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County recruiters locate plenty of young people to join the military
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Four recruits join military ranks
Staff Sgt. Lee Lewis, U.S. Army
Michelle Christopher, Army recruit
James Lee / Special to The Star "It's one of the hardest jobs in the military right now," Sgt. Lee Lewis said of recruiting for the Army. He speaks to a student while visiting Hueneme High School in May.
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James Lee / Special to The Star Sgt. Lee Lewis, a 28-year-old Iraq war veteran and father of two, swings his daughter, Karisma, during a recent trip to the public playground at Chumash Park in Ventura.
Wandering the campus at Hueneme High School before graduation, Lee Lewis, a tall Army sergeant recruiter, spots Jessica Solorio as she slips out of class.
"What's up?" he says, giving her a grin and reaching out to shake her hand.
But for his uniform, Lewis, with his slang, swagger and smile, looks like any other student at the school where he graduated a decade earlier.
But this isn't idle chatter. Lewis is on a quest.
Picking up on a conversation they've been having for much of the school year, Solorio, an 18-year-old senior with long, wavy, dark hair and a red-striped shirt, tells Lewis, "My mom wants me to, but I'm scared."
Lewis stands up straight and shifts to a more somber adult tone. "Well, I could sit down and talk with you and your mom," he says. "Would you be cool with that?"
He hands her his card and points to his cell number. "Give me a call, and we'll set it up or I'll call you."
High school hallways don't look much like a frontline for one of the military's most important missions, but for recruiters this is the battleground to find new enlistees.
While it might be difficult to rack up big numbers — especially in more affluent areas such as Ventura County, where kids tend to have more options — recruiters here say they're finding plenty of young people to join. Many are lured by cash and educational incentives that most military branches use to sweeten the deal. The prospect of death or injury, the main drawback.
Expects to go far in Army
The Star followed a handful of 17-, 18- and 19-year-olds who have enlisted in the Army or Marines, signing up to be in uniform for the next few years.
"My friends at school are either going to Ventura College or Moorpark College, and I would have done that, too," said Michele Christopher, a diminutive 17-year-old who shipped off to Army basic training at Fort Jackson, S.C., 10 days after graduating from Camarillo High School.
The articulate teen is just over 5 feet tall and looks too young to drive. She is the only high school student among the 10 people Lewis has recruited since he was assigned the task last summer.
Lewis expects she's going to go far in the Army.
Christopher jokes that the strong voice she developed in high school choir might serve her well if she becomes a drill instructor.
Enlisting as a duty
Her decision has something to do with tradition — her father is in the Navy — but Christopher said it also has to do with not wanting to do what everyone else does after graduation.
"I could have gone to community college and matriculate up to a four-year university, or take a gap year and work, but I'm really burned out at school," said Christopher, whose grades, aptitude with languages and high scores on an Army skills tests qualified her for a job as a crypto-linguist.
"I'd like to enjoy learning again, and the Army is going to pay me to learn languages, which is what I want to do," she said.
Some recruits see enlisting as a duty. Some see it as their only option out of dead-end jobs. Others, such as Christopher, made the choice because it was so different from the path their friends are taking.
It didn't hurt that Christopher qualified to receive more than $35,000 in enlistment bonuses, which will be paid over her six-year enlistment term.
"They see an opportunity," said Lewis, a military police officer who served two tours in Iraq and received a Bronze Star. "They see a chance to get on with things."
Even though the Iraq war is unpopular with a majority of Americans, the military reportedly has had no shortage of young men and women willing to put on uniforms.
"They say we have an all-volunteer Army," said Doug Smith, of the U.S. Army Recruiting command in Fort Knox, Ky. "But I like to say it's an all- recruited force."
With a lot of money, canny marketing and a legion of new recruiters, the Army, Marines, Air Force and Navy have met or exceeded their recruiting goals in the past year.
In its proposed budget, the Department of Defense is seeking $20.5 billion for recruiting next year, double what it spends now or about five times what was allocated in 2003.
