Posted by omie on July 21, 2008 at 11:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this should not happen. two wheeled bretherin should stick together. I've wrecked both a bike and bicycle but at least they where both against cars and I lost. Hope they recover and ride again. I know pelvic fractures are the worst.

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on July 21, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I too think that they should "all get along" but, my husband was on Ventura Road on his bike, when a bicyclist put out his left arm to signal, and cut right in front of his bike - he had to slam on his brakes to avoid hitting the cyclist. He was less than happy about it, as there were no other cars around, and none approaching. The cyclist should have waited before crossing a busy road like Ventura Road without using the crosswalk. He almost dropped his bike due to the other mans inpatience.

Posted by uknowme on July 21, 2008 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have heard that the guy that was riding the motorcycle lost both of his legs!

Posted by localkid64 on July 21, 2008 at 2:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bicyclists are governed by the same traffic laws as all other driver, why is it, that more often than not, they do not feel compelled to obey them? If a driver is not able to maintain the posted speed limit, they should not be in the center of the lane. Bicycle lanes are provided for this purpose. Just because there may be a dozen cyclists, it does not change the traffic laws. I sympathize with the injured party, however, every individual is responsible for there own safety on the highway, whether it is via bicycle, motorcycle or car. To many bicyclists choose narrow, unsafe roads to ride on, and then become enraged when other motorists come to close or honk at them to move to the far right. As a motorist and motorcyclist I've experienced this first hand. Sharing the road doesn't mean bicyclists are free to ride 4 across the lane at 20 miles an hour slower than the posted speed limit. Enjoy your sport, just be responsible and extend the same courtesy to other drivers that you expect for yourselves.

Posted by ca4ever on July 21, 2008 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

well just to set the record straight as the motorcyclist turned the corner, There were a lot of bicyclists in the middle of the road and as he tried to avoid them one of them must have panicked and went right in front of him, so actually it was not the motorcyclists fault and he is not doing well at all. Please pray for him and his family

Posted by sugaNspice on July 21, 2008 at 3:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Couldn't agree with you more Localkid. I only wish some of the bicyclist riding in the canyons and PCH had as much sense. It's way too dangerous in a lot of those narrow, curvy roads.

Posted by justaguy on July 21, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

One very important point that this article is missing that the motorcycle was traveling at an extremely high speed (100+mph). The speed of the motorcycle was so great that the cyclist did not hear the bike coming (according to witness), they only heard the impact. They cyclist had no chance to look around because when they looked back the motorcycle wasn’t there, 2 seconds later he was.
If you look at the location of the accident the bike was coming out of a corner where he had a limited view and had a few seconds to react at that speed. What if there were people crossing the road at that location or there were other obstacles, the outcome would have been tragic as well. When you ride a motorcycle around cyclist you should slow down to the posted speed limit not double of that.
I agree that cyclist should follow all the rules as well but when you ride a 600lbs rocket(Honda CBR100) you should do it under control.
Hope for recovery for all the injured.

Posted by ca4ever on July 21, 2008 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

justaguy - not true, he was not speeding

Posted by ried0033 on July 21, 2008 at 3:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

100 + MPH!!! On a blind curve after passing other cyclists just before the collision. HMMMMMM... Wouldn't you think to slow down, just a thought that would cross my mind... Reminder: There are no bike lanes where this occurred, which does not mean there are no bikes allowed. Hence, the phrase, "Share the Road!" By the way, who gave anyone the entitlement to think that they are the only one who should, no better yet who will on the road??????? This includes EVERYONE!! CARS,TRUCKS,SEMI'S,MOTORCYCLISTS,BICYCLISTS,PEOPLE,ANIMALS,PEOPLE IN POWER WHEELCHAIRS..... HENCE THE PHRASE....."SHARE THE ROAD"

JUST A THOUGHT

Posted by santabarbarasand on July 21, 2008 at 3:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I used to drive the 150 weekly between Ojai and Carpenteria and bicylists thought they owned the road on the weekends. I'd come around a corner at the speed limit and they would literally have the road FULL of bikes. I'd slow down but they would NOT get single file so I could pass them! It happened ALL the time and omg it was so frustrating. It showed me how people can feel road rage and act on it!

Bike riders demand to be treated with respect and they put up signs for us to "share the roads" but they don't share, they run stop signs and red lights and they do are rude when you beep after following them at 15 mph in a 45 mph zone!

If this road had a curve the bike riders should have been single file and at the right of the road. That provides more protection for them and for cars alike. I don't care how fast the bike was going, out on the road without the sound of other cars would mean it could be heard from a reasonable distance, bikes are NOT anywhere near as quiet as cars are! Bogus excuse for the bike rider passing the slow group of bikes and entering the other lane, just after a curve and into the path of oncoming traffic. It's a shame and I hope that with the increase of bike riders lately that they will all make a point to be safer and follow the rules of the road!

Posted by justaguy on July 21, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ca4ever,
The long skid mark from the motorcycle, several witnesses stating excessive speed, the two bodies were laying a 1/4 mile apart, the carnages of the bikes.
They all speak for themselves...

