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Candidates agree on reforming immigration
Neither talks about it on campaign trail
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More from NationalWASHINGTON — They may disagree over the war in Iraq or the fundamentals of the economy or any number of other pressing issues.
But when it comes to immigration reform — a topic so volatile that, not long ago, it touched off massive street protests across the country — there's not a lot of difference in the positions staked out by presidential candidates Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz.
"It's pretty much the same," said David Rodriguez, a Latino activist from Ventura.
Indeed, immigration reform may be the singular issue of the 2008 presidential campaign in which Obama and McCain agree the most.
Both want to secure the nation's borders and voted in 2006 to build a 700-mile fence along the southern boundary with Mexico. Both argue that legal status should be offered to immigrants who entered the United States illegally as long as they learn English, pay fines and pass background checks.
Both promise to crack down on employers who hire undocumented workers. But both also favor increasing the number of people who can enter the country legally to meet the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.
There's also this: Neither candidate has devoted much time or energy on immigration reform while on the campaign trail, much to the dismay of those on both sides of the debate.
"Neither party seems to want to get close to this immigration issue right now because it's such an inflammatory thing," said Bill Glenn, a former Border Patrol administrator who lives in Santa Paula and supports enforcement of immigration laws. "It's risky territory."
'Risk losing a lot of votes'
Rodriguez, who favors comprehensive immigration reform, said both candidates are "purposely evading" the issue.
"Neither political party wants to alienate voters since Americans are so divided on the issue," said Rodriguez, who serves as California deputy director of the League of United Latin American Citizens. "They don't want to risk losing a lot of votes either way, either from the right or from Hispanics, who we think are going to be key to the election."
It wasn't always like this.
McCain co-wrote legislation with Sen. Ted Kennedy, D-Mass., in 2005 that would have dramatically changed the nation's immigration laws.
The bill included many of the same proposals now supported by McCain and Obama: more border security, a get-tough approach on employers who hire undocumented workers, a pathway to citizenship for immigrants who entered the country illegally.
But the McCain-Kennedy legislation ran into fierce resistance, especially from McCain's fellow Republicans, and died without ever being put to a vote.
McCain has taken the scars from that battle with him on the campaign trail. As the GOP nominee for president, he now says he understands that Americans want the nation's borders secured before they will embrace comprehensive immigration reform.
The proposal he's now pushing calls for shoring up the nation's borders first through the use of unmanned aircraft and spending more money on training facilities, staff and equipment.
Governors of border states would be required to certify that their borders are secured. Only then would other reforms, such as allowing undocumented immigrants to obtain citizenship, take effect.
'He's backing off'
Obama also supports additional personnel, infrastructure and technology to shore up the borders but has not said explicitly that must happen first.
McCain's border-security-first approach has led to some grumbling that he is backing away from his commitment to comprehensive reform to keep from alienating voters whom he'll need in the presidential election.
"McCain had some compassion going for him, but he's running for president, so he's backing off," said Hank Lacayo, a Newbury Park resident who sits on the board of El Concilio del Condado de Ventura, a nonprofit Latino service organization.
But Rodriguez said his group doesn't see it that way.
"In fact," Rodriguez said, "our private meetings with him have been just the opposite. Every time he has committed to doing something, he does it, but he has just been unable to pass it in the United States Senate."
The rest of McCain's and Obama's immigration platform is similar, give or take some subtle nuances.
McCain, for example, promises to implement a temporary guest-worker program that would allow immigrants to enter the country to work in jobs that employers can't fill. Specifically, he pledges to reform caps on the H-1B visa program so that they can rise and fall in response to market conditions. He also vows to increase the number of available green cards to reflect employer and employee demand.
Obama's plan doesn't explicitly mention a guest-worker program, but does call for increasing the number of people allowed in the United States legally to a level that keeps families together and meets the demand for jobs that employers cannot fill.
Hurting chances for reform
As for the workplace, both McCain and Obama favor using an electronic verification system to help employers determine whether their employees are eligible to work in the United States.
Obama also argues that the United States should do more to promote economic development in Mexico, which he believes would keep immigrants from illegally crossing the border in search of jobs.
The two candidates' almost-identical positions on immigration may actually be hurting the chances for comprehensive reform, regardless of who moves into the White House in January, said Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies.
Because their positions are similar, neither candidate is pressing the issue, and because there is no debate over immigration reform, "there is no shaping of public opinion toward their position," said Camarota, whose Washington-based group favors limits on immigration.
The end result will likely mean that the candidate who wins won't be able to claim his election was a mandate for comprehensive reform. That, Camarota said, will make it hard to get a comprehensive bill through Congress.
"It leaves us basically where we were," he said, "a president who wants it, a Democratic Senate who wants it and (Congress) members who are terrified to vote for it."