With bigger bonuses, upping the age limit from 35 to 42 and relaxing the rules to allow in a small number of people with felony convictions, the Army has expanded the number of people in the standing Army, said Smith.
Even changing the advertising slogan from Army of One to Army Strong has helped, he said.
'It's a lot of hard work'
The success seems to defy popular opinion. A recent Gallup poll showed that 63 percent of Americans say the war in Iraq was a mistake. Pollsters say that percentage is notable because it exceeds the 61 percent who said in May 1971 that the Vietnam War was a mistake.
On average, the Army must recruit 5,500 new enlistees every month to meet its goal of 80,000 a year, which keeps the Army standing at 500,000 strong. The Marines' goal is 1,500 a month, but the corps has been able to exceed that target. There are a little more than 200,000 Marines.
As with every other branch of the military, the Marines must find someone to fill the boots of troops who leave when their commitment are up.
"We're doing very well on enlistments," said Marine Col. Jim Jamison, Force Marine Officer for the commander of Naval Air Forces.
Every year the Marines "disgorge 40,000" enlistees into civilian life. Replacements have been found without the incentives offered by other services, relying instead on the Spartan-like image of the Marine Corps.
But all branches of the military depend on recruiters to cultivate young recruits.
Smith, of the U.S. Army Recruiting command, noted that this year marks the 35th anniversary of the ending of the draft.
"It's a lot of hard work, and recruiters are the backbone of that effort," he said.
A powerful draw for some
Dressed in his desert camouflage uniform, his hair cut high and tight, Lewis, a 28-year-old Iraq war veteran and father of two, is back for another go at Hueneme High School.
"Why aren't you in class?" he asked Verenice Chan, 17, who was strutting past wearing black Ugg boots.
"'Cause I'm cool," said Chan, a ring in her lip and a handbag marked with "Death before Dishonor" slung on her shoulder.
She's interested in enlisting but admitted that the Army might be tough for her, "because I don't wake up before 10."
Casey Pruitt, 18, was asked when walking by what kind of student he is. His response: "The kind who doesn't fit in."
Tall and quiet, Pruitt said he would like to be a pilot but realizes he'd have to go to college.
"You know we're the only service that's high school to flight school," said Lewis, who then looked up Pruitt on a database of students who have taken the ASVAB, a career interest and skills test.
It showed Pruitt posted a high score. Lewis made a note to contact him again.
Continuing his quest, Lewis peeked into a history class during a break. He talked with Lisa Ekstrom, a 17-year-old cheerleader who is thinking about joining the Army or enrolling at Ventura College.
Her brother is in the Air Force.
"He is telling me not to do it at all because you're always doing what someone else wants you to do," Ekstrom said of her brother, while her friend Leilani Sterzenbach, 18, looked on.
But Ekstrom is considering it because she could earn money for college and get some training. As she talks about the possibility, Sterzenbach shakes her head in mild disappointment.
"My brother is telling me to just go to college and get financial aid," Ekstrom said.
Later, Lewis greeted students eating lunch, visited classrooms and bumped knuckles with a senior he knows. He appeared about as laid back as the students.
He relates to them as equals but approaches life from the perspective of a decorated combat veteran who knows the responsibility attached to a military uniform and job. It's a powerful draw for some.
Recruiting is difficult
Niko Servin, a 17-year-old whose pants are tucked into thigh-high boots, walked up to Lewis while holding a model of an Abrams tank.
"Hey, Sgt. Lewis, I want to drive one of these," he said.
Lewis smiles and shakes his head.
Despite the jovial banter with students, Lewis knows recruiting is difficult.
"Is it stressful? I wouldn't say it's stressful; that sort of depends on how a person handles that sort of thing," said Lewis. "But yeah, it's one of the hardest jobs in the military right now."
Since returning home to recruit, Lewis has had no luck at Hueneme High School.
"I'm not really sure why," he said. "I'm working on it."
Lewis often gets kids interested in signing up, but contact stops when the parents find out.
"They think right away that their son or daughter is going to go away and die," Lewis said.
"I tell them, No, no, it's not like that.' Once I do talk to them, they tend to change their minds."
