Posted by speakingout on November 2, 2008 at 5:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Clearly not everyone has the same outlook on this and other issues. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however, what gives people the right to physically threaten another human being for expressing their opinion? Immature.

YES ON 8.

Posted by mmlove38 on November 2, 2008 at 6:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well "speakingout," since the subject who was threatened was protesting AGAINST prop 8, it was obviously one of the YES on H8TER's who threatened him. Maybe the YES side should not hide behind their lies and finally get some balls and say, "We hate homosexuals, they are less than us, and we don't believe they should have the same rights. Therefore, Vote Yes on 8 and enjoy discriminating!" At least then the truth would be out there and the lies the Yes side are reporting could stop. Maybe all of the Yes side people should go to the No on 8 site and read about how the YES side is exploiting children in commercials against their parents' wishes and other lies. I frequent both sites and routinely see how the Yes side manipulates what is said and is done. The most recent being a mailer about Obama. Even his own committee has come out and protested it. Obama has come straight out and said that Prop 8 is wrong and discriminatory. The key thing with prop 8 is that it is DISCRIMINATION!!!!!

Posted by goldeneye on November 2, 2008 at 6:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You have to be careful about these stories. One side or the other will sometimes make false claims or vandalize their own signs to vilify the other side. Let's just stick to the issues and vote for or against an issue based on the facts.

Posted by heregoes on November 2, 2008 at 6:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

While I do not condone what happened - I do have to say that I was appalled at what I witnessed at this intersection.

It is one thing to stand at the corner and hold your sign up to promote your viewpoint - which I have no problem with.

It is quite another to skip up and down the sidewalk and run across the street each time the light changes and create a safety issue and a public nuisance.

I also have to say - a sign has NEVER changed my mind on anything. Do these campaigns actually think people will change their minds by seeing a sign on the side of the road or having someone thrust it thier face - NOT!

What a waste of paper and money. I am so sick of the thousands of signs I see posted everywhere. Yes, free speech, but who is going to clean it up. We all know those signs will still be there weeks after election day - ugh!

Posted by handyhood on November 2, 2008 at 6:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mmlove38- You know, I had a whole lot of things already typed to say to you, but I deleted them. I realized that anything I said would not penetrate your walls, and that you are going to believe everything you want to believe. My religious views are not going to be respected by you or others like you, so it just makes no sense in trying to explain it to you. I don't hate anyone, but I love the lord more than I love my own life, and my lord has said that homosexuality is wrong, and for me to accept it is also wrong. So, you see, I have to vote yes on 8 or I am in danger of loosing my soul. God is good. God is great. All who think this, vote yes on 8.

Posted by jz_4_JC on November 2, 2008 at 6:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes on 8

Posted by handyhood on November 2, 2008 at 6:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ill be happy when the voting is over with and people can go back to being screwed by the government. Every election we hear the same things, I'm going to change this, I'm going to change that. I promise this or that. When it is over, NOTHING changes! When are we going to learn? I am even tired of the prop 8 thing. The irony of that is, Nov. 4th is my wedding anniversary! Yes on 8 and be kind to others regardless of your views :~)

Posted by huntram on November 2, 2008 at 6:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Ayub said the teen declined to press charges, so police are not proceeding with an investigation."
Sometimes people make up stories to get sympathy and make the other side appear evil. Remember the woman that said a guy sliced a "B" into her face because she had a McCain sticker on her car? Turned out to be false!
Wouldn't you press charges if someone threatened you with a knife?
Either way, we ALL condemn acts as reported!
mmlove38, you need to lose some of your anger, and realize that people can have opposing views without being bad people.
You only talk about the Yes on 8 people being decpetive. From your spin I can see how you feel that way, but if we take off the one sided glasses, we would see that the No on 8 campaign is not exactly telling the truth!
They have Jack O'Connell claiming that kids will not be taught about same sex marraige, and yet in California Education Code Section 51933:

(7) Instruction and materials shall teach respect for marriage and committed relationships.

No may, but SHALL teach, as Mayor Newsome from San Fran said, "It's gonna happen whether you like it or not!

Secondly, It restores the definition of marriage to what the vast majority of California voters already approved and what Californians agree should be supported, not undermined.

Thirdly, It overturns the outrageous decision of four activist Supreme Court judges who ignored the will of the people.

Finally, but not last, if a church refuses to marry a same sex couple who is a member of their church, it opens the door for a lawsuit. And yes I know the state supreme court says that will not happen, but if a same sex marraige is identical under the law as a marraige between a man and a woman, it will only be a matter of time before that happens!
Common Sense!

Posted by interestedcitizen on November 2, 2008 at 7:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

handyhood - You can love your God and worship how you believe in your heart. That's one of the great things about this country, freedom of religion. You can talk about it all you want. That's freedom of speech. How dare you exercise those and at the same time believe you have the right to deny someone else some of the same rights you have. You can still obey your God without imposing your views on everyone else. Simply don't marry someone of your own gender. Keep your religion out of my constitution.

Posted by ironwoman on November 2, 2008 at 7:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes on 8!!

Posted by handyhood on November 2, 2008 at 7:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

intrestedcitizen- How dare I? Didn't you read my post thoroughly? The Lord has said that those who accept sin, sin as well. That's how I dare. You can believe whatever you want, as for me? I will follow the will of God, who is the ultimate power. In the final days, those who follow Christ will be persecuted for their beliefs. Blessed are those who are persecuted in my name saith the Lord, for theirs is the Kingdom. So you see, it is good for me to be harassed for my beliefs. This is another reason for me to vote yes.

Posted by wzupnow on November 2, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Pulling a knife out on anyone is not the way to go. I don't agree with that at all.
Marriage is not what it used to be. We are in a society where it's okay for couples to get married or divorced in a drive thru. The media has exposed everyone to celebrities getting married and divorced in the same week. The average marriage doesn't last anymore. Marriages are up, family values are down and thats a fact. Im not saying all marriages are doomed, but a lot of them are. I have been happily married for 9 years and it has been tough, but I love it. I have watched many of my friends marry and divorce after a few years. To hear that someone is getting a divorce is not a shock to people these days. If gay people wanna get married, let them. Heck there marriages might last longer than most straight marriages. They deserve to be with whom ever they want. What's next, no interacial marriages. There has to be some thing better for us to focus our attention on.

Don't forget to VOTE on all the issues, it's important.

