Posted by lakerboy805 on July 25, 2008 at 1:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a tough gig to be picking this jury...

Posted by NavalAviator on July 25, 2008 at 1:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The law, so far, has spoken. I do not like the law, but it is our law; and we are a nation of laws, not men.

Posted by CommandoAngel on July 25, 2008 at 5:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wee Willie spends all of his time attacking the law, the judge, the D.A., everyone except the killer. Where is the sympathy for the victim?

Do these arguments mean that every time a defendant, adult or otherwise, "acts like a juvenile" when they commit a crime, they should be tried in juvenile court? There they would scream they are cheated because they are not entitled to a jury.

One more thing: It is not just because he is a juvenile that the jury does not get to decide on his sentence. That happens in adult cases also. Another attempt to mislead the public by Willie Quest.

Posted by DoctorDude on July 25, 2008 at 6:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Draconian.

Posted by chiques on July 25, 2008 at 6:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Life's consequences. At this age a humans should know basic social surviving knowledge (if they aren't retarded or autistic) such as "not playing on the freeway" or "picking fights with the wrong people". This same knowledge is learned by approximately 99% of kids, and some just don't have that sense. In this case, Brendan was "playing on the freeway" and just ruined his life.

Posted by mac_tire_224 on July 25, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm with you MMSHOOT, this was hardly a minor crime and life in prison in not death.

Posted by rebel123 on July 25, 2008 at 7:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sad day for society. Draconian means severe and merciless. I agree. We should be more evolved than this. By the same logic that allows 14 year olds to be tried as adults, why don't we also let them vote, drive cars, marry without parental consent, be subject to the same labor laws as adults....and the list goes on. A 14 year old is not an adult.

Posted by dennis on July 25, 2008 at 7:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a tragic case. Clearly the crime was heavily influenced by the immaturity of both Brandon and Larry in dealing with their sexuality. To try the boy as an adult seems ridiculous. No, judge, it is not unconstitional; it is just unconscionable.

Posted by dennis on July 25, 2008 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

a second problem with the "try them as an adult", approach is by the time the trial goes to jury, the child is often a man. So instead of seeing a frightened junior high student, the jury may see a full grown man sitting in front of them. If the child grows into a large black body, he is as good as in prison for life.

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe he should be tried as an adult. His sentencing will not fit that of an adult crime though. Most would be life in prison or death. I find it hard to believe that a jury would offer either of those options or if a plea bargin will be reached as well. I am interested to see how this plays out. I feel for both families but justice and precidence needs to be served here so these types of crimes stop being committed by our children.

I do have to say that I hope I don't get picked for this trial, what a heartbreaker it would be.

Posted by MidTwn on July 25, 2008 at 8:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When Proposition 21 was passed by voters some people thought that this law would ONLY apply to young gang members. NEWS FLASH!: This law applies to ALL 14+ year old youth. You reap what you sow!

Posted by dmickey on July 25, 2008 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Brandon picked up that gun KNOWING he was going to take another life.

Posted by 805grl on July 25, 2008 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

dennis -A frightened jr high kid?? Not when the "junior high kid" had that gun in his hand, and very carefully pointed the gun at the head of the other "frightened jr high kid" shooting him, more then once in the head. Do you really hear yourself? Justice should be served for the victim! To bad for the killer his life will be spent behind bars, but I have no sympathy for him. And his mother should have stepped up along time ago, maybe if the killler wasnt being raised by other people she could have helped?? who knows? too late for that. I voted for prop 21 at 18 years old, and at 14 I fully understood the concept of murder and what that would do to my life!! Larry deserves justice.

Posted by dennis on July 25, 2008 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

805..You seem to be confusing justice with vengeance.If the 14 year old brain was fully wired to perceive consequences, a lot of young people would live longer.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 8:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This murder was obscene, but where were the parents, guardians and teachers when King was walking around in school cross-dressing and/or in makeup?! He should never have been allowed to be openly gay at 15. He should never have been allowed to wear makeup at school. That said McInerney's life is over.

Posted by bubbles on July 25, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms. California, that's the whole point. Neither the jury, nor the Judge, have any say whatsoever in the sentence Brandon will get if he is convicted. In fact, the jury will have no information about the possible sentence. The law automatically dictates a sentence of 51 years to life, and no male has been paroled from a life sentence in the State of California in decades! The reality is, Brandon will never get out of prison if he is convicted in adult court...never.

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

bubbles... and larry will never come back from the dead. Why should one be spared and the other not? Trust me, his sentence will not be that of an adult crime. No one is going to give him a death sentence. Obviously you have never been on a jury because that information is announce to the jury during the sentencing phase of a murder trial. The whole point is for the jury to sit down and offer their recommendation of sentencing to the judge. If this kid's attorney is any good, he will get a "kid friendly" sentence. Which in my opinion is lucky for him. He knew exactly what he was going to do that day. He set off to school to KILL Larry King. Plain and simple!

Posted by mauid2005 on July 25, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

With all of the media attention this case is getting, how will there be a fair trial? I don't just mean here in Ventura County, but the nation. Honestly, I don't believe there would be as much press had Larry not been gay. When I first heard about the shooting, I was adamant that Brandon should be tried as an adult. But as the stories unfold and new facts (if you can call them facts) come out, I am torn.

I can't speak for either boy but I do know that at age 14 (and even at 13, 3 weeks earlier!) I knew that taking a gun to the back of someone's head and pulling the trigger would 99% lead to death. I also know that I would be undoubtedly messed up for the rest of my life.

From the numerous stories, it appears Larry given the freedoms to wear what he wanted, with no authority trying to intervene. I'm sorry but I don't know any 8th grader females that would be parading around school in stilettos and I honestly feel the school administration failed both students. I personally feel that the school administration, Casa Pacifica, and the parents of both boys are to be held accountable. There were plenty of signs of trouble - someone should have stepped in.

I am, in no way at all, saying what Brandon did is inexcusable but it can almost, sadly, be understandable. I'm grateful for the justice system, even when it fails us. Hopefully that isn't the case this time.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is one thing to be a gay adult today. It is quite another to be a boy cavorting around a high school in eyeliner and lipstick. This would never have happened if someone had stepped up and said "Lawrence, stop wearing lipstick" and etc. and/or helped him or stopped him from pursuing Brandon who clearly at 14 did not have the maturity to handle his unwanted advances.

Posted by bubbles on July 25, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Brandon is not facing the death penalty. Minors in the United States cannot be given the death penalty! This isn't China. There will be no sentencing phase in this trial.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 8:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think that this tragedy will only be compounded if there is No chance for Brandon! Vengece is NOT justice. As I see it two lives are lost! It is very sad.

Posted by Common_Sense on July 25, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Did anyone read the Newsweek article on this. The most interresting thing about it, in my opinion, was a small line that discussed what was being taught in class at the time. They were learning about World War II and it said something to the effect of Brandon focusing on Hitler. They also mention he was hanging out with shady group from the beach. This hinted to me about some type of racial stuff with him (the Hitler comment especially). Perhaps there is a little more to this story and may further explain the hate crime charge???

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 8:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunny: The deck was and is stacked dramatically against BM. I can't imagine being his father.

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When I was in HS alot of the guys and girls wore eyeliner and lipstick.. I grew up in the "punker" era and no one was killed by anyone else at my school. Brandon had issues and what he did was unacceptable, disrespectful and terrible. People need to quit making excuses for what he did. It was hate pure and simple. He knew what he was doing. At 14 or 35 you know that a gun will kill someone! Com'on this is nothing new to our world. hate and guns are in the news daily. Just because someone looks or acts different than you do doesn't mean they deserve to die. If Larry made comments to Brandon that made him feel uncomfortable why would it be any different of how boys act with girls in school. Can you remember when you were in school and a boy/girl in your class had a crush on you? The teasing and comments that were made? Sexual tension at the peek! Kids in Jr HS have hormones that are raging! They don't know how to express themselves sexually. Brandon took these comments too far and killed this child for no reason.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMD_ You are right, this kids life has been in turmoil since before he was born, he has never had a chance!

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 9:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

herefor35years.. you have to ask for help to get help.

Posted by jinjin on July 25, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hate to bring up the question because it is asked so frequently - where were the parents for both of the children? Where did the gun come from? Where is their responsiblity in all of this? I don't believe at 14 this child understood how this would impact his life or the lives of others - his thoughts are not that mature. School administrators aren't responsible for this - how does a parent let a boy go out with lipstick and stilettos even if he is gay - how about respect for others? And Brandon's hatred of the boy - where did he learn this? I see this mostly as a failure of parenting. At 14 children do not have the maturity to act as adults and understand the consequences of their actions.

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on July 25, 2008 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Read the Newsweek article again. Regarding what Brandon is accused of, there doesn't appear on the surface to be much of an argument. As to the adult or adults who may have allowed the situation to reach the point where Brandon felt, however wrongly, that he had to kill Larry, we have yet another issue. Both boys needed help. Was inappropriate and agenda driven help offered to one boy while totalling ignoring the needs of the other one? Were those needs even known to staff? I don't know the answers to those questions. The answers may well play a role in mitigation at the penalty phase of the trial, if it goes that far.

Posted by oxnard40 on July 25, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Have any of you read the cover story of Newsweek this week?

Posted by floydspinky71 on July 25, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Rebel123: The issue here is not that we should let them vote, drive cars, marry without parental consent, etc. We're not asking them to keep up with the economy or know about national security, etc. At age 14, they should know that murder is a crime. It's a lot simpler than that.

Posted by PHguy on July 25, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

People keep saying larry should not have been allowed to wear lipstick or be openly gay at school. What would have happened if someone would have told him not to and he killed himself? You all would be instead saying that he should have been allowed to do what he wanted and express himself. The facts are he did what he did, and was murded by another human being. We have laws and a legal process to follow in this country, and thats where I believe it should be handled. Instead of complaining about the laws, why dont you try to make a change.

Posted by aroma on July 25, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To all of you who are against him being tried as an adult...what do you think his punishment should be? Get a couple of years in juvy with some counseling and then released to back into society? Give me a break!!! He knew exactly what he was doing, he planned to takes someone's life, this was and still is pre-meditated murder! I bet if he was some gang member a lot of you would have no problem with him being tried as an adult. I agree that the "adults" in his life should have stepped up and raised their child better, they should have taught him to have some tolerance. And to those of you who said Larry should not have been allowed to be openly gay. Wow you ignorance is incredible, how could you say that? Why should he have not been able to be himself? Because the other teens didn't like it? You mean to tell me Larry should have dresses and acted like the other teens wanted him to? Put them before himself? Get real! We all have the right to be who we want to be. I admire Larry's courage to have been able to say he was gay at such a young age especially in a society where there are many grown men and women afraid to be themselves. Larry King is nothing less then admirable.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is one thing to be an emo in makeup, but you know that straight kids in high school DO NOT wear makeup and women's clothes....King should not have been allowed to dress in female clothes. I would bet the district prohibited cutoffs and otherwise had some dress restrictions but never (being the Left Coast) said a word to Lawrence.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This murderer, and that is exactly what he is, is now facing charges of 1) murder; 2) hate crime. Some comments I've read blame Larry. Let's take the gay and age aspect out of the equation. "person shoots and kills another because he hated him and what he did". Now the theme changes, dosen't it? 14 yr olds smoke, drink, have sex, marry, and also kill. How dare you defend actions such as those!!