Posted by sickofsimi on June 29, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you are considering joining the armed forces for the college money, please do not do it. The money they promise is greatly higher than the money you will actually receive. In exchange for three years of your life, being exposed to the dangers of war, and potentially being denied your dismissal when your time is up due to the "stopgap", you will receive pocket change to "help" you go to college. This money currently is less than 1200 a month, which you can only receive while you are a full time student, and it is prorated for months you do not attend school for the entire month. That means if school starts during the last week of the month (it typically does), you only get 1/4 of your scheduled payment. You will never get the other 3/4 of the payment, because each check counts towards a finite number of checks you can actually receive. You will also not be paid during summer break.
If you really need the money for college, exhaust all other resources before you sign your life away to the armed forces. Financial aid, junior college for the first years, scholarships... there are many, many alternatives to the armed services to help you pay for college. The G.I. Bill is not what you are looking for.
Posted by NavalAviator on June 29, 2008 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well said sickofsimi. One should only join the military and take those risks, if they see themselves as dedicated to the job. Taking the military, or any job, for the money will not bring job satisfaction or your dedication to it.
I also do not believe that military recruiters have a place "wondering around" on a campus. I completely agree, however, that they should be afforded exhibit space at career day events on campus. If it is inappropriate for businesses to "wonder" the campuses looking for new hires, it should be inappropriate for all.
Posted by rdo4JC on June 29, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmmm, Cat, I "wonder" who "wonders around" anywhere, much less a school campus. Guess if one is a daydreamer then they can be "wondering around". Since the school is a public school, thus being funded by taxes, the military has every right to have a representative who can inform the students of the opportunities, and the risks, of joining the military. I see your point that those entering the military should only join if they have the dedication for it - it is an all volunteer military - but if there are incentives to be gained by joining, it would be great for people to know about them. When a student thinks about going to college, they try to find all of the scholarship and grant opportunities that they can get. What's the difference here?
Posted by christafrankmiller on June 29, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sick...why should you get money for when youre not in school!? if that what the moneys for...thats what it should be for...also, i believe its called "stop-loss"...
my husband is military and its not a job that you make millions doing but i dont know of anyone that does it for the money. its about honor and courage and doing something to make a difference and for your country. my husband does it to make the world safer for his children and future grandchildren...not the money. i dont think its anyones place to tell these young adults why they should or shouldnt join...thats their choice...i know LOTs of people that joined cause they had nothing better to do, to travel the world, or because they dont have good family relationships...its none of my business... i love them and support them regardless...i dont think it should be a problem for recuriters to go to schools...its not like the kids wont find them one way or another...at least hes not there encouarging them to join a gang or do something useless with their lives. my only advice to young people thinking about enlisting would be to have someone that knows about the military go with them so they can avoid heart ache, or being lied to. educate yorselves before you make the commitment...as with anything...not just the military...
god bless our troops and their families!!
Posted by socalcandyman on June 29, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I enlisted in the Army a couple years back because I decided college was not for me after completing high school. No, I wasn't a high-school dropout or did not have the grades or brains to attend college, nor was I criminal. I was 17 at the time, so I spoke with my parents and explained to them what I wanted to do. They supported me 100%. I grew up in a pretty rough neighborhood in a suburb next to Los Angeles. I still recall when I was sitting next to the military counselor; he advised me that I could have any job that I wanted because I scored very high on the A.S.V.A.B. What did I choose? The almighty airborne infantry. After I chose my M.O.S., he informed me that I would be entitled to the Montgomery G.I. Bill benefit and the "kicker". The kicker could be compared to a bonus. It is an extra incentive for accepting a high-demand military occupational skill. So on top of the G.I. Bill benefits, an individual gets some extra cash (kicker). When I left for the Army and saw what I saw and experienced what I experienced, it changed my life for the better. I met so many people from different parts of the country and world that I would have never met if I had never left home. After several years of service I decided to separate from the Army. Once out, I immediately enrolled at Ventura Community College. I signed the necessary forms to receive the G.I. Bill. The money I received was more than enough to cover my school expenses. I completed my education at V.C. and continued to pursue my education, finally achieving my goal by receiving a degree. To this day, I am still using the G.I. Bill to further advance my career by continuing to attend college. I personally believe that the G.I. Bill’s purpose is to facilitate veterans of the armed forces in pursuing their higher-education goals. I don’t think it is designed to support all of an individual's expenses while he or she is attending college. If that were the case, then the G.I. Bill should cover car, cell phone, cable expenses, etc. A majority of kids that don’t join the service and attend college have part-time or full time jobs in order to cover unrelated school expenses. Some work to cover both school and unrelated school expenses. I know of several individuals who blew their G.I. Bill benefits on non-school related items such as nice sports cars, stereo systems, etc. I also know of individuals who used their G.I. Bill benefits wisely. One such individual that I met while in the service, is currently enrolled at the UCLA School of Medicine.
