'm pretty sure other countries are PATRIOTIC. America, since inception, has no specific "culture" because it consisted of like-minded people from various ethnicities pursuing a way of life where they can live TOGETHER.
Italians, French, Spanish, Mexican, Argentinians, Brazilians, Swedes, British, each have some "culture" that they're proud to represent, thus, they call themselves, "Italian", "Polish", "Swedish"...EVEN if they are american citizens. Their citizenship does not take away from their heritage, culture and ethnicity. Their AMERICAN citizenship is great. Cherished, but by NO MEANS a replacement for the ethnicity that they are derived from. To BLAST people for being proud of their heritage and waving flags from their countries is not only ignorant, but a jealous act.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Andjusticeforall: And where were YOU educated. I'm almost certain I'm more educated than you. Go ahead, answer the question.
As for the "thinking" that you're mis-understanding from my comment, please I encourage you to learn to read for comprehension.
In NO way can it be compared to living under the "sky's falling" pretense. Take away all illegal immigrants and those that hired them are STILL crooked and willing to break the law, just as much as those that crossed illegally. If you knew how to read properly, you'd understand that the point I was making is that standing around b*tching about illegals this, and illegals that has not worked...EVER. It requires more thought, analysis seeking the root cause. WORK is the root cause for illegal immigration. I'm telling you what most ALL illegal immigrants come here for. (Ask them, really.)
Then again, asking you to think is like asking WHATEVER to make sense when he posts and to reply when prodded for his level of education as he believes it to be superior to most.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 1:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
Obviously you don't understand that if you take away the jobs and the social services (examples: housing, Wic, schooling with free lunch, and much more)away they will leave on their own. No Free stuff and no job, they will find their way home. Guaranteed.
Don't put words in my mouth. like a serge of troops rounding up people. Give me a break!
I said nothing about rents - must have been someone else.
Many buy SS# by the way, and the rest need not worry about applying for services because illegal immigrant interest groups make sure that they never have to use a ID.
Go to any city housing program and they will tell you that they can't verify citizenship. I have asked them, WHY DON'T YOU?
How about taxing income of just the people who support illegal immigration an extra 15%? I am sure that would help your cause. Don't you agree?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Incase many of you think that illegals only get paid cash, your wrong.
Beacause many laws have changed many employers pay there people with a check. There is money being paid for taxes. Quit believing these people who say we never pay taxes. One way or another the goverment gets there money.
Also what about the money we put into these stores, gas stations, ect. Do you people not think we dont buy things. If you had no people then our econonmy would really be hit hard. No people no money.
All you crybabies who say how bad we are to your country what about President Bush who stole from AlGore. Everyone knows that Bush didnt play fair. Yet everyone seems to forget about that. Quit your crying and if you really wanted to do something about it then why dont you run for congress? Maybe because you wont get the vote.
Posted by gramagracie on September 3, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
whatever...finally somebody who read the article.
miaculpa...I feel the same way you do. I am an American plain and simple. My only shame for Mexicans is that Mexico, the land that they love, is corrupt and Mexico does not take care of the people, that's why they come here. Come, with the proper procedures.
fkdupnoodle...look up the word "caucasian"..sorry to tell you but you are a "caucasian" my friend. I suggest that if you want to help the people in Mexico you go fight their cause there. By the way, for all you Bush hater's...there is oil..buckets and buckets of oil in Mexico...let's start the revolution all over again and take the whole country. Like I said before, the people of Mexico would be in America, the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave. When was the last time Mexico used their military..oops..I forgot..THEY HAVE THEIR MILITARY IN THEIR SOUTHERN BORDER..keeping their illegals out!!! How do you like them apples...I like mine with my American Pie.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
High_Society: Whatever is uneducated. I've yet to be amazed at the vast education he's received. Oops, I mean, which high school he barely graduated from.
I also challenged "AndJusticeForAll" as where he was educated, since he's posting about people being "uneducated" and such.
Waste of time.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
I also forgot to include rental property owners must ID renters or face jail and heavy fines.
That also will help illegals move back to the country in which they came.
Posted by Franko on September 3, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach-Stop already. I speak fluent Spanish and English and I am getting a headache trying to understand what you are saying. Fkdupnoodle is right!
Miaculpa-Yup, totally agree with you.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 1:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am sorry, but insulting someone's education because you don't agree with their point of view is pretty petty.
If someone graduates from high school, that is a step in the right direction, had he/she not graduated, they'd be insulted for that too...
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 1:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
not you...
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC_Sexplorer: They don't get free housing at the rate that you believe it to be. They don't receive WIC, they don't receive WELFARE. The BRUNT of the drain is from LEGAL CITIZENS. You saying it does, does not make it true. I guess better written would be to state that they "aren't allowed to" because there are always exceptions to every rule.
We agree that taking away the jobs will lead them to leave. Their jobs (however low paying they are) are their source of income...like I said, they don't receive unemployment if they're not working, they don't receive a social security check if they retire. How's THIS for a compromise on the strategy you're proposing. How 'bout we agree that they should FINE THE HELL outta the employers that violate these immigration laws by hiring illegal immigrants....AND..the government puts more money into improving the verification system being used to distribute social services. If that's your believe, you're democratic. It might HURT you to believe that if you're Republican, but that's how it works. By funding the programs that verify citizenship before distributing social services, you eliminate those services. But "cutting them off" WITHOUT improving the system only leads to more problems and in fact the same problems down the line.
That's a compromise no?...your thoughts?
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower:
I don't believe you to be a racist, although you do have a stance against illegal immigration. Wonder why? Because you don't follow up our comments with ignorant generalizations that require very little thought.
I have beef with WHATEVER because time and time again, he has insulted and deemed everyone that does not come to his same realization to be uneducated, he deemed "ALL LEFTY'S" to be uneducated.
I merely am pointing out that he has never justified his sense of entitlement as to the crown of "highly educated" on these posts. He complains about name-calling all the while practicing it himself.
High_Society has a good point, the highly educated can also be ignorant...so should I use that adjective instead to describe WHATEVER?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
gramagracie like you asked, how you like them apples......with you American Pie. Did you forget no caucasian ever picked them apples. How do you think did?
I would love to see ALL THE MEXICAN AMERICANS, MEXICANS, OR HISPANIC JUST FOR THREE DAYS STOP WORKING, OR GOING TO THE STORE, OR EVEN SEND THERE KIDS TO SCHOOL AND SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEND TO THIS LAND OF THE FREE.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 1:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If legal citizens are truly the drain on social services, I firmly believe we need to take extreme steps to take care of the abuse. We all know it is everywhere. I will give Clinton credit for his welfare reform, but it needs to be taken a few steps further. I think there needs to be a child limit to receive benefits, I believe two if fair...some may feel one, regardless, there needs to be an end in sight to the assistance. Bea had suggested that they (the women) need to be on birth control and to be in the system. There has got to be better ways to get these people back to working for their own and stop relying on others to pay for their expenses.
Heck, I would have LOVED to have more kids than the two beautiful blesings I have, but I knew I couldn't afford to raise them comfortably so I made the decision to stop.
With that said, I also know there are people who truly need this assistance and they should have it as a hand up...not a hand out.