Posted by JWFOXNEWS on November 2, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

NO on 8

Posted by Tom_Johnston on November 2, 2008 at 7:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Passage of Prop 8 does nothing functional for heterosexual marriage. To assert that this measure "restores marriage" or any other such nonsense is just spin at best, and most likely a lie.

The same arguments were made some 40-50 years ago in many communities about inter-racial marriage and they were clearly untrue. It was all about fear and prejudice, and that is true today as well.

If there is a threat to marriage it isn't from gay people, it's from the straight ones that can't stay married.

Prop 8 needs to be defeated plain and simple.

Posted by LibertyLover on November 2, 2008 at 7:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

pretty soon you yes on 8 people will want to bring back segregation too

Posted by interestedcitizen on November 2, 2008 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Handyhood, be kind to others regardless of your views. Words to live by.

Posted by mmlove38 on November 2, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Handyhood, I can completely and understand your beliefs. But that's what this whole thing is NOT about. We have a constitution for just this reason, for separation or church and state. Your religion might not believe in homosexuality, but there are those congregations that do. Why is it ok for you to FORCE your religious beliefs on everyone that believes it is ok for homosexuals to be with the one they love in a recognized and committed relationship? What you should really ask yourself is if I was forbidden to marry the person I love because of a select few, is that right? Leave your religious beliefs out of it because it is God's right to judge us all, not yours. Let all homosexuals be judged by their God(s) and not by man; cause my Lord knows that I was created this way and did not choose to be discriminated and hated against.

Posted by handyhood on November 2, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

citizen- Have I been unkind:) I truly have not intended to be, and reading over my post I don't think I was. But, if you feel that I was unkind, I apologize:~) Today is the Lords Day and I must get myself to Church services where I am going to Fast and pray for our Country. You have a good day:)

Posted by US_Citizen on November 2, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not going to state which side I am on here because it is my own business. I will state I have never been swayed one way or the other by a sign or protesters. I agree these signs are a waste of paper and time. There are so many at each intersection you can't even read them. It is mind boggling and looks trashy. I have done my homework and I have made my decisions and this was done by careful evaluation on MY part based on MY beliefs not some stupid signs or a bunch of protesters going balistic.

Posted by mmlove38 on November 2, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Huntram - reference your school issue, I really appreciate the fact you quoted the entire education code. Yes, if sex ed is taught in schools, then a school is required to teach "RESPECT about marriage and committed relationships." It is to TEACH RESPECT! Not indepth details about hetero and homosexual relationships. If a homosexual relationship was going to be taught, don't you think that would already be covered in the part of the education code stating "and committed relationships?" Then wouldn't it already be taught in schools? I believe all of these types of subjects should be taught at home and know that the OPT OUT law for California does work and if you don't want your child to learn about sex, don't enroll them in sex ed. However, a child should be taught that a MONOGAMOUS relationship, whether be marriage or a committed relationship, is what makes a strong family. If you want to protect marriage, ban divorce, which is also forbidden in the bible.

Posted by amomfirst41 on November 2, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ditto, wzupnow. And I thought Republicans want less gov't intervention, not more. NO ON 8!!!

Posted by John_Galt on November 2, 2008 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Question - if homosexuals were allowed the same rights, priviledges and responsibilities as marriage but it had a different name, would that satisfy the No on 8 groups? Just curious.

Posted by bogeybob on November 2, 2008 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have gay friends as well as straight friends. I do not hate anyone. We all believe what we believe. If prop 8 does not pass, where are the rights of the children who will be taught gay marriage in school? Do these young people have rights? As I have said in previous posts, I have no problem with gays getting married, but by institutions that condone it. I like what you said interestedcitizen. If you want religion out of constitutuion, then keep constitution out of religion.

Posted by amomfirst41 on November 2, 2008 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sounds like you're suggesting separate but equal...

Posted by amomfirst41 on November 2, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry -- my comment was to John_Galt.

Posted by interestedcitizen on November 2, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Handyhood, "be kind to others regardless of your views" were your own words, except you apply them selectively. What about being kind to same sex married couples? I don't mean to offend, just point out a discrepancy. I hope you have a good day too.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on November 2, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mmlove38 ,Its not about hating homosexuals its about the sacred word (marriage).
handyhood , Very well said!
interestedcitizen , I do not believe handyhood is pushing his or her religion on anyone. He or she is expressing thier feelings. Its called freedom of speech. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink . I also am on the same page with Handyhood. My religion and beliefs tell me its a sin and wrong....and I
will vote yes on 8. Thats my right. If you feel different then vote your way. But do not force us that believe its a sin to Sin against God.
wzupnow,Yes they can choose who they want to be with. Sin or no sin. But please keep marriage sacred. As for drive thru marriages, hmm where is that taking place in sin City Vegas !
LibertyLover ,Now that is one of the sillyest comments I have read. Most of my family are inter-racial. No where does it say in the Bible or the Constitution that inter-racial marriages can not be allowed. Thats just racist!
Use your head when voting (the one attached to your shoulders) and Vote Yes on 8!!!!!!

Posted by elephantpower on November 2, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This headline is different than the story. "Brandishing" a knife, is what the witness said. If someone in a car, with 2 license plates, really threatened someone, then the police do not need the witness to press charges, if the police think a crime happened. Since this was the day after Halloween, is it possible that a fake knife, or a sword, or any other Halloween weapon that I saw this weekend was what the witness saw inside the car?

Why didn't the Star get a quote from witnesses? Sounds like it was a lot of nothing. Some teenagers driving by with dozens of witnesses, plenty of cell phones to take a photo, lots of cameras, including cameras above the lights at this intersection. What was the description of the car, the license plate number, the occupants, and how large was the alleged weapon, and how was it "brandished"? Was the window up or down? Were voices heard? If a knife (plastic or real) was indeed held up inside a car, with the windows rolled up, by a bunch of silly teenagers, then such an alleged "threat" is very weak.

How much a threat could it have been, inside the car? Sounds like this story was blown up to try to make bad publicity. If there was a safety issue, then there would have been an arrest pronto. The police hang out at this intersection, at the gas station, keeping a presence to cool things down. There was no drama here.

Posted by nancy_4ever on November 2, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YES ON 8

Posted by amomfirst41 on November 2, 2008 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have to go to church now, too. Christians aren't all of one mind. NO ON 8!!

Posted by Deek56 on November 2, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Prop 8 is not about religion or rights. Prop 8 is not about equality or equal rights. It is not about discrimination against a class of people. It is not about denying homosexuals the ability to commit to one another. It is not about love or private relationships. It is not about bigotry or homophobia. It is not about sexual orientation or being born a certain way. It is not about race or the civil rights struggle. It is not about interracial marriage. It is not about heterosexuals and divorce. It is not about the separation of church and state. It is not even about religion....those are all red herrings.

