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52,000 inmates could be set free
Trial starts on effect of prison overcrowding
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More from County NewsSAN FRANCISCO — More than 13 years after a federal judge first ruled that healthcare services in California prisons violate constitutional standards, a high-stakes trial opened Tuesday to determine if overcrowding is the root cause of the problem — and if so, whether the remedy should be to release tens of thousands of inmates.
In a special proceeding required in cases that could result in capping inmate populations, a three-judge panel will decide first whether overcrowding is to blame for the prison system's failures. If the judges decide it is, they will reconvene next year to consider whether to order the state to limit the number of inmates to a more manageable number.
California's 33 prisons now house 156,000 inmates, about twice the number the facilities were designed to hold. Attorneys for the inmates have asked the court to limit the prison population to 104,000, or 130 percent of design capacity. To reach that number, they are asking that 52,000 inmates be released over a two-year period.
"We are representing more than 150,000 individuals who are constantly dependent upon the governor and the Department of Corrections to meet their basic needs," said Donald Specter, executive director of the Prison Law Office. "For more than a decade, those basic needs have not been met."
To help make his case during opening arguments, Specter called upon an unlikely and unwitting witness. He showed a videotape of Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger calling a special session of the Legislature in 2007 to deal with prison overcrowding. "It is getting dangerous for people," Schwarzenegger said at the time. "Dangerous to the inmates, dangerous to the staff and dangerous to the public."
Virtually no new prison beds have been built since.
Attorneys for the state, unable to dispute that prisons are jammed beyond capacity, argued instead that medical and mental healthcare have improved under the supervision of federal courts and that those improvements can continue without putting a limit on prison population.
"This is not an overcrowding case," argued Paul Mello, attorney for the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. "This case relates to the delivery of medical care and the purported barriers to the delivery of that care."
Decision can be appealed
The trial is expected to continue through Dec. 5 before federal district court judges Thelton Henderson of San Francisco and Lawrence Karlton of Sacramento and Circuit Judge Stephen Reinhardt of Los Angeles.
Whatever they decide can be appealed directly to the U.S. Supreme Court.
An adverse ruling would create pressure on state officials to more quickly build additional prison facilities, such as the seven new nursing home-style facilities for inmates with chronic medical and mental health problems advocated by prison healthcare receiver J. Clark Kelso. One of those has been proposed for Camarillo.
The trial's opening day attracted a capacity crowd of about 80 spectators in the large, ceremonial courtroom of the Federal Courts Building, in addition to the 15-member legal teams for each side. Stacked inside the jury box were 41 boxes of evidence, framed by three library carts filled with large legal binders — the accumulation of evidence over 13 years of litigation and court reports on medical and mental healthcare inside California prisons.
Among those on hand was Matthew Cate, secretary of the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation. In an interview during a break in the trial, Cate acknowledged that "overcrowding makes all prison operations more complicated" but maintained the state is making good progress at improving its delivery of healthcare.
"The prospect of releasing inmates is too dramatic a solution," Cate said.
Idea 'didn't get any traction'
Cate acknowledged that Schwarzenegger in January proposed the early release of 22,000 inmates as a budget-cutting move, but the proposal "didn't get any traction." The administration will not again suggest early releases, he said. "I don't think that's the right way to go."
Attorneys for the state did their best to keep the focus of the trial on health services, rather than the overall conditions of prisons.
When Specter showed a video depicting a prison gymnasium filled wall-to-wall with triple-deck bunk beds as a narrator talked of "thousands of inmates crowded together," Mello objected to what he called the use of hearsay evidence.
Specter responded that the video had been taken from the Web site of the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation.
"What?" interjected Karlton. "It's on their Web site?"
The rest of the short video was allowed to be shown.
Attorneys for the inmates have a potentially influential ally on their side. The California Correctional Peace Officers Association, the union that represents prison guards, has intervened in the case on the side of the plaintiffs.