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You're right, VCfromMD, that might have helped the problem. But its also obvious that you have no idea what it's like its like to be in Oxnard's Junior High's. A hateful place, where boys exhibit machismo ruthlessly against those who are different and weaker. Those young boys entering puberty and realizing that they are not like everyone else need to conform in order to be safe?

I was coming to terms with my own sexuality at Fremont. I knew I was different, and I sure as hell didn't want to be different, but there was nothing I could do about it. And it wasn't just internal, everyone else saw it too. I was called fagg0t almost daily, and people picked fights with me all the time. OF course, I was suspended with the other kids when caught defending myself.

I hated my life, and I especially hated that school so I left at the end of the 7th grade to a private Christian school where the jackasses are closely monitored and there is a Christian sense of tolerance and community.

Seriously, wake up! That poor kid who was shot, was 5'1, without a family to lean on, and dressed strangely because that's his identity also had to defend himself against the constant hurl of insults and fists. Brandon had nearly a foot on him, and was known by his classmates for his repeated attacks on Larry. What is Larry supposed to do? Tattle on Brandon to an administration that is more likely to cause problems than resolve them? His only defense in putting his strangeness in their faces, and it not only kept the jerks away, it also cost him his life.

So you can go cavorting with your ideas on what's acceptable in a junior high. You know what sounds acceptable to me? How about Oxnard starts teaching tolerance and conflict resolution to her students as soon as puberty starts, like the 5th or 6th grade and make it an ongoing conversation with EVERY student until they graduate high school.

Maybe then someone in Oxnard can go through an entire 12 years of school without a murder or stabbing or bomb threat. Maybe if we taught inclusion instead of xenophobia then Oxnard can finally be a safe place to send your kids to school

RIP Larry, you will get the justice that you deserve.

Posted by lilmamma on July 25, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This case is tragic all the way around and we will never know the true hows, whys, and whats of this case. We do know that a young gay man is dead and a young troubled boy is on trial for murder. I wish the adults in their lives were on trial for murder because the administrators failed and their parents failed them miserably.Unfortunately he won't be the first 14 year old to spend his life in prison and he won't be the last. If you do the crime you have to do the time.

Posted by mauid2005 on July 25, 2008 at 9:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I've read the Newsweek article (http://www.newsweek.com/id/147790?fro...)and it does state (correct or not) that Larry was living at Casa Pacifica for a few months prior to his death and that Brandon was living with his father, who, like many parents, had to commute to work. There's your answer to "Where were the parents?"...

From what I've read, Casa Pacifica didn't try to counsel Larry, instead they pushed him towards whatever he wanted - For Christmas, the home gave Larry a $75 gift card for Target. He spent it on a pair of brown stiletto shoes. I'm sorry but that should not have been allowed.

In today's age, everyone is so freakin' concerned with being "pc" and afraid to step on toes. Larry is being turned into the poster child for the gay & lesbian community. Why? Brandon may have had a fascination for Hitler and could have killed Larry for the mere fact that Larry was bi-racial.

The facts are simple - we will never know what caused Brandon to shoot and kill Larry. We will only know what the press, defense attorneys and prosecutors want us to know and it will be twisted every which way to further causes.

Larry being gay may just be the tip of the surface to this unfortunate crime.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PH...if Lawrence would have killed himself if he had been told to stop wearing girl's clothes, I would not have blamed anyone but him...he needed counseling as much as Brandon.

Posted by PHguy on July 25, 2008 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These days everyone resorts to saying someone needs counseling for this and that. Why did larry need counseling? because he was brave enough to express who he was, or because he was being bullied daily? I think you need counseling.

Posted by oxnard40 on July 25, 2008 at 9:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

gen... Isn't that an interesting article. Newsweek is really showing where things could have been changed and fixed.

Posted by mauid2005 on July 25, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not saying that Larry should not have been allowed to express himself, however, just because he was gay doesn't allow him special rules. As a male, he had a dress code specific to males. That should have been enforced - if not at home, then definitely at school. I remember leaving my house dressed "correctly" but the minute I turned the corner, the skirt was rolled up and some makeup appeared on my face. If I was out of control or out of dress code, administration called my parents. That should have been done in this case.

Adolosence is a tough enough time for anyone - male or female - and for Larry to be coming to terms with a "different" sexuality makes it that much harder. I do agree that there should be some tolerance taught in schools - but not just for the gay community but for EVERYONE. 50 years ago, 30 years ago, 10 years ago and heck 5 years ago - things were done differently. Every day our society changes and not everyone handles change the same. We are a melting pot that continues to grow.

Posted by mauid2005 on July 25, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

oxnard40 - that article really did shed light on so much. The problems lie within us all - parents, family, community. It definitely makes one think.

Posted by aroma on July 25, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"From what I've read, Casa Pacifica didn't try to counsel Larry, instead they pushed him towards whatever he wanted - For Christmas, the home gave Larry a $75 gift card for Target. He spent it on a pair of brown stiletto shoes. I'm sorry but that should not have been allowed."

WHY? Why should this have not been allowed? Because he was a boy? Because boys aren't allowed to wear these kinds of shoes? Larry was who he was, he was Gay and was brave enough to admit it and go against what the rest society thought he should be. Casa Pacifica did not "push him towards whatever he wanted" They understood him and let him express himself, be who he wanted to be regardless of his physical gender.

Posted by PHguy on July 25, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

gen, I agree with your point that if there was a dress code against that kind of dress for males, he should have been required to abide by it. I also agree that tolerance needs to be taught and handled differently, like you said the way it was 5, 10, 30 even 50 years ago.

so do you still hike up the skirt and put on the makeup after you leave the house and get around the corner? lol

Posted by 805m0mma on July 25, 2008 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a tragic story no matter how you look at it. Both kids needed help and it seems as if they were both reaching out for it. In no way am I putting blame on Larry King, but I also think if Casa Pacifica or E.O Green put their foot down and didn't allow him to dress in woman's clothing then it may not have gone this far...at my daughters school in Camarillo they can't even wear flip flops to school without getting a call asking to bring decent shoes to wear...dress code is outlined in the handbook.

It sounds like the school was aware of tension between Brandon and Larry and really did act on it...I'm sure they figured it was just another incident that would blow over. Hate crime? I'm not too sure of. I think Brandon was just tired of being teased and embarrassed by Larry...and it seems from the articles that Larry just teased him to get a rise of of him and really didn't mean anything by it???

Uniforms in the Oxnard School District should be mandatory.

Posted by PHguy on July 25, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

805m0mma, E.O. Green is in the hueneme school district

Posted by originalcali on July 25, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Once again, why are irresponsible people allowed to own guns? Seriously, we need to have tougher gun control laws. Or better yet, ban them alltogether...

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMD, your comments seem as if you would like to see everyone dress a certain way, to your expectations; act a certain way, to your expectations. That is the beauty of this nation. To exercise the rights you have. What's more important, that I think you're lacking, is tolerance, acceptance, understanding. Close minded, narrow minded thoughts only create instances such as these:murder, hate. Try to experience it. I think you would be a much better person!!

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 9:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Alex, teach other kids to tolerate someone wearing girl's clothes?! Sorry. Not going to happen (and I would argue against it as there are norms (even in California) ). I was 5'2" and 85 pounds as a high school freshman and got beat up regularly by bullies. I wanted to shoot the bullies. It was bad enough to be small in high school, but I would have been stupid to wear girl's clothes and lip gloss (had I been gay which I am not). He was a victim, but WOW, he made his own worst enemy, especially hitting on a straight kid that did not appreciate it.

Posted by PHguy on July 25, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMD, you said you wanted to shoot the bullies... you need to understand that the community in which EO Green is in is an area with a very high violence rate. It is almost a daily occurence. and i dont mean that we just hear that someone got shot in nearby los angeles, but that someone got shot in oxnard. its sort of a normal thing, so with that in mind if a kid(or adult) decides he wants to shoot someone and is not in the right frame of mind, its more likely that it will happen in our area.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMD, WHY NOT?? Why not have tolerance, understanding? Think about what you have written!!!

Posted by mauid2005 on July 25, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

aroma - I don't mean that just because Larry is male he shouldn't be allowed to wear heels. I don't think Larry knew what he wanted, maybe he was finding himself - whomever that is, we'll never know.

Posted by vickicassidy2 on July 25, 2008 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have often wondered if this young boy was also gay and was full of self hatred about himself. You have to wonder what is home life was like and why this triggered such rage.

Posted by oxnard40 on July 25, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

96 .7% of you would make an inappropriate comment if you saw an 8th grade boy dressed in high heels and make-up.

Get off your high horse.

The shooting was wrong and Brandon should get tried as an adult, but don’t come in here with your gay tolerance non-sense when most of you would gawk at Larry for being different.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 10:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

805 mOmma, your comments should be well taken, but let's see if they're correct. We, in our society, have individuals that challenge our system requiring them to say God in our pledge of allegence in our schools, in the Boy Scouts, etc. Now your are saying to have specific dress codes? Not to dress in women's clothing? Let's look at our entertainment, bands, etc. This is our society!! Flip Flops create a hazard for the safety of your feet and toes. It's not a "dress code" thing as you percieve it. What about Larry's actions? Shall we prohibit self expression for fear of annoying another? Shall we tell our children how to act, what to say also? Proper rearing is essential. That includes understanding, tolerance, acceptance. I watched Schindler's List recently, just as a reminder of how horrific an individual can be!!

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oxnard40: BUT WOULD WE KILL???

Posted by rebel123 on July 25, 2008 at 10:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is not a question of excusing Brandon's crime, or whether Larry should or should not have been allowed to dress the way he did, or whether or not Brandon knew shooting someone was wrong. It is about a society that is ready to label a 14 year old as an adult for purposes of serving "justice". There is scientific proof that the brain of a 14 year old has not yet developed to the point where they can fully comprehend the long term consequences of their actions. That does not mean that Brandon didn't know he was going to shoot and kill Larry. That means his brain is not developed to the point where he can rationally think out the whole picture and process all the information AS AN ADULT would. Kids lack impulse control. That does not excuse his crime but it should certainly give pause to calling him an adult and serving so called justice accordingly. Vengeance and justice are not the same thing. I would also like to state that both these young boys lacked proper counseling and this whole tragedy should and could have been avoided. All adults connected with this bear responsibility for Larry's life lost and Brandon's life destroyed.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

PH: I need counseling because I suggest a boy should not wear stilettos? COME ON! So for you it's all right for a man to walk down the street in a dress? Let's teach them young that it is ok to be gay and wear skirts and lip gloss! Try that anywhere but WeHo and NYC or South Beach. There are norms and homosexuality is not normal. This boy should not have been injured, much less killed, but I do not feel that we should give quarter to gays (and before you flame me, no, I am not a religious nut. I am an atheist and I simply think that homosexuality is disgusting). That being said, Larry should never have been harmed. At 15, his sexuality should only have come up.

