Posted by AnnaWhaat on November 22, 2008 at 5:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Strange that the relatives in the house heard the shots but the witness's didn't?
Anyhow I do send my Condolences to the family and friends of this young man.

Posted by handyhood on November 22, 2008 at 6:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Normally they would tell us if this is gang related, and most of us assume it is. Half of the murders in Ventura County are in Oxnard, but you have to consider that Oxnard is the largest City in the County.

Posted by newshound on November 22, 2008 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's much harder to kill someone without a gun. I hope Barrack Obama bans them all except in the hands of police officers and the military.

Posted by phantom on November 22, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Newshound; Wake up!!! Do you yeally think that a ban on guns would make any city better? Hello!!! we are talking about criminals, scum that don't care about the law. Right now the criminals at least have to think twice about breaking into someone's home as they too may be armed and prepared to protect thier life and property.

Condolences to the family...

Posted by Adam_Monroe on November 22, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jovany Cahuantzi
Photo:
http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq...

Myspace page:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?...

Gang and drug infested Myspace photos:
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index...

My condolences go out to the friends and family directly affected....

But in all honesty, doesn't seem like too big a loss to the community as a whole...

Posted by simidiver on November 22, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

newshound ... i agree with phantom ... your view is simplistic and incorrect ... all you would do make it even easier for these scum to terrorize.

Posted by US_Citizen on November 22, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My condolences as well. However, sometimes when things like this happen, it is always the friends and family who say, "he is a good person"-"he doesn't do drugs"-"he never hurt anyone". Then you check out links like Adam_Monroe just posted. If this guy worked as satallite installer, I would hate to have him in my home. I wouldn't be surprised to find out this was gang related, or some kind or retaliation.

Posted by robert21805 on November 22, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

i dont know but it does seem like a tagging krew homicide check out the myspace pics "HA krew" is a tagging crew thats been around a long time oxnard pd should already know that,

Posted by kind1 on November 22, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry to hear that maybe an innocent victim did not know that "lookouts" for gang activity whistle to each other to give a heads up, and actually do it to call each other out, as in ,"I got your stuff, meet me outside..." Sad. You can not even walk out your door to see what the noise is. He may have walked out while someone was doing a deal...
http://www.streetgangs.com/injunction...

Posted by kind1 on November 22, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A better explaination of the whistling related to gangs...
look for the paragraph "Other forms of gang communication"
http://www.operationnogangs.org/placa...

Posted by steveb36701 on November 22, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If Osama Obama were to even try banning all guns, he would find himself on the losng end of a serious impeachment proceeding. There's a little thing called the 2nd amendment.

Posted by handyhood on November 22, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

OK. His myspace shows him drunk, smoking dope, and flashing gang signs. This explains a lot. No harm, no foul!

Posted by vmn1213 on November 22, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MY HEART GOES OUT TO THE FAMILY!!YOU GUYS THAT TALK s--- ON THE STAR ABOUT THESE PEOPLE, TAKE ANOTHER LOOK AT HIS MY SPACE, HIS LAST LOG IN WAS 1-25-08. HE MIGHT OF BEEN CHANGING HIS LIFE.

Posted by nojustice_justus on November 22, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Adam_Monroe--would you consider your death as not too big a loss to the community as a whole?...just curious.

I can't see how you can come to such a cursory conclusion. Especially for somebody you first heard of a few days ago.

handyhood--your second sentence puts things into proper perspective. A well thought out and very cohesive post.

Posted by nojustice_justus on November 22, 2008 at 1:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

annawhaat--there was no mention of witnesses outside and there wasn't any mention as to witnesses not hearing shots....just an FYI.

"Witnesses said they did not hear any argument or voices before the shots were fired, police reported."

Posted by Adam_Monroe on November 22, 2008 at 1:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I really couldn't care less what people think of me in death...but at least I'm doing all that I can to do good by good law-abiding citizens in life...if I see someone breaking into a stranger's car, you can bet that I'm going to call 805-385-7740 to make sure that the a$$h0le that's doing it get's caught...not because I'm nosy or a busy-body, but because it seems to me that in this day and age (and in this city especially!) it has come down to "us vs. them." "Us" being the good, hard-working, law-abiding citizens and (most of) the Oxnard PD, and "Them" being the scum that think they have the right to steal from those of us that work hard for are homes, cars, and personal possessions. "Them" being the trash that think that they can stop anybody on the street at a whim and demand wallets, cell phones, and jewelry. "Them" being the wussies with a capital "P" that come around at night and spray paint and write all over the walls, sidewalks and street signs claiming areas and property that DO NOT belong to them! If WE do not stick together cohesively and WE allow them to do as they please to US, then THEY win...