"The conditions create a dehumanizing effect on the correctional staff," argued association attorney Gregg Adam. "Defendants lack the ability to address the overcrowding or even fully recognize the severity of the problem."
Adam said that while the union has in the past advocated for a "build and fix approach," it now believes an inmate population cap is the only "short- or medium-term solution to dangerous conditions."
Changes made, lawyer says
Mello insisted the state, under Kelso's direction, has made important strides to improve medical services. He noted the prison healthcare budget grew to $2.19 billion this year, up from $1.25 billion three years ago. Since July 2007, he said, the state prison system has hired 1,400 doctors and nurses.
"These improvements have occurred in the face of population pressures," he said.
Among the first witnesses was Wayne Scott, a former executive director of the Texas prison system who helped implement reforms that allowed that state to remedy constitutional violations for inadequate medical and mental health services.
Scott, now a consultant who typically works for government agencies that run prisons, testified for the plaintiffs. He toured a number of California prisons this year and was asked if he was surprised by what he saw.
"I really was," he said. "I've been to a lot of jurisdictions over the last five years, and I've never seen these kind of overcrowded conditions."
He said such conditions make it impossible for California to provide adequate access to healthcare.
Psychiatrist testifies
Pablo Stewart, a psychiatrist who specializes in prison mental health services, testified the overcrowded conditions themselves have contributed to a rise in mental illness among inmates.
Individuals bunked in gymnasiums or day rooms rather than cells, he said, never have any privacy or sense of personal space, must sleep with the lights on and must cope with noise levels akin to "an airport runway."
Stewart also noted that inmates identified as experiencing acute mental health problems are sometimes kept for days in small concrete stalls or cagelike holding cells in which they can't lie down.
"These are settings used to house mentally ill people in crisis," he said. "They are unable to access mental health crisis beds in a timely manner."
Posted by live_for_purpose on November 19, 2008 at 4:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We should build more prisons. Executing murderers would help the situation. Perhaps more private prisons contracted with the state would help. Maybe some could be shipped out of state if some places have excess prison space (maybe Utah?).
If you don't like prison conditions, I'd recommend not doing things like raping, robbing, killing, selling drugs, etc.
If we could teach morals to kids in public schools and that there is right and wrong in the world, it would help a lot. Also music, video games, movies, the internet, television, etc. are mostly violent and immoral. This encourages criminal behavior in many people. Bad media like this magnify evil.
Posted by Tom_Johnston on November 19, 2008 at 5:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Do we really need to lock all these people up? The rates of incarceration in the US and California exceed those anywhere to be found in other nations.
Advocating executions because things are too crowded is a frivolous suggestion.
Yes, people should not commit crimes, and no, prison isn't supposed to be a day spa, and I doubt that it is very much.
Californians need to just accept that if you want to lock up so many, you have to pay for that.
That's it, period.
If you want to lock them up until they are in there 60's, 70's and beyond, well, expect that as they age they will have increasing health care needs. It's inevitable.
Not accepting the responsibility for this kind of incarceration rate is why things like the Camarillo prison hospital are happening.
Posted by dcsfancy on November 19, 2008 at 6:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a tactic to get us scared so we will allow tax increases. Not working for me. Most of them would be better off released as prisons do not reform people it only helps them learn to be worse.
Posted by ironwoman on November 19, 2008 at 6:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
More liberal judges making liberal decisions.
Posted by luv2sail on November 19, 2008 at 6:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, this will certainly up the unemployment figures.
Posted by dwilson on November 19, 2008 at 6:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If they deport all the illegal aliens that are currently in prison that should more than cover the 52,000. If they have committed a crime they are the ones we don't want here anyway.
Posted by onapproach on November 19, 2008 at 6:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Posted by luv2sail on November 19, 2008 at 6:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, this will certainly up the unemployment figures.
---
Naw. More crime means more work for doctors and repairmen.