What Prop 8 is about is a government endorsement for their relationships. They know that such endorsement will make homosexuality and their behavior appear just as normal as heterosexuality. That’s why the same-sex marriage movement has more to do with respect than rights....

Activists want same-sex marriage because they understand that government-backed same-sex marriage will validate and normalize homosexuality throughout society.

The key point here is “government-backed.” Homosexuals already can “marry” one another privately. There is just no government version of it. Nothing is stopping homosexuals from pledging themselves to one another in private same-sex marriage ceremonies. In fact, it is done all the time—there is an entire cottage industry for “gay” weddings...

Posted by wzupnow on November 2, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

AnnaWhaat, keep marriage sacred? That's the problem. Straight couples don't currently have to qualify to get married in this country. Anyone can do it and that's the problem. This is not the 60's or 70's where getting married was considered sacred and forever. Times have changed, divorce happens, drive thru marriages happen, over night wedding are being planned as we speak. Voting Yes on 8 in not going to stop change, gay people will still be gay and in our communities, deal with it.

You don't teach someone to be gay, that's just they way they were born. I was taught that the Lord has a hand in creating everyone, wouldn't you agree?

Posted by twbeem on November 2, 2008 at 8:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yeah I'm a christian republican and I voted no on 8. Civil rights are the rights of EVERYONE.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Who is smarter than a 5th grader?

Posted by mzb on November 2, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"God is good. God is great. All who think this, vote yes on 8." (lauging because handyhood thought long and hard about that one) makes me want to change my vote immediatly....NOT!!!!!

How so very nice your celebrating YOUR wedding anniversary (congrats) and at the same time destroying the marriages of couples you do not know and hurting their families. You are hurting their families and that will be okay with you but not for the majority of us... see ya at the polls----> NO ON 8!!!

Posted by dcsfancy on November 2, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Ayub said the teen declined to press charges, so police are not proceeding with an investigation" my thought is did he then make it up? if it was true why would you not press charges and have an investigation. Kind of like the bs story of the woman who carved a B in her face and claimed someone from barracks people did it.

Posted by ironwoman on November 2, 2008 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Can't wait until Wednesday. If this prop. passes, guarantee that some liberal attorneys will file a lawsuit based on discrimination and some liberal judges will overturn it anyway. So, who is not respected then? And speaking of hate, it's obvious that anti-8 people are full of hate toward those that are for it.

Posted by Brownpride on November 2, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

“I'm a supporter of gay rights. And not a closet supporter either. From the time I was a kid, I have never been able to understand attacks upon the gay community. There are so many qualities that make up a human being... by the time I get through with all the things that I really admire about people, what they do with their private parts is probably so low on the list that it is irrelevant.” -Paul Newman. The day gay people start robbing my house and shooting my friends is when I will start to care. - Me

Posted by mzb on November 2, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

umm helloooo IRONWOMAN, your "attempting" to take rights away from a huge group of Americans just because they are gay....so yeah you WILL have attorneys all over this and GOD BLESS the Liberal Judges that will overturn this... AGAIN if...and I say IF, Prop 8 passes.

So glad to live in America...
**I am a woman who can vote
(because we fought for that right)
**I can marry outside my race if I choose too(because we fought for that right)
**We may make history with the first African American President...why (because we fought for that right)
**AND NOW Gay and Lesbian Couples can "REMAIN" married...why
(BECAUSE WE WILL FIGHT FOR THAT RIGHT)
NO on 8

thank you =]

Posted by mmlove38 on November 2, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To all of you that think this was a made up story, like the lady that etched "B" into her cheek, in the State of California, brandishing a weapon is a misdemeanor crime. This means that the victim decides whether or not they want to waste their time with the whole court scene and the law enforcment time with the investigation. You would be amazed how many victims of misdemeanor crimes back out from prosecuting a suspect after the law enforcement agency has spent their time investigating and making a case. All of that is for nothing if the victim doesn't want prosecution on a misdemeanor. So, before we start accusing the victim of making a false complaint, maybe he just thought it wasn't a priority after his adrenaline simmered down.

Posted by rebel123 on November 2, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Can we once and for all make it clear: RELIGIOUS VIEWS ARE NOT RELEVANT WHEN DECIDING CIVIL LAW!

No on 8. Please keep your religious beliefs, your god and your bible in church. They have no place in politics.

Posted by vcsexplorer11 on November 2, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No on Prop 8,

First of all prop 8 does protect the sanctity of marriage. With over 50% of marriages ending in divorce we all are destroying the sanctity of marriage. In fact many marriages end with the man or women cheating on each other.

Gays are not getting married in church, but at city hall, so it doesn't affect the sanctity of religion. Just a contract.

As far as gay marriage be taught in school, I question that it was ever taught in Massachusetts and I am sure that it would never be taught here, so go ahead and believe the spin.

The real questions we should ask is "without choice what is left? and "Is this a hate agenda or a religious battle?"

It appears art mimics life. This reminds we of the movie "V for Vendetta"

Posted by vcsexplorer11 on November 2, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I meant to say:

No on Prop 8,

First of all prop 8 DOESN'T protect the sanctity of marriage. With over 50% of marriages ending in divorce we all are destroying the sanctity of marriage. In fact many marriages end with the man or women cheating on each other.

Gays are not getting married in church, but at city hall, so it doesn't affect the sanctity of religion. Just a contract.

As far as gay marriage be taught in school, I question that it was ever taught in Massachusetts and I am sure that it would never be taught here, so go ahead and believe the spin.

The real questions we should ask is "without choice what is left? and "Is this a hate agenda or a religious battle?"

It appears art mimics life. This reminds we of the movie "V for Vendetta"

Posted by mmlove38 on November 2, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ironwoman - for information, I don't hate the Yes on people, though I do call them H8ter's. I don't discriminate against people for who they are or their beliefs. It's what makes us different, unique, and beneficial to society. What I feel about Yes people is saddness and hurt. Because when I drive by people protesting in my neighborhood, they are saying you don't deserve to have the right to marry; You are not worthy of that. That saddens me. My neighbor who has befriended me and my partner, not us befriending her, has spoken openly and supportively about us, our relationship, and friends she knows that are gay. I got tired of seeing all of the Yes on 8 signs in my neighborhood and placed a No on 8 sign in my yard. My neighbor placed a Yes on 8 sign in her yard and has since, stopped talking to my partner and I. And you say the Yes'ers don't hate. My neighbor can't even look at us.