Posted by socalcandyman on June 29, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You make the best of the situation you are in. Some people are born with a silver spoon in hand and others are not. Those that are not born with a silver spoon in hand, have to work harder to get ahead, but in the end, they are much more mature, responsible, and wiser individuals. In today's day and age, individuals have vast amounts of information and resources to make informed decisions about the military. A good thing about this country is that your enrollment in the military is voluntary.
Well that’s enough from me, I have to get ready to barbecue. God Bless all of our troops.
Posted by lizlemon on June 29, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Whatever.. What kind of "American's" should liberals start acting like? "American's" who don't understand basic rules of grammar? If "your" going to criticize liberals for babbling nonsense, at least put together a sentence that doesn't babble and isn't nonsensical.
Posted by sickofsimi on June 29, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm glad this article and the comments have inspired some conversation over the pros and cons of the G.I. Bill and enrolling in the armed services.
A few extra points:
The G.I. Bill will not cover your expenses if you wish to attend a four-year university and live on campus. For the millions of students not fortunate enough to live within driving distance of a four-year university, you will most certainly need to secure almost full-time employment in addition studies to cover your expenses. This is in addition to your G.I. Bill support. Sure, many people must work very long hours to put themselves through school already, but not after having been misled about the amount of money they would receive after enlisting in the armed forces. This is why I mentioned that the support checks do not cover your expenses throughout summer. Living on campus at a four-year university is a year-long expense, with no breaks for summer.
If public institutions should allow the military access simply because tax dollars pay for these institutions (never mind the inherent conflict of interest here) then why not post recruiters at libraries, hospitals, parks, federal buildings, museums, etc. Heck - my taxes pay for the roads - why not have to listen to a recruiter every time you use the freeway?
It is a good thing that enrollment in the military is voluntary. That's one of the most wonderful things about this country. You can choose to give, or you can choose to not give. Or you can give in other non-violent ways. To each their own. My point is that you should be well informed before making decisions that can impact your life, or even cause you to lose it simply because you need money for school. There are many other options available.
One last word - this is not an issue that pits "liberals" against "the rest of us". Nowhere in this article or in the comments were politics mentioned. Please refrain from pulling the "bleeding-heart liberal" card unless you really have a point to make.
Posted by sickofsimi on June 29, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Christa,
Thank you for your openness and compassion in your comment. I certainly would never want to denigrate the sacrifice and commitment of anyone who chooses to serve our country through the armed services. I appreciate the work your husband does, and commend you for supporting him.
My wife was also in the army, and then later struggled to make it through college on the G.I. Bill. She grew up poor and felt there were no other options available to her when she finished high school. The Army was an easy choice because they promised money and experience. It just turned out that the money was much less than promised, and the experience didn't apply to life the private sector. As a public school teacher, I continue to struggle to pay her debts that I inherited when we married. Teaching is another job you don't take for the money, so I understand and I support you and your family's decision to put principle before earning potential.
I'm sorry I referred to the stop-loss policy incorrectly; the point I wished to make was that the original commitment one makes to the armed services can be extended without any renegotiation or consideration to one's original intentions.
Thank you.