Posted by 6bucks on November 19, 2008 at 6:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Lets bring back the chain gangs and put them to work. Those with relatively minor sentences can work it off cleaning up our highways, working the fields and other manual labor jobs.
Posted by handyhood on November 19, 2008 at 6:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
dcsfancy- What???? Ok, according to you all the gangbangers that have gone to prison should be let out. Oh yeah, that will help!!! Yes, prisons do not reform much anymore. It is warehousing, but to let them out?? They went to prison for a reason. It's hard to get put in prison, you have to be Baaad! It ALL COMES DOWN TO MONEY IN THIS STATE. If we spent more to reform instead of warehousing, in the long run and eventually things would get better. We have to do whatever is necessary to have a prisoner do all his/her time. It's all that is a real deterrent anymore.
Posted by luv2sail on November 19, 2008 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Have to agree with 6bucks. Actually if someone was sentenced to a 5-10 sentence they could actually learn a trade of sorts during this time and return to soceity to be productive.
Posted by frank14 on November 19, 2008 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The easy solution is speed up the executions to make room for more criminals.
Posted by newshound on November 19, 2008 at 7:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I don't think that prison is supposed to be a fun experience. That being said, basic needs should be taken care of.
Posted by yellowdvr on November 19, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
OK Tom lets blame the state not the morons commiting the crimes. Give me a break. If you do the crime you do the time. Don't want to do time then dont do the crime it's as elementry as that.
Posted by lawabider on November 19, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Shorter and harsher sentences -- and tough cr*p if they don't get free medical care -- they did not earn our respect or our tax dollars... Bread, water and hard labor -- could shorten a one-year sentence to six months, etc... Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this oneout... Oh, right, our government has NO brains...
Posted by Morris1 on November 19, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO WAKE UP TO WHAT IS GOING ON ACROSS THIS COUNTRY. WE HAVE LESS THAN 5% OF THE WORLDS POPULATION AND 25% OF IT'S PRISONERS. 1 IN 99 OF AMERICAS CITIZENS ARE INCARCERATED. IT IS ALL ABOUT JOBS AND JOB CREATION. EVENTUALLY EVERY AMERICAN FAMILY WILL BE AFFECTED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT. YOU MAY BE NEXT.
FAMOUS QUOTE:
"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. When there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. And then you cash in on guilt" --Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
Posted by 805grl on November 19, 2008 at 7:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Morris1 how about everyone following all laws and doing the right thing! Yea my family is next because of a family members failure to 'do right' and not break the law! Its not impossible to live without breaking laws..I must somehow manage to get away with everything because Ive never been in jail!
Posted by mmlove38 on November 19, 2008 at 7:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The original purpose of a jail or prison is to keep criminals away from the rest of the population. It is not the responsibility of the system to rehabilitate. However, since there are so many people that believe you can "change" a criminal by forcing them to attend a trade course, get their GED, attend church and anger management, it has now become an expectation of the prison system. Criminals have a lot more rights and luxuries than you think. What use to be a privilege for them, has now become a right. You can't change someone who doesn't want to change, no matter what courses you send them to. The state needs to revamp Title 15, stand up to the attorneys, and tell society that if you commit a crime, your rights are limited. Have the inmates prove to us that they deserve to be treated better. If we want to rehabilitate offenders, then they should not be placed in the prison system. Have the rehabilitation order be a part of their probation/parole terms and any violation would require them to go back into custody. That way, those that really want to rehabilitate, would make the effort to succeed. Those that just want to get out would eventually get re-arrested or leave the state. But either way, it would free up spaces for additional criminals.