Majority of the Yes'ers I have talked to say they support gay couples having the same rights, but they don't want it called marriage. A marriage license is a piece of paper issued by the state to legally recognize a committed couple. If you want the religious aspect of it, then get married in your church, synagogue, temple...for the religious sacrament. Otherwise, the license issued from the state is just the same as any other state issued license. Vote NO on 8 and help keep religious opinion out of the constitution.

Posted by coach04 on November 2, 2008 at 10:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

NO on 8
NO on 8
NO on 8
NO on 8
NO on 8
NO on 8

Everyone should have rights to marrie who they prefer.

I HOPE THEY YOUR WISH COMES TRUE AND A NO on 8 IS PASSED. GOD BE WITH ALL OF YOU.

Posted by littlepowers on November 2, 2008 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No on 8.

And Jon, (reply from question way up there)

Even if given the same exact rights as married couples. Calling it something different separates them from those who can call themselves married.

It screams, "Your different and not normal and that's why we wont recognize your marriages".

Posted by John_Galt on November 2, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rebel - they have a right to use their religion to decide their vote and a similar right to express and exercise that religion. They have a right to vote and whatever they use to justify their vote is their right. It is up to the government, primarily the legislature, to write laws that do not endorse a particular religious point of view, however, laws and religious beliefs may intersect.

Posted by ibeam on November 2, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Deek56 makes some strong points that I can align myself to.

I don't believe Prop 8 has anything to do with rights or discrimination or religion.

It's all about words and how words shape ideas. By controlling words you can control ideas.

I think George Orwell, or whatever his real name was, would be ecstatic to watch his theories play out.

The homosexual community feels compelled to play the rules instead of the game. Careful what you wish for.

Posted by allycalifornia on November 2, 2008 at 10:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No on 8. Maintain civil rights. Keep church and state separate. Your church may not be my church, so whose church do we choose to make the rules?

Posted by rebel123 on November 2, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

John_Galt: it is unacceptable to mount an argument for or against a civil law based on religious beliefs, period. Any argument of law that is based on religious beliefs serves only those who share those religious beliefs. That is why we separate the church and the state. If you can't come up with an argument that does not fall back on religion, then perhaps you have no argument. This prop 8 initiative is based predominately on religious beliefs and is financed almost completely by the Mormon Church. That would make me wonder how the church expects to retain their tax exempt status. If they want to play politics, then they can pay taxes. Otherwise, keep your god and your religion in church and out of the government. To do otherwise subjects us to a theocracy and then we end up trying to decide who has the "right" god, which bible is the "right" bible, which religion is the "only" religion. Clearly that is against all that our constitution stands for.

Posted by LoopbackIP on November 2, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

handyhood 6:42 wrote :
"So, you see, I have to vote yes on 8 or I am in danger of loosing my soul. God is good. God is great. All who think this, vote yes on 8."

Weren't the same mantras chanted by Al Qaeda terrorists as they were crashing jets into buildings ? So let's get this straight : we're spending billions in wars to stop religious fanatics from the Middle East while allowing the same types to fester in our own backyard.

Posted by cha on November 2, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is not a religious issue, or SHOULD NOT be. The whole point is discrimination. Lots of people didn't think blacks, jews, women, etc... deserved anything either. Then came the "well, they have the same rights, we'll just call it by a different name" or "the blacks have the same school, they just can't come to ours". It's what came to be called separate but equal, and it's not equality under the constitution. Should we just go back in time? Start taking away more rights for more people? Jeez people, look past religion and the presumption to know what God or Jesus would want. No one knows for sure. If you do believe in God, that's great for you. But the bible was written by fallible men who may have had their own agenda. See this for what it is. Taking away fundamental rights for anyone is discrimination. It's not right. As for the children, it's not going to make them gay. Gay isn't a taught or learned "behavior". This can only show them tolerance and that no one is different under the law - as the United States should be.

Posted by mzb on November 2, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

yes...i hear ya wdwinder.
My cousin was ready to get married, had her dress fitted and was ready to go!
Then the Morman pastor had his little "counseling session" with her soon to be husband about how he couldn't marry my cousin because she was not a member of their church (my cousin was pregnant too) so this pastor tells him to marry within the church and my cousin who was under the age of 18 was left alone and so she decided to give that child up for adoption. He is with a great family and is now in his teens. Moral of the story is...
Religion is a choice, so is marriage and those two should be seperate because noone has a right to tell anyone who they can marry or who they can love!

Posted by mzb on November 2, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

it's 11:11 and I made a wish!

NO on 8...yay!!!!!

Posted by avuncular2008 on November 2, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Question - if homosexuals were allowed the same rights, priviledges and responsibilities as marriage but it had a different name, would that satisfy the No on 8 groups? Just curious."

No, it wouldn't. It implies a lesser status, that gays are not "something" enough to warrant marriage.

Either way, I believe this will go back to the courts because it's a civil rights issue; eventually gay marriage will be legal and accepted, as it is in Canada. There, people continue to live their lives, practice their religion. Canada remains a pretty well-adjusted society.

I bet 98% of people have decided already. Those of you that haven't, please vote no on 8. It would be writing discrimination into the constitution.

If you don't like homosexuality because of your religious beliefs, that's absolutely your right. The issue is not religious, though, it's secular and civic.

As for what your children will learn, I would respectfully say that the yes on 8 people out there are telling their children the following: "While God loves everyone and is merciful, He does not condone the behavior of gays; you and I, being on His side, will protect his will but at the same time "forgive" those who are not as moral as we are. Therefore, they do not deserve the right to be married. And in the end, they will be judged." You have the right to believe such things, obviously, but at least be intellectually honest and accept that you are teaching discrimination based on sexual preference, and that you are teaching it to your children. And when the normal (5%-10%) of your kids end up being homosexual, they will have a very tough time getting over the self-hatred.

Finally, is it possible that you have made up a God that is involved so much in human affairs? Is it possible that the God you perceive inhabits mostly human characteristics? There might be differences in the form of it, but in content, your God and the Muslim's Allah function so much of the time in the same way: judgment, vengeance, mercy--but only for those who act the "right" way.

Thank you and have a great day.

NO ON 8

Posted by sparks240 on November 2, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My guess is that every divorce lawyer in the state, no matter their religious beliefs, will be voting no on 8. They want more customers.

Posted by ibeam on November 2, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's not about discrimination.

It's not about religion.