Posted by Rakkasan on June 29, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Since your intial commitment is always for 8 years there is no renogiating needed. You actualy sign numerous documents that state your sigining up for that length of time. Some of these comments in here are over the top! Some of your people seem to think only a poor idiot would want to defend his country. These young men and women are not forced to speak to a recruiter in any way, there are free to or not, like any other person in our country. Sickofsimi your comments really seem condescending to the military and the people who would consider joining it. Your latter comments of respect for it and them rings hollow in this old Grunts ears. There is no other civillian employer that will give you the type of benefits that the military can and does. Never mind the character development that takes place. Doing a job that few other people seem willing or capable of tackling comes with it it's own special pride. socalcandyman AATW! Bro.
Posted by mrsthompson21 on June 29, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey all...Sgt. Lewis...is my brother. I am so proud of him. He has achieved so much in his life an so much through the Army. There is so much to gain from joining the Army. A lot of it is discipline. Kids these days, don't have that. My brother on the other hand, never had a problem with discipline. By joining the military, enlistees will gain discipline, respect, honor, and other great things to come about. My husband served the Army for 5 years. He said one of the best feelings he has ever had was when people stopped him in the airport to shake his hand and say thank you. Where would we be without the United States Military? My family is so proud of our Sgt. He has always been my hero and will always be my hero. I love ya brother!- Love your sister- Blair Lewis-Thompson
Posted by christafrankmiller on June 29, 2008 at 1:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
sick...yes they definitely promise things that they dont follow through with...thats why i suggest taking someone with them that knows military when people want to enlist...all of the promises need to be in their contract in ink...and it talks plainly about stop loss...all of this stuff is pretty much common knowledge...does it make it right? nope..but thats the government for you. we have been ripped off and screwed over by the military more than youd believe in my husbands 9 years...but he goes back day after day and gives 1000% to his job and this country....and comes home to people protesting and disrespecting everything he fights for! to me...the politics is really beside the point..the point is we have brave men and women over there and all over the world fighting for us and they deserve more than we are giving them...we are all so busy fighting each other over here!! i think its silly to try to shield the youth from enlisting...theyll do it anyway...and its not like hes forcing them to enlist...all they have to say is no or stop calling me please...i think that those of us that know about military should educate them or tell them how to educate themselves...my husband said he couldnt ever do recruiting cause he couldnt lie to the kids...i have suggested to several people to join the military...some people have lots of luck in their military careers, others do not...military is def not for everyone, although i personally think we should go to drafting...it wouldnt hurt everyone to serve 18 mos- 2 years right out of high school...as a matter of fact with most of the youth ive seen these days...it would do a lot of good!! anyway...thats enough out of me...the military has been my life for many years....the troops and their families will always be my heart!!
Posted by NavalAviator on June 29, 2008 at 2:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
rdo4JC - Read the opening paragraph of the article, to wit, "Wandering the campus at Hueneme High School before graduation . . . ." Thus my use of the phrase, "Wondering around."
As for your statement, "Since the school is a public school, thus being funded by taxes, the military has every right to have a representative who can inform the students of the opportunities, and the risks, of joining the military." How does a school being tax supported give rise to a military presence? The military is not a "taxpayer." It is a tax consumer. If your analogy is correct, then every business and citizen who pays taxes should be able to "wonder around on a school campus" talking to the students.
Colleges are not coming on campus to pitch their scholarship programs. If students want to learn about military programs, the military has recruiting offices and job fairs it can attend that the students can go to of their own will.
The scholarship and educational environment should be insulated from all recruiters, military or business, except those at defined (and contained) career fair events in the gym or on the athletic field or where ever the Administration sets up the event. At job fair, exhibitors are confined to their booths, and cannot "wonder" the event pitching their employment.
Posted by robert_s_hunter on June 29, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just for your edification CatInAHat, the military DOES fund the school. The DoD pays local governments and school districts in which they are a member of the community. Do a little digging and you'll learn that NBVC is providing funds to more than a few local school districts.
For years, I've always got a kick out of people with their uninformed views on the military...