Posted by oxnard40 on July 25, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I would also like to state that both these young boys lacked proper counseling and this whole tragedy should and could have been avoided. All adults connected with this bear responsibility for Larry's life lost and Brandon's life destroyed."

Well said rebel123

Posted by sslocal on July 25, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 10:04 a.m.

VCfromMD, WHY NOT?? Why not have tolerance, understanding? Think about what you have written!!!

Tolerance and understanding are fine but when this difference is thrown in people face time and time again it is unacceptable. Larry should have been made to comform to the standards set by the school district. Just like the rest of the children.
It may well have save his life.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sslocal; "made to conform"??? Hitler thought the same thing, shame on you!!!

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on July 25, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I love it, ......do an adult crime do adult time. so when we hear of 5 year old's picking up a gun and shooting there brother/sister, they too should be tried as an adult. How about the 7 year old boy that wanted to take his baby sister to the beach, put her in the car and started driving...the country laughed about it on David Letterman. That little boy should rot in prison, right?

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

....his homosexuality should only have come up in the context on how to express his homosexuality appropriately for his age, ie, at 15, by NOT hitting on on other boys at school and by NOT wearing women's clothes. Some of you live in a bizarre world where this is acceptable.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 10:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How do you know that perhaps Brandon hadn't been sexually abused by a man when he was younger,and being constantly harassed by King he flashed back to that time causing him to stop it before it happens again?? You don't know so you shouldn't judge!! If that happend to him as a child would you still want him to spend the rest of his young, long life in prison with sodomits?

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on July 25, 2008 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The clothing worn by Larry was not even in accordance with the dress code for females at the school. He was afforded a free pass because of his espressed gayness. It may well be, given his reported RAD diagnosis, that he wasn't even gay but was simply using gayness as a vehicle with which to gain attention.

Also, to you who continually throw stones at the Kings, be aware that within the context of RAD, false accusations of abuse are a frequent symptom. False accusations are used to garner attention and, for kids who are wise to the "system," are pretty much a guaranteed way to be removed from a home. Larry would have rebelled at attempts to provide level, structured and unwaivering discipline along with love ... which is absolutely essential when dealing with a RAD kid. Social workers and even mental health "experts" are all too frequently snared in that trap with the result that adoptive, foster and biological parents alike are often unjustly labeled as abusers. I don't know the situation here, but feel it necessary that you understand the basics that even all too many social workers don't understand. To this writer, it seems apparent that Casa Pacifica folks didn't have a clue. Instead of driving him to school each day, they could have let him be schooled at their facility.

If you doubt what I say, check out symptoms here:
http://www.radkid.org/signs_and_sympt...

If Brandon was being harassed, did anybody on E.O. Green staff have knowledge? If so, didn't they have a legal duty to intervene. Hopefully, whoever ends up hearing the case won't disallow, and keep from the public, such information.

Posted by granmama on July 25, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This truly is a tragic case. Both boys are victims - bullying is not acceptable. Too many young lives have been lost from bullying either from suicide or murder. Please go to Bully Police and read the tragic stories. http://www.bullypolice.org/ Brandon is a first-offending youth and to my knowledge has never been in trouble with the law, so why shouldn't he be given the benefit of discipline, punishment, rehabilitation, counseling, and education within the juvenile justice system. I believe Proposition 21 should be revised to return the age to over 18 and above for adult sentencing. I just don't believe a child of 14 should be tried and sentenced as an adult. All the reports I have read emphasize the brain is not fully developed - this was referenced in Roper v Simmons on the ruling for the death penalty for those under age 18 and the mentally disabled. Life without Parole is a death sentence for juveniles. Please go read this very informative report, http://www.ytfg.org/documents/JEHT_Se...

Posted by hotwildflower on July 25, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know how to bring this up without being attacked, but if this situation was a 15 year old boy chasing a 14 year old girl to the degree that Larry was chasing Brandon, from what I am hearing...I think someone may have stepped in and told him to knock it off.

I also read this story on MSN over the weekend that went into much more detail about the vice principal who is a lesbian and really encouraged Larry to express himself and discouraged staff from telling him otherwise. From what I read in the story, I think alot of this comes down on her for using jr. high students to push her own personal agenda of forcing them to accept homosexuality when they are having a hard enough time dealing with their own changes...

As for this ruling, I am disappointed, I think Brandon, who obviously is in the wrong and needs to be punished, but I think he was failed on so many levels, just as Larry was. They are both victims here and will never have a chance to right the wrongs.

Posted by PHguy on July 25, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

myOpenyun, so now your saying that "the man" is too tough on "the white man"? oh my... im done.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMd: Think about what you have written, AGAIN!! It is called the real world, in a real society that allows freedom of expression. Is it illegal? Why don't you be the first to institute laws of unacceptable behavior? Of course, I would think that if Larry could change things, he would. If Brandon could change things, he would. But you seem to allow unacceptable occurances to be profound in your life. I may not agree with seeing a man in a dress or heels, but do I really care? Does it affect my home life? My pesonal life? the way I rear my children? NO! I am not going to change the world.

Posted by softballmom805 on July 25, 2008 at 11:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Do you remember when you were 14? I do and I didn't think the same way I do now as an adult. As we develop into adulthood we mature mentally, emotionally and pysically, the age difference between 14 and 18 can really make a difference. He should not be tried as an adult.

Posted by Stew_Pedasols on July 25, 2008 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sounds like this forum went from the "trial as an adult" talk to who is anti-gay

and there are lots of assumptions are being made and there is still the witch hunt for a scapegoat for the guardians saying that either allowed the children to bring in questionable clothing and the other, a gun. has anyone here ever defied their parents and ditched school, wore the gang related attire, taken drugs, brought things to school that they weren't suppose to? when you're a kid, you can find a way...has anyone thought of that? Larry's heels and Brandon's gun? the point is someone was shot and in an act of aggression. have him be your neighbor...

Posted by Adam_Monroe on July 25, 2008 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WOO HOO!! Justice is well on its way to being PROPERLY served...it wont bring back Larry, but at least there can be appropriate ramifications for the perpetrator!

Posted by sslocal on July 25, 2008 at 11:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ogdon272,
I hardly think this equates with Hitler.
The rest of the kids had to dress according to the rules established by the district. To allow him to "be different" was a violation of these rules and invited ridicule and other unacceptable behavior. The district must bear some fault in this.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMD, yeah this bizarre world is called the 805.

I've taken a look at E.O. Green's dress code which is available on the internet - They do have a uniform policy already, standard catholic school wear. Brandon is a gender bender, and statistically they always HAVE and always WILL exist. So in a country where education is mandatory for all of its citizens, be them straight, gay, or whatever, is it too much to ask for a safe school.

You don't seem to get it - people in California will NEVER do what YOU think is acceptable behavior and dress. People do what they need to do to be comfortable in their own skin. Perhaps Larry was a long journey to discover who he really is.

Oh, and by the way, you need counseling because you wanted to kill your tormentors.

Brandon needed a mentor, something that Casa Pacifica can only do so much about, and his parents already disowned him for - what was that you used - that's right- he's digusting.

See, this is why Brandon did what he did, because you think he was disgusting in the way he conducted himself. He pissed all over your gender roles and chose his own way. He was bullied and harassed all the time because he was true to himself and chose to be comfortable in his own skin.

You don't have to be a religious nut to be a bigot, and with each post you sound more and more like one. Its obvious that you are disgusted by what you cannot understand, and its also obvious that people who don't conform to that "bizarre" narrow-minded thinking of yours need to be told to change so they fit in?

Please tell us, when is it okay for LGBT to be themselves in public?

Posted by 805m0mma on July 25, 2008 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Equitable_Enforcer-well said. I have a child diagnosed with RAD (she is young AND my biological child) and it is a serious matter that does need prompt and consistent attention and counseling...and it seem like Larry was not properly given that.

Posted by originalcali on July 25, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

hotwildflower, when you refer to the article on MSN, is that the Newsweek article or something different?

Posted by Stew_Pedasols on July 25, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

equitable--it is apparent in many articles that you are a friend of the king family--you defense of them is commendable since you are defending your friends but to seek to blame other agencies for what the current situation is concerning. didn't it state in newsweek that the family already had difficulty with Larry at previous schools and at home and that they couldn't control the situation and were even "attacked" at their home and had to change Larry's school? it's kind of like playing hot potato and now that there was a hand off and there was the loss of life, the last person to touch it is to blame--it would seem the trouble started at the home long before the change of school and residence.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 25, 2008 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe it was Newsweek.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ogdon: the "real" world should not allow boys to wear girl's clothing. I am sorry you feel that this is acceptable. It's revolting to me. What a shame the gay principal shoved her agenda on these two. "tolerance" apparently means do whatever the hell you want to do whenever and wherever--like the two men french-kissing in a line in front of me and my children at Disneyland last weekend. Let me guess...this is okay with you?!

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sslocal: your "made to conform" statement relates to Hitler. I said nothing of the school district. Do you know how many "different" persons there are. So by allowing him to "be different"..."invited ridicule and unacceptable behavior". What do you suggest after he was "made to conform" to dress standards? maybe put a nylon stocking in his mouth? Or would you tie him up with his braclets and necklaces until his actions were "made to conform"

Posted by mac_tire_224 on July 25, 2008 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I too, went to the EO Green website and nowhere does it say you can’t wear heeled shoes. It does reference distracting attire but that is a judgment call that I would not want to make. My 15 year old has blond and pink streaks in her hair…it’s distracting to me but not to others in our family. I also went to Casa Pacifica’s website. They have quite an extensive clinical services department so I am not sure how we can comment on counseling services that were made and/or used by Larry. Isn’t counseling confidential anyways? I read the Newsweek article and as I said before I didn’t like it however they have a comment section much like this one. Well not so much like this one, it had some really disgusting comments but one struck me as interesting. It was from Maeve Fox and she stated that the article was rife with inaccuracies and reminded the readers about the disclaimer at the end of the article.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

alex.poet, Correction Brandon was not at casa pacifica Larry King was!Larry King needed a mentor you are right abouth that, but even though it is okay to be whatever sexual being you want, it is NOT okay to harass others!

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I think a girl with pink streaks in her hair is not as distracting as a boy with high heel pumps on, give me a break!

Posted by mac_tire_224 on July 25, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

See that is your OPINION. You give me a break.