By this guy using drugs, claiming a street gang, associating with "thugs and wannabe thugs" (he was obviously one of the two himself), do you really think that he didn't go out to any of our neighborhoods at least once or twice and write "HAK" on our neighbor's walls? You think he wouldn't get into a couple of brawls at a park where your children play? If you had a laptop bag sitting on your passenger seat, do you think he or one of his associates would pass up the chance to take ten seconds out of their day to do a quick "smash and grab?"

All I'm saying is that if in death, these are the things that he (and others like him) will no longer be able to do, then I stop short of saying "good riddance" only out of respect for the departed.

Posted by ox4me on November 22, 2008 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Adam_Monroe,
I agree with you 100%.You are completely on target.

Posted by mari on November 22, 2008 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Once again my condolence to the family, i can't imagine the pain you are going through, BUT i must agree with Adam_Monroe.. what he is saying is 100% true!!! and last but not least WHEN ARE THESE TEENS/YOUNG ADULTS GOING TO STOP BEING SOMETHING THEY AREN'T!!!! I MEAN WHO DO YOU GUYS NEED TO SHOW OFF TO!!! CLAIM YOUR FAMILY YOUR ROOTS, BUT A F... CREW, A STREET?? YOU WEREN'T BORN WITH IT AND NOW YOU DIE WITH OUT IT!!!!

Posted by ironwoman on November 22, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I usually don't go on myspace but I was curious about this young man. It's too bad. What a sad way to be.

Posted by richard on November 22, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Don't forget they banned handguns in Washington DC and gun violence and murders increased. So this proves that banning guns will NOT lower crime. All it will mean is criminals will continue having guns, but not law abiding citizens.

Posted by Touchdown on November 22, 2008 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Newshound - Guns are illegal in Mexico - that sure has fixed the murder problem down there.

Posted by manolovta on November 22, 2008 at 5:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let the good people carry guns and let the scum gives a right to use them and watch crime go down one thug @ a time.

Posted by just_a_thought on November 22, 2008 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Makes me sad to see that my birthplace and the beautiful town that I grew up in and enjoyed so much raising my family in has turned into such a slum. I will always miss what it was but have no desire to ever go back to what it is now.

Posted by MoMmA07 on November 22, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My condolences go out to Jovany's family. I wasnt related to him nor was i one of his friends, but i did go 2 school with him and have a few classes with him. And let me tell you. He was a great repectful guy. You can waste all the time you want finding all these bad pics of him but that was not him 24/7.... 365...
Still dont understand tho... how can the police not see that its "graffiti" related... this whole "beef" with these tagging crews is getting out of hand.. First it was the son and the mother... now jovany is the victim....

Rest In Paradise JovanY!!!!!!!

Posted by rip_harasr on November 22, 2008 at 6:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i agree with vmn1213
if y00 did check the date he last went on myspace it was in january this year what if he was trying to change his life around .

but just want to say
r.i.p jovany
my prayers are with you and your family

Posted by nojustice_justus on November 22, 2008 at 6:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

just_a_thought--where do you live now? There must not be ANY crime there it would seem.

Posted by d_stroy on November 22, 2008 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

well o well, an HAK' er! you get what you give. these dudes murdered my friend, in front of his house, sounds familiar. im in no way happy of this but im not surprised one bit. HA has a reputation in oxnard for shooting and running, all good things come to an end huh Ha!!!

Posted by milomutt on November 22, 2008 at 7:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Spray paint your way to hell.

Posted by VOPatrol on November 22, 2008 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Instead of banning guns, how about we go back to the ways of the old west, where everyone carries a gun. I'd sure think twice about robbing someone knowing there's a good chance he has a gun and can shoot back. Reagan called it Mutual Assured Destruction. Seemed to work.