Posted by ried0033 on July 21, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)

ca4ever: You might want to check the skid marks!!!
BTY: The motorcyclist was found 200+ ft beyond impact zone. HMMMMM

Posted by ca4ever on July 21, 2008 at 4:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The motorcyclist was actually found 450 yards from point of impact, again, I wsa there an know he was not going 100 + mph, you are only reading what the star says.

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on July 21, 2008 at 4:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

#1 - CBR 100's are loud.......

#2 - no rider in their right mind would take a curve at 100+ mph....

That's just facts - I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone, but at this point, I have to lean towards trusting ca4ever on this one....

Posted by ca4ever on July 21, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Believe me, I am not on here to debate anyone and I am always the first one to get mad at motorcycles as they usually drive like maniacs, however this was not the case for this accident.

Posted by drz400 on July 21, 2008 at 4:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was there, as a matter of fact I was behind the rider who got hit. I did not hear motorcycle coming from behind.
Friends use to tell me to be careful in canyons while riding my bicycle because I might not here a motorcycle if they coming up fast, well I didn’t believe them until this day.
The corner preceding the accident has very slight bend to the right but it’s right side lined with trees thus impeding the line of sight.
I am not an expert on speed but it felt like a rocket hitting us and as the motorcycle kept going like a wrecking ball it was very freighting it was like watching movie.
I am not here to guess what happened or get into a debate or cast blame, just stating my experience how I saw it.
This was a very unfortunate sequence of events and at this point I wish the best to both parties.

Posted by ried0033 on July 21, 2008 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So how does one travel 4 football lengths if they were not speeding???

Posted by ried0033 on July 21, 2008 at 5:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh yea-
Who cares about speeding...its only the root of the majority of accidents.

Posted by lawson_wayne on July 21, 2008 at 5:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

450 yds from the point on impact? MotoGP racers who crash at 150 or faster don't travel near that far.

Posted by bugmenot on July 21, 2008 at 5:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

if you cannot hear him it's a problem.
if you hear them, they are too loud.

hueneme_girl, the CBR RR's are pretty quiet stock, actually most sport bikes are quiet stock. They get a little loud when they approach red line.

If he was speeding, WOT, running through the gears and you didn't hear him, he must have been doing at least mach1.

it's likely you didn't hear him because he wasn't running through the gears. it doesn't mean he wasn't speeding, just means he wasn't WOT.

i just had a discussion on vcs not more than a couple weeks ago about "loud bikes save lives".

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news...

illzoni, you around?

how could he travel a couple hundred yards without speeding? it could be because he was sliding, maybe on his leather or maybe on his bike. it could also be that we're so used to stationary objects in motorcycle accidents. if you're doing 65mph and jump out your car you will roll quite a ways. if you slide on leather, jeans, backpack, etc, then you'll go much much further with much less friction.

Posted by SomisJD4 on July 21, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Folks. Two wrongs don't make a right and this is classic roadbike vs. speeding vehicle from behind 101. I own property directly above the accident site, with the resulting carnage in full view. This particular section of Bradley roadway is nearly dead straight, with only a slight rise in one spot. It's truly a local drag strip day and night for bikes and cars since it's BETWEEN twisty turns in the road. Stop and look at all the burnout marks at each end one day. I too ride motorcycles and know some riders who routinely hit 130 mph in this section without any problems. It's a short burst but every day I see and hear a biker well over 100 mph. Weekends are full of riders flying up and down at huge speeds on race bikes.

Furthermore, this roadway is out in the middle of seemingly nowhere so cyclists tend to cluster in wide groups chit-chatting. This cyclist group looked to be a team ride (lots of matching jerseys) so lots of guys obviously knew each other. Team road rides tend to have the widest spread on the open highways when they should be pacing in line. You drop your guard on a bicycle and couple that with a speeding motorcycle and BAM!, this is what you get. Very unfortunate but this will not be the last time this happens in Ventura County unless motors slow down and roadies pace it in one line. Ride a mountain bike on the trails and eliminate the vehicle factor! So sorry to see and hear the life-altering injuries! No need for it.

Posted by minisac on July 21, 2008 at 9:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What I Saw -- Part I
I just happened to be gliding above Bradley Road in my hot air balloon on Sunday morning and just happened to look down in time to see the motorcycle come barreling up the road at well over 250 mph! I knew there was going to be trouble as he and the 12 other motorcyclists approached the group of bicyclists on the twisty and somewhat straight and undulating portion of the road. I could see they were all riding similar motorcycles, y'know the ones with two wheels and an engine and seat and handlebars and some gears and WOTs(?). I think they were mostly CREQW342X's and GBK093L's with maybe a few ZXCV32's and RWQFG670-a's. Very quiet and stealthy motorcycles like the kind they make in Botswana. The motorcyclists were dressed in full riding leathers adorned with swastikas, pentagrams, and skulls. Chromed metallic spikes protruded from their helmets glinting in the sunshine. The bicyclists appeared to be playing some sort of game on their bikes where they would weave all over the road creating intricate designs with their tires on the pavement -- designs that could only be seen from the air. Plus, they were singing and talking and wildly gesticulating while riding. Fortunately, the wind had stopped blowing so my hot air balloon remained stationary over the soon-to-be crash site.
See Part II for More...