Posted by jackim on November 19, 2008 at 8:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Even if a population cap were to be ordered, the state would appeal to the Supreme Court and this will drag on for more years. The state has already had 13 years to bring it's prisons into compliance, and it has not done anything to alleviate the overcrowding and the poor conditions. In fact, voters and legislators have passed more laws that increase sentencing, only serving to make the problem worse. The only common sense way to handle this crisis is by revisiting the sentencing guidelines and initiating (through CDCr) more time credits. As it is, many sentences are doubled (for 2nd strikes)and then because it's a 2nd strike a few additional years are tacked on and the inmate is only able to earn either 15% or 20% good time ("programming")credits. Sentencing laws like this are part of the reason the prisons are so crowded. A mass release over two years may not be the answer - it will only put added burdens for services on the county level. Instead, a slower but steady rate of release through changes in time credits, which CDCr is capable of implementing, makes more sense.
Posted by hanklo on November 19, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Isn't California great! 46th in the nation for educational spending and they're looking to cut education and free up the criminals. Crime really does pay here doesn't it.
Posted by Madhatter on November 19, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
handyhood said - "It's hard to get put in prison, you have to be Baaad!" Not so in California. My son (a Central Coast boy) got 12 years for a crime he did not commit. Over zealous law enforcement and District Attorneys coupled with over worked and in some instances incompetent attorneys have put thousands of men and women in prison for crimes they did not commit. Threats of longer prison time drive many to opt for a guilty or nolo contendre plea to avoid longer sentence. Threats of if you don't take the plea we are going to charge a member of your family with a crime as well.
Posted by frankcourser on November 19, 2008 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Soviet style prison systems broke the bank in that country and those that support it in this country are doing the same here!It is amazing the support comes from Republican lawmakers and lawenforcement that stand to gain from jammed prisons.As it was pointed out we make up just 4.5% of the world population but incarcerate 25% of the worlds prisoners.America the land of the free? Not anymore!It is time to rethink our drug laws and sentencing laws before we fall apart as a country!
Posted by brwnoso on November 19, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
THERE GOES THE NEIGHBORHOOD
Posted by llopezsm on November 19, 2008 at 8:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The release of prisoners...PLEASE. I totally agree with live_for_purpose: ship them out to other counties, states, whatever it takes. Take them to some island far away and fend for themselves. We don't need these dirt bags out before their time. They already get away with this because of "good behavior" and of course they "find" "The Lord". This is such BS. They get out,turn around and do something else that lands them back in prison. WE do pay the price as they harm our children, kill, steal etc. Lock these criminals up and throw away the keys!
Posted by yoda on November 19, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)
1. Send illegal aliens back to their country, the plane ticket is much cheaper.
2. Execute clear cut murder cases within 3 years
3. Chain gang or work release program the less violent or non violent offenders
4. Remove hate crime statutes, any crime commited against another person is hateful. I have never understood hating someone as a crime or enhancement. I hope I dont go to jail just because I hate someone someday, scary!!!!!
5. lessen drug charges and make marijuana legal and taxable.
6. Yes, build a few more prisons, we all need work and most of the people I know that went to jail, deserved it. So if 1 in 99 people want to commit crimes, then lets let them know that they do have an uncomfortable place to sleep.
People we all have to come together to get our voice heard and yes, I will support Lassens.
May the force be with you!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on November 19, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
jeffreys49: I agree. Prison should be for violent offenses and those that are of direct physical danger to society. If you legal marijuana...you could let out a lot of repeat petty drug offenders from the prison system. But then that would be no more budget dollars allocated to the DOC.....Waaaaaah.....don't take away their allowance!!!! Waaaaah.
Posted by Onebaddeluxe on November 19, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Set up tent prisons camps along the border .... I say give them a purpose.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on November 19, 2008 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
llopezsm: Come back to reality...shipping people off (ala Survivor) to a remote island to fend for themselves is not realistic.........it's Australia and New Zealand.
Posted by dc_n_vta on November 19, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
BRAVO YODA!!!
Posted by AVDirtFarm on November 19, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Build More Prisons - I suggest Antarctica
Posted by BeaHappi on November 19, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Prisoners who are illegal immigrants should be sent back to their home countries directly upon release.