Posted by opns on July 25, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gen, your right, even his Larry’s little brother saw the signs –
Casa Pacifica, Child protective services, School board, and parents –
You ought to all be a shamed of yourselves, this was a candle burning on both ends and appropriate action was not taken. These were young and un-educated, uninformed and bruised youngsters trying their limits and boundaries and sexual being to the end.
Yeah intervention is expensive, but please, this was an extreme case, and even little brother saw it.
We live in a not so accepted society – and to the gay website – are you happy now?
You get to exploit this little boys death even more. How outrageous and despicable.
And to the parents – you should all be locked up for your crimes –
Poor kids – my condolences to them, brothers – but poor old Brandon is gonna have to be tried as an adult due to the neglect of the above.
A little boy is now in heaven looking down and probably asking- What happened?
It wasn’t my time yet. How come nobody came to help me. They tried, but they failed me. And, Brandon, ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t know’.
I didn’t know these little guys, but I grieve for them.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

VCfromMD: I think you should have had the French-kissing men arrested, immediately!! lol. After all gay marriage is legal in California. I am resigned to reality. I am tolerant and try to be understanding. However, I feel your thoughts are destructive, narrow minded,and indicative of why people resort to court rulings to aggressively institute their rights. Live and let live.

Posted by sslocal on July 25, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ogdon272,
You are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.
If Larry wanted to be gay, so what. He was still a boy going to a county school that had dress codes. By being made to conform I mean his parents/guardian should have been called to pick him up or to bring proper clothing that conformed to standards.
By trying to force your gay agenda you breed the very thing you are trying to avoid, intolerance.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 11:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That is most peoples OPINION, and that has to be taken into account, look we can all be what we want but when we are at school, work , etc. most of us have to dress and behave professionally, and that is life... is it not?

Posted by mac_tire_224 on July 25, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

True sunny, I agree but the dress code does not gender specify. I don't know if it can but it certainly could prohibit heeled shoes of any kind, which I think it probably will next year. They prohibit steel toe shoes.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry to disappoint you Alex, but I understand homosexuality. call me a bigot if it makes you feel better about yourself. I don't agree with your sweetness and light version of the world. Being gay has NEVER been accepted or acceptable beyond a few square miles in three states. While you don't want to hear it THOUSANDS of years of human history have never supported being gays. I can't wait for November to support normal, acceptable, dignified human behavior.

Posted by ogdon272 on July 25, 2008 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sslocal: Last time for you!! You have exposed the true ignorant person you are. "trying to force your gay agenda". I am not gay, I am married and have two kids, but that shouldn't be of importance to you. I can quote you in every comment you make for the bigot, prejudice person you truely are. I was right all along, that's why you have "ss" in you name!!

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What is normal (why should we tolerate) about putting a body part in the last part of the human digestive tract? Riddle me this Batman!

Posted by VOR on July 25, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Equitable_Enforcer, from the sound of it if Larry did suffer from RAD then my heart goes out to the King family. It only goes to show the devotion they had to their son and the amount of frustrations they dealt with on a daily basis.

It also sounds like the county, school and Casa handled Larry wrong from the beginning. They did just about everything wrong you could do when dealing with a RAD kid, including having Larry live at Casa. Seems to me all these high dollar shrinks that are on the county payroll could have seen the symptoms early on and done the right thing in which case this tragedy could have been totally avoided.

Hopefully this will raise awareness about RAD so that other kids and families are not torn apart by unknowing social workers and other tragedies can be avoided.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 25, 2008 at 11:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Can't we all just get along? We can have intelligent debates on ther without name calling. Homosexuality is a very sensitive subject and there are people on both sides of the debate that will draw hard lines. You're not going to change the other's mind.

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on July 25, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Stew, I am not defending anybody. I am merely trying to surface factual information regarding a condition that was noted in the Newsweek article as a possible explanation for behavior. There is more evidence to support the theory that Larry was used as a pawn to further an agenda and, that as a consequence he was placed in harm's way, than there is to support the concept that his parent's are somehow to blame for what happened. Hopefully, all the facts will surface. If Casa was contributory, we should know. If the school administration played a part, we need to know that, too. As for the Kings, too many of you are already sure in your minds that they are guilty ... of somthing.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunny - thanks for the correction. I try to keep my names straight, but sometimes I mess up in the heat of the moment.

I guess you guys don't understand how this evolves. Let me give you a play by play on what its like.

Larry shows up to school in heels and lip gloss.
Lunchtime comes by – a group of boys go over to him and start calling him names, pushing him around. At 15, he’s rather small.
What options does he have? Should he go tattle to some administrator – yeah he probably did try that. Does he merely need to sit there and take the abuse? He’d obviously lose if he decided to fight them.
So Larry decides to get away from them by freaking them out. Accusing his harasser of being gay and saying he likes them.

I imagine Brandon had a disposition towards Larry very similar to that of VCfromMD, one of disgust. He can’t handle it so temporarily leaves Larry alone.

There are no secrets in Junior High. All the other kids know that Brandon can’t handle being called gay, so they all decide to call him gay. Brandon blames Larry for his misfortune.

I’ve heard that he asked his father what to do, and his father was the one who told him to shoot Larry, and put him in his place.

Brandon obtains a gun, and brings it to school, he waits til he has class with Larry. Larry teases Brandon, and turns around to go back to his work. Brandon pulls out the gun and kills Larry with multiple gun shots to the back of the head.

Much can’t be said about Larry’s parents either. They put him in Casa Pacifica because he was not their ideal son. His gender bender ways meant that they couldn’t love him like they loved his younger brother. Maybe VCfromMD is his father who became disgusted with his own offspring.

SSLOCAL - sounds like your argument about his parents stepping in went out the window. How many children need to be tossed out of their family homes because of their sexuality until you think that this about a gay agenda promoting intolerance.

There is a gay agenda because how parents and peers treat LGBT children in country, and they are sick and tired of all the abuse!

Posted by cslaurie on July 25, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bottom line - for want of thirteen days this boy would not have been tried at all. To try him as an adult is wrong. And to other posters, CYA can hold a juvenile until age 25, so that makes a sentence 11 years. That's a long time when you are young.

Posted by VCfromMD on July 25, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hi hot -you are right about that. alex- thx for calling me a bigot (feel better?).

Posted by sslocal on July 25, 2008 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmm, talk about intolerant.

Bandon was known to me. His brother is a friend of my children. While I have only met Brandon a few times he seemed troubled to say the least.

By me saying 'your gay agenda' I am not implying that you are gay. I'm sorry if you had that impression.
Also, if you can't express yourself without calling names or resorting to Nazi references, I would ask that you refrain from posting and/or seek the services of a good therapist.

Posted by cslaurie on July 25, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Gay agenda??? Wrong is wrong. If the victim was reversed it is wrong to try a child as an adult.

Posted by VOR on July 25, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alex.poet are you in some sort of dream world? You should really control your speculations on things as they are probably wrong.

I seriously doubt that Brandon's father told him to shoot Larry. Be serious. I also know that Larry's family did not send him away to Casa. Perhaps the rest of your story is correct or plausible but please spare me the drama and inaccuracies about the two families. I am sure they are hurting enough without having to read your wild speculations.

Posted by opns on July 25, 2008 at 12:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The majority of intelligence has ruled juvenile out- glad to be discussing with serious persons on a serious issue.
I know I heard that quote somewhere - "Can't we all just get along"? Oh yeah, Pacoima, SFV.

Posted by 805grl on July 25, 2008 at 12:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I totally agree with you aroma. And I have read the article on newsweek.... I havn't changed my opinion on this one!

Posted by babyjanehudson on July 25, 2008 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How sad for the lad. But murder is murder and at 14 kids know the difference between right and wrong.

I blame the parents in situations like this, because any children are subjected to the parents' bigotries and beliefs.

If they claim he is a "good Christian" boy, then obviously that religion didn't teach the boy anything about the 10 Commandments, namely, "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

Even a 10yr old understands the act of murder and follow thru with it. Again, it's the parents that mold their children into their image/beliefs/bigotries....

The boy will have to deal with God at a later time.

2 human lives destroyed. Don't you Religious people even care that another human, especially gays, are murdered in cold blood?

I guess not, because your God is a "heterosexuals only" God of hate and intolarance. Stop brain washing our children.

God did create gay children if you like it or not. You will be judged by your own criteria too.

Posted by opns on July 25, 2008 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

myop- so so right, if these kids would of been brought up correctly, can you imagine the sort of intelligence that has gone to waste. Again, prosecute the parents, I wish i could of been their parent, it would of been nice to have some sons. What a loss.

Posted by opns on July 25, 2008 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

becareful babyjane - don't let the double edge sword get you --
Yeah the 10 commandments say, 'thou shall not kill', it also says, 'honor thy father and thy mother', not 'honor by father and father' and so on.
Not all christian faiths think alike, and further, I know of many faiths where people attend, and don't condone all this is taught. Just because you belong to a certain faith - dosen't mean they all hate gays. Not even. I could care less what the gays believe - it's their right. But easy easy there.
Everyone is given a choice.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 1:01 p.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't understand the comments made "blame the parents".. yes I understand that good and decent upbringing is crucial to a child's wellbeing and how he/she will be as an adult. But when or shall I say, why should it be completely the fault of this boys parents? I mean if anyone is to hold majority of the blame it should be Brandon. Regardless of how f*%ked up his life was HE TOOK THE GUN TO SCHOOL TO KILL THIS BOY! My parental upbringing was not the most picturesque, I had a very abusive parent and one that turned to denying it; but damn it I never wanted to bring a gun to school and kill a class mate nor did I ever want to kill either of my parents! Geez, when are we going to put blame on the person(s)commiting the crime? Not their parents, not their living conditions, not their "possible/made up" mental status, but on them and their acts! I mean hell maybe if I do commit murder I can blame it on society expecting me to wear lipstick and high heels! Excuses people are like a$$holes, everyone's got one and they all use'em! Let's just start taking responsibility for our actions and teaching our children to reach out, not act out if something is bothering them. That not every child or person in this world is going to look, act or think like they are. That there are differences in everyone whether it be a boy with lipstick on or not! It's ok at Halloween and no one blinks an eye. The world is changing and we need to learn to change with it and adapt to the times. People are full and more open to self expression, instead of mocking them, teasing them or making them feel different engage them. You do have the right to wear or not wear lipstick and heels and you have the right to teach your child they don't have to. But we shouldn't have the right to judge people for who or what they are! As we wouldn't want them to judge us based on our imperfections!

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 1:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey JOKER - its called a prostate. And what goes on in other people's bedroom is none of your business, perv.

Posted by mac_tire_224 on July 25, 2008 at 1:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms_California, Nicely stated.

Posted by pweinman on July 25, 2008 at 1:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He brought the gun to school for one reason. He pulled the trigger 3 times. 3 bullets went into Larry Kings head. Young Brandon deserves what is coming to him, JUSTICE!