Posted by NavalAviator on June 29, 2008 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Hunter, funding, no funding, a campus is not an the proper setting for any recruiting. If it is the correct setting why not let the sheriff, police, highway patrol, TSA, Air Marshalls, Homeland Security, Border Patrol, FBI, CIA, National Security . . . all organizations that keep us save, walk around on them and recruit?
As for knowledge of the military, I will match my number of combat tours, combat missions, combat day and night carrier landings in a useless war, against yours anytime. Just because someone opposes something connected with the military, does not make them anti-military.
Posted by mikeb6804 on June 29, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
socalcandyman---thank you for your comments and your service. They show sick of simi for what he is, one of those with the silver spoon or one who thinks he should have one. I'll bet he never heard of having to work one's way through college.
Posted by robert_s_hunter on June 29, 2008 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CatInAHat: "Mr. Hunter, funding, no funding, a campus is not an the proper setting for any recruiting. If it is the correct setting why not let the sheriff, police, highway patrol, TSA, Air Marshalls, Homeland Security, Border Patrol, FBI, CIA, National Security . . . all organizations that keep us save, walk around on them and recruit?
As for knowledge of the military, I will match my number of combat tours, combat missions, combat day and night carrier landings in a useless war, against yours anytime. Just because someone opposes something connected with the military, does not make them anti-military."
With your knowledge, I would expect you to know it is the courts which have held that it is permissible for the government to link mandates to funding. It is a very simple matter. If one does not wish to permit recruiters, simply refuse the money.
You will also note that I made no reference to anyone being "anti-military", just that some are lacking in knowledge or woefully misinformed.
As to your resume, you can put away your "e-appendage". It is meaningless in this issue and, as with most things on the web, worth little more than the electrons it is carried on. I'm sure we've all read far more grandiose references from guys in Nigeria.
Hint: I would expect better linguistic skills from a college educated pilot...
Posted by NavalAviator on June 29, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In deed the courts have said this activity is legal. The courts do not say something is right or wrong, they say something is legal or illegal. You see different courts changing their opinions all the time; you see superior courts overruling inferior courts often.
Simply because something is legal, does not make it right. For example, if someone is found not guilty by the courts, it does not mean they did not do it. It just means that they could not be convicted. The courts are not the great arbitrator of what is right or wrong, they merely say what is (currently) legal and illegal.
Posted by allblacks on June 29, 2008 at 6:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"As for knowledge of the military, I will match my number of combat tours, combat missions, combat day and night carrier landings in a useless war, against yours anytime. Just because someone opposes something connected with the military, does not make them anti-military."
I would be that nearly every one of the plane captains that took care of you and made all those landings possible were recruited right out of high school.
Posted by robert_s_hunter on June 29, 2008 at 7:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CatInAHat: "In deed the courts have said this activity is legal. The courts do not say something is right or wrong, they say something is legal or illegal. You see different courts changing their opinions all the time; you see superior courts overruling inferior courts often.
Simply because something is legal, does not make it right. For example, if someone is found not guilty by the courts, it does not mean they did not do it. It just means that they could not be convicted. The courts are not the great arbitrator of what is right or wrong, they merely say what is (currently) legal and illegal."
True. But FWIW we live in a nation of laws, and the law is the final arbiter of such things. What is right and wrong is a subject that is constantly in flux even within the heart and mind of an individual, not to mention from person to person. The law is no guarantee of stability, but at least everyone is on the same page as to what it is.
One has three choices in these circumstances. Take the money and abide by the mandate. Say "No thanks, we'll pass...", and not need worry about said mandate. Or, work to have the law amended to end the mandate.
All the crying and complaining that goes on about the subject is the equivalent of "whizzing into the wind". It also achieves just as much...
Posted by NavalAviator on June 29, 2008 at 7:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Yep, but back then, they were also not recruited on campus. They walked into a recruiting office and signed on the dotted line.
Simply because something is being done, and being done because the courts say it is legal, does not make it right. If the courts saying something were legal made it right, how do we explain the "wrongness" of Jim Crow laws and Seperate But Equal schooling that existed in every state South of the Mason-Dixon line for a couple hundred years?