Posted by sslocal on November 19, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
From the article: "Individuals bunked in gymnasiums or day rooms rather than cells, he said, never have any privacy or sense of personal space, must sleep with the lights on and must cope with noise levels akin to "an airport runway."
Try living on an aircraft carrier for 6 months at a time.
If our troops can put up with it I don't see a problem.
Posted by LoveAmerica on November 19, 2008 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
There is a percentage of the population who need to be locked up for the rest of their lives.
There is another, larger percentage, who need to learn how to be productive citizens when they are released because they didn't learn this from their parents or they became desperate because of addiction or hunger.
If we are going to imprison people then, yes, we will have to pay taxes to imprison, feed, and treat them when they are sick or beaten to a pulp by a cellmate.
Our prison system does not create productive citizens. It creates monsters who come out worse than when they went in. Our violent society is a product of our incompetent penal system.
We can fix it and make things better or we can continue to turn a blind eye to it in the name of "punishment" then wonder what is becoming of our society.
Posted by mamaof2 on November 19, 2008 at 11:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
llopezsm: u say ship them out other countries and states... whos gonna pay for that? do you realize how expensive that would be for 52,000 inmates! isnt society complaining about too much tax money being spent on inmates already?
the sad thing about this is once ur in the system u cant get out even if u have been doing good for yrs you end up at the wrng place at the wrng time, the cop runs ur record and Bam ur back in, then u get out and u cant get a job so u go back to what u know best, its a vicious circle and unless u get lucky u cant get out of it. if they release these inmates they will most likely be back and then we will have the same problem all over again.
Posted by AnnaWhaat on November 19, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Tom_Johnston , I couldn't have said it better!
dcsfancy, Exactly! Prison has a very high probability of making people worse off then when they went in. More violent, angry, more likely to commit another crime. It turns them racist, gay and violent. I say build more prisons or let the minor offenders out early!!!
dwilson , I agree that would be a great idea! BUT the problem is that whatever country they came from illegally to get here probably will NOT make them serve anytime at all for the crimes they committed in the USA. Unless the government works together, which is doubtful.
handyhood ,Good Morning! But really its not that difficult to be sent to prison. Especially if you have been there once already. A simple violation like being out of the county will get you sent back.What the heck? Am I not agreeing with you today LOL ....
luv2sail ,Exactly! They do offer College classes. At least coming out you have something you are qualified to do.
Madhatter , Sadly there are alot of people in prison that were scammed by the courts! Innocent people who should have fought and pled not guilty BUT the DA's office scares the crap out of them telling them that they could end up doing 8 years instead of a year and a half if they plead guilty. Due to the fact that is costs about 6,000 to go to Jury trial....
Bea, I agree! Send them all back immediately after release!!!
I HAVE seen many that have gone to prison come out and make great people. Not all are fake and say they have been changed. But a majority have.
Posted by lightsout3777 on November 19, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
woah some of you are on the right track, but most of you are way off
first of all, do you have any idea how much it costs to execute a prisoner? with all the appeals and such, it's WELL over the amount it costs to keep someone in prison for life.
secondly, prisons were IN FACT meant to rehabilitate people, not merely to separate them from the rest of society. however, people tend to forget that.
thrid, why in god's name would you eliminate hate crimes? yes, all crime may very well be done with intentions of hate, but the degree of hate in those crimes varies INCREDIBLY.
last, good job with the marijuana talk. smoking pot is nowhere near as worse a crime as theft, abuse, or worse. either legalizing and taxing it or reducing jail time is most definitely needed.
Posted by FedUp on November 19, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with Yoda.
also, lets start charging the home countries of these illegal criminals to house them. we can do the same for any of our citizens who are being housed in outher countries jails. this will deter illegal immigration, as the country they are leaving will be less likely to let them go, knowing they will inevitably be paying for them later on.
jail is not a deterent anymore. all the liberal judges and lawyers out there have created such a mess with all of their "inhumane" practice laws that jail is too easy on most of these people.
why should the victim (with or without health insurance) get worse healthcare benefits than the criminal themselves? it makes no sense.