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Veracious1 is right, and you people belong in Somalia and the U.S. states should join the rest of the civilized world and not put such punishment on a 14 yr. old (By 3 weeks)! I don't see this a JUSTICE!!

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunny .. this 14 yr old MURDERED another child! You must be one of those parents that doesn't believe in punishing your children for back behavior. I am sure that if Larry was your child you would have a totally different view!

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunny, I'm just curious, if you we're the judge what kind of sentence would you hand down.

I'm stuck on this one - for him to only spend 4 years in juvie is not enough - but life in prison seems too much.

I guess I think justice would be served if he had a twenty to thirty year sentence... which is most likely something he can get a deal with the DA.

California Hate Crime statutes state that he will have an augmented sentence. If some of the other commenters are right, and he murdered Larry because he was biracial, he could face the death penalty.

# P.C. 190.2(a)(16) – Special circumstances imposing the Death Penalty or Life Without possibility of Parole if the victim was intentionally killed because of race, color, religion, nationality, country of origin.
# P.C. 190.3 – Special circumstances imposing Life Without possibility of Parole if the victim was intentionally killed because of sexual orientation, gender or disability.
# P.C. 422.75 – Penalty for felony committed because of victim’s race, color, religion, nationality, country of origin, ancestry, disability or sexual orientation shall be enhanced one, two or three years in prison, if the person acts alone; and 2, 3 or 4 years if the person commits the act with another.

Posted by Face on July 25, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Since it is not unconstitutional, then the entire Juvenile system should be scrapped. Why pay for two systems? I know people here are not going to be happy until they see a child put to death. They should post a video of his killing by the state to satisfy those here. You can all wring your hands and grin as he dies on the table.

Posted by Haberstit on July 25, 2008 at 1:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay,
I get it. You are an adult when you turn 18.You are 14 and we are going to try you as an adult. Lets say the judge is not a superior court judge but he can preside as one.This kid deserves harsh punishment and possibly life in prison.I think that there is a strong possibility that he is insane and should not be allowed to return to society within the next 30 years.If someone sentences him to death they should be brought up on charges themselves.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms_Cal- Not that it is any of your business but I have lost a child, and know the grief that goes with that and my children are punished for misbehaving but not physically! But I believe in forgiveness and fairness. I don't see any point in compounding the loss of life in this case!

alex_ to answer your question I believe he should do 15yrs. like he would be sentenced to juvenile court! Don't you think that Brandon getting counseling and help would be more fitting. Maybe some kind of sexual abuse happend to him when he was young I don't know , but I do know society might better be served if one day Brandon was able to help other kids who might shoot a kid, by talking to them about his experience. I don't know but I do know that I am against any child being thrown away!

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

According to stolenboy.com:

"Ms. Fox charged Brandon with Count I, murder, which carries a mandatory minimum of 25 years to life with no possibility of parole. She also charged him with a gun enhancement that carries a mandatory minimum of 25 years to life with no possibility of parole and a hate crime enhancement that carries a 1 to 3 year consecutive term. That’s 51 mandatory minimum years of Brandon’s life. The kid who, if three weeks younger, would never be considered fit for adult court, is now headed for the death sentence."

51 years... Maybe Larry could have lived to 51.

I think the DA is in a tight spot here because of all the national attention.

If Brandon is smart, he'll plead no contest and tried to get reduced charges.

I think 51 is too much. He deserves a second chance... but not for a LONG time.

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on July 25, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Larry's family disowned him because he was gay."

It is quite clear that many are posting without reading in depth all the posts ... and not reading the Newsweek article. Larry's father had no problem with Larry being gay ... IF, in fact, he was gay, which is questionable. There was the everpresent challenge of Larry's conduct, almost all of which was within the classical symptoms of RAD, as surfaced in the Newsweek article. Larry was removed from his home because it was alleged that his adoptive father struck him. Because of the RAD diagnosis, the charge of physical abuse should only be taken seriously if there was substantiating evidence.

The facts should all come out in trial.

Posted by Ms_California on July 25, 2008 at 2 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SUNNY no one said you have to punish your children physically. Brandon won't be punished physically but how funny... Larry was! A loss of a child is devistating nonetheless but a murdered child is unacceptable, intolerable and preventable. Why should Brandon be treated so laxly? That is what I just don't understand. I am not offering him to the firing squad but I do believe he did a commit a very heinous act. I don't believe that 11 years is enough but I believe 51 is too much. Let's be honest here, Brandon isn't going to turn into this great speaker of wrongs and rights based on his tragic events. Even if he was in jail for only 11 years. This kid is like a pitbull, he had the hate in him & it was bound to come out. Whether it be shooting a classmate or shooting a cat. He was troubled and filled with hate. What makes you think that he even regrets what he did? I haven't once read a comment by his attorney even offering sympathy from Brandon for his actions. They aren't denying he committed the murder. He was a classmate at least say you feel bad for his family's loss ... something! Most killers believe their victims deserved what they get, look what they say about rape! "Oh it was because the girl was drunk, wear a short dress and asking for it" Oh please! people look in the mirror you are responsible for you and yours pull your heads out long enough to breathe and do something about these terrible tragedies that are killing our children!

Posted by Comments on July 25, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm glad that I'm not having to decide whether or not Brandon gets tried as an adult. My heart sways in both directions and it's hard to keep emotions separate. My initial reaction was that he should be tried as an adult. However, once I thought it through and read various reports, I'm not so sure. It just seems so tragic for both lives to end. Yes, he murdered Larry in cold blood. And yes, it was premeditated. I don't think that there's any disputing those facts. And I feel that the punishment should fit the crime. What I'm not sure of is exactly what that punishment should be.

What I do know is that this case isn't as black and white as either side would want folks to believe. I am disgusted that Larry's tragic death is being used by certain groups to help them push their own agendas. That's just shameful to me. That poor kid was let down by so many people in his life that it makes me sick to see that he's still being taken advantage of even in death. I do not think for a minute that this is about being gay or gay rights. I personally have never understood why straight folk (I'm straight in case you're wondering) feel so threatened by gay folk. Really, what's the big deal? It just baffles me and always has. I remember way back in HS (28 yrs ago) we had issues like this. We had a gay/lesbian alliance on campus then and there was a gay pride week. So many students were awful to these folks. I remember standing in line with them wearing arm bands in their honor. I will never understand hating person for who they are.

That said, I do think that Larry was a very troubled boy, and not because he was gay. He had a troubled life and he clearly was not getting the proper support from any of the adults in his life. I think some folks here have it wrong in thinking that Brandon was the one doing the bullying. From all accounts I've read it's clear that Larry was the one harrassing and bullying Brandon - on a daily basis. And, no one intervened to make it stop. Telling Larry to knock it off wouldn't have been taking away his rights. School officials would have been just as remiss if they hadn't told a boy who was harrassing a girl all the time to knock it off. Most schools have sexual harrassment rules. Even Larry's father says that he has no doubt that Brandon was being sexually harrassed.

I don't think any of that excuses Brandon's actions. However, I do think that we should look at all the facts no matter how much our emotions come into play. I also agree that the adults in both kids lives were negligent. I'm not blaming them per se, but they certainly have some responsibility for raising the children they did. None of them would be up for parent of the year. And, school officials really need to take some of the responsibility as well. This was a bad situation that was clearly escalating and they had no clue how to handle things so instead did nothing. Shame on them.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 2:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

patticakepatti- I believe you are right Ms Cal is probably ms fox or at the very least a close friend or family member. Thank 4 that. :-) lol!

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on July 25, 2008 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms CA

"When I was in HS alot of the guys and girls wore eyeliner and lipstick"

First this is Junior High school
Second THEY HAVE RULES AGAINST IT NOW!

We use to also run around with BB guns...

It isn't the 70's 80's anymore chickey.

Posted by Stew_Pedasols on July 25, 2008 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Vor--the same statement goes out to you--didn't it state in newsweek that the family already had difficulty with Larry at previous schools and at home and that they couldn't control the situation and were even "attacked" at their home and had to change Larry's school? it's kind of like playing hot potato and now that there was a hand off and there was the loss of life, the last person to touch it is to blame--it would seem the trouble started at the home long before the change of school and residence.

Posted by Dragonflies on July 25, 2008 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Can anyone confirm this? I understand that the principal at EO Green, at the time of the shooting, was gay and is no longer working there. Possibly this is why there was tolerance to Larry's appearance during school hours.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 25, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I heard she was promoted to Principal at an elementery school. Nothing says you messed up like a promotion.

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 3:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

patticakepatti- Well that should certainly make people stop and think... maybe? I just know that is WRONG to try him as an adult.. it just is!

Posted by hotwildflower on July 25, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

excuse me, *elementary* (long day!)

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 3:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually, Larry was in his legal rights as a student to wear the shoes and make up under SB 777. The school would have to have banned make up and high shoes for the entire school population in order to prevent Larry from dressing that way.

Joy Epstein is one of three vice principals there. She was out to faculty as is her right, but she is not generally out to students. National media coverage probably means this is no longer true.

This is just speculation, but she probably worked with Larry the most because her colleagues probably thought it was best that she would be the most capable to work with him.

Newsweek states that Larry approached Epstein and not the other way around.

What I want to know is where he got the gun.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 3:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Actually she is still a vice principal at E.O. Green.

http://eogreen.huensd.k12.ca.us/info/...

Where did you hear that she got promoted to principal from?

Posted by SUNNY on July 25, 2008 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe that either the gun came from his father or his grandfather why?

Posted by hotwildflower on July 25, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Newsweek

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 3:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

........maybe its the same gun that was used to shoot his mom?

Posted by BHAK on July 25, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hmmm, most of you talk about Brandon as being JUST 14 yrs 3 weeks. What about Larry being Just 15 and 4 weeks at the time of his death. 1/13/93-2/13/08. Think about that.

How do you know if Larry was gay or not.. The article stated that he was shoved and picked on in P.E Class, daily name calling in the halls. He may have just wanted to turn the tables on his tormentors and let them feel what it was like being bullied all the time. Maybe his way of fighting back the only way he knew how.

Another thing in the articles it stated Brandon was a Jr. Marine. So he especially knew what a gun would do.

You all need to stop giving Brandon excuses for his action.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, it was a gun, in the computer room, by Brandon. Stop trivializing his death.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

However, if we do play Clue, I get to be Professor Plum.

Posted by Dragonflies on July 25, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alex.poet - Quote from Newsweek Magazine Section: "That anger was made worse when he heard this summer that Epstein would be promoted to principal of an elementary school. "This is a slap in the face of my family," Greg says. Many teachers wonder if the district moved her because she had become a lightning rod for criticism after Larry's death. Dannenberg, the superintendent, says that she was the most qualified person for the new principal job.
".