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach04, I have read all your comments and all I hear you saying is "my people", "us" and so forth. But then you proceed to say "If YOU had no people then OUR econonmy would really be hit hard." Make up your mind. Are you with the USA or against the USA? If you are against the USA, then go back where you came from.
I do not mind any illegal being here as long as they are taking the necessary steps to be LEGAL. What I can't stand are the illegals that come here get benefits they don’t deserve and have no intention of becoming a citizen let alone learn English. Simply BS to me.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 1:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"I would love to see ALL THE MEXICAN AMERICANS, MEXICANS, OR HISPANIC JUST FOR THREE DAYS STOP WORKING, OR GOING TO THE STORE, OR EVEN SEND THERE KIDS TO SCHOOL AND SEE WHAT WILL HAPPEND TO THIS LAND OF THE FREE."
...all or just illegal? Because I think that for the most part, people have a problem with the ILLEGAL part.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
h2odog, are you also "AMERICANIZED"?
YOU SOUND LIKE IT....NICE!
Posted by getreal on September 3, 2008 at 1:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach I would love to see that too, then people will realize it's not needed. Maybe it would take time but eventually the Americans would go back to doing their jobs in our land of the free. OMG can you imagine one day in Oxnard with no crime commited by a hispanic! How great would that be!! No more ESL in school because all the children speak the language of this free land? My child can get a decent education and not be learning at a slower rate to help the ESL students? I can only imagine.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Listen, some of my favorite people in life are Mexicans...so no, I don't view them all the same. My issue isn't about race, it's simply about legal vs. illegal and the fact that there are people doing their best to go everything by the book while others just skip ahead and think they are owed everything American has to offer. That angers me! Trust me, the thought of denying a child an education or health care regardless of where their birth place is isn't an easy thing to stand firm with, but to me it is the principle of right and wrong and the children are simply the victims being dragged along.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Who said to get rid of the jobs? Again, you mis-understood. The jobs available to illegal immigrants should be eliminated by placing HEAVY FINES on the employers who break the law and hire illegal immigrants. How is that so far fetched? I know it's capitalism and all to want to turn a good profit, but by breaking the law? Is THAT the Capitalism at it's finest or just as illegal as illegal immigration?
BTW: My UG was from WU in St. Louis.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Andjusticeforall, sounds like you have no brains. You must be a true racist....Sorry to hear that.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Listen, some of my favorite people in life are Mexicans...so no, I don't view them all the same.
Darn phone keeps interupting me!...that was, I don't treat them any different because they are Mexican.
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 3, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach04, you say that I must be racist, well let’s review the comments you have posted thus far, shall we?
“We need to put more of our people in the office.”
“ VIVA LA RAZA” VIVA!!!! GOD BLESS OUR PEOPLE.”
“Please do not tell me that you are one of those who lived hear (sic) all there (sic) lives and think they are now Americanized.”
“Sorry but Im (sic) one who will always walk for peace and to secure my peoples (sic) future.”
Sorry Coach04, but you seem to be the only one who is obsessed with advancing your own race.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
getreal did someone punck you in school?
Dont blame us for that....
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower - amen sister! Not saying that there aren't plenty of US citizens abusing the system too and you're right, between all of us we could come up with a plan to fix that.
coach04...so do you want to be treated like a guest in the United States or do you want to be a permanent, legal resident? Which is it?
USA baby - love it or leave it. If you leave, please take about 100,000 of your closest friends with you.
I get it, Mexico doesn't do enough for its people and there aren't opportunities, the government is corrupt, etc. I understand people wanting to make a better life for themselves. But for the love of God, you can't just break the law to enter a country and then expect for everything to be handed over to you.
And I'm sure I'll get flack for this comment but here goes...if you are here illegally, do you need to make the United States look like Mexico? With trash and run down cars and homes that are not cared for?
I'm not saying that everyone who is illegal lives this way but you know what I'm talking about. And before you go all crazy on me, there are plenty of US citizens who live this way too.
Here's a tip...poor does not have to equal slovenly.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BeaHappi:
Glad you ended your comment with an acknowledgement of there are plenty of US citizens who live this way too. But why even make the comment? Why? One could counter that comment (even with your acknowledgment) as: "Well Bea...it's the Middle American way. Just replacing the Confederate Flag with the Mexican Flag." Now I'M going to catch flack for that huh? See what you started? LOL. (TM)
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No andjusticeforall dont just put in half of what I wrote just to make yourself look good.
All I want is that one day ALL OF US HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITY AS ANYONE ELSE.
My name is coach for a reason. I coach all ethnecitys. I dont start a player because he is Mexican or from other country. I am fair with everyone.
Is it wrong for one to wish that there people live without being looked at because of there color?
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BTW, I am still all for the chain gang and sending prisoners out for picking the crops to work off their debt to society. This would work on a few levels:
1) Eliminating some of the jobs that attract illegal immigrants
2) Lower the cost of produce
3) A little hard labor might make them want to rethink their life of crime.
Posted by getreal on September 3, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What's a punck? Since I have no clue what that is then no, I didn't get puncked in school.
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Bea - you are such a racist! :) hahaha.
coach seems to be the only racist on this board. VIVA LA RAZA?? WTF is that all about? if I walked around saying "white is right" I would be crucified. how is what coach is saying any different? bunch of lefty leaning hypocrites!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Whatever:
....let me add something to that picture (that you left out).....and women couldn't vote, and African-Americans had to ride in the back of the bus, it was ok to lynch an African-American if you thought he broke the law...even if you couldn't prove it...white kids and colored kids could not drink from the same drinking fountains let alone go to the same schools. The government still insisted that African-American's were going to get their guaranteed "forty acres and a mule". Life was good for the "White Male" in this country back then.....oh wait...but it was that same White Male that brought African's over on the boat and forced the Chinese to build the railroads and had the Japanese in those internment camps that went to MEXICO to ask the hard workers to come over and help the US during the Bracero movement....yes...life was GRAND wasn't it WHATEVER?
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 2:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
You said:
By funding the programs that verify citizenship before distributing social services, you eliminate those services. But "cutting them off" WITHOUT improving the system only leads to more problems and in fact the same problems down the line.
I don't get what your saying, funding programs that verify citizenship? it's called a valid drivers license or state ID.
What problems would happen by cutting them off? Crime? We have that already? explain...
What about the idea about a tax increase for supporters? Don't want to touch that one do you?
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
High_Society: "I am against protesting."
So does that mean that you would protest a protest? I'm sorry...had to say it....I'm just kidding with you BTW.
Just sayin' is all. (TM)
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way I wish you can see how many loan applications I do everyday.....Do you have any idea how many caucasians make less than 2,000.00 month? Alot less than you may want to believe.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
what the heck does someone's income have to do with anything, at least they are working!!!...omg, this is just stooping lower and lower!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC_Sexplorer: What I mean is that we should establish a citizenship verification system that WORKS. Various people on this post that have jobs which require them to complete background checks have commented that the current systems do NOT work. We won't even go there with the DMV and how efficiently and accurately they currently work. Really, the money would be spent to have personnel who's sole responsibility is to complete background checks for social programs that you are complaining that provide benefits to illegal immigrants. Essentially, yes, it would be cutting them off, but to go through the systems and find them would cost too much money. That money is better spent on improving the system/process and THEN start filtering through the recipients to eliminate system abusers, including LEGAL citizens that do not qualify for such services (whole seperate conversation).