Posted by nojustice_justus on November 19, 2008 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Please release me, let me go...
Posted by BeaHappi on November 19, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
nojustice_justus...release you from where? Are you on the inside? Do tell! :~)
Posted by jill on November 19, 2008 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We need to build more prisons. Build them in the middle of agricultural land. Have the prisoners work in the fields. We could solve prison overcrowding and illegal immigration all in one fell swoop.
Posted by nojustice_justus on November 19, 2008 at 3:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
No just the song lyrics seemed fitting...couldn't find the actual author as there is a bit of controversy as to the correct one...so I listed nobody.
Yoda--if you are going to be THAT wise then you'd better 'speak' like him...object-subject-verb phrases. Just saying is all. JMNY TM.
Posted by nojustice_justus on November 19, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Bea--I've never been in hand cuffs let alone jail.
I have toured the jail once with a friend who was going to be an SST.
Another time was with an officer who booked a wife beater (not the shirt...lol) when I was on a ride along.
There. I told. (=:
Posted by BeaHappi on November 19, 2008 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
nojustice_justus...LOL! I thought that you'd been hiding from us! A bit slow on the uptake today! :~)
Posted by handyhood on November 19, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Madhatter- Do you know how many innocent people are in prison? All of them! :) I'm sorry your son went to prison for something he didn't do, but if he weren't in the wrong place and following all the laws he wouldn't have even been in the cross hairs of the police. I have been to prison. It is not fun and games. It sucks! I will never go back because I no longer put myself in a position to go back. I did so well that I was released from parole two years early. It is very crowded in prison and although I felt it was bad, it could have been worse. There are programs to teach people who are in prison a trade, but most of them don't want it. Most of them are just passing time trying to think up their next crime.
Posted by ecarson1958 on November 19, 2008 at 5:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm a little late today. Working and trying to make a living. Think about sometimes grabbing a bag full of cash. That would solve all of my problems, except I may not be able to see my two sons for 12 years. I may end up shot a paralyzed in prison. This is the difference between law abiding and law breakers. They only think of getting away with the money. They don't think of getting caught until it is too late. They will sit in what ever element they are stuck with. That is the way it goes. All of the illegal aliens who are wasting are money in prison, get rid of them to their home country except for murderers. Those on death row. Forget about them. They'll never get executed, it costs too much and there is only 650 of them anyway. As for pot, let the prisoners smoke it. Maybe they'll all get along.
Posted by llopezsm on November 19, 2008 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
BabyzDaddy_01 : I don't care where they are shipped,reality is that they don't need to be in a society where they cannot cannot support themselves without, committing crimes upon those of us that work so hard for what we have.
mamaof2: that says' it all, you are a momma of 2, keep them close and watch them like a hawk forever. I know I watch mine.
I pray that no idiot out there will ever harm them, my home, or myself. Or any of you.
Posted by nancy_4ever on November 19, 2008 at 7:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
We need a revival of repentance and Holy Spirit renewal. Only God can rehabilitate. This is what happens with "separation of church and state." Who do you think comes in when God is kicked out?
Posted by THESILKY1 on November 19, 2008 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Gee you don't think Kelso is building 7 stand alone Prisons to reduce overcrowding, under the guise of health care?
So what is the cost?
What are we the tax payers, going to pay for this ----fest?
After it's all said and done, we will pay for all of it.
Let them all out in the streets, and save Billions, and if they comment crimes, protect yourself, and light them up. Simple justice for all.
The Silk....
Posted by horsespinner on November 19, 2008 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
lets release the ones who plead guilt first, they faced the music and saved me money. If anyone goes free it should be them.