Yell and scream all you want. I'm not buying it.

If you want to buy into this court driven legislation that same-sex marriage is somehow the same as the long standing traditional notions of marriage then you're opening the door to all kinds of Orwellian shenanigans and who knows where that'll end.

Careful what you wish for.

Posted by george1234 on November 2, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mmlove38..."We hate homosexuals, they are less than us, and we don't believe they should have the same rights. Therefore, Vote Yes on 8 and enjoy discriminating!" There! I said it. VOTE YES ON 8.

Posted by vcsexplorer11 on November 2, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ibeam,

Yes, the next thing people will do is marry animals.

That sheep looks sexy!!

Give me a break. Fear Mongor!!

Posted by mmlove38 on November 2, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

george1234 - thank you for your honesty, and I hope you feel at peace with yourself. And I'm very glad I don't know you. Thanks for the hate!

Posted by vcsexplorer11 on November 2, 2008 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ibeam,

The Ministry of Truth in George Orwells 1984 could as easily be a religious group in 2008 as it could be the senate or and other political organization who pushed their version of the truth.

This is also why I brought up "V fo Vendetta". A film where a futuristic totalitarian regime used the same hate and religion to mold their version of the truth. Careful what you wish for.

Posted by mzb on November 2, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

GEORGE !@#$ I mean 1234..ha!
I am so glad I don't know you as well. THANK YOU for your honesty and I am feel a bit sad you have to live your life feeling that way but it's okay because you have a loooong time to get use to it because Marriage will be a RIGHT for all Americans regardless of their sexual orientation.
YA HEARD THAT!

NO on 8
EQUALITY FOR ALL
That's what RIGHTS are all about!

Posted by ibeam on November 2, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just because you call it discrimination doesn't make it so.

Next you'll be telling me peace is war and work is freedom.

If prop 8 is defeated new terms will pop up like 'real marriage' and terms like 'gay marriage' will be thrown about still to distinguish between the two.

Homosexuality has been around a long time and will remain so for a long time. It will remain an aberration no matter how you dress it up and regardless if it's thought as a choice or genetic disposition or whatever cause is assigned. Neither good or bad. Just the way it is.

Posted by twbeem on November 2, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Its funny how some people have faith that a liberal judge will overturn this issue again. If anyone really knows what prop 8 is they would know this is a propisition to amend the state constitution making judges powerless to overturn it. Gay people aren't dangerous. If we are going to discriminate we should at least point it in the right direction. Would anyone object to taking rights away from sex offenders?

Posted by nojustice_justus on November 2, 2008 at 12:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If he felt threatened by the knife why didn't he hit him with his purse?

Posted by mishie358 on November 2, 2008 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

are all you people scared of gay people or that your childen know about gay people I have gay friends that have a teenage daughter and she is the best rounded young lady you would ever meet.Get real people prop 8 is taking away someones rights..I am a catholic and I voted No on 8 it is just wrong.. you need to not think of prop 8 as a gay thing and think of it as taking someones fundamental right to choice whom they want to spend ther life with...So vote No onProp 8 it is just wrong...

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 12:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That doesn't surprise me. These "Yes on 8" people are crazed. I, along with others that I know, would love to put a "No on 8" sign in front of our yards, but we're afraid these extremists will vandalize our yards or worse. They are some scary characters. It's like the Salem witch burnings all over again. Sadly, some things never change.

Posted by John_Galt on November 2, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rebel - I'm not using religion "to mount an argument for or against a civil law based on religious beliefs." I am mounting an argument for their opinion. Their opinion can be based on religion, tarot cards, astrology, legal case law, anything. As voters, they can base their opinion on anything they want. One of the unfortunate parts of a democracy is that any fool can vote (me included) and fools on either side of the aisle don't have to satisfy you or anyone with legal precedence or foundational case law.

Posted by NightLight on November 2, 2008 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think either side using schoolchildren in their argument is kind of ridiculous. What does it mean to "teach" marriage in school anyway, especially to children as young as the ones in commercials? It won't turn kids gay or straight who aren't already of that orientation. The commercial where the mom is horrified because her daughter is all excited because "a princess can marry a princess" is ridiculous. Kids that age aren't thinking sexual orientation. If anything, a girl reacting like that would be excited because to her it means she can "marry" her best friend in the cute, innocent way that kids talk of such things. It doesn't mean she'll be a lesbian when she grows up.

Posted by kosmoz13 on November 2, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

no on 8
let God be the judge

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kids are not going to pop up gay just because gays get married. It's not like the little gay cupid is going to shoot an arrow into them. People are what they are. I know this couple who have three kids. One was obviously gay from when he was about four and is now in his twenties. The other two are also adults now and heterosexual. An interesting thing about this is that the couple used to joke about obvious gay couples when they would see them. Like I said, people are for the most part born with their sexual orientation. So quit worrying about your kids.

I wonder how these "Yes on 8" people would treat their own kids if their kids announced that they were gay. And for those parents whose kids are gay but haven't told them yet, I'm sure your "Yes on 8" signs make them just want to die. Quit hating...the person you may be hating may be your own child.

Posted by ironwoman on November 2, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NighLight and jill- You don't think children can be easily influenced? They are very influenced and impressionable. How do you think kids join gangs and get into drugs? Because they are INFLUENCED and have low self-image. There are many teens right now that have sexual identity problems. Don't be so closed-minded or sure of yourselves that kids won't be affected by this.

I wonder, if this prop. doesn't pass, will gay prison inmates be allowed to marry in prison. Will they be allowed overnight visits with their spouses because they are married?

Posted by vcmann on November 2, 2008 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This article is about somebody threatening or attempting to injure or kill somebody for standing up against bigotry. It illustrates the hatred that is behind proposition 8.

Stop the LIES and the threats. Stop pretending that this is not about hate, nobody believes that.

No on 8

Posted by SueSue on November 2, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NO on 8
Next they will say (again) blacks & whites can't marry or Jews & Christians can't marry.
Let's move forward into the 21st century and be more concerned with our own lives. Who cares if gays want to get married!!! Get over it and move on to something a little more important like keeping our homes and taking care of our families in hard times.
Take our freedom of choice away, AGAIN!!!
If this issue offends the religious sect remember, God doesn't take sides.

Posted by JMama on November 2, 2008 at 2:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Those losers wasting their time and energy standing on street corners with they Yes on 8 signs obviously have way too much time on their hands.