Posted by just_a_thought on November 22, 2008 at 8:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

nojustice_justus - You must have missread my comment....no where did I say there was NO crime or ANY crime for that matter, where I currently live. But I will say that the only sirens I have heard since being here have been few and far between and they were only in response to car accidents or medical responses. And in the 3+ years I have been here there has NOT been 1 drug or gang-related shooting or stabbing. I understand your wanting to defend where you choose to live but please don't fool yourself into believing that that bu**sh** goes on in every city or town.....IT DOES NOT. Oh, to answer your question, I currently live in the mid-west and would gladly put up with snow/cold winters than ducking everytime I walk out my front door.

Posted by UCSBguy on November 22, 2008 at 10:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

just_a_thought you live in the mid-west where the population is 30? The more people, the more crime.

Posted by nancy_4ever on November 22, 2008 at 11:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My heart goes out to these youngsters. But the truth is, "you live by the sword, you die by the sword." It's all "cool" when they're rapping the dirt, but it's a different thing when they're being buried in it...
My sincerest condolences.

Posted by PostMaster on November 23, 2008 at 12:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I BELIEVE HE WAS THE INTENDED TARGET. I'M GLAD HIS MOM AND OTHER INNOCENT PEOPLE WERE SPARED BY THIS EVIL ACT. "THOU SHALL NOT KILL"

Posted by live_for_purpose on November 23, 2008 at 1:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

UCSBguy--Look at the crime rate, not just the total number of crimes. Other than big cities with a lot of trashy people, the Midwest is pretty safe due to people with traditional, work-hard, respect others attitude.

Adam--You are right on!

newshound--Please learn how to spell the name of the President-elect. And remember the 2nd amendment. No one protecting my house except Smith & Wesson and me. Oh, and my guardian angel--the ultimate security.

Posted by just_a_thought on November 23, 2008 at 7:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

UCSBguy: If one's choice is to live in a "safe" environment then the population shouldn't be an issue. However, in reference to your sarcastic remark...we have more than 30 people living in our city.

Posted by CocoBorrego on November 23, 2008 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jovany WAS using and dealing. He knew this was coming and the police knew this was coming. His Dad knew what was going on and didn't stop it.
It was only a matter of time.

May you rest in peace Jovany.
My condolences to the Cahuantzi family.

Posted by UCSBguy on November 23, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

live_for_purpose like chicago perhaps? Where there's no gangs and violence right or St Louis? the most dangerous city in the US that surpassed detroit?

Posted by CaMGirl805 on November 23, 2008 at 6:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I knew Jovany aka Snowman and he was a very sweet guy and a ladies man. and He was very "F**kin Cute" anyone who knows him know what I refer too :)

Always in our hearts!
Rip snowman aka Hate you will be missed my many!!!!

Posted by UCSBguy on November 24, 2008 at 12:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I knew Jovany aka Snowman and he was a very sweet guy and a ladies man. and He was very "F**kin Cute" anyone who knows him know what I refer too :)

Always in our hearts!
Rip snowman aka Hate you will be missed my many!!!!
"

So he has three names? Jovany, Snowman, and Hate?
I know right.. if you're cute, you don't deserve to get shot at.

Posted by gramagracie on November 24, 2008 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by gramagracie on November 24, 2008 at 6:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Does Oxnard need more officers? Probably, but until the ACLU gets out of the picture the officers have their hands tied. Everytime the gang unit tries to enforce the "swoop and scoop" (that's my name for it, not the officers) all the parents cry fowl. Their little darling was man handled by the OPD. If the young man was in a gang, big IF because I don't know him, the OPD needs to swoop and scoop ALL the rival gangstas. Obtain a search warrant, go kick down the little darlings doors, turn evey mattress, closet, couch whatever else they need to search. I guarantee the little darlings have stash, guns or something to take them in. But like I said it is hard to fight "terrorists" because OPD has to fight a politically correct enforcement. It appears to me that in Oxnard these "terrorists are a protected species".

The citizens of Oxnard could start a Guardian Angel type program..Neighborhood watch volunteers have always been told not to interfer with the criminal activity...the Guardian Angels were more like a vigilante group. Just a thought. Oops, almost forgot the most important part...BUY A GUN..or two! Obtain the proper paper, buy from a gun dealer..