Posted by live_for_purpose on November 19, 2008 at 11:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do what Sheriff Joe Arpaio does in Maricopa County, Arizona. He is a legend and a true American. If all Americans were like him, this would be the land of the free and the home of the brave and a great place of lower crime. He puts up tents out in the desert to house the miscreants. He feeds them cheap food and buys cheap pink-colored underwear for the male prisoners. They hate it as well they should. They should be penitent.
Chain gangs are a great idea.
Posted by edie on November 20, 2008 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Rally nov 21 at 900 am in san fran i will be there for the judges and prisoners what you all have done to calif is shame
Posted by marketrealist on November 20, 2008 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Think about what some of you are saying in asking for more prisons. Once you put a person in prison, they become a ward of the state with all the expenses associated with that. The more people we put in prison, the more people the state has to take care of. Taking care of prisoners is big business to many organizations. Many people get their daily salaries from the prison system. The police-courts-detention-parole business is huge in California and their unions like the prison guard union are very strong. Try messing with them as a politician and you’ll be out of office. They have no interest in work furlough, using efficient tracking bracelets, sentencing reform, improving drug treatment, etc. Who do you think would oppose outsourcing to private prisons or the use of chain gangs? The answer - People who feed off this system.
Let me put what you are saying in broader context - we currently have 1 in 100 adults in prison in the USA. (This is about 10 times the rate of Europe). To support that infrastructure, we need the criminal-justice-penal-parole system of which the Camarillo hospital is a part. There is a huge expense to the taxpayers to support this infrastructure. As we bankrupt ourselves with the criminal-justice-penal-parole system and the military-industrial complex, the country is racking up debt quickly. We can't fund education, infrastructure, etc.
I wish we could scale back these institutions dramatically. We will need to face the fact we cannot pay to keep prisoners in jail at a cost of $50,000 per person each year. But if we don't face this reality, Ventura County citizens will continue to pay to fund these systems and the money and jobs will go elsewhere.
But we spend like drunken sailors and think we can then expect clean neat pretty houses on the hill. Dream on. Don't build more prisons. Build schools and hospitals for our citizens. We cannot do both. There is no free lunch.
Posted by FedUp on November 20, 2008 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"We will need to face the fact we cannot pay to keep prisoners in jail at a cost of $50,000 per person each year"
which is why we need to bill the home countries of all of the illegals we are housing. we can't afford our own garbage, let alone some other nations trash as well.
Posted by Freedom1 on November 21, 2008 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Prison used to be considered a deterant to future criminal acts. Now it's become a home for many - complete with education, medical care, visits with family, providing a better life than what some inmates ever had on the outside. Maybe that's why it is no longer feared, but a community all of its own - and a rather expensive one at that.
Posted by NottaNewbieNameGame on November 21, 2008 at 11:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I urge everyone to watch this excellent CSPAN interview with Judge James Gray, Superior Court Judge, Orange County. His is a former federal prosecutor for the US Attorney General, a former Los Angeles County prosecutor, he is highly respected and recognized for his work with MADD, co-founder of Drive-Alive etc. Read his impressive bio http://www.judgejimgray.com/about.php
Judge Gray has courageously come forward to publically say what most judges, politicans and prosecutors will only say in private.
http://www.leap.cc/link/176
Posted by NottaNewbieNameGame on November 21, 2008 at 11:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Law Enforcement is now finally beginning to tell the truth about our prison system and the war on drugs.
Posted by deepwater805 on November 22, 2008 at 12:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's a thought: legalize drug use, and instantly de-criminalize the users. If they commit a crime like burglury, or mugging, then it's back to the slammer, but to incarcerate a user is simply insane. Think this idea is too nuts? George Shultz, Ronald Regans secretary of state advocated this stance, and it seems to work in some civilized countries. Why not here?
Posted by Rocket81 on November 22, 2008 at 10:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Since the story came from SF. Just keep them all in SF. That city is all messed up anyway.
Posted by edie on November 25, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
well thats ok ! just get that BIG CHECK BOOK out and pay & pay the bills on the prison for ever
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