Posted by twbeem on October 20, 2008 at 6:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
MRSMYTH it seems that since prop 187 was passed (then thrown out by a judge) all we have been doing is sending illegal immigrants to the head of the line. The law is the law and the executive branch is responsible for enforcing the law.
Posted by rebel123 on October 20, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
H1B Visas don't need a cap removed, they need to be STOPPED! This is just a quick trip to the front of the line for foreigners to take tech jobs away from U.S. citizens and keep the wages low accordingly.
Posted by Hueneme1961 on October 20, 2008 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
to me its the biggest issue. Yeah and what happen to 187 It won big time!!!!!! so much for our votes.
Posted by lawabider on October 20, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
foreigners don't automatically get the right to vote when they arrive here ILLEGALLY!! Probably why 187 got flushed down the commode... Meanwhile, close our borders, sort out and send back the criminals and we'll all be just fine!
Posted by kelly13 on October 20, 2008 at 8:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with all of the above comments. I think most of us agree the problem of illegal immigration is at the top of our list.
Not only is it being ignored by both parties, nothing is getting done. What about that fence that was being built? It passed, the money was funded, but it didn't get built. Everyone agrees we need more border security but we don't get it. Some places have stepped up to enforce the laws but other places declare themselves sanctuary cities. So if an illegal is uncomfortable in one place, they are invited to another.
Insanity. We need to keep up the pressure and keep writing or calling our elected officals and let them know that even if they will not talk about illegal immigration, we haven't forgotten about it and expect some action to protect us.
Posted by Rocket81 on October 20, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I just hope whoever gets in will get very serious about cleaning the mess up. One immigrant at a time, will take time, but is well worth the efforts, considering the shape of this country.
Posted by dgreene on October 20, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I totally agree with you MadAsHell. We need to send these illegals home. We don't even have enough jobs for Americans. I can't believe they don't deport them after they serve their time when they get charged with a felony. That is unbelievable.
Posted by at8man on October 20, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
McCantDB8, you are one taco short of a combination plate.
Posted by mamaof2 on October 20, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
they should make them learn english... i know a guy who's been here 15 yrs and hardly knows eniglish wtf? and it drives me nuts when i go apply for a job and they say bilingual preferred or mandatory... even if i am more qualified for the position i would not get it just because i dont speak spanish.
Posted by hotwildflower on October 20, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They don't care and even if they did, they wouldn't do anything about it because they are so intimidated by illegal immigrants and their supporters.
Terrorism at it's best, just intimidate everyone and throw out the word racist to get your way.
Posted by bugmenot on October 20, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
1) Send the illegals home
2) Close our borders until immigration is fixed
3) Fix immigration to America's advantage
I agree with those points above, however i do not believe it is even feasible.
I'm a constitutionalists and believe in my rights as principal more than anything.
If somebody asked me for my proof of citizenship because I got a good tan and ventured to Oxnard, you best believe me I'd go bezerk at that person, LEO or not.
How do you find the estimated 11,000,000 illegal immigrants and send them back WITHOUT violating MY rights? Who pays? Who stops them from coming back? What about the void in 11,000,000 people just being gone? How do you "close" the borders? There's no fence tall enough.
The logistics of something like this is mind blowing. I don't think we'll come to an amicable solution until there are some serious compromises from the "no amnesty" to "amnesty" crowds.
Oh can refrain from the "cut off their limbs" and "tattoo their faces" as serious solutions to this problem? I'm a constitutionalists.
Posted by mamaof2 on October 20, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
well the reason the racists card is thrown out there so much is because there is alot of racism in this country but it probably thrown out there more then it should be.
anyway i dont see what the point of hiring more border patrol and more training will do if the patrol's we have already arent even doing there job. if someone gets caught crossing illeglas over they end up letting them go just so they can attempt to do it all over again. why dont they just arrest them?
Posted by bugmenot on October 20, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
if we arrest them, how long is their sentence? who pays for it? the country of origin will not pay for it. i could imagine that would be expensive.
Posted by hotwildflower on October 20, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
here's my personal counter to the racist BS.
I am a white female, married and two kids with a hispanic man. My husband wasn't born in this country but has since become an American citizen and I can tell you...he is FAR more offended by the demanding of rights these illegals throw out there. If he has his way, he would round them up with his truck and personally drive them back himself.
Posted by bugmenot on October 20, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ImMadAsHellAndImNotGoingToTakeItAnymore-
Those are good suggestions, I like them. Maybe not the workplace raids, but the overall strategy.
I'll give my two cents.
I think a "framework" needs to be put in place by the federal government. This framework needs to allow for a centralized detention and deportation method. This framework would allow a state to pass off an illegal immigrant to the federal government for a) detention if a sentence needs to be carried out for a crime then b) deportation to their country of origin.
Each state would then get to decide what was within their laws to determine whether or not to pass off an illegal immigrant to the federal government.