Posted by kind1 on November 24, 2008 at 7:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Adam_Monroe I don't know what city your direct call number is for...
805-Ventura is 339-4400
Ventura County Sheriffs is
805-646-1414
anyone else want to provide direct lines to dispatch where you can call anonymously, without your name and address coming up? They are programmed into my cell phone cuz of where I live and friend who is in trouble now with a pscycho bothering her...
educated yourselves to protect yourselves better.

Posted by mamaof2 on November 24, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

every one has a right to there own opinion and yes people will say it over and over again "this is a discussion forum and if you dont like what you are seeing then get out" but how stupid do some of you people sound giving your condolences to this guys family and then turning around and bashing him saying "he had it coming to him" and "he was a drug addict". what is the point of sending your sympathy if you have none? why cant u choose? either talk ur crap like u have a right too or shut ur trap and send your condolences if u really mean it.

Posted by Miss_SoCal on November 24, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Those who say guns should be banned are completely ignorant...guns don't kill people, people kill people! I think it should be like in most parts of the south where all citizens can legally carry guns. Most people wouldn't be dumb enough to commit various crimes if they knew anyone around them could be strapped. And what about home protection? I can't imagine NOT having a gun for home protection while living in Oxnard! If you think guns should be outlawed, I suggest you take a gun safety class at Shooters Paradise. They are so informative and can show you how, when used correctly, guns can save lives rather than take them.

Posted by Adam_Monroe on November 24, 2008 at 10:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Save these numbers into your cell phones people!! If you see a crime in progress, need to report suspicious activity, or require the dispatch of an officer these are the numbers you will call.

Oxnard PD:
385-7740

Ventura PD:
650-8010

Camarillo PD
654-9511

Thousand Oaks PD:
654-9511

Santa Paula PD:
525-4474 then press number '0' for dispatch

Fillmore PD:
524-2233

To aid the dispatcher and the officers always be ready to provide details on the offender's:

-Number of suspects (if more than one)
-Gender(s)
-Race
-Approximate Age(s)
-Body type(s) (tall/lean, short/heavy set, etc)
-Clothing color and type for EACH suspect
-Color, make/model/license plate and approximate year of associated suspect vehicles

Now VERY important:
-Know the current or last known location of suspect(s) and/or direction of travel, and how they were traveling (e.g. Suspect(s) are currently headed South on Oxnard Blvd. approaching 1st Street. on foot). This will aid the officers in finding the suspects because they will have an idea of where to look as well as project the possible location based on the direction of travel and the mode of transportaion.

Remember that in Oxnard the mountains are always to the North, Hueneme is to the South, Camarillo is to the East and the beaches are to the West. Therefore main streets like Ventura Rd, and Rose Ave run in a north/south direction while perpendicular main streets like Channel Islands Blvd and Gonzales Rd run in an east/west direction.

I would highly recommend learning the orientation of the main streets in your own city as well as the order in which they cross each other...so that way you can tell a dispatcher what street the suspect is on, what direction they are heading, and which streets they are approaching...

Posted by dcmcgov on November 24, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

In case anyone was wondering whether or not this was gang-related:

http://tinyurl.com/6x3ds9

That is the lifestyle that is glamorized by hispanic youths in Oxnard. And that is the typical end result. Dead.

When will this culture wake the h e l l up?

Posted by linda805 on November 24, 2008 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My condolences to the family of Jovani, may he Rest In Peace! I don't care what kind of lifestyle he had but he did not deserve to be Murdered!

Posted by bugmenot on November 24, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gramagracie-

one day a while back "a friend" was walking home from hueneme high school; it was halloween and it was also our homecoming football game. it was between 8pm and 9pm. some of the oxnard pd officers were performing as you like to call it; a "swoop and scoop".

apparently one of the officers mistook my friend for a gang member (he was one of the only, what seemed like, 10 white kids at hueneme high school, but apparently he looked like he was from colonia), jumped out of his car and gang tackled him. no questions asked. my friend became irate. the officers arrested him for resisting arrest. they took him to the C street station. by that time his dad found out and met the officers at the station. his father was also irate (but he wasn't arrested for it). his dad got him released, no charges filed, no booking done, no fingerprints, no nothing. it was like it never happened.

my point is, i'm glad that there are organizations like aclu out there that keep the LEO in balance so they do not consistently overstep their lawful boundaries.