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 25, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow
Slkrck- you are right. Insiders do know but some insiders are lying to save face. Can you just see it? Greg King maintaining his distain that Larry was gay now, yeah like that was going to happen.
Hotwildflower- funny, All this time I was doing the right thing to get a promotion and all the while I just needed to mess up? Go figure. BTW Go Rams.
Ms Epstein was promoted based on merit and nothing else.
Ms California- I don’t think you are Maeve Fox or even a relation but you are sound in my book.
MMSHOOT- You normally have the most “Romper Room” esque comments. Now you are complaining?

The Newsweek article was crap and I hope you all keep it so that you can compare truths and lies, when all is said and done.

Posted by Dragonflies on July 25, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

gen, thanks for the information on the Newsweek article. It was very informative. Some of you other contributors should read it and get some of your missing information answered as did I.
BHAK: Here's an answer for you. Quote from the Newsweek article, "Finally, his best friend, Averi Laskey, pulled him aside one day at the end of class. "I said, 'Larry, are you gay?' He said, 'Yeah, why?' " He was 10. ".

Posted by Stew_Pedasols on July 25, 2008 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

alex--thank you for putting juveniles in their place--now on to those who are driven by tabloids...

Posted by Dragonflies on July 25, 2008 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Alex - Just stating what's in black and white, making no judgments whatsoever!

Posted by Dragonflies on July 25, 2008 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anastasia_Beaverhausin - What proof do you have of the truths and lies? Some could say the same right back to you!

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 25, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dragon you are correct but when all is said and done, you can come back on here and see that I did not lie. I will stand by everything I say.

Posted by OFD_Wife on July 25, 2008 at 4:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anastasia_Beaverhausin I suspect you know what you are talking about but don't be surprised at the negativity that will come your way.

Posted by alex.poet on July 25, 2008 at 4:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@ Dragonflies:

:) You'll know when I'm peeved. I was just answering your query. However, I would not put much weight to Greg and "his slap to his family." You have to remember that it was Casa Pacifica that gave him a Christmas present, and I really doubt he got one from his parents who were accused of beating him.

Personally, I don't think I would have told Larry to get brown stilettos. He probably would have looked a lot better in zebra stripes. LOL

@Stew - you're welcome, lol, I'm not quite sure for what though.

Posted by livin_n_learnin4life on July 25, 2008 at 6:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It has been stated time and time again that Larry King was having gender identity problems, and had been in other schools. I am sure with out a shadow of a doubt that when he entered E.O. Green that administration knew of this child’s previous problems. I say this as I know for a fact that when Larry approached other "male" students, these students did not want to be around Larry and what Larry represented and that is a "gay" person. One would think with the complaints from students that were coming into the school office would have been a red flag, that something needed to be done. But instead the student who was being pursued by Larry would be the people who had to sit in the office during breaks and lunch.

I understand that in today’s world it has become more prevalent as to same sex relationships. I also believe what needs to happen in our schools across the US is to set up some sort of group or club that deals with BOTH sides. Many of our local high schools have a club for gays and also peer counseling. Parents you need to be in tune and involved with your child and ask them more questions about their day etc. If there is an issue that needs to be addressed at your child’s school then address those issues, and if nothing gets resolved then take it to the next level until something is done.

We may not all agree with same sex relationships and we have the right to disagree, but that does not give ANYONE the right to do such a heinous act as to end some ones because of their sexual orientation.

How sad that we here in Oxnard had to have such terrible things happen to make National News. Then again today make the news as to the outcome of the juvenile/adult trial. I for one am a believer in the law, and have even told my own children you do the crime you pay the time. I believe that Brandon McInerney had to have known what he was doing. He brought a gun to school! For what other reason would anyone bring a gun to school etc., if they did have premeditated thoughts of taking matters into their own hands. In this case Brandon McInereny should be tried as an adult. Stop doing the, oh this child routine and about his life etc. Remember there were 2 boys involved who BOTH had problems. One with gender identity and social problems who is now dead, and the other who had a difficult family life who took it upon himself to kill his classmate.

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 25, 2008 at 8 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Veracious 1 you are one sick puppy. You appear to want a civilization that is dictated by a one thinking group. Be very careful the control is not given to group you disagree with. Scary

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 25, 2008 at 8:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

high_society
Do you realy want to hurt China like that? <wink>

Posted by einahpets on July 25, 2008 at 9:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

With regards to Ms. Epstein, I think its totally absurd to point the finger at her- just because she is gay. I think its comforting to know that Larry connected with some adult at that school. It sad that Brandon was unable to connect with some adult to discuss what was occurring.

I appreciate people like Ms. Epstein, and hope that there are many more educators who know that the key factor to successful learning is building relationships with todays youth. Most importantly doing so while maintaining professional boundaries.

For both Brandon and Larry more needs to be put into place at all schools; tolerance programs, counselors, youth officers, etc.

I was saddened by today's headlines about the case. I am one of those who believe Brandon should be tried as a juvenile.

Posted by abbyjacks on July 25, 2008 at 10:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No one is saying Brandon should not be held accountable for his actions, but...

Turning 14 twenty days prior to the crime and being charged as an adult looking at the circumstances is WRONG.

The school knew of the constant harassment and they should have taken steps to address BOTH children. As adult educators we are the ones that should be on trial for failing both of these children.

The thing that keeps being lost in the coverage of this story is that these two young boys were both trying to handle changes and feelings that go along with puberty, sexual orientation, individuality and just plain "growing up". No one took the time to address them on ways to appropriately cope.

The media really needs to cover the WHOLE story and the actions between these 2 boys prior to the murder.

The school and its administrators knew what was transpiring between each child (and that it was escalating)WEEKS prior to the shooting.

It is not like one second Brandon is being harassed the next second he pulls out a gun and shoots.

Brandon is a child and he should be tried as one.

Posted by Close_Enuff on July 25, 2008 at 11:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

slkrchck:
You are most correct in stating that Ms. Epstein was not the Principal of E.O. Green. She was the Vice Principal of the 7th grade at E.O. Green. Both of the students in question were 8th graders, yet she was inter-twined in the contraversy, apparently of her own chosing.

In normal situations, when a catastophic event happens, management freezes sub-management movement until a proper investigation can be done. There is no doubt that the murder of Lawrence King qualifies as a catastrophic event. How or why would the Superidendent of Hueneme School District promote someone who was so inter-twined into that event before an investigation could be completed?

He risks, at least, seeming to disregard the safety of his students in the new school by promoting a person who is the target of speculation and media attention. The decision that he made can only be justified by either he being a complete idiot, or that he has a vested interest. From what I have heard, neither can be discounted.

If for no other reason, Ms. Epstein should not have been promoted because she will be testifying in a murder case with national attention.

The students at Sunkist Elementary deserve a leader who is capable of devoting his/her full attention to their academic needs. Ms. Epstein, having been targeted by both the defense of the accused, and the family of the victim, can not possibly furfill that duty. Her actions, while at E.O. Green, will undoubtedly be challanged vigorously by both parties in criminal and civil lawsuits. How can she possibly engage the legal system while still being tasked with the educational needs of our most precious resource, our children.

Posted by Close_Enuff on July 25, 2008 at 11:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

abbyjacksl:

You assume that Larry was harassing Brandon. That is not a fact in evidence.

Mr. Dannenberg stated in the Newsweek article that the front office never received a complaint. If taken at his word, Brandon never complained about being harassed.

Assuming that Brandon, at 14years, 3 weeks had fathered a child, would you suggest that he was not responsible for that child? Why would his creation of a life be different than his taking of a life?

Posted by nancy_4ever on July 25, 2008 at 11:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I for one shudder when I remember things I did at 14. I know I wasn't in my right mind. I admit, I was bad. Everyone should be given a chance. This kid is 14. Living with this crime will be a punishment in itself. This little boy will be incarcerated with full blown men. He deserves leniency. We don't know what personal demons he has been fighting since his childhood.
As an attorney I would argue as to the availability of weapons, the ecouragement of their use (via television and computer games), and the broken down and violence he was exposed to in his family. He wasn't as strong as his victim, he wasn't killing Brandon that day - he was killing what he thought were his own demons.

Posted by leftwing_adam on July 26, 2008 at 1:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

someone else on another website said this:

>>> He committed the crime- now he must do time- or better yet, strap him to the chair and flick the switch-one less straight ,evil f---tard in the world. No more pity or excuses for garbage males like this anymore. <<<

i agree!

Posted by livin_n_learnin4life on July 26, 2008 at 2:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

For all those who are missing the point... I am not here to point a finger at any one who is "gay". What I was saying and still will stand my ground and will stand corrected if I am worng (which I seriouly doubt)is that someone at the school (regardless of their sexual orientation) did know there were problems that involved Larry King. Also it is sad that we as adults, teachers, parents, etc. have tunnel vision and refuse to face the music and deal with the problems at hand.

So, as we all continue to comment back and forth (it is obvious that some of you are getting upset with others) what we should be doing is taking our energy and putting it to good use. GET INVOLVED in your childrens lives. See how you can help out at your local school, community center etc. And please do not say well, I have to work. That is the worst excuse in the books, as we all work. But what is more important trying to teach our children how to be productive in society. Or are we waiting till another heinous act happens again!

Posted by granmama on July 26, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is a tragic case and both families have lost a child one through death and the other perhaps in the adult prison system when he is aged up to be transferred from the juvenile facility to the adult facility. Life without parole in my view is a death sentence for a 14 year old juvenile. For those of you are opposed to first-offending youth being tried and sentenced as adults join hands and help get the laws changed. Proposition 21 is the issue when the age for trying juveniles was lowered to age 14. Mandatory minimum sentences is another issue. Write your legislators and keep involved like you are now by expressing your views. Again, I ask you to go listen to "If I Get Out Alive," http://www.lcmedia.com/getout.htm and read a "Blueprint for Juvenile Justice, http://www.ytfg.org/documents/Platfor...

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 8:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Reforming the law for the next 15-20 years by:
--Chain ganging all four parents--
--Downsize San Quintin to make room--

Put a sign on the parents that says:
"Mother of Brandon, execution date".

This would definately shake up some parents into reform and rehabilitation, I know for sure I would be telling my kid, don't you ever even think, or I will hang ya before they take you away.

I say bring back Chain Gang for the parents!!!!
They deserve this, its their entitlement.

Posted by SUNNY on July 26, 2008 at 8:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How can you say that about Brandon's mother?? He didn't even live with her!! And as for his parents doing drugs and fighting all the time... I know for a fact that his mother has been clean for a number of years, and has turned her life around, and helps other drug addicted mothers turn thier lives around!!

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 9:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well - did she put her child into counseling? you say she turned her life around and helped other drug addicted people, but as a parent, sounds like brandon was put second in line, or who knows 3rd or 4th. What did she do to put brandon first for a change before it was too late.
Clean your own house before you go clean someone elses sunny.

Posted by coastalslinger on July 26, 2008 at 9:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Shouldn't Brandon be considered a transgender instead of gay?

All the gay men I know have no desire to wear makeup, or women's clothing.

Sounds like Brandon had a sexual identity crisis, not a problem as to whether he was gay, or not.