It was only 41 years ago, 1967, when the U.S. Supreme Court outlawed state bans on interracial marriage. A majority of the states banned some or all interracial marriage. Even progressive California banned marriage between whites and blacks, Asians or Filipinos from 1850 to 1948. So basically only 60 years ago we saw the same type of bigotry and hatred (disguised as religion) as we do today with the gay marriage issue.

A close friend of mine is black and her spouse is white. Dozens of friends and coworkers of mine are in white/Asian marriages. 61 years ago it would have been illegal for them to be married in California. I would be troubled if any one of these people vote Yes on 8 knowing as it would be a major step BACKWARDS for all of our freedoms, regardless of race, skin tone, religion or sexual preferences.

Woman earned the right to vote in 1920. Civil rights came in 1964. Bans on interracial marriage came in 1967. Let's not go backwards in time.

Reality is reality, there are millions and millions of gay people in the U.S. and around the world. Let's not treat them any differently. They did not choose to be gay. Do not penalize them for it.

Lastly, to all you Yes on 8 supporters. Since you have so much time and money on your hands, why don't you divert it to something of benefit. Help out someone who can't make their mortgage payment or go do some community service or something.

Posted by interestedcitizen on November 2, 2008 at 2:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If this discussion here is any indication, It looks like most people will vote NO ON 8. That's good to know.

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 3 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"NighLight and jill- You don't think children can be easily influenced?"

Yeah, Ironwoman, I do. I think they can be influenced to be hateful just like their parents. And, frankly, I would rather see them gay than prejudice and hateful.

I like men. Always have, always will. All the female gay marriages in the world couldn't change that. The gay cupid arrow is not going to hit your children because others of the same sex get married.

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I wonder, if this prop. doesn't pass, will gay prison inmates be allowed to marry in prison. Will they be allowed overnight visits with their spouses because they are married?"

Ironwoman,

Sitting around and fantasizing about prison marriages, are we?

Posted by YES_on_PROP_8 on November 2, 2008 at 4:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BLESSINGS TO THOSE OF ALL FAITHS AND MAY EACH OF YOU FIND PEACE BY CASTING YOUR VOTE IN HONOR OF OUR ALMIGHTY GOD! THE CA CHURCH COALITION, AN ORGANIZATION REPRESENTING AND WORKING TOWARD THE PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE OF ALL FAITHS, UNANIMOUSLY DETERMINED LAST WEEK THAT IT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF ALL BELIEVERS TO

VOTE NO ON PROP 8

FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT GOD CREATED MAN IN HIS OWN LIKENESS AND THEREFORE HE HIMSELF MIGHT VERY WELL BE A HOMOSEXUAL. RELIGIOUS LEADERS OF ALL FAITHS AGREED THAT TO VOTE NO ON 8 IS THE ONLY RESPECTFUL AND HONORABLE WAY TO CAST A VOTE.

CHURCH LEADERS AND BELIEVERS OF ALL FAITHS HAVE RECEIVED THIS NEWS AND HAVE COMMITTED TO CASTING THEIR VOTE FOR GOD BY VOTING NO ON PROP 8

SPREAD THE WORD OF OUR ALMIGHTY GOD
VOTE NO ON PROP 8

AMEN

Posted by ironwoman on November 2, 2008 at 4:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jill, your sarcasm is not the greatest defense mechanism. You are truly in the dark when it comes to people having beliefs and fighting for them...oh I mean the ones that differ from yours.

Relax, just vote no and get on with your hateless life. I will vote yes and I will go on with my hateful life, according to your standards.

Posted by chumash1962 on November 2, 2008 at 4:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YES ON 8

Posted by vcmann on November 2, 2008 at 5:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh no, Yes on 8....

you have confused me...

do you mean....

No on 8?

(that's the family values vote)

... Thank you, I agree...

No on 8

Posted by kidshaveavoice on November 2, 2008 at 5:41 p.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by UCSBguy on November 2, 2008 at 6:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

handyman "In the final days, those who follow Christ will be persecuted for their beliefs. Blessed are those who are persecuted in my name saith the Lord, for theirs is the Kingdom."

Wow that is a loving god huh.

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 6:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ironwoman,

I'm just fine with people having beliefs different from mine. The problem is when you start forcing your beliefs on others, trying to make others live according to your beliefs and controlling what other people do. You don't believe in gay marriage. Fine. Don't marry a woman. But don't try to take away the rights of others whose love lives are none of your business.

There was a time when women couldn't vote and blacks had absolutely no rights at all. Whether it's race, sex or sexual preference, it's discrimination.

I've already mailed out my no on 8 vote.

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 6:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

UCSBguy,

No kidding!

Posted by UCSBguy on November 2, 2008 at 7:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jill I agree. I don't understand why they say marriage is a traditional thing. No it's not... with that logic, then correct me if I'm wrong with this..

It was a tradition for women not be able to vote. It was a tradition when black people have no rights.

These people just have to accept that there are heterosexual and homosexual people.

Besides, think about all the gay wedding license fees and divorces it'll follow.. Wouldn't that help our economy?

Posted by live_for_purpose on November 2, 2008 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My kids will never see the inside of a public school classroom. Gay marriage is just 1 of the reasons why, whether Prop. 8 passes or not.

I don't think marriage is a religious issue in terms of Prop. 8. If marriage were a religious issue, then California and every other state has had an establishment of religion ever since they were founded. It is a matter of the family code.

Yes on 8!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes on 8!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by kidshaveavoice on November 2, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

COME ON PEOPLE!!!! DON'T YOU RESPOND TO ANYONE, EVEN IF THEIR A KID!!!

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 7:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

UCSBguy,

Exactly! Just because something is doesn't mean it should be. And thankfully, many past traditions are no more.

If some of these people had their way, they would want to control how people dressed, how they wore their hair, what music they listened to. They'd probably even try to outlaw dancing. Remember "Footloose" and the evil dancing?

Posted by DDJ on November 2, 2008 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A quote from the common sense, non-partisan proud (part Native) American Will Rogers from the 1920's: "We will never have true civilization until we have learned to recognize the rights of others."
ALL others....NO on Prop 8

Posted by what805 on November 2, 2008 at 9:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

NO ON 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by ilovethousandoaks on November 2, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

YES folks seem to believe that marriage is only supposed to be between a man and a woman and they want their kids to know that society doesn't approve of gays grabbing onto marriage.

NO people want everyone to have access to having marital status if they want it.

They both seem to think quite a bit of marriage when the past few decades have shown that for most of Americans, marriage doesn't work out in the long run.

There sure is a lot of emotional investment in a statistically flawed institution!