BTW, I'm already supposed to pay at the highest tax bracket, what more do you want from me?
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC_Sexplorer: And...yes...I mean that if you simply cut them off in one fell swoop, the problems and abusers will find another way to return to abusing the social services systems. So yeah, that crime will return.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Poverty has no definintive race/ethnicity Coach. Yes, some people don't know that their sh*t stinks too, but no need to bring in that comment...what purpose?
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 2:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"By the way I wish you can see how many loan applications I do everyday.....Do you have any idea how many caucasians make less than 2,000.00 month? Alot less than you may want to believe."
and by a large margin, the winner of the dumbest post of all time. congrats coach! you win.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DrcGrl you talk about illegals getting benefits what about the blacks and caucasian and everyone else.
Incase you havent looked go to the shopping center where T.G.I.F and McDonalds located on Rose ave in the middle Island on the wkds you will see a caucasian "Pan Handling". Never will you see a Mexican. What about that?
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry, Coach...this is one whitey you won't see shopping at the Rose!
We have already addressed the issue that there is abuse by all nationalities.
You want to keep pushing the brown pride? Looks like you are even turning your own people off!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach: Their counter will be "well...at least he served his country" or "at least he's a legal citizen".....while relevant, those on this post won't go there. They still point out that illegal citizens are criminals by breaaking the law to get here...even though they are less of a drain on society than the homeless because they actually contribute the local and nations economy through their labor.
I saw get the homeless that are capable, out in the fields working the 10-12 hour days and 7 days a week and pay them the rates illegals get. One less drain on society. I won't include ALL homeless as some have been put out to die on the streets even though they're in need of mental services or even Veteran's abandoned by the people they fought in war for.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry all of you are correct, I fell off the subject some time ago. I oppologize if I affended anyone.
I meant to say is that even though the laws are changing alot more hispanics, i.e Mexican Americans are owning there business and are not just making min wage
I was not trying to dissrespect anyone. Sorry for that comment.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I sense that Coach has a frustration at the same level that "Whatever" has, just on opposite sides. He simply may not have the ability to express his frustration fruitfully in conversation. He's trying.
Posted by getreal on September 3, 2008 at 2:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Illegals make well above $9/hr plus a bonus for each "basket". Some Ammerican don't even make that, its well above min wage! Then they cram multiple families into one home and send their income to Mexico. This isn't helping the US economy.
Posted by kelly13 on September 3, 2008 at 2:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One more time....
This article is about immigration and what immigrants want. I don't think we have a problem with immigration or immigrants. The problem is illegal immigration and illegal immigrants.
And to all those who say more legals are on welfare or begging on the street than illegals...I sure hope so. Our welfare system and our country needs to take care of our citizens. It's set up to take care of our problems. That is hard enough for us to work on let alone take on the problems of other countries that won't take care of their own. We have been overloaded.
We need to build the fence, secure the border, and enforce our laws.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I will say this last comment:
I DONT HATE ANYONE! I DO HOWEVER FEEL THAT MY FAMILY AND FAMILYS FAMILY HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGENTS,
WHEN I HEAR COMMENTS ON ILLEGALS AND HOW WE TAKE YOUR JOBS, AND DONT WANT TO DO IT THE AMERICAN WAY I LASH OUT.
UNFORTUNATELY, I MAY NOT LASH OUT THE WAY I WANT. SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THOSE OF YOU WHO GET MY COMMENTS CONFUSSING. FOR THAT I DO SAY THAT I AM SORRY.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
That is so sad! They are so young!
I look forward to the day when the government passes some real laws against drinking and driving so maybe less families have to deal with this senseless pain.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
If doesn't matter to you that everyone else is paying who don't support illegals. You now know where all the anger you see from everyone here orgininates.
By the way improving the system DOES include filtering out abusers LEGAL and ILLEGAL. Where else better to start with illegals. Also, at the end it would cheaper to implement Secure IDs then it would be to pay for all the negatives from illegal immigration. Although you surely disagree, but contact the Arizona State Government and ask them in detail what is their cost savings from the actions they are taking. It's to long to put on this comment list.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
OMG, Coach is an illegal discriminated agent...that explains it all!
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower...you just had to go there, didn't you? Now I'm looking like a fool, laughing alone in my office.
:~)
Posted by getreal on September 3, 2008 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society you obviously have not been unemployed in a long time. I have many, many friends who fell victim to the mortgage crisis. Because some were in this line of work 25+ years, they were unable to find a similar job. With so many unemployed, some had to take what they could get to survive. Maybe min wage is a little low but pretty darn close.
Posted by Franko on September 3, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach-To answer your question. Yes, I am Americanized, as much as I can. Old Glory is my flag. However, I do love my Mexican roots. Specifically, the music, the food, the family unity, the rich Aztec/Indian history.....
I am not proud of the "Malinche" attitude that has hampered our culture since the arrival of Cortez. I also am not proud of the "Vendido" corrupt Mexican Government that continues to oppress and violate anyone and everyone living in Mexico.
If you are the person you say, one who is all loving and feel so proud of your Mexico...then why aren't you in Mexico fighting for your equal rights?
Desaparecido would be your name instead of Coach....
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So coach04...do you think that we should just leave things as they are and continue to have millions of illegal immigrants stream into this country?
If you had to come up with a solution to the problem, what would it be?
Do you even think there is a problem?
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach is my new favorite person on here. sorry bea, you have been replaced!
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Fed up, you are a discriminated agent too!
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
FedUp...I'm devastated...it's the racist in me, isn't it?
Am I still in your top 5? That will give me something to strive for!
:~)
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabysDaddy_01
Thank you for your help. I may have gotten more people mad at my comments than I wanted to.
I am sorry for not making sence with the comments I wrote.
Believe or not I speak way better than I write. I can also express myself better when I talk in person. So thanks again for all your help.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Bea, You're my favorite, I think FedUp is attracted to the outlaw...the illegal in Coach! She's a rebel!
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 2:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach, since you bring up “panhandling” let me first give you the definition so you can retract your statement to me.
Pan-han-dle – (verb)
1. to accost passers-by on the street and beg from them.
2. to accost and beg from.
3. to obtain by accosting and begging from someone.
With that said, might I remind you of several street corners in the Ventura County alone where you have “illegals” begging for work. “What about that?”
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I might have room for you in my top 5 bea. :) coach definitely takes up at least a couple of spots. and is coach a female?? no way can that be true.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We need a gender indicator on this thing...
FedUp, I refered to you as a female, if I am incorrect...sorry.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC_sexplorer: No...it doesn't bother me because the way I see it...if I have to worry about paying more than someone else does in taxes, then that means I make very good money...if I make very good money...why would I worry about the portion of my taxes going to pay for services I would never benefit from in the first place? Please tell me why I should worry? Now, when the money goes to fighting a war I see no merit in, now THAT chaps my hide...and pisses me off...if your government's going to blow your taxes on something....at least have them blow it in the U.S. on people living, buying and working in the U.S. In my opinion, if you work you contribute, if you don't (and are not legitimately disables or retired), then you're a drain on the system until you can get to work. Place the illegals wherever you want, but my condition is whether a person works or not before I qualify them as a drain or not on the economy.