Put a recruiting office on every corner of every block in America, fine. But recruiting in the campus environment is no more appropriate than the military recruiters walking the hallways and floors of County hospital to recruit MDs and Nurses or visiting other County Building to recruit county workers to military jobs.
Posted by robert_s_hunter on June 29, 2008 at 8:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
CatInAHat: "Yep, but back then, they were also not recruited on campus. They walked into a recruiting office and signed on the dotted line."
I'm unsure what your definition of "back then" is, but I have to inform you that military recruiters being in schools in not a new phenomenon. Though the press taking notice, and turning it into a news story, is.
CatInAHat: "Simply because something is being done, and being done because the courts say it is legal, does not make it right. If the courts saying something were legal made it right, how do we explain the "wrongness" of Jim Crow laws and Seperate But Equal schooling that existed in every state South of the Mason-Dixon line for a couple hundred years?"
As far as I can tell, nobody has contended that there is a direct correlation between what is right and what is legal. However, it IS the law which applies. As I've said, there are three choices in this situation, take your pick.
You are also misinformed as to the "seperate but equal" theory of education being an issue of "every state south of the Mason-Dixon Line". It was a policy that the entire nation has to account for, as it stretched across this country. Placing blame for such a policy on those in the South is little more than others "passing the buck".
Posted by sickofsimi on June 29, 2008 at 10:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mike B -
What am I made of?
I've worked my way through college, grad school (twice) and put my wife through college and grad school. That counts as paying for five educations, doesn't it? Sure, I had some help the first time around - lucky on that one, but all of us get help some way or another.
My basic point was and still is that one should only rely on the promises of the armed services as a means for paying for college as a last resort. If someone really wants to join, by all means! Sign up! That's the beauty of freedom. Another beauty of freedom is the ability to speak up and point out that there are many other options available if you are considering signing up for at least 8 years just to pay for college.
Posted by noname on June 29, 2008 at 10:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
From all the people that I've met, who joined the armed forces, all joined specifically to receive money in order to attend a university. No one (again, speaking of those people I know)joined due to "tradition" nor patriotic "duty". In addition, I can't help but point out that the large majority of those in the armed forces fall under the working class or poor economic category. How many of those who join come from upper middle class or wealthy families? How many senators', governors', house of representatives' children are in or have joined the armed forces? A couple, maybe. In no way am I saying that only the working class should join or that because the wealthy don't join the armed forces that therefore no one should. That's not what I'm saying. But I am asking, those who ever consider joining, to stop and think; analyze the facts.
I remember an army representative calling my home to speak with me my senior year in high school, and I remember feeling completely offended. When asked, this rep., was quick to say that he was calling those with Latino surnames. I quickly told him that like my older siblings and extended family, I was admitted to UC Santa Barbara, and that I was going to serve my country with my intelligence. I went on to say (may I add that I spoke in a very polite tone; at no time was I disrespectful) that I would never consider becoming property of the government to be told what to think, or told not ask questions. However, I respect all who have decided to join the armed forces. I do not know everyone's situation; therefore, I do not know their reasons for joining. I am simply grateful that I never had to consider joining.
Posted by 805RN on June 29, 2008 at 10:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I did a 4 year stint in the military in the earlyl 90's as a medic. I have always been extremely grateful for my GI Bill. Without it I do not think I would have been able to put myself through Nursing School upon my departure from the Army. In my opinion, I felt the GI Bill to be wonderful source of assistance. I never once felt I was lied to during the process. That was my experience and as I mentioned earlier I will always be grateful for the assistance I received from the GI bill
Posted by mikeb6804 on June 30, 2008 at 12:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
sick of simi---Good for you! You are still off base for knocking the GI bill as it exists as a means for a vet to go through school. It is one of many options.
Posted by NavalAviator on June 30, 2008 at 12:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The GI Bill was great for the Vietnam vet also until ole Ronnie Reagan cut it off early for us (What a guy!). I still had about $15,000.00 to use up as I recall, when we got the 60-day notice that it was history. But it paid for my airline transport pilot ticket, so I did OK.