Posted by Ms_MoorPark on November 2, 2008 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

RESTORE- To bring back into existence.
Does this mean that marriage is tarnished? So if it has been MAN and WOMEN since the beginning of time... I come to the conclusion that it is MAN and WOMEN who have destroyed this sacred union. It is MAN and WOMEN who have taken these vows for granted. Ever think, that same couple marriages would actually RESTORE this sacred union and actually RESPECT the vows they are taking?
To comment on the "children" ... I was never taught about marriage in school. Marriage is learned in the home and it has nothing to do with a MAN and a WOMEN. It is learning TOLERANCE, RESPECT, LOVE... Our children are not going to learn how to be gay. Children are born gay. This issue will be around forever. I'd prefer my kids to be better than the past generations. Discrimination only has one purpose. VOTE NO 8.

Posted by 805Nana_1 on November 2, 2008 at 10:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's what I think is funny. Many of the Yes on 8 people who are bringing the religious aspect into this issue will probably also be voting for McCain. A man who cheated on and left his disabled wife, for a trophy wife. A fornicater and adulter. What do you think the Almighty will think about that? I guess it will be ok to be a hypocrite in that case.

Posted by ConcernedResident on November 2, 2008 at 10:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If it was discrimination before this vote, it will still be discrimination after the vote.

God loves ALL His children. That is only one reason why I am voting NO on 8. God created everyone and everything. He loves us.

NO on 8.

Posted by eclipsewatcher on November 2, 2008 at 10:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The folks in T.O. need to get a grip. And take a lesson from the fine folks of Ventura.

Just today, I drove past the County Government Center, where there was a group of demonstrators (mostly young people), carrying BOTH "Yes on 8" and "No on 8" signs. They were standing side-by-side, demonstrating peaceably.

As to the knife-wielding motorist in T.O., who yelled obscenities at the "No on 8" demonstrators, my advice to you would be to look up the word "Christian." I doubt that anywhere in that definition does it state that it is "Christian" to brandish a knife and/or shout obscenties at those who disagree with your beliefs, political or otherwise.

No on 8.

Posted by jill on November 2, 2008 at 11:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

805Nana_1,

Wow. I didn't realize that about John McCain! I assumed that they had been married from the start. I'm even more happy that I didn't vote for him now! What a hypocrit he is!

Posted by YES_on_PROP_8 on November 3, 2008 at 8:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SPREAD THE WORD TO BELIEVERS OF ALL FAITHS

HONOR OUR ALMIGHTY GOD

VOTE NO ON PROP 8

AMEN

Posted by MBDIAMOND on November 3, 2008 at 8:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YES ON 8-YOU BORE ME! GET A NEW LINE. OH I HEARD YOU HAVE A SPOT BEING SAVED FOR YOU IN THE FLAMING
HOT PLACE. HA HA

REMEMBER VOTE YES ON PROP 8
YES ON PROP 8

Posted by YES_on_PROP_8 on November 3, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JayAllen- your good work is already appreciated by all of us at the VCCACofCHURCHES and by OUR ALMIGHTY GOD.
To ease your confusion (which is shared by other bloggers) see our post this morning on the front page article "Voters Urged to Polls Even if Race Called Early"

MBDIAMOND- GOD'S WORK IS NEVER BORING TO THOSE WHO LOVE OUR ALMIGHTY FATHER!

YOU ARE A CHILD OF GOD AND WE HOP THAT YOU TOO WILL SEE THE LIGHT AND CAST YOUR VOTE IN HIS HONOR
(if not, we will continue to pray for your booty which will be roastin' in the afterlife!)

VOTE NO ON PROP 8
AMEN AND GOD BLESS!

Posted by Kreemac70 on November 3, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YES ON 8.

This isn't about discrimination...it is about the BIBLE.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

Posted by GDOG5 on November 3, 2008 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YES on 8
YES on 8
YES on 8
YES on 8

Posted by lunachick4life on November 3, 2008 at 12:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Remember the rights quoted have been fought for (and are now fighting for) came at a cost; American lives. More people died fighting in one battle, on one day, for for the freedom that has let a man, of African descent run for the office of President than in all of the last four years.

Please keep that in perspective when you view on WAR is used as a reason to vote for or against a candidate. WAR is never pretty...but has given you the right to fight, say and vote for what you believe.

Posted by cmpvr on November 3, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It scares me that so many people in this area are supportive of prop 8. What is next, separate drinking fountains for gays? And thanks Prop 8 supporters for littering almost every intersection along Lynn Rd. with your Yes on 8 signs over the weekend. From what I could tell, almost all were placed on public property, which is not allowed.

Posted by leahb78_1999 on November 3, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Camdaddy, so you know for certain a crime happened? I am assuming you were there then.

A whole bunch of McCain supporters initially claimed a crime happened when a lady falsly claimed an Obama supporter attacked her, but I am sure you knew for certain before anyone else did.

Oh, and speaking of hate... You do a pretty good job of that by comparing supporters prop 8 to the Taliban. When people start having their heads chopped off in the streets, then your comparison is valid. Until then, try not to be such a hater yourself, okay?

Posted by Soccergirl173105 on November 3, 2008 at 12:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi everyone on here. I was one of the people threatened. There were only three of us. Some of you people seem to think that we made this up or that we exaggerated. That's not true, if someone flicks a knife at you and stares you in the eyes, its scary. So we called the police. We also never said they were Yes on 8, maybe they didn't care at all, and were making a joke of the whole thing. This isn't a ploy against Yes on 8 and we had no idea it would get attention like this. We were scared for our lives, what if the guy came back? What would you do?. We decided not to press charges because we are in high school. Hello! Think about it, the person graduated recently and has friends at school still, pressing charges means that we would appear in court and the kid would know our names. I'm sorry that i wanted to be safe and not bothered by someone's friends.

Posted by anonamiss999 on November 3, 2008 at 1:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't get it. Voting NO ON PROP 8 won't change the sanctity of anyone's marriage. It won't change anyone's lives except those that wanted to get married and otherwise couldn't. It won't hurt you. The thing they should do is create a proposition that bans celebrity marriages. THEY are the ones ruining what a marriage is supposed to be. THEY are the ones teaching our children it's ok to marry one person one day, and sleep with someone else the next.
I've already voted... and it was an absolute no on 8. Everyone deserves to spend their lives with the one they love and have it recognized in everyone's eyes, not just their own.