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hold on, let me check. yep, I am a dude. :)
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I AGREE THAT THER IS A PROBLEM HEAR IN THE UNITED STATES.
I also feel that yes those who are not a citizen back to there original county but at the same time give them a chance to get legalized.
And just for everyone to understand we all not all criminals. We stand to benefit the same thing everyone else has. We also believe in the American dream just like most of you.
Is that such a bad thing?
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Drcgrl: Are you saying that you are not aware of the commonly known insinuation of the term "panhandling"? Common day interpretation of the term "panhandling" can be defined as begging for hand outs...such as money or food. It in no way reflects those on the corner begging for work to EARN money. EARNING money is far different from BEGGING for to be handed out.
Just sayin' is all. (TM)
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Fedup: Don't forget to wash your hands after you just checked whether you're a dude or not. LOL. J/K
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry, FedUp (Blushing!)
Coach...breaking the law is a bad thing! It's simply legal vs. illegal. Just because it's something you want badly doesn't make it ok to obtain it illegally. I would really like a nicer car, but if I steal it to obtain it, I will go to jail.
If you want the American Dream badly enough, then it is worth working for legally!
Posted by FedUp on September 3, 2008 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
done. :)
Posted by Franko on September 3, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach-You are too funny! You should have quit a long time ago....My headache is almost gone...No disrespect intended!
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01, the definition of the word does not indicate a specific item, "begging from someone", thus can be begging for work or services.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It's the technicality that gets you Coach. Technically, what the immigrants did is illegal. That's where most people stop thinking.
The point that most people fail to put into perspective is that a portion of our nation's growth have been on the backs of the unknown and without legal citizenship. Yes, those that are here legally, tend to over look that very important FACT, but it must not be forgotten. BTW, the slaves from African were not given citizenship before they started working in the fields FOR FREE.
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01, now if you through hookers into this, that's just their glorified name, if you will.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)
DrcGrl: You missed the point. Go technicalities!!!! I think MOST people realize the intention when he used the word "panhandling". Also, I'm pretty sure I messed up some punctuation along the way...care to point those out too?
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm getting tired of typing.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach04...no, that's not such a bad thing at all. You seem to be a very decent, hardworking person. Unfortunately too many people are not. And the incredible numbers of illegal immigrants in our country...well it's definitely taking its toll.
Can we drop the..."Just sayin' is all. (TM)?"
We're all "just sayin..."
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy, I understand that we had slaves from Africa, and the Chinese built the railroads...I get all of that, but haven't we as a nation risen above that? This isn't the same country this was 50+ years ago and due to the growth of this country and the growth in crime and the weight of the system as a whole...changes need to be made!
We can't let people enter this country illegally due to national security. We have to be more pro-active, not just illegals looking for work but more importantly terrorists, and drug dealers that are coming in, rapists, murderers, etc. We MUST track the influx of people into this country better than we ever have for our own protection.
It's an issue of protecting Americans and ensuring that the processes that are IN place currently are enforced.
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01, point taken as I hope mine was to Coach. Again, I am not against Coach's "people" just the fact that not all take the time or even want to take the time to become legal.
Just sayin' is all. (TM) =o)
Sorry JR, I had to throw it back at him. =o)
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, very good point that I missed...coming here illegally puts everyone, no matter how decent and hardworking, in the criminal category.
hotwildflower...thanks for me being your fav! I feel the love!
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Of course, Bea. Just don't go become and discrimination agent and we will friends until the end of time.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Fedup
coach is 100% Mexican American Male!
Posted by nelsonknows on September 3, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't kid yourself folks, illegal aliens DO vote, not legally but they do and anyone that spews that you can't spot an illegal alien has lost their mind.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ill tell you what N_Cash I hope that you dont mind living with us cause no way in hell are you going to get rid of us.
You should also try to run for congress. I'm sure Tenesse whould love you up there.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower...done and done.
Secret agent? Maybe.
Discrimination agent? Never.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Or maybe Tennessee might too, I mean...at least you have options, N_Cash. ;)
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach04...are you saving money to become a citizen? What is your goal?
I'd favor a guest worker program for people who want to come here and work seasonally and then take themselves and their earnings back to their native country. Many illegal immigrants are here to do just that.
Heck, I welcome anyone who does what it takes to get here LEGALLY...well, except criminals and the unemployable.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower: My references were to add to "WHATEVER"'s prior post where he describe an oasis without "people from the South" which I took to mean Mexicans, Central Americans, Latin Americans.
Yes, we should rise up, but never forget where the country came from. We grew from off of slave labor. They were not citizens until MANY YEARS later. You saying, forget that? and that doesn't apply in this conversation? The Bracero movement that brought the Mexicans here in the first place was the same lies told to the slaves only in a different time and in different words. They went to Mexico and told them that they could come and live in the U.S. and work the fields making plenty of money and in excellent conditions and would have a chance to live here afterwards. (My Grandfather was one of those people that were recruited.) Guess what? They were lied to....how do they make things fair for those people? Round 'em up, put them on trains and send them back to Mexico (sounds familiar huh)? Now, flash-forward....employers are STILL hiring illegals, only not promising them anything for it besides the lower than minimum wage pay (whoever said they get $9 and hour plus bonuses is smoking crack)...and now...after American has benefited from paying lower prices for goods and services that illegals provided or helped provide to them, what do we hear?
Does that sound fair to you? Seriously...think about it...."FAIR". I'm not saying...open the floodgates..I'm saying...if a person has worked and contributed positively to the country and economy....help them find a way to stay and continue to do their part. As for the career criminals and those in prison...ship them out...no problem!
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower...I'd like to think that you are only doing this for my benefit. I am hoping that somewhere in our little cyber-world that someone is laughing with me right now...
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"As for the career criminals and those in prison...ship them out...no problem!"
Finally! Something we can all agree on!
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01
You can tell that you are very smart. Ive never herd you disrespect anyone and yet you stayed on the topic unlike myself who fell off along time ago.
I apploud you. Take care and I look forward to your future comments. You are the type of people we need who can understand us. Doesnt matter your race. Thanks again BabyzDaddy_01
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hasta luego Coach.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Is that really all you read Bea? I'm embarassed that I've given you more credit than that.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
YES, YES , YES,
BabyzDaddy_01 I wish I could have said it like you. Your last comment was 100% on the mark.
Have you ever thought of running for office? I swear we need people like you. Thank you again!
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am not saying forget, but let's move on. You mention how your grandfather was lied to, and I am sorry...but does that mean that you want to take it out on the grandchildren of those who lied? How fair is that? Don't hold me accountable for my parents/grandparents sins.
I am also not saying throw them all back to where they came from, I understand there are adults here who were brought as children and wouldn't be able to survive in Mexico. There should be a way to walk them through the process of becoming citizens. My #1 concern is stopping the flood gates! Protect our country from people entering here illegally and those who could very well be dangerous...heck, we have enough dangerous people here already. We just need to be more proactive.
I agree completely with fining those who hire illegals, but we need some sort of task force that actually checks into this.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree that if you have a temp Visa and are a career criminal then you should never be able to step foot on this land. I agree!
Folks we are not all criminals. Many of us are Cathlic and raised to respect people.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I was in Foaster Homes from the age of 3-16yrs.
I came from Mexico.