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and sunny, I'm so sorry for your loss, just read the most recent threads. I would of mentioned my condolences as well to you.

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 9:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Very much so, and a proud one too.

Posted by SUNNY on July 26, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

coastalslinger- I think you meant Larry may be transgender... not Brandon.
opns- thank you for your condolences... but, I don't believe Brandon's mother had custody of him so there really isn't whole lot she could do, except straighten uo her life and help those that she could... like herself, his younger brother, and hundreds of women and children.

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

She could of followed up with the courts to find out if the father had him in counceling.
and okay, because of her good behavior, leave the chains on and take off the sign of both mom and dad. yikes huh.

Posted by coastalslinger on July 26, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you Sunny....yes, I meant Larry

Posted by SUNNY on July 26, 2008 at 9:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Unless the courts ordered counseling, I don't see how she could make his father take him. From earlier reports they were in a bitter custody dispute, before Brandon's father got custody.

Posted by SUNNY on July 26, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

coastalslinger- you're welcome! 8-)

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The courts are so back logged it isn't funny. Did mother and father have family? Or were they drugged out too and beating each other to h_ll.
I have seen too much on both sides of the spectrum to the extreme to not condone harsh penalties for parents. I've seen survivors and as in Brandon's case not a survivor of his enviornment.
The court system can only do so much.

Posted by SUNNY on July 26, 2008 at 10:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

opns- what?

Posted by Viamund on July 26, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In the United States of America, age 14 is old enough to be tried as an adult for a violent crime yet it is not old enough to consent to harmless recreational sexual pleasure. Small wonder the U.S.A. is so "screwed up".

Posted by SUNNY on July 26, 2008 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nor is 14 old enough to vote, drive, drink, etc. Yet it's old enough to be served a term in an adult prison!! Doesn't make sense.

Posted by abbyjacks on July 26, 2008 at 3:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Like I said before: The Media has not covered the true facts in this case and a little boy will end up paying for it.

Newsweek, Time Mag. or the President can say what ever they want but this does not make it true (lets pull r heads out)

The administrators at the school were very aware of what was going on (and spoke about it often).

The reality now is a boy is dead, another ones life is over and the administrators want to keep their jobs. So... tell me again... it was covered by Newsweek and this means everyone involved spoke truthfully! Who's interest does this serve???

Come on people, are we really this ignorant.

I hope for Brandon's trial we become more informed of the truth from facts not media spins on what "they" want us to believe.

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 26, 2008 at 4:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

People Magazine VS Newsweek
In the People article, in March 2008, a family spokesperson Phillip Cohen stated that the family “arranged for him to live temporarily in the nearby foster home”. He further states that it had nothing to due with his sexuality but that it was an effort to curb some erratic behaior such as waking in the midle of the night, cooking a meal then throwing it out. “They were trying to scare him straight” says Cohen.
However Newsweek reports that,
Larry began telling his teachers that his father was hitting him. Greg says he never harmed Larry; still, the authorities removed Larry from his home in November 2007. He moved to Casa Pacifica, a group home and treatment center in Camarillo, five miles away from Oxnard.
Which is it?

Posted by granmama on July 26, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The way I see it, the majority posting on this article are opposed to a first-offending 14 year old being tried and sentenced as an adult to a lengthy adult prison sentence. If you look at the statistics the recidivism rate among those sent to adult prison is higher than for the juveniles who were sent to the juvenile facilities. This country has tried the adult sentencing now, it is time to go back to the reforming the system such as the Blueprint for Juvenile Justice Reform, http://www.ytfg.org/documents/Platfor...

Are we willing to write our legislators, are we willing to work together for change? www.juvenilejusticefoundation.com

Posted by opns on July 26, 2008 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

overly inflated ego
arrogant and unreasonable
control freak
dysfunctional and harmful
assumptions, flawed
blame
misleading
unfairly ignore
dishonest
ignore

terrific parents, never proclaimed to be a terrific parent – although, many outstanding citizens have called me that.

I did everything humanly possible to break the cycle, which I personally did with the help of 1 parent. So I got my overly inflated with the help of my 1 single parent who did everything humanly possible to start somewhere at a very good time in my life.

I hope some youngster is paying attention, because it is possible to break a cycle. And to see that not all parents are alike, and that they too can make a difference in society. And that I know for a fact that parents can change – but darn, a little bit too late.
As in these youngsters I would of loved to have as children.
So I beg your pardon?
It was called tough love. Did you read that? Love

You asked me, now I ask you – Are you a parent?
I stand my ground, make parents more responsible people.
Oh, PS- your right - now more prisons!
(summed up)

Posted by VOR on July 26, 2008 at 6:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anastasia_Beaverhausin,

If you look at the symptoms for RAD then I think it all was true. Larry's behavior was erratic, he falsely accused his father of hitting him, and the powers to be didn't understand that Larry was a RAD kid so they over-reacted and thought they could do a better job in parenting. He was probably misdiagnosed as ADHD or something else since he was a little kid and given improper treatment by everyone. Certainly the school, Casa Pacifica, and the county blew it in the way they were treating him. Sounds like just the opposite of what you need to do for a RAD kid. I would bet that Larry probably wasn't even gay and his acting out was one of the symptoms of RAD. The extra assistance given him by Epstein and the other teachers, like the one that gave him a dress, only served to strengthen the RAD problem and feed into it.

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 26, 2008 at 6:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

VOR
What the heck does that have to do with my comment. I only questioned what was the truth, the family “arranged” the placement or authorities “removed” him. Family/family friends made both statements. I just found it odd that the story changed in a matter of three months.

Posted by granmama on July 26, 2008 at 6:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

There are other children in Brandon's situation (some are younger) who have are or have been tried and sentenced as adults. As more and more people become aware of the failure of adult court and adult sentencing for juveniles I hope they will support writing their legislators and help get the laws changed. Here is an interesting report to read, Adult System Worsens Juvenile Recidivism, http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/...
Here's another case for you to read, www.christopherpittman.info

Posted by mandynathan on July 27, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I just want to chime in and again voice my opinion that it is morally and ethically WRONG to try a child as an adult. If our justice system is going to do that, then the laws must be changed, and children treated as adults IN ALL WAYS. In other words, they should have exactly the same rights as adults - they should be able to VOTE, smoke, drink, drive cars, watch R and X-rated movies, work fulltime, not be compelled to go to school, etc., etc. That would be ridiculous, would it not? No more ridiculous than the concept that a child can commit a so-called "adult" crime. A crime is a crime, an adult is an adult, and a child is a child. This ruling, and and the entire concept of trying children as adults makes my skin crawl. This situation is a tragedy all the way around, now made more tragic.

Posted by opns on July 27, 2008 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Grandpa V - with some persons, denial was not an option, because the reality is/was slapping them in the face everyday from day one, they walk away saying 'okay, yeah, that happened to me', it's called acceptance. So when I had to accept reality at a very young age, people do learn to break the cycle.
So, let me put it another way, obviously Prop 21 does not work, our poor kids are suffering due to this, Now its time to prosecute the parents - because obviously their not going to do it, they are so addicted and commiting so much crime themselves running around and refusing to grow up, they neglect to take responsibility for their offspring. Time to make them - yea make them accept responsibility accordingly. And No regardless of my parents imperections, I learned to 'Honor thy mother and thy father', so I beg your pardon again.
So, learned how to deal a long long time ago, prior to leaving home to hate the crime, but not the person. I don't know how old your grandchildren are, but things are a whole lot different these days. So, it's time to change the system.

Posted by granmama on July 28, 2008 at 6:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by granmama

I think it is time those opposed to proposition 21 stood up and started petitioning to change proposition 21. First offending youth such as Brandon, Sara Kruzan, and many others should be given a chance at rehabilitation, counseling, and education within the juvenile justice before being waived to adult courts and rendered long adult prison sentences. Go look at this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Aa4u...

Posted by opns on July 28, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, so next time some young misfit was witnessed to committing a crime against you and your family,
Broken car or house window –
Robbery of your home, or personal being just for walking the street –
Being a victim cause you (generalized) of other color-
Or, some 16 year old comes and rapes or kills your 14 year old daughter- and your other grandchildren are left without parents
On and on and on

Don’t come out and get any restitution or justice, you just simply and humbly walk away, okay? Good. Don’t you go and make anyone accountable now. And you just keep on condoning the actions of the parents running the streets, also committing these crimes.

(Oh and by the way, I called you grandpa, just for the sake or trying to make a point to either. Sometimes a mother has to play the role of a father, and grandma the role of a grandpa).
And for a supposed to be intelligent parent – you really ought to watch all the accusatory words against us parents who try to make a difference, not just myself, but others as well. Take heed. And read from other educated parents: www.parentproject.com.

So, with this, I rest my case with you Grandpa or grandma.
Good Day

Posted by alex.poet on July 28, 2008 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

TheVeracious1

Its obvious that nothing you can say can really be taken seriously as you spout so much ignorance from your 1991 mentality. I bet you still call AIDS GRID.

I'm calling you out because you said this:

"Just wait until we hear those magic words 'They can't help it. We now know that they were just born that way, so we're passing legislation because society has been so ignorant and harbor a deeply rooted hatred towards them. They deserve our respect and special rights and protections. We will need to 'educate and enlighten' the public since they must learn to accept and tolerate these good people.' That's right, it's only a matter of time until the mainstream efforts to normalize pedophilia succeed."

Its obvious that what you are trying to express is that ALL homosexual as pedophiles. This is simply not true. Please feel free to educate your ignorant hatred - most pedophiles claim to be heterosexual and their are many more female victims than males.

I'm not condoning pedophilia, its wrong and it harms a person for life. More importantly, I'm not condoning your ignorance and one-sided views either. You assume and accuse, just like the people you've singled out in your other comments.

Please try to teach your brain a new trick - here's an article that explains pedophilia from WebMD, written by a doctor. Since I know you are tenacious in opinion - I have provided this snippet for you.

"The biggest misunderstanding many people have is that pedophilia and homosexuality are one and the same. But to say that all homosexuals are pedophiles, or that all pedophiles are homosexual, is like comparing apples to rat poison. "They certainly are two distinct things," says James Hord, a psychologist in Panama City, Fla., who specializes in treating sexually abused children.

Hord explains that while some pedophiles may prefer boys over girls, or vice versa, it's not so much about gender as it is about age. For homosexuals, Hord says, sexual preference is "simply not linked to the age." If a man, for instance, is attracted to other adult males, he is a homosexual. A man who is sexually attracted to male children is not considered a homosexual: He is a pedophile."

Here is the rest of the article - http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationship...

Californians do not think that longer sentences deter crime - they do think that it is inadequate justice that a murderer only spends six years (or less) for such a heinous act. With California's population boom, crime has gone up and this law has been used effectively.