Posted by gramagracie on November 24, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bugmenot, you have clearly made my point! Everyone cries...poor mijo/mija...What do you suggest the OPD do for their gang enforcement? Clearly you don't want any kind of "racial profile", although most of the gangstas are hispanic. I wasn't there when your friend was swooped, but had he kept his cool, answered the officers questions he would have been able to go home with his buddies. I have family members who have been, stopped, questioned and released. We were always taught to respect authority, whether it be police, clergy, teachers or adults. Kids now don't have those values therein lays the BIG problem..they have no value for human life.

Take the handcuffs off the officers, let them do their job. If you don't go looking for trouble, trouble will not find you.

Posted by gramagracie on November 24, 2008 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PS...In the meantime the "terrorists" in the City of Oxnard have no boundries! Do you think the ACLU will protect the citizens of Oxnard from these "terrorists"?

Posted by mamaof2 on November 24, 2008 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"If you don't go looking for trouble, trouble will not find you."

This is so not true gramagracie

Posted by JeannetteMedrano on November 24, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gramagracie

Your comment ""If you don't go looking for trouble, trouble will not find you", is incorrect. There are youth who are not involved in any sort of violence, nor gang affiliated, case point...my daughter 17 and my son 13. They weren't looking for trouble, yet it found them. It was in the form of a cowardless idiot wearing a mask and asking my 13 year old son, where you from homie, hey, where you from homie. By the Grace of God, my babies were saved. They ran as fast as they could. Don't tell me if you don't go looking for trouble, it won't look for you because it most certainly does.

Posted by JeannetteMedrano on November 24, 2008 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My Condolences to the family. God Bless You All!

Posted by FedUp on November 24, 2008 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sounds like he went out the way he lived. no surprise. parents were probably either non-existent in his upbringing, or just stupid.

Posted by gramagracie on November 24, 2008 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JeanetteMedrano, I am glad your children ran and their guardian angel was there to protect them. I was trying to make a point for "bugmenot". If an officer (trouble) stops you and you answer their questions politley (trouble) will not find you, if you become agressive with law enforcement you are asking for "trouble". The values of some of today's youth is what get's them into trouble. They have no respect for authority and this includes their parents.

The OPD needs to have the backing of it's citizens, but I keep reading how BAD the popo are yet they want the popo to cure all their ills. Ain't gonna happen.

I don't live in Oxnard anymore. I live in Arizona (I read the Star because I lived there 50 some years) our city does not tolerate gangstas. They are always stopping "hispanics"! Guess what, they always find drugs, weapons and warrants. What a surprise. This kind of vermin needs to be dealth with aggressivly. In Arizona any law abidding citizen can obtain a conceal carry permit, not to mention that you can carry your weapon in plain view. Crime is reallllllllll low in our fair city.

Posted by efrencrvnts on November 24, 2008 at 8:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

PARECE QUE A ESTE VATO YA LO TRAIBAM ENTRE OJOS O EN LA MIRA POR ESO LO TRONARON BUT LOOK AT HIS PICS HE WAS A 100 PERCENT GANGSTER THAT'S WHY HE IS DEAD NOW.!!!!!

Posted by venturadude on November 25, 2008 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Live by the gun die by the gun!!!

Posted by pleasantville on November 25, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I swear no one is safe anywhere.This guy was in his home!!

Posted by AnnaWhaat on November 25, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

phantom,Exactly!!!!!!
nojustice_justus ,ok I re-read it. BUT how can the people inside be witness's if they were inside? A bit confused here. Thanks!
And yes I DO sincerely send the family my Condolences!!!!!

Posted by celtic-panther on November 25, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is sad that this young person lost his life. The gang life or Tag crew life as a certain allure for young vulnerable individuals, who chose it, or often times; are forced into it.

There are definitley consequences to this type of life. Not all young people make good choices, and drinking and drugs are abused not only by gang members, but people from all socio-economic levels.
Not making excuses for him, and I hope like everybody, that the crime and gangs in Oxnard are greatly reduced, but I still recogonize that a young person lost his life. At that age, I was not in any gangs, but I did "party" like many people do, my ability to make the best choices was not very good as my maturity level was reflective of my age.

Sad to read, that his affiliated group/crew murdered a rival crew member......I guess it will always be "eye for an eye".

These young men, have families that love them, and I hope I have not disrespected them, or the fact that regardless of what his involvement in gangs was; everyone is worthy of the extension of love.
I deplore gangs, and gang violence, and I hope someday we, as a community, can produce some effective intervention that discourages gang involvement.
My condolences to the family, and my sincere compassion.