I never had anyone help me out with money or anything.
I worked hard for everything that I had. I believe in the American Dream.
Almost everyone around me that is of Mexican decent believe the same way I feel.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 3:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01...no it's not all that I read but in regards to this discussion...it's something that several of the posters agreed on.
That seems to be the easiest to figure out...and no one would really have an argument against shipping career criminals and prisoners out.
The rest of it is very, very complicated as evidenced by the fact that illegal immigration is a huge problem, that no goverment leader, who is capable of making change, seems to be willing and/or able to tackle.
If people got here illegally but are hardworking, lawbiding, have kids in school, are learning English, and aren't a drain on society (i.e. they pay for their own health costs, etc) then let's quit waffling and figure out a guest worker, with the option to become legal, program.
If people just want to work here seasonally and be able to go back to their homeland in the off season, let's come up with something there too.
But for the love of God, we have to stop the influx of illegal immigrants. Not only is it a financial burden on our country but it is a national security issue. Anyone can come up through Mexico.
I appreciate your passion and the information you are providing. Personally, free rides for anyone...legal or illegal, p*ss me d*mn off since I've worked FT since I was 18 and have always provided for myself and now my family.
I think what gets me the most are the illegal immigrants who risk life and limb to get into this country but yet have no desire to learn English or wave our flag.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We started this debate since 9am and look what time it is?
This is a vey HOT topic. A topic that I feel very strong about. Can I express myself better, yes but we are not all perfect.
I wish more people would input there comments.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen, Sista!
And BabyzDaddy...that hurts that you think my comments can't be of some level of entertainment from time to time... :(
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01 ,
Most people are barly making ends meet, so why are we even taking about people who make enough money and are not worried about more taxes. Unbelievable. You said your at a high tax bracket, then why not have you pay more, your one of those people who you are talking about that are making enough and shouldn't care.
It also should make no difference if we spend money on a war or law breakers. I agree that are tax dollars should go to NEITHER but you are blindly focused on anything except the cost of illegals. Do you actually think their is no cost involved and all benefits?
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Watch yourself Hotwildflower, asking for a task force to check into this means you want more government. Someone might mistake you for a Democrat.
As for holding the grandchildren accountable for the sins of the grandparents comment, yes. Just like you want to get rid of the kids that are born here that have illegal parents. Holding the kids accountable for their parents actions. Be careful not to slide to the hypocritical side Hotwildflower...I respect your opinions because usually you don't slide that way chica...AND because you wisely married a Latino...LOL..J/K with you.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach, I don't mean this as a personal attack and I mean this sincerely, but you know...we all have a sad story to share about our childhood or so on...it's not about where you were but where you end up. I commend you for trying to better yourself, but where I have to disagree with you strongly is that you don't see the issue of legal vs. illegal and you still find it acceptable that people are sneaking into this country illegally. You state that you love America and the American Dream, shouldn't that be something worth working towards?
You usually have to work the hardest to get the things you want the most.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 3:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As a proud lib, let me just say that I have to disagree with coach on a couple of things. As an American of Mexican descent, I am far more American than Mexican. I love mexican food and Latina girls, but can't stand groups like mecha or people who use the word raza.
While I do sympathize with immigrants and the reasons they come here, it bugs the living sh!+ out of me how some people treat the streets as waste recepticles. It also irritates me that at parent nights at my kid's school, I have to wait for someone to do the presention on English while dozens of parents get it in Spanish.
Be proud of your culture all you want, but do not wave the Mexican flag in my country and denounce the very nation that provides you your livelyhood. Because when it comes time to vote on how to treat illegal immigrants, I may be lenient, but I promise you that I will vote with my countries best interests first.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
I see your taking to other people here about Mexican History.
If America turned into what Mexico is today, with the same government and the same benefits, I should say no benefits, would you feel you accomplished your goal? Is that your dream?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You all may one day see my son on T'V. He is a great athlete he is proud to be able to carry both Mexican and American Flags.
Beahappi I also 100% agree with your comments. You make much sence.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC_Sexplorer: I'm not at all saying there's no cost associated with. I'd gladly pay more...but there are far more sophisticated ways of doing it. BTW, I'd gladly pay the tax bracket I'm supposed to pay in, but the loopholes that Dubya has allowed for enable me NOT TO. It's said because what I believe in would not benefit me, but I still believe in it. Is it wrong? I'm still struggling with that. I just this the better good is done when the government is there for the people that are here to help lift the country to the top, where it used to be. Taking a chunk out of our working population that actually contributes would be more of a detriment, just to appease those that can't think beyond their first statement.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have never said to remove children because there parents were illegals, I say the parents who bring their children here illegally are turning their children into the victims.
Born here is a natural citizen, that's the law. Plain and simple, I am not disputing that.
As for more government, I am all for more policing if it protects our children...I am not saying to tax to get the money, that would be a very democratic statement, I would say cut excess spending and use it more wisely...that is the Republican in me! :)
And yes, I married extremely wisely...one for the fortunate ones to marry the love of my life!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
VC: Said they want to turn the U.S. into Mexico? Who REALLY believes that it could turn into Mexico? That's just stupid. I was merely pointing out how history applies in today's decisions and points of view.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Beahappi: A lot more reasonable...I can see you on several points you made on that post.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 3:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry, should have read "my country's best interest"
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
oh darn it, I put a "there" where a "their" should have been.
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
Also quit changing my user name.
vcs = ventura county star
explorer = explorer (not Sexplorer)
I didn't butcher your name so have some class or I will call you Daddys_a_baby.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr_E_Man I understand you view on this topic but I never once said that I would walk around waiving a Mexican Flag. I would however waive both the Mexican and American Flag together.
I am not an American. I am Mexican/American.
I also believe in making sure that my child respect there great nation but that doesnt mean that we cant have Mexican tradition while living hear.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
vssexplorer11, I just laughed out loud with that name change you offered babyzDaddy...that was a good one.
No offense, BzD, but it was funny!
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So Coach, if I hung a German flag up along with my American flag, would that not be offensive to some?
I am an American, very proudly so. Doesn't mean I don't appreciate my heritage, but none the less, I am 100% American! Red, white & blue!
Posted by getreal on September 3, 2008 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
vcsexplorer LOL, all this time I thought it was sexplorer. I'm sorry!!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry VCSEXPLORER.....it WAS intentional though...meant to be a joke.
Hotwildflower: No chuckles for the VC SEXplorer name change? I thought it was funny.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It was funny, but you getting called out on it was just a hair funnier.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
See? getreal got the play.
No offense though VCS...it's all for the sake of a "LOL".
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower: Truth be told...I kept waiting for him/her to call me on it too. Just didn't make it obvious enough I guess.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
...and there is nothing wrong with being a sexplorer as long as it is practiced safely.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
hotwildflower
Being that you are a proud America you have that choice.
I dont see anything wrong with me having both Mexican and American Flag.
I will never change my views on this.
Two questions that I have for you: Did you watch the Olympics? Did you see the athetes who are from hear representing other countrys? Why was nothing said there? Sorry three questions.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sorry, Coach...I only understood the 1st question and that is no, I did not watch the Olympics.