As many vets learned that sued the government for their lost benefits, the GI Bill is a priviledge of service, that could be granted or taken back, it was never guaranteed.
Just wait unit about 10 years after this ruckus is over, and the government pulls the cork on the remaining "priviledge" owed to our present day warriors. It is coming ladies, so use it up ASAP.
Posted by mrsthompson21 on June 30, 2008 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)
For the people that are talking about whether it should be legal to allow recruiters on school campuses. How the courts rule on that....a judges ruling differs from state to state, from county to county, and from judge to judge. That's when it becomes the liberal v. the conservative. But when you read this article, that has absolutly nothing to do with it. I believe that everyone should thank those men and women who serve our country whether you believe in the war or not. They had no choice as to whether to go to war or not and again, that has nothing to do with this article. It was about a reporter following a recruiter around for two weeks. What he does for a living. It's a career. Joining the military is a personal choice, so nobody should bash another for choosing that as their career. We should respect them, because after all, we are the ones here in the states, taking showers everyday, eating good food, sleeping in beds, in an air conditioned room, while they over there are fighting for us to do so. We should show them respect and not argue about whether recruiting should be allowed in schools and about education money that the military gives you. Yes, the military helps out with educational expenses, once you are enrolled in school. No, it may not cover all of your education, but what they do cover, will help. Not only is the military good for educational purposes, it has great benefits for not only the soldier, but the family as well. Yeah, there is a degree of danger when being in the military, and yes it is higher than other jobs, but there is a danger in everyday life. I live in Texas. This is a proud state, that is very proud of our countrys' soldiers. Some people just don't understand. I think that people should get their facts straight before saying something that may not be true. I am very proud of my brother Sgt. Lee Lewis (the one in the article). And from what I've read about what everyone is saying, you misunderstood the article. My grandfather, my father, my brother, my brother-in-law, and my husband have all served our country and I couldn't be any more proud of them. Along with all they other American Soldiers. Lee, you know that I'm proud of you, and always keep your chin up. Keep up your hard work and never give up. You have a promising future. I love you big brother.
Posted by Rakkasan on June 30, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
nonename Strange...in my six years in the Infantry I was never "told what to think" or "not to ask questions" Another pseudo-intellectual who is too uninformed to know what the military is really like. Thank God he will be "serving his country" with his intelligence and not his guts. A whole bunch of America hating "nutjobs" here. LOL
I do agree that if you are considering joining just for the college fund don't. Not because your benefits won't be honored,(they will) because when you join the military you are VOLUNTEERING TO GO WAR. Wether it is piece time or time of war as now. I can't stand all these cybabies deserters that say "I don't want to kill anybody I only signed up for the college money". Well doom on you dummies, what the heck did you think that rifle you were giving in basic training was for?
Posted by Rakkasan on June 30, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)
nonename Strange...in my six years in the Infantry I was never "told what to think" or "not to ask questions" Another pseudo-intellectual who is too uninformed to know what the military is really like. Thank God he will be "serving his country" with his intelligence and not his guts. A whole bunch of America hating "nutjobs" here. LOL
I do agree that if you are considering joining just for the college fund don't. Not because your benefits won't be honored,(they will) because when you join the military you are VOLUNTEERING TO GO WAR. Wether it is piece time or time of war as now. I can't stand all these cybabies deserters that say "I don't want to kill anybody I only signed up for the college money". Well doom on you dummies, what the heck did you think that rifle you were giving in basic training was for?
Posted by Rakkasan on June 30, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
OOPs Peace.
Posted by NavalAviator on June 30, 2008 at 7:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Friends,
I have 4 extra tickets for the Robbie Knievel event at the Fairgrounds next weekend if anybody wants them.
He's going to try to jump 5000 Obama supporters with a bulldozer.
Posted by sickofsimi on June 30, 2008 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Catinahat,
Do you have any tickets out of this right-wing, nutjob, braindead conservative hell-hole called Ventura County?
I could use a couple.
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