Posted by caroldammit on November 3, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Soccergirl: I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I'm also sorry that your story has been appropriated and embelished and used to fan the flames of fear & controversy, with no regard for the effect on you & your friends (headsup- re-read the story regarding your concerns). I'm sorry you had to learn some ugly lessons so early in life, but I hope you can take them, along with your passion & idealism & continue trying to make a positive difference in the world. :)

Posted by jill on November 3, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"The day gay people start robbing my house and shooting my friends is when I will start to care. - BrownPride"

JayAllen,

You obviously missed BrownPride's point completely. He's saying that Gay marriage isn't going to hurt him because they're NOT going to rob his house and shoot his friends. *sigh*

no on h8te

Posted by caroldammit on November 3, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jay got it, Jill. He was appreciating BrownPrides statement & *sigh*ing at another poster here who goes by YES_on...
It's tough to keep up with with the MANY people commenting on this issue & their positions. ;o)

Posted by caroldammit on November 3, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, Twain. This (by which I believe you mean if Prop. 8 does not pass) means that nothing changes, no one is discriminated against, and two mentally competent, consenting human beings of legal age can still lawfully enter into the social contract called marriage and enjoy all the rights and responsibilities accorded thereby.

Posted by caroldammit on November 3, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Did it ever? ;o)

Posted by YES_on_PROP_8 on November 3, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

GOD WOULD NOT WANT ANYONE TO USE DEADLY FORCE TO MAKE THEIR POINT.

GOD WANTS US TO RESPECT EACHOTHER AND THE FACT THAT HE MIGHT BE A HOMOSEXUAL AND SIMPLY

VOTE NO ON PROP 8

ps-Carol- God would like YOU to change your username as THAT DOES OFFEND HIM!!!!

Posted by jill on November 3, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry JayAllen.

Posted by UCSBguy on November 3, 2008 at 7:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That's nice YES_on_PROP_8..
You shouldn't say such things about your god about using deadly force since if you recall, your god was the one who used deadly force ALL THE TIME in the old testament. He's a petulant, angry, and childish god.

Ohh I'm going to command this gullible person who talks to burning trees to kill those stupid drunk people, rape the women, and kill the children.

Ooooh I'm gonna flood everything to make my point.. Kill all those children because their parents are bad creatures so therefore, their children are bad too.

Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing

Posted by jill on November 3, 2008 at 7:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Does this mean if a person loves their animal or children, they should be allowed to marry? What is the difference? They have feelings to. Since marriage is not sacred anymore, why not?" - Twain

Yes, Twain, because a consenting adult is sooo much like an animal and a child. And like marriage between men and women is so sacred. The divorce rate in the U.S. is almost 50 percent. And that doesn't include the couples who stay in miserable marriages torturing themselves and their kids. Not to mention cheating, spousal abuse and murder. Yeah...real sacred.

Posted by YES_on_PROP_8 on November 3, 2008 at 7:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ucsbguy- sorry to say, but you are very likely going to a hot flaming place unless you let that bitterness against OUR ALMIGHTY GOD evaporate from your angry soul.

IT'S NOT TOO LATE, YOU CAN START TOMORROW BY
VOTING NO ON PROP 8

BLESSINGS TO YOU
AND WE WILL PRAY FOR YOUR SALVATION

NO ON PROP 8
AMEN!!!!

Posted by jill on November 3, 2008 at 7:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

UCSBguy, so true! I actually cut out an article that set out the numerous acts of violence and murder in the Bible. I personally think it's a great piece of fiction, but it's interesting to see the different - and convenient - ways people interpret and misinterpret it to suit their agendas.

For a good laugh, click on George Carlin's take on religion below. It's great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwK...

Posted by ironwoman on November 3, 2008 at 7:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jill, speak for your own marriage.

Posted by jill on November 3, 2008 at 7:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Peanut gallery! *sigh*

Posted by mind_riot on November 3, 2008 at 9:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Twain,
Please change your moniker as you are an insult to the name.

Posted by UCSBguy on November 3, 2008 at 9:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Twain: "Does this mean if a person loves their animal or children, they should be allowed to marry"

That's same reason bestiality is illegal because your dog can't give consent even if he licks your favorite places. Children do get married in other places. It's weird in America but not weird in other places. Arranged marriage is one example perhaps?

Posted by leahb78_1999 on November 3, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That is an interesting point UCSBguy. I have heard that in parts of Europe, the age of consent is as low as 12 years old. Just because the American culture does not look at pre-teen sex as a acceptable many cultures do, even "westernized" cultures.

Posted by Bonita_MoniQuita805 on November 4, 2008 at 12:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

YES ON 8!

Posted by graceka on November 4, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

NO ON 8!!! I can't say this enough...and being asian, I know how discrimination feels. It ain't great! NO ON 8!

Posted by NightLight on November 4, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Soccergirl, I'm sorry for what happened! I'm glad you're okay, you were right to call the police.

Posted by jill on November 4, 2008 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For all of you who voted yes on 8, a time will come in your life where you will not be treated fairly or equally or made to feel like a second-class citizen. Maybe it will happen at work. Maybe you won't be treated fairly in a court case. When that time comes, think about how you voted today and how you made others feel like second-class citizens.

Posted by leahb78_1999 on November 4, 2008 at 9:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Most Mormons already know how that feels. You get used to it, and eventually you don't even think about it anymore.

Posted by UCSBguy on November 5, 2008 at 4:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hahaha that's true leah. Jill no need for guilt trips, they're already dead inside! hahaha

Posted by jill on November 5, 2008 at 1:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

UCSBguy,

I'm thankful for people like you who "get it." It helps me know that there is some sanity and compassion in the world. Take care.

Posted by wonderman on November 5, 2008 at 10:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BOTTOM LINE PEOPLE:

Mother earth does NOT have all men or all women, men and women were put on the earth to multiply and that can only happen (are you ready)....... between a man and a woman.
Homanity CAN AND WILL NOT exist without women and men having intimate love with each other.
Gay community, remember that a man and a woman created you, without that you would cease to exist. Somthing to think about

Posted by ValerinaS on November 7, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's so funny to me, every hardcore christian I know says how "persecuted" they are, just like Jesus was....

Looks like they're the ones busy persecuting and judging... aren't you supposed to leave that up to your God??

There is DEFINITELY a seperation of church and state for a very good reason... I haven't heard a reason WHY homosexuals shouldn't be allowed to marry other than for religious reasons. We are not to be held to your religion's rules, it is a government contract, which means we are all equal, regardless of what your God says....

Do something about it all those against H8!!!

http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130...

Sign the petition. This isn't going to stand, because we're not going to stand for discrimination.