You missed my point, you are able to be proud of where you come from freely, if I show too much pride in who I am, I am called racist.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I was going to ask one day where that type of club was when I was younger..."the Ventura County Sexplorers". You're right though....safe way or no way.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Those calling you racist for having a German flag are ignorant HotwildGermanFlower.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As if every German was part of the Nazi regime or something. Come on...that's pretty ignorant to believe. It's always those ABSOLUTES ("All", "every") that get people in trouble. Take those out and people would make less ignorant comments and less people would be offended.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I am not saying it is right, but that is the world we live in today. I am a blond haired, blue eyed woman and can't be proud of who I am because people throw RACIST out all over the place.
Any other ethnicity can be proud of who they are and screaming from the top of their lungs and it is acceptable.
I am proud of who I am as an American, I am proud of my (caliente) Latino husband and my beautiful mixed children.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"...if I show too much pride in who I am, I am called racist."
You do have a valid point there hotwildflower...
In Oxnard, being a gringa, I AM a minority. I don't get offended when people talk about the beggars primarily being white. It's true!
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's a question for you coach. Do you think it would be right to illegally enter Mexico and then walk around with hundreds of my fellow Americans waving the American flag, chanting "LONG LIVE THE UNITED STATES" and demanding the Mexican Government to give me rights in their country?
In most countries, that would be considered an act of war. When you become a citizen here, it means that as a nation America comes first for you. To be an Amnerican citizen with voting rights and wave a Mexican flag (regardless of whether you also fly the red, white and blue) could be considered an act of treason.
So before you strat waving the Mexican flag and start chanting about your "Raza," you might want to reconsider where your heart is. If your race is more important than your nation, you are chanting in the wrong place.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree. No you should not be considered racist. It is you right as an America.
My term for racist is someone who goes out and speak bad tords everyone else is race.
I dont denounce anyone elses race. I just want to have the same chances to live the American dream as anyone else.
I would always appologize to anyone who my be affended of my comments or actions.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
MR_E_Man: "Do you think it would be right to illegally enter Mexico and then walk around with hundreds of my fellow Americans waving the American flag, chanting "LONG LIVE THE UNITED STATES" and demanding the Mexican Government to give me rights in their country?"
Wasn't that what NAFTA was?!?! LOL.
Posted by hotwildflower on September 3, 2008 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You can't apologize to people who are offended by you flying a Mexican flag in the US and say you waive it proudly. You are contradicting yourself. You are not sorry for that and it is very offensive to many.
You are correct about the true meaning of a racist, but it cried out far too often.
Posted by BeaHappi on September 3, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Do you think it would be right to illegally enter Mexico and then walk around with hundreds of my fellow Americans waving the American flag, chanting "LONG LIVE THE UNITED STATES" and demanding the Mexican Government to give me rights in their country?"
Oh h*ll to the no!
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This Nation is diffent than any other Nation.
The last I herd I was not breaking the law if I had both the Mexican and American Flag.
That is what I believe and until anyone says that Im breaking the law then no harm no fawl.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Babyz, last I heard, Mexico benefited from NAFTA far more than we did. That's why their economy has grown more over the last few years than ours has.
That's also why Mexico got so freaked out a few months ago when the Presidential candidates started bringing up the subject of renegotiating the terms of NAFTA.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for all your comments.
The only time I may log in again is if I see this subject come up again.
BabyzDaddy_01 I love your comments. Take care and thank you for taking a stand to what you believe in. God Bless you and you family.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 4:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dr_Squires you must be very stupid.
Well waive at us next time you see us walking the streets.
If I new who you are I would make sure to waive at you.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just wait until you see us in congress.
Just like they said never will there be a black man as President of the United States.
Guess what haiters, Obama will be the first Black President.
Next you will start seeing more and more Hispanics in the Office. Yea!!!
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dr_Squires, please tell me you love America enough to do that to yourself, cause I can't wait to see the fireworks.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yea I bet both high_society and Dr_Squires grind there teeth thinking when Obama is elected as President of the United States.
I'm sure you both want McCain. Sorry but its not going to happend>
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree Mr_E_Man. high_society you and Dr_Squires should get together.
Quite stupid of a comment.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society let me ask you a question?
Do you think that anyone who puts on a military uniform and dies for our great nation does not have any decendents?
People die for the great nation in order for us to live free without anyone asking what God do we pray to or what culture we believe in.
I have never dissrespected this great nation. Too many people have lost their lives for us.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are the only one who is giving anyone a bad name.
I am giving my thoughts. Nothing wrong with that..
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What I am saying is as long as I am not breaking the law why cant I have both Mexican and American Flag.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I understood the analogy Squires was making, but it was a stupid one. He assumes that the same people who cringe at the sight of people chanting "Viva la Raza" on American streets also advocate our occupation of Iraq.
You know what they say... Assumption is the mother of all (mistakes).
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
On another note, some of these comments are causing me to feel like I'm losing brain cells. I better call it a day before I start to sound like Coach and Squires.
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 5:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach still can't decide if he is "us" America or "us" Mexico. Again Coach make up your mind who you are going to be loyal to. You keep jumping back and forth with each comment. Which is it?
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anyways high_society not everyone who is hispanic feel the way you feel.
Wow, from the way you talk I would have thought you where caucasian. I'm shocked...
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Why would you ask of I'm American of Mexican.
Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 3, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high-society, that was my point precisely. He's lumping all Americans together by suggesting that we all think its okay to occupy other countries.
I don't think its okay to be in Iraq and I don't think it's okay when some undocumented immigrants act like they are entitled here in the U.S.
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach, if you are responding to my post, read it again. If not, my bad. Also, replace "of" with "or" when you do.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
high_society the only one who talked about blowing themself up is you and mr Dr_Squires.
You agreed with Dr_Squires. Why?
DrcGrl I am Mexican/American. Maybe I cant write well but that plain english.
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You all have a good night. Despite how you feel about illegals.
I love everyone. I'm out!!!
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thanks for the correction DrcGrl....Goodnight!
Posted by coach04 on September 3, 2008 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
O'k high_society hopefully the next time I talk to you I will know what analogy is.
Posted by Freedom1 on September 3, 2008 at 6:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry to join this blog so late - just got home from work.
BabyzDaddy_01 on September 3, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. - a few corrections for you:
Illegals are not able to collect welfare - NO, BUT THEIR AMERICAN BORN CHILDREN AND AND SOMETIMES IT IS WHAT SUSTAINS THE ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD
Doesn't that mean that LEGAL CITIZENS are to blame for the drain on welfare? NO IT DOESN'T. THE MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS HERE RECEIVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN AID - EMERGENCY ROOM SERVICES, WELFARE FOR THEIR CHILDREN NOT TO MENTION FREE EDUCATION, FREE LUNCHES, SUBSIDIZED HOUSING AND ON AND ON IT GOES. ANY ONE REMEMBER THE YOUNG LADY (REPORTED LAST YEAR) WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE HERE ILLEGALY THAT IS RECEIVNG HER 4TH KIDNEY TRANSPLANT AND ANGRY THAT ANYONE WOULD THINK SHE WASN'T "ENTITLED" TO IT! TAKE A QUESS AT WHAT THAT COSTS!
Paying $700 for health care for your family is the premium that is increased by the insurance companies. TRUE - BUT IT IS USED TO OFFSET THE FREE OR LOW FEE SERVICES DOCTORS AND HOSPITALS HAVE TO PROVIDE TO THOSE WHO HAVE NO COVERAGE. THE MORE OF THEM, THE MORE INSURANCE COSTS FOR THE REST OF US.