Posted by ICU on July 28, 2008 at 1:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Killing is an “Adult Crime” – LOL people. Murder is a crime of anger, fear, revenge, control or lack of, survival, or thrill and none of those emotions are specific to adults. I would call an “adult crime” one that that takes thought, planning, patience, and is motivated by gain vs. risk. An ill thought out, retaliation based act is something we don’t associate adult behavior with; we associate that behavior with KIDS and the immature.

Posted by Kasbah on July 28, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by TheVeracious1

"And you want to blame parents for this mess? I blame people like you, who spend all of their time making assumptions, because they're either too lazy, apathetic, or ignorant to ask any questions and seek to know and understand the truth."

So, besides the victim WHO do you blame? and do not go on about the school or Casa Pacifica. You are critical of others' opinions, but your opinions are not specific in who you blame for this murder. You also do not show any compassoin for the child that was killed, I use the word/description child, because it seems, to me, that you are concerned for Brandon because he is only a child. Or would you say that even if he was an adult that he was pushed to this murder because of the victim?

Posted by granmama on July 28, 2008 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

These are interesting and informative reports.

Proposition 21, Juvenile Crime Iniative, http://www.4children.org/news/100pr21...

Commentary, California Proposition 21 all Smoke and Mirrors,http://hrw.org/english/docs/2000/01/0...

Posted by Anastasia_Beaverhausin on July 28, 2008 at 6:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excellent posts Kasbah and Alex.poet
I have been trying to play catch up in the comment section but one thing that never swayed, veracious appears to be either, an ex Casa Pacifica employee with an axe to bear or simply a blame worthy individual. I have asked for answers to simple question but to no avail. It is becoming obvious that there are individuals that are trying to direct these comments for personal reasons. Your posts are refreshing. Thank you.

Posted by granmama on July 29, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If you support Juvenile Justice Reform, please go sign Christopher's Bill - Juvenile Justice Reform Act, http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeac...

It is my hope that the system can be changed so that first-offending youth such as Brandon and many others can have the chance at rehabilitation, counseling, and education within the juvenile justice system; not the adult court system.

Posted by livin_n_learnin4life on July 29, 2008 at 11:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Who is at fault for this tragic event? We all are! And why? Because we as a society failed to open up our eyes and recognize the early signals that where and are taking place. Instaed of placing blame on others we need to take a stand and admitt that society is failing. People find it much easier to turn there heads and sweep the problems under the carpet instead of dealing with it head on. I still believe that if the administration at EO Green took their heads out of the sand, help could have taken place for both of these young people.

Posted by granmama on July 30, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The saying that it takes a village to raise a child is true. When we are aware of abuse, bullying, neglect, we should intervene for the child's sake. I think many times we are afraid to intervene because of perhaps our suspicions may not be valid. But, if we don't intervene then we must bear some responsibility for being aware and not doing anything about it. It might sound like I am talking in circles, but there are kids who need help, the juvenile justice system in California and in the United States is in dire need of reform. We can get involved in youth programs in the community and perhaps help a child. Bullying is terrible and many lives have been damaged as a result, please go to Bully Police and read the tragic stories. http://www.bullypolice.org/ Please read this report, http://www.ytfg.org/documents/Platfor... sign the petition, Christopher's Bill, http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeac... read Christopher's story, www.christopherpittman.info

Posted by alex.poet on July 30, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

granmama,

Brandon needs to be more than rehabilitated, he needs to spend several years (many more years than the 4 it will take for him to turn 18) behind bars to see that his debt to society is paid.

Brandon cowardly took a life, shot someone in the back multiple times at point blank range. I side with the judge in this case, this murdering villain does not deserve to be looked after by the California Youth Authority.

If he kills like a man, he debt to society should be paid like a man.

Christopher Pitt murdered his parents while under the influence of a prescription anti-depressant, Zoloft. However, Brandon was not under the influence of any such drugs, and his motive was hatred for Larry. They only thing these two cases have in similar is their closeness in age at the time of their incidents. And even then, Christopher Pitt was indeed a child (twelve) when he murdered his grandparents.

Ventura County is known for throwing the book at offenders. Brandon will probably have the book thrown at him, and I don't think he deserves 51 years or the death sentence, but he most definitely does not deserve to be released at 18 either.

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on July 30, 2008 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OKAY WHERE IS THE PERSON THAT SAID DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME????!!!!! GO GET ON YOUR HIGH HORSE ON THIS ONE, AND THIS IS GANG RELATED!

13-year-old charged with murder in 8-year-old cousin's death
Jasmine Sanders was hit by a bullet last week in South Los Angeles while playing with other children, police say.
By Richard Winton, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
8:40 AM PDT, July 30, 2008
In a twist that left a neighborhood stunned, the 13-year-old cousin of an 8-year-old girl who was shot and killed while playing outside a South Los Angeles apartment building last week was charged Tuesday with her murder, authorities said.

The stray bullet that struck Jasmine Sanders in the chest was fired by her cousin, who was apparently aiming at a man who was also at the scene, prosecutors said. Initially, authorities suspected that it was the work of gang members who did not know the victim.

District attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said the boy, whose name is being withheld because he is a minor, was charged in juvenile court with murder and attempted murder. The shooting is believed to be gang-related.

Posted by VOR on July 30, 2008 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LivinInPoorMansPV,

Looks like they are following the law. He is not 14, he is 13 so therefore Prop. 21 does not apply. Brandon was 14 not 13 so Prop. 21 does apply. Ages may be arbitrary but that is the law and there has to be some cutoff so 14 was chosen. The DA in this case can still petition the court to try him as an adult even though he is younger then 14 and probably should. They should also go after the person that gave him the gun.

Posted by JosephHill on July 30, 2008 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What makes this crime 'triply' tragic is the apparent unconcern of the shooter over committing this murder in broad daylight and surrounded by witnesses. This suggests that he felt perfectly justified in murdering his victim....as if nobody could/would blame him for killing a "Queer".

It makes me wonder about the attitudes of his classmate witnesses. Were they so detached and homophobic that McInerney assumed he could get away with this? Are lives (particularly, gay lives) so cheap in their minds that they could be expected to approve of this killing?

I'm so sad for this kid McInerney. I understand that he has led a hard life for a kid his age; but what could possibly have been going through his mind when he did this?

This is tragic...all around. I'm particularly concerned for any gay/Lesbian kids that might have witnessed this.

Posted by JosephHill on July 30, 2008 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

>>>
In today's age, everyone is so freakin' concerned with being "pc" and afraid to step on toes.
>>>

It seems that some folks get up-in-arms about 'political correctness', but they never stop to think that requiring that boys or girls dress in a conventionally accepted way, or requiring that boys do "boy things" and girls do "girl things", etc. is its own "political correctness". Being 'different' is discouraged, often violently, as we see in this sad case.

I often hear the comment, "Oh...why can't they [dress...act...behave] like everybody else!" as if being different is a crime in itself because it offends someone else's sensibilities. In the case of gays and Lesbians, 'political correctness' is used like a club to hit them over the head with for daring to be a 'sissy' or a 'tom-boy' and for not having the same emotional attractions as 'normal' kids.

Gay kids (or any kid who is perceived as being 'different') are made to lie down on a 'procrustean bed' of sorts, and either behave 'correctly' or suffer for not fitting a conventional image.

Think for a minute about who is 'stepping' on whose 'toes'.

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on July 30, 2008 at 3:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks VOR I know why.... I was just making a point to the ignorant person who made the comment "DO THE CRIME DO THE TIME" that this pertains to anyone of any age/race/creed/stature.

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on July 30, 2008 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JosephHill

It does seem as though he acted out like it was justified.....and if I knew I could win a case against myself for murdering a rapist or someone that has been stalking me and abusing me psychologically, I'd CUT HIM! NO ONE DESERVES TO BE ABUSED PSYCHOLOGICALLY, AND BE CONTINUALLY TAUNTED. Larry is far from innocent, but he is not here to try and justify what he did. Unfortunately, if there is such a thing as rip, I doubt he will.

Posted by VOR on July 30, 2008 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Perhaps they need to get rid of the juvenile justice system and just have one system of justice for all. Leave it to a judge or a sentencing committee to determine the punishment based on the severity of the crime with certain guidelines. The problem with the juvenile system now as I see it is that once they are no longer juveniles that is the end of their sentence. In Brandon's case that is only a few years from now. Could it be possible that he thought he would be tried as a juvenile and that a sentence of only 4 years was worth it? I cannot imagine that if he had known he would be tried as an adult he would do what he did.

Posted by alex.poet on July 31, 2008 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

TheVeracious1, I guess you could say that 62.1% (4,491,166) of the voters in 2000 are either ignorant or closet sadists.

That commenter should probably have his own stupidity level checked - a lack of knowledge is not the same as lack in good judgment, however the lack of knowledge can aid in a bad decision.

Most likely, he will only get the 51 years if he pleads not guilty and shows remorse.

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on July 31, 2008 at 10:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Meatball why are you so phobed about homophobes? I think we are all murder/violence phobes and that is all....no one is shifitng blame, we are just trying to understand what makes an individual get to the point of being so violent as to do harm to the point of possible death? A child no less! And what makes a child also think he can go through life trying force people to like him for who/what he is?

I dont think this has anything to do with being gay or not. I dont think Larry was killed because he was "gay", that is stupid!

you need help!

The worst homophobes are the "homo's" that are always blaming everything on homophobes. WE DONT CARE IF YOUR GAY. All of the gay people I know are the nicest upstanding humane citizens. And then there are the ones you here about... the Homo Homophobes. Get a life and live your life.

Posted by alex.poet on July 31, 2008 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

correcteion, he will get less that the 51 years if pleads guilty and shows remorse.. Wow am I not awake?

Posted by granmama on August 5, 2008 at 5:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here's an opportunity for those of us who are opposed to first-offending youth being tried and sentenced as adults. Also, it is an opportunity to discuss Mandatory Sentencing and Proposition 21 - Let's take advantage of this important time and try to meet with our Congressman:

http://capwiz.com/famm/issues/alert/?...

8/1/08 - Meet with your members of Congress this month
Congress returns to their home districts in August for a "district work period." This provides FAMM supporters with a special opportunity to schedule a "home meeting" with your federal representatives and senators and discuss federal sentencing issues. FAMM can help you plan your meeting and has resources to help make it a success. Read our tips for an effective meeting

Posted by Jesse123 on August 6, 2008 at 3:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear Brandon and his weeping Mama: You knowingly did the hate crime, NOW do the time!!! You think poor Larry was a threat to your manhood, wait until you get behind bars. You haven't seen anything yet kid. Have a great life. Relax and enjoy. You made your bed now sleep in it.

Posted by opns on August 6, 2008 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OMGosh Jesse - this is so brutal and true!
How sad.
One day Brandon will be asking himself, "what did I do, if only i would of ......", just as poor Larry in heaven is asking, "why did you do this to me? I wasn't readdy to die"?
And maybe the mother will be saying, "it wasn't my fault, I was a victim toooooo you knowwww.....".