Posted by venturapagan on November 25, 2008 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder if the anti-gunners would feel the same if someone like this broke into their home, threatened them with a firearm or other weapon, and they had no way to defend themselves. Criminals, by definition, do not have any regard for the law, nor obtain weapons legally anyway, so banning guns has no effect but to punish law-abiding citizens trying to protect themselves. Don't blame the car, blame the drunk behind the wheel for plowing down innocents, if you know what I mean. My condolences to the family....

Posted by bugmenot on November 25, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gramagracie-

I don't care about the profiling. That's human nature. One can even call it "trending" or stereotyping.

I don't care about being talked to.

What bothers me is the "above the law" attitude they exhibited upon "my friend" with no cause. I don't care about excessive force, but excessive force on an innocent civilian without even committing an infraction, or exhibited any aggressive behavior? They tackled him because he looked like he could have been a gang member and because he was carrying a brown bag of candy (it was halloween), and they thought he was "brown bagging" some liquor. The officers made a mistake and his arrogance did not allow him to suck up his pride and admit it. Although my friend was irate, he wasn't physical, just very verbal. The LEO would not suck up their pride and admit a mistake, instead they arrested him for resisting arrest. How is that even legal or possible? Chicken or the egg?

Why didn't they book him? They brushed it under the table and pretended it didn't happen, because they were in the wrong. gramagracie- if you witnessed this incident or had a family member describe this incident to you as if it happened to them, you wouldn't be singing the same tune.

My friend and I are not so naive to believe that all LEO's are like this, but I've the arrogance I've witnessed first hand has been "trendy". I'm glad there is an organization around like the ACLU to attempt to maintain some balance of power. I want an officer to fear backlash if they abuse their power.

Posted by bugmenot on November 25, 2008 at 12:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>>If an officer (trouble) stops you and you answer their questions politley (trouble) will not find you, if you become agressive with law enforcement you are asking for "trouble".

THEY DIDN'T STOP US. THEY JUMPED OUT OF THE CAR, IN PLAIN CLOTHES, AND GANG TACKLED US, because they thought we were gang members carrying brown bags of liquor in south side.

However, we were two white teenagers from Hueneme High School, carrying a brown bag of candy walking home from our homecoming football game on Halloween.

At that point, do you think you're going to get polite out of us? You're going to get somebody to stand up to principle. And when neither party (us or the cops) will suck up their pride, we will instead be arrested, but released before booked.

>>>Does Oxnard need more officers? Probably, but until the ACLU gets out of the picture the officers have their hands tied.<<<

It didn't seem like OPD was too afraid of the ACLU, if they were, maybe they wouldn't have treated us the way they did.

Posted by bugmenot on November 25, 2008 at 12:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>They have no respect for authority and this includes their parents.

That's what my incident boiled down to. My friend was arrested because after he was gang tackled for no reason, he didn't show the officer respect.

Respect is a two way street, and if that officer would have asked us to stop, there's no doubt that officer would have received respect.

My idea is that you would think organizations like the ACLU would influence the officers to treat the innocent citizens with respect.

Instead we were profiled, tackled and then respect demanded from us. None was given (principle at this point). More harassment ensued.

Posted by gramagracie on November 25, 2008 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bugmenot, so you were with your friend...I don't believe you stated that before. Was there a reason for the stop, did the officers just jump on your friend and your friend alone, or did they "gang tackle" all of you? There seems to be some conflicting statements. Why did they not charge you with any crime, did you have more self control? Lots of questions.
Either way, bugmenot, you can either take care of the streets yourselves and not put the OPD down or you let them do their job. My question is "where is the ACLU when the rights of citizens are at risk by the home grown terrorists"? A whistle heard, a young man goes outside (he probably thought it was his buddy)and he gets killed! Does this sound like the ACLU is protecting the right people? Yet the OPD, whom you think needs to be "afraid of backlash" continue to protect and serve.

I will call 911 when someone is at my door and I fear for my life, the police/fire will come to pick up the perp's body. If I fear for my life they better fear for their's.

Respect is something that is earned..unlike the right to bare arms..respect is not a right. Check out the word "authority" in the dictionary. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone "police brutality"...I do condone "force needed to control the situation".