The only difference is that illegals don't use the ER as freely as the legal citizens out of fear of getting deported. ABSOLUTE NONSENSE - HOSPITALS CAN'T ASK IF THEY ARE LEGAL OR NOT. THEY USE ER SERVICES BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY HEALTH CARE THEY CAN RECEIVE.
A large majority of American citizens are simply fed up with the affects of massive illegal immigration on their lives and those of their children. I'm not talking about the folks who hire them, I'm talking about those that have watched the quality of their lives and the lives of their children diminish because our elected officials were too busy securing their futures with special interest groups to care about enforcing our immigration laws. Poverty and illiteracy generates crime. We lived through it in the early 1800's when immigration laws were put into place to give our new immigrants time to assimilate and our citizens time to accept the diversity that it brings to their neighborhoods. The anger that appears in these posts is clear evidence that the majority of us have had enough. There is simply no option to reward the blatant violators of our immigration laws with our most valued treasure - citizenship! ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!
Posted by DrcGrl on September 3, 2008 at 6:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amen to that Freedom1!!!!!!
Posted by caokie on September 3, 2008 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Test
Posted by caokie on September 3, 2008 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have been reading this all day between picking up clients and charting. My employer would not like me posting here when I am suppose to be working. I am going to start out stating what I would make the immgration policies to be. I would start by sealing off the border except the legal points of entry. Then have everyone in this country be counted and their name taken down that includes me ,my family and all of you.If a person is illegal they must apply to stay here legally, they would pay fines any back taxes owned and NOT be allowed to sponsor anyone. We need to know who is in this country.We have that right. Anyone arrested after that will get 25 years in prison in their home country with the USA picking up the tab, then we know they will pay.I am not for changing the law in regards to anchor babies, if you are born in this country you are a citizen. But what I find intersting that the same people who agree with me will most likely disagree with the second part of that law, the equal protection clause. Which means that every one is to be treated the same in the eyes of the law. And we all know that is not true if you are here illegally. As for housing an illegal family can get public housing if only one family member has a social security number. That family member can be 1 month old. As for health care a illegal can get a discount off of the bill thur the self-pay program. They can also get emergency medi-cal. The kids who are here can get health care from the ACE for kids program.I guess the real problem I have with this issuse is the people who flee their home country because they wanted to better their lives and what do they do? But make the host country look like the one they fleed. Don't belive me take a drive to Fresno. It looks like a thrid world country. The last thing is I hope that everyone who posted here today will vote this year. Have a good night
Posted by vcsexplorer11 on September 3, 2008 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01,
You are so funny, I have a story for you.
Woman sues San Francisco for Sanctuary city policy after illegal that should have been deported after he was arrested several times, kills her whole family.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article...
If she wins the lawsuit this will be the beginning of thousands of lawsuits. What a country we live in when a illegal can sue a city for affordable housing , like the city of Fillmore.
Posted by gramagracie on September 3, 2008 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
h2odog and freedom...totally agree with you two. I bleed Red White and Blue, all the way. I am a caucasian, check your dictionary coach, lived through the segregation in Texas. I as an American of mexican decent was never discriminated. Arizona has a law in place sanctioning employers for hiring illegals. Some of those employers, of all races, have hired attorneys to repeal the law. Therefore, we as Arizona citizens have proposed a stricter law for these greedy employers that will be on the ballot this November. Just recently, Pierce who's platform was for strict border fence enforcement and employer sanctions won!
If the illegals love Mexico so much, go back and have them help you, with jobs, education and the like. Make the changes in your country,Mexico, because apparently you are not happy in the good old USA.
Posted by UCSBguy on September 4, 2008 at 12:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
coach after reading your post, i really feel sorry for you. You're misinformed and confused. You believe that mexican=illegal. Your post don't make sense and you're really ignorant.
"hard working illegals who want to get citizenship." so just because they're hardworking they're ok to cut the line ? is that what you're saying?
"should be some sort of channel soo that anyone who wants to come hear should be able to get citizenship." yes there's a process through legal immigration and not jumping the fence or paying a coyote to transport you and drop you off in San Diego.
You're really confused as to the definition of illegal immigrant.
"All we need to do is get our people to "VOTE". We will make a difference. We need to always pass the word. You can see with examples like Viragosa, Los Angeles. We need to put more of our people in the office."
So you're saying just put all mexicans in office even if they're not qualified? Sounds like domination right there.
"Ill tell you what N_Cash I hope that you dont mind living with us cause no way in hell are you going to get rid of us" WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY US? us as mexicans or us as illegal immigrants?
Posted by getreal on September 4, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Squires without todays military you would slowly be losing your freedom. Are you even a citizen??? You sound unintelligent and it makes me wonder.
Posted by FedUp on September 4, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach - I was going to let you go away in peace, but I have to go after you for one more thing. Now, if I am reading into your posts incorrectly, I apologize.
You have said repeatedly the word "us" when referring to illegal aliens. When I read that, I understand that to mean that you are also an illegal alien, and not a US citizen. If this is true, please do not refer to yourself as a "mexican-american". This is absolutely insulting to all of the true mexican-american citizens of the United States.
Please leave this country immediately, and go about getting your citizenship the correct way.
and I would be interested to see what team you coach. I know many, many coaches and club directors around the area, and I know they would like to make sure they have not hired an illegal alien to coach their "kids".
Posted by BeaHappi on September 4, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Camparent101...I totally agree!
Posted by HereWeGoAgain on September 4, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
FedUp- I was reading what you posted on gangs yesterday. Yes, MS-13 is international now. A friend of mine vacationed in Greece and said he was he was shocked to see MS-13 tagged on a wall by the beach! They are spreading like roaches. Just another reason to secure our border. So much bad **** is creeping in. People can argue till they are blue in the face about illegal immigration not being such a bad thing and how the U.S. should help them out but I keep coming across articles on crimes committed by illegal aliens. If there is no paper trail to track a person what is to keep them from committing a crime here and then running? People don’t seem to appreciate things when they don’t have to work for them. Citizenship should be earned and is a privilege to have. People need to be screened in order to come in and if they have gang tattoos then they shouldn’t be let in. It is like letting a known terrorist in. Yes, I know U.S. citizens commit crimes but why do we want other countries problems? The U.S. has enough to worry about! Just my opinion.
Posted by kelly13 on September 4, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
As you can tell by the number of comments here, this is an important issue for all of us. Yet to say we hear little about it is an understatement. We hear nothing about illegal immigration from either side. I understand that not all of the United States is as affected as southern California...yet..but to pretend the problem doesn't exist is unacceptable.
These candidates need to say if they are willing to build the fence, secure the border and enforce our laws. I don't think that is asking too much.
Posted by Franko on September 4, 2008 at 2:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Coach, where are you, I need another headache so I can go home sick?
Hamskid-Someone previously posted that illegal immigration is like an elephant in the room. Both Dems and Republicans know about it, but no one wants to acknowledge the problem...So true.
It's all about the votes..
Posted by JmeDavis on September 4, 2008 at 2:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
coach04...you said "Two questions that I have for you: Did you watch the Olympics? Did you see the athetes who are from hear representing other countrys? Why was nothing said there? Sorry three questions."