Posted by minisac on July 21, 2008 at 9:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What I Saw -- Part II
From my time spent in the Army Corps of Engineers and as a highly-paid consultant/observer in the Gulf War, I estimated that there would soon be a collision of the two groups. The first motorcycle hit one of the bicyclists from behind, sending him high enough into the air that I could see his face over the edge of my gondola. He had a surprised look on his face! The motorcyclist was separated from his vehicle and went spinning through the air. He landed nearly 4 miles from the crash site. Only a thin plume of dust in the distance showed where he came down. His motorcycle tipped over and skidded off the road into a herd of alpaca grazing on the ripe lemons that had fallen from the lemon trees recently. They scattered quickly. According to my hasty calculations (I whipped out handy slide rule and graphing calculator), the velocity with which the motorcycle impacted the bicyclist was equal to the blast energy of 120 tons of dynamite being detonated. Only one other motorcyclist stopped to try and find his friend, but he gave up as the other motorcyclist was actually miles away in a lemon grove down by the river. The bicyclist who was hit landed in the middle of the curvy, straight section of road and his friends came to tend to him immediately. At just that moment, a huge gust of wind came up and blew my hot air balloon southward over the hills. At one point, I heard a helicopter coming, but couldn't see it. Given the severity of collision, it sounds like both motorcyclist and bicyclist were VERY fortunate. I think they should post signs along that road instructing bicyclists to ride single file with at least 25 feet between each bicycle, because that's the law in California. Furthermore, I think they should also require bicyclists to ride in full body armor like knights on horseback. This way, motorists will think twice about running over bicyclists because the resulting damage to their vehicles will be too great and too costly to repair. For motorcyclists, I think they should only make motorcycles that are loud and slow. There are some states where motorcycles can't travel over 20 mph on a public roadway. I think California should adopt this law.
That's all I have to say... For now.

Posted by retsuc on July 21, 2008 at 11:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey Mr. minisac motormouth, I think you have been inhaling too much of you own GAS!!!! Your story is way too vague for both parties to even listen to your opion! Maybe you should stop and read what you wrote. You do not know what the hell you saying!!!

Posted by retsuc on July 21, 2008 at 11:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey Mr. minisac motormouth, I think you have been inhaling too much of you own GAS!!!! Your story is way too vague for both parties to even listen to your opion! Maybe you should stop and read what you wrote. You do not know what the @$#%* your saying!!!

Posted by ibarider on July 22, 2008 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please stop assuming you know how things went down out there. There are a few of us on this comment board who were present when the incident occured.
SomisJD4 is correct about this particular stretch of road: "This particular section of Bradley roadway is nearly dead straight, with only a slight rise in one spot." My guess is this is partially the reason why we didn't hear the bikes coming up from behind.
Reid0033 was also accurate: "The motorcyclist was found 200+ ft beyond impact zone." It wasn't 450 yds. I walked the stretch from impact to where the motorcyclist was down. My estimation was about 250-300ft.
Several of the cyclists in the back of the paceline stated that they didn't hear the two motorcycles until they went by. When the bikes passed them, they were pulled into the car lane by the vortex. As an experienced bicyclist, motorcyclist, and motorist, it takes a lot speed for a motorcyclist to have that effect on other objects that size.
I was right next to Mr. White when the impact occured. I never heard the motorcyclist's engine. I just heard the collision.
It's a very unfortunate incident that occured and all that we can surmise at this point is we have two victims of circumstance.
Until it is resolved legally, all of this blathering about blame is pointless. I commend those who have tried to stay impartial while discussing how accidents like this can be avoided in the future.

Posted by retsuc on July 22, 2008 at 7:48 a.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by ca4ever on July 22, 2008 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ibarider - you are correct. thank you for your info

Posted by drz400 on July 22, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ibarider, well said. thank you.

Posted by daltonemail on July 22, 2008 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ibarider-thank you for your most accurate post.
As an emergencey responder my SON WAS one of the first responders (VCFD)on site, saw the carnage, treated Mr. White personally and has followed up on his condition. In his (my sons estimate) Mr. Minster (who he did NOT treat) was found at least 250-300 feet beyond impact zone and perhaps greater than that if you were to measure the distance between the two injured parties...and sadly, depsite the posts that would represent otherwise, speed does appear to be the greatest factor in this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers to both of the injured, their families and friends.

Posted by eurorider on July 22, 2008 at 10:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It is interesting how everyone that was not involved or saw the accident has an opinion. The majority of the opinions reflect the typical small minded American attitude. Only cars belong on the road. Bikes and Pedestrians need to stay of the road. If one happens to get hit, it is their own fault for being on the road. You people need to get out and expand your horizons. In the majority of the world, the bike is actually the preferred method of transportation. WOW what a concept. Share the road and respect the cyclists.

CIAO