Posted by Why on November 25, 2008 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Extinctus amabitur idem

Posted by bugmenot on November 25, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>Was there a reason for the stop, did the officers just jump on your friend and your friend alone, or did they "gang tackle" all of you?

The reason they stated for the stop was they believed we were gang members. The officers were in an unmarked car, one was in street clothes. They gang tackled my friend only. They stated it was because he carried a paper bag. It's halloween.

>>Why did they not charge you with any crime, did you have more self control?

I had a lot less self control. I exercised my first amendment rights to their fullest. I was obnoxious. Maybe since they didn't tackle me they couldn't say I resisted.

>>Either way, bugmenot, you can either take care of the streets yourselves and not put the OPD down or you let them do their job.

I do not put OPD down, except in this incident. I don't think I've ever commented on an article about OPD without saying "good job OPD". Never criticism besides this anecdote.

>>My question is "where is the ACLU when the rights of citizens are at risk by the home grown terrorists"? A whistle heard, a young man goes outside (he probably thought it was his buddy)and he gets killed! Does this sound like the ACLU is protecting the right people? Yet the OPD, whom you think needs to be "afraid of backlash" continue to protect and serve.

Maybe this is the problem. I'm sure you understand what ACLU does, but you seem to misconstrue their purpose in this paragraph to sound cynical of the union. OPD provides a civil service. ACLU is a group you can turn to if your civil liberties are infringed upon and nobody else will listen. The ACLU does not provide the same service as the OPD. The purpose of the ACLU is not to get involved in murder cases, that would be the job of OPD.

Your original post said: "Does Oxnard need more officers? Probably, but until the ACLU gets out of the picture the officers have their hands tied."

I took offense to this. I do not understand how so many people have animosity towards a union that prides itself on civil liberties.

Regarding my situation, you can sit and ask "well, what about this?" or "what about that?" but the point I have been trying to portray is that my "friends" civil liberties have been infringed upon by Oxnard PD. Like I said prior, if I was one of your family members telling you this story, you would know more about me and know how serious the situation was. To imply that a group that protects the civil liberties of the citizens is hampering the efforts of the police department and need to "get out of the picture" shows how little respect you have for civil liberties.

Oh yah; Miranda rights were never read to my friend either.

Posted by mmadrid on November 25, 2008 at 5:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well Jovany was my friend and he was a good person he would buy me lunch at school sometimes and he was just fun to be around. I cant believe that this had to happen to him. i would always give him rides to his house and to my house so he could hang out with my boyfriend. I don't know why somebody would want to do that to him. But there are alot of haters out there. and I hope that they find this person and put him away for a very long time. If i have to i will look and find this person. We will miss you so very much. You will never be forgotten....

Posted by d_stroy on November 26, 2008 at 6:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mmadrid- jovany was from HA, how is this not believable? he knew what he was doing, you know the reputation HA has, like i said, HA'ers killed my friend, i feel that you reap what you sew, or in better terms, karma! its sad that his family have to suffer the loss of a loved one, my heart goes out to them, but there is obviously a reason he isnt here anymore. i believe that there is a reason, only god knows.

Posted by Oxnard2009 on November 26, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mmadrid maybe you already know who that person was...

Posted by gramagracie on November 26, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

bugmenot, we seem to be going around and around in your situation. I will concede that I wasn't there, don't know what happened I hope it was an unsolicited occurance. Even so what do you want OPD or any other police agency to do?

I didn't know this young man but a human life has value. These individuals (terrorists) have no concern for human life. We are not dealing with the norm here, something forceful needs to be approached. I am sorry but that is how I feel, it appears that a slap on the wrist, a no no bad boy now be on your way isn't working. A more agressive approach that has an affect on these "terrorists" needs to be institued but because of the ACLU and some of the moms and dads crying not my son/daughter it is very hard.

The police, in any city, know who the gang bangers are. I have no problem with a little hassrassment to get the police's point across. These mokes have no fear of the police or anyone else for that matter.

Here in my fair city, the swoop and scoop, and the police get cheers form the local citizens. Crime rate is low, homicides are almost non existant and they are usually related to domestic violence.

Let's just agree to disagree because I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. Have a Happy Thanksgiving to all.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on November 28, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

oh gees My grandbaby 1 yr old. has three names. Her birth name and two nicknames. I have three. My son two or three. My daughter ,three. Doesn't mean your in a gang.