1. You're a coach but you can't spell athlete?
2. Athletes who live here but represent another country in the Olympics either have dual citizenship or they are here on a guest program such as a work visa...and they can come back to the US legally when the Olympics are over. Illegal immigrants in the US do not have US citizenship nor are they here on a visa, that's what makes them illegal.
Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on September 4, 2008 at 2:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
this is a a never ending battle, with my comment just now it is at well over 300 comments.
My question is if Illegals are such a huge problem why isn't the government doing something about it? They didn't think twice about sending thousands of troops to war?
I am a U.S. Citizen born of Mexican parents, and although love my people I do disagree with crossing the border illegaly, but do understand why they do it, if they waited in line for there turn to come to the U.S. to work, there turn would never come, and if they had the luxury to wait, they probably wouldn't be seeking to come here and work. people are coming because no work is available because they are looking for a better life for them and there family.
I understand that when you are starving and have nothing back home you do what ever it takes, do you honestly think that they don't try as hard as possible to find a job back in there countries?
Do you honestly think they want to come to a foreign country where they aren't wanted by so many, and realizing that they might not even make it across the border? Or how long it will be before they go back and see there family?
Man I cry when my son cries when he wants me to stay and doesn't want me to go to work, I can't go a week without seeing my parents, although my husband pisses me off sometimes, I can't imagine being apart from him. When life isn't good, you do anything for your family. Or at least I know I would.
Posted by HereWeGoAgain on September 4, 2008 at 3:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
daugtherofimmigrant- I am Mexican- American and I know how hard life can be. My parents have worked hard to have what they have. They have NEVER received any kind of public assistance or been in jail. They pay taxes and have owned their home for 40 years. They speak fluent English and do not wave the Mexican flag around. We have never demanded any special treatment because we are minorities. I speak fluent Spanish and I am a very proud of my roots. But what I see around me when I go into the Hispanic communities makes me very angry. I see illegal aliens who feel that they are owed something by society. I see gang bangers hanging out on the street and see negative things about my fellow Hispanics on TV. If I am outraged by this how do you expect Americans to feel? Do you think they care that these people would have been starving if they had not come here? It is normal for people not to want their way of life disrupted. People only see the bad when it comes to immigration because the bad affects them so much. People wouldn’t notice if people learned to assimilate. Why don’t we ever here complaints about the Japanese or the French? And it’s kind of stupid for someone to come here illegally and make such a spectacle of themselves. If I were an illegal alien I would try real hard to blend in so that no one would know. I would learn English and I wouldn’t be waving a foreign flag around or allow my kids to look like hoodlums. When people see neighborhoods that look like third world countries what do you expect them to think of the people who live there? And the goverment does nothing becuase it is such a touchy subject. when there are immigration raids the ACLU suddenly becomes involved saying the rights of the illegal immigrants are being violated. only in the good ol US of A can an illegal immigrant have so many rights!
Posted by UCSBguy on September 4, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
miaculpa well said. You don't see the spotlight on European illegal immigrants because they blend in. Yes, they probably commit crimes and other atrocities but they don't march in the street and demand rights and wave their european flags.
I guess it's different from hispanics because we cater to them. If you go to the DMV, you'll see mostly spanish pamphlets. Everywhere is spanish so there's no incentive of learning english.
I should go to China and start telling them to learn english and cater to my needs.
Posted by leahb78_1999 on September 5, 2008 at 9:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)
UCSBguy, you will probably find that a good number of people in China already do speak English. Most other countries are forced to learn it in their schools. Unfortunately, we don't make people in our own country learn it, thereby setting them up for failure.
Posted by HereWeGoAgain on September 5, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
True, many other countries require it. I can imagine that it would be easier for them when they get here. There is an article in the L.A. times about the racial divide in San Juan Capistrano. This is from the article ->Del Obispo and Kinos---a "are next to each other," she said in Spanish. "Why aren't white children attending Kinos---a?" This woman is complaining in Spanish! She is offended that they don’t want to attend her kid’s school. This is from one of the white parents ->In July, Kim McCarthy, whose daughter attends Marco Forster, complained at a board meeting that the school is operated "as if it is a Mexican public school." Now who do you think is going to be accommodated? It’s all about being politically correct. I wouldn’t even want my son to go to that kind of school! Someone needs to tell them to shut up!
Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on September 5, 2008 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
miaculpa -as you were discribing your family and yourself, I felt as if you were discribing my own.
As mentioned I also come from Mexican Parents, they are both citizens now, never have asked the GOV for any assistance nor have I. they own several homes here in the county and others as well all through working there @ss off in the fields. I am very proud of my parents and there accomplishments, they are proud as well because they know that they have accomplished so much more than other outstanding citizens. :O)
I couldn't agree with you more about your frustrations, those are mine as well.
How do I expect Americans to feel? Probably the same way you and I do, frustrated, upset, angry, but you and I probably feel embarrased as well or at least I do because those are our people.
If you read my post I said I also did not agree with illegal crossing, but I did understand why they do it. I never said I approved of it nor asked anyone to do so.
The only difference is that I do not get upset only with illegals I am upset with all of those citizens who are living the easy life, you know welfare, hud, medical and everything else they can get ahold of.
What truly pisses me off is a person I see quite often now in SP, she drives an Infiniti "M" and pays with her foodstamp now better known as Welfare credit card.
Not to long ago, I saw a man, you may all have seen him once or twice, he stands at the Ventura Target, I tested him, I offered to buy him lunch, because that is what his board said, "please help, starving vet" or something to that effect. I went up to him and he said he would rather have the money. So I guess he wasn't starving after all? Or at least not for food.
Another lady stands at Target she drags her kids around one of them a baby. She is white, she also carrys her little board, claiming to be hungry, I offered her a job and she told me she made mor money this way. WTF???
My point is the GOV isn't doing anything about this, or they might be but very little. I have told this story before my boss called DHS to report a company with 100's of illegals working in T.O. DHS came to our office and they basically said they couldn't do anything because of lack of staff, yet we have thousands of soldiers at war.
So they (illegals) will keep coming in until they are stopped.
Posted by biorkman on September 6, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Republicans are afraid to touch the issue because they don't want to alienate the hispanic community. Democrats don't want to touch it because illegal immigration is just adding to their ranks. It's funny to me that politicians are willing to allow our country to go down the tubes just for political gain.
I don't think the majority of people have any problem with legal immigration. The problem is with people coming here illegally, not learning the language, and draining the system. I heard recently that over half of the people in California prisons were illegal immigrants. It must be stopped before every city in the state is crime ridden and gang plagued like Oxnard.
Article discussions on this site are to support community debates of issues related to our stories and editorials.
Discussions should not stray from the subject of the story or editorial.
We do not allow the following:
- Posts that degrade others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation or disability.
- Disparaging remarks, abusive language or obscene comments.
- Threats, whether obvious or veiled.
We reserve the right to delete threads and/or ban users for these or other reasons we deem necessary.
Opinions are the sole responsibility of the person posting them. You agree not to post comments that are off topic, defamatory, obscene, abusive, threatening or an invasion of privacy. Violators may be banned. Click here for our full user agreement.
There are 261 comments to this article.
Comments are found beneath the Yahoo! ad below.