By letting the federal government deal with the issues that manifest when crossing state and country borders it would allow the states to focus on their immigration problem and determine how aggressively to pursue the problem based on their voters.
The states are currently in a "bind" and if the federal government gives the states a method, i believe the states will step up and begin to handle the problem accordingly.
What is good for one state, may not be the best for another. Again, I'm a constitutionalists. :)
Posted by mamaof2 on October 20, 2008 at 10:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
i was talking about arresting the american citizens who are crossing the illegals... you would be suprised to on how many are crossing illegals over and they do it over and over again because they make good money doing it and if they get caught the border patrol only scares them then lets them go. if the patrol really wants to be strict that day they will give out fines which the people can pay off after one day of work. our border patrol is a joke, so why hire more when they arent going to be doing there job?
Posted by hotwildflower on October 20, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
mamaof2, that's the argument everyone has, except regarding the laws. Why make new laws when they aren't enforcing the current laws we have.
They turn a blind eye to this problem and it's gotten to the point of just being completely out of control.
I am all for someone coming here to make a better life for themselves, but legally! Come legally and I say "welcome!" It's the illegal that so many have an issue with.
Posted by bugmenot on October 20, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you're a landlocked state it's hard to deport without some federal help. Also the costs would be high, especially for a small town with a problem they want to solve. So some type of federal help will be needed there to ensure success.
Give American citizens severe jail time for helping illegals cross the borders, no brainer.
As far as legally coming here, my girlfriends aunt applied as a French citizen in 1990. While she waited, she met a man, got married, had 3 kids. About a month ago (18 years later), her immigration papers finally went through and she can come to America but won't. If she came illegally, she probably would have been a citizen by now.
Cause and effect. Just like you don't win the war on drugs until you win the (nonexistent) war on poverty.
True immigration reform would involve attacking problems like the economic situation in Mexico, allowing a working pathway for citizenship that doesn't take 18 years. And more things I'm unqualified to even list.
Posted by bugmenot on October 20, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
ImMadAsHellAndImNotGoingToTakeItAnymore-
I don't think it's possible to enforce the current laws because the federal government is a roadblock.
Why is that chica still in the Church in Simi? That seems pretty straight forward, but the local PD cannot act. Their hands are tied by the feds.
I liken it to medical marijuana. California voters passed prop 215 and senate bill 420; but the feds still step on the states toes. In the case of immigration, the feds haven't acted so the states are like "what do we do...how do we do this?".
How does Simi Valley PD send somebody back to, let's say, Colombia? Without federal help, they don't.
Imagine the costs per person. Imagine the cost to the city of Oxnard. It would be ridiculous. The devil is in the details.
Posted by bugmenot on October 20, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I guess my wording "attacking problems like the economic situation in Mexico" is inappropriate. I should replace the word attacking with understanding.
It's not our responsibility. we don't have to do beans to their economic situation. but in the same respect, we shouldn't do anything to adversely affect their economy. the US cannot solve Mexico's economic problems, only Mexico can solve that. We need to focus on our own economy. However, Mexico's economy is part of the United States immigration problem.
Even though some may want all the illegals gone today, pretend like you care for them as people and you'll get much further.
Posted by NottaNewbieNameGame on October 20, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America or SPP for short is pretty much NAFTA on steriods and explains the current agenda for dealing with immigration.
And it appears that McCain will overtly, and Obama covertly will work to advance the SPP agenda.
I highly recommend that people visit http://www.spp.gov/index.asp and READ-READ-READ.
Can you say MexAmeriCanada?
Posted by Freedom1 on October 20, 2008 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Reform? What reform would they be referring to other than ignoring our current immigration laws and granting citizenship to those that violated them. Trouble is all those "jobs that Americans won't do" (quote from President Bush) are going away faster than they arrived! And now we're stuck with ~11 million illegal aliens and the need to support their American born children and, by the way, learn Spanish to get a good Federal, State or City job. I think Obama ought to donate some of that $6 million dollars he's received to the cause the believes in - public assistance for these kids. McCain didn't get enough to worry about! Just a thought.
Posted by Tanker on October 21, 2008 at 5:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here are some stats compiled by the LA newspaer:
40% of illegal aliens in LA work for cash and do not pay taxes.
95% of murder warrants in LA are for illegal immigrants.
75% of most wanted list in LA are illegal immigrants.
2/3 of all births in LA are to illegal immigrants and paid by Medical.
35% of California prison inmates are illegal immigrants.
60% of HUD properties in LA are rented to illegal immigrants.
21 Spanish only speaking radio stations in LA.
Of 10.2 million residents in LA, 5.1 million speak English and 3.9 million speak Spanish.
Less that 2% of illegal immigrants work in agriculture.
29% of illegal immigrants are on welfare.
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