Posted by bugmenot on December 1, 2008 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gram- I had a nice long weekend and a great Thanksgiving, I hope you had the same...

That being said, back to some civil banter...

The only subject we need to "agree to disagree" on is the role of the ACLU and other civil liberty groups. We agree on everything else.

You say "what should Oxnard PD have done?". In the big picture, they did what they were supposed to, except their arrogance did not allow them to admit to a mistake. It was two dominate males and neither was going to budge, but the LEO should have because they were wrong and they found out they were wrong. In the grand scheme of things, i do not fault Oxnard PD for this, I fault an arrogate officer. Scoop and swoop, that's fine, but when you swoop an innocent civilian, you don't scoop em up. Without civil groups like the ACLU and nobody watching over the LEO's, it would not be far fetched to say that law enforcement could be run like the Gestapo.

In the grand scheme of things, I understand that the harassment I received that night is not the most severe harassment any police department has done. For this, I'm grateful for organizations like the ACLU.

For instance, we have a gang injunction in Oxnard. This is a good injunction and since you follow the PD's in Oxnard, I'm sure you are aware of it. Most citizens will agree the injunction is beneficial. It has been crafted in a way that does not infringe on the freedoms and liberties of the innocent civilians within the territory. For instance, you must PROVE their gang status prior to serving them with the injunction. Had it not been for civil groups like the ACLU, Oxnard would have likely adopted an injunction where any civilian could have been targeted. Some could have lost liberties and freedoms based on the territory in which they reside.

You said-
"until the ACLU gets out of the picture the officers have their hands tied."

Puhlease.

could read-
"once the ACLU gets out of the picture the innocents will have their hands tied"

Posted by bugmenot on December 1, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This sentence may be taken out of context, I'd like to clarify:

>>Without civil groups like the ACLU and nobody watching over the LEO's, it would not be far fetched to say that law enforcement could be run like the Gestapo

law enforcement officers trend to push for the maximum. for instance, there was an article in VC recently about supplying drugs that led to the death of a girl wondering on the freeway. the LEO recommended first degree murder. we all know that's not going to be the case and it will be plea bargained down to somewhere between negligence and manslaughter.

my point being, if it were up to the LEO, we could become a police state, like the Gestapo.

Posted by STEPH_PIINK_OCTOBER on June 11, 2009 at 3:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i CANT BEliEVE PEOPlE WHO NEVER iN THERE liFES EVEN MEET Y0U ARE SAYiNG THiS STUFF ABOUT YOU. HOW DO YOU GUYS DARE SAY HE WAS A BAD PERSON AND THAT PEOPLE DiDNT EVEN CARE ABOUT WHAT HAPPEN TOO YOU! YOU NOSEY PEOPLE SHOUlD STAY OUT OF OUR fAMilYS liFE AND STOP CHECKiNG OUT ON OTHERS. WHY DO YOUS SAY HE WAS A GANG MEMBER, YEAhh HE WAS YOUNG AND lOOKED A lil CRAZY RiGHT BUT YOU GUYS SHOUlD NEVER JUDGE A BOOK BY iTS COVER!

-->iN THE OTHER HAND i JUST WANNA lET YOU kNOW THAT WE lOVE YOU AND MiSS YOU COUSiN! YOU'll AlWAYS HAVE A SPECiAl PlACE iN MY HEART AND WHO CARES WHAT OTHER NOSEY PEOPlE HAVE tOO SAY ABOUT YOU THEY DONT kNOW YOU THEY NEVER SAWWW THE GOOD SiDE OF YOU. BUT YET THEiR STill TAlKiNG BAD THiNGS ABOUT YOU HAHA YOU GUYS ARE REAllY fUNNY! YOU WERE A VERY HARD WORKER, YOU lOVED tOO PlAY AROUND, VERY RESPECTfUl, YOU HAD A lADY WHO lOVED YOU SO MUCHH, AND YOU HAD All YOUR fAMilY & fRiENDS WHO WERE THERE AND HAVE BEEN WiTH YOU THROUGH THiCK AND THiN BABY.
[[MAY YOU REST iN PEACE COUSiN JOVANY CAHUANTZI]]
[[ fOREVER iN MY HEART BABY BOY]]