Posted by lilmamma on July 16, 2008 at 7:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

These are chains and their employees should know better than to sell alcohol to minors. I hope someone is fired or atleast reprimanded. With all these stabbings and some of the victims being under 18 there must be some underaged drinking and alcohol buying in this county.

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on July 16, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How freakin' hard is it to ask for I.D.? What does it take, like 5 extra seconds? Must just be in it for the $ from sales.........

Posted by weissfam5 on July 16, 2008 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please put yourself in the clerks situation before commenting on this story. I have seen these stings/entrapment first hand. The sheriff's department sent in deputies with the decoy. They are all together. In the case I witnessed, the deputies were all over 40. Why would a clerk assume that an underage person would be buying while with many overage people??

This is entrapment and should be treated as such. Law enforecement is breaking the law by asking underage person to purchase alochol. In my opinion, law enforecement should work the register and bust underage people trying to buy instead of fining minimum wage clerks trying to do a good job.

Posted by Relvd98 on July 16, 2008 at 8:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That's what came to my mind; owners want the money, so they don't bother to ID people. Well, look what happens!

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I personally feel that the drinking age should be lowered to 18... If you're old enough to go to war and fight and POSSIBLY DIE for your country, you should be old enough to drink. I would totally agree with this sting, if the decoys, were 14 - 16. I do agree that in many violent crimes, there is alcohol involved, but let's be honest, you don't mature once you turn 21; it's not magic. As long as there is alcohol involved, no matter the age of the drinkers, there is a good possibility for violence. Just my take.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 8:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Simply ask for an ID every single time. It's more of a hassle for those buying, but it protects the clerk. My dad has been carded into his 60's, he thinks its hilarious!

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 8:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

juniormafia, that same argument can be made on so many levels, like charging children as adults at age 14, kids driving at 16...there is no switch at certain ages but these are simply guidelines.

I can only speak for myself, but there was alot of personal growth between 18 and 21, heck, I would encourage raising the limit to 25...

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on July 16, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nah, I'm w/ Junior on this one. If you can fight for our country, and possibly get killed, or kill others for it, you can have a freakin' beer afterwords! :)

Or, make it 21 to go in the military. Either way.

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hotwildflower, I agree... but, if one is considered an adult at 18, then they should be able to make their own adult decisions... we shouldn't pick and choose what areas kids can be adults in... I say we raise the legal Adult age.

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hueneme_girl29, that is exactly my point.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I completely understand what you are saying about being old enough for military at 18, you're totally right, but the avergage kid is in their senior year of high school at 18...somehow allowing them to drink and be in high school seems a bit off.

I am not disagreeing with you, just showing a different light on the subject.

Posted by Ms_California on July 16, 2008 at 8:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I remember as a kid in Ventura, the place to get alcohol as a minor was little liquor store on Telephone Rd. The store owner never carded and sold the alcohol without even questioning your age. It was pretty obvious that we were not 21 years old!

Posted by oxnard40 on July 16, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How is it that you can marry your gay lover when you are 18, but you can't have a Zima at the wedding reception?

Posted by patticakepatti on July 16, 2008 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The drinking age was 18 years ago, but they changed it due to the amount of alcohol related deaths, which have gone down.

Instead of changing the drinking age back to 18, I think they should change the law and not send children to war until they are 21.

If that doesn't round up enough soldiers then perhaps we should start sending over our early release parlolees!

Posted by mamaof2 on July 16, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

lol. oxnard40 i havent had a zima in a long time.

i think they should change the legal adult age, at least to 20 because then u wont be a "teen" anymore. i personally drank more b4 i was 21 then after. its definetly not hard for minors to get alcohol, we use to use our friends ID's who looked nothing like us and get away with it, even in the clubs.

hotwilder: i disagree with 25 being the age limit, then i couldnt legally buy alcohol anymore! 2 years of legally drinking and then them taking it away for another 2, lol can u imagine.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I hear ya mamaof2, it would stink, I hardly buy any alcohol now...it's too dang expensive.

It's easy for me to say raise it to 25, 30, 40...heck, I don't care...I drink so rarely I wouldn't miss it.

Posted by BeaHappi on July 16, 2008 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Back in the day (70's) we used to ask people to buy it for us; no one ever said no. Scary isn't it?

Maybe there could be a compromise on the drinking age...if you're active military you can buy when you're 18...if not, you wait until you're 21. Think of all of the people who'd sign up for the service!

Plus, the military is very tough on their personnel who break the law. And it doesn't seem right that we ask these kids to go and fight in a war but not be able to have a beer after a horrible and hot day.

Posted by shuldbworkin805 on July 16, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I worked in a restraunt for several years.We were trained in the event that a decoy came in.The business could lose their liqour license and the employee personal would face a fine $1500 as well as termination. I totally agree with having these sting operations.I feel it is the employers duty to properly train their employees.The sting does consist of a plain clothes officer as well as a minor.What we learned in the training is if you ask if someone is a decoy they cannot lie to you.I also feel strongly against the law that allows someone over the age of 18 to sell alcohol in business that also sell food.I feel like this is a huge responsibilty which should not be taken lightly.I have personally have strong feelings regarding alcohol in general and think that people often do not drink responsibly.I also am not to old to remember how easy it was when I was a minor to obtain alcohol.I do not think changing the legal age will do anything excepet entice even younger kids to drink.A lot of times I think it is the excitement of being able to buy booze under age that gets people.At least I now that WAS the case for me.

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BeaHappi, that is a great idea! 18= military= ability to drink.

Posted by shuldbworkin805 on July 16, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ya know...I just don't get it...How many of you have seriously seen something positive come out of boozin anyways? Alcohol is a liar and a thief. I really do not get what is so great about it.

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

shuldbworkin, I don't think there is anything great about it. I just think we should be fair about being in the military and drinking if you so choose to do. How are we going to tell a kid he can go out to the middle east and die for his country, but he cannot have a drink?

Posted by shuldbworkin805 on July 16, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How are you gonna tell a kid you save lives now go ahead and ruin yours? Alcohol is something that a lot of people use to cope.ESPECIALLY in the millitary.They see some pretty horrible stuff.What other type of coping do a lot of them have.I guess I am really bias.On the flip side,there are a lot of people out there that can drink responsibly I think they are out numbered unfortunatly.

Posted by sunnbear on July 16, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I like to think that I'm very responsible with my drinking. For instance, I would never let my children see me embibing. That's why I only drink at work!

Posted by shuldbworkin805 on July 16, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

sunnbear..That's pretty funny.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

imbibing

Posted by FedUp on July 16, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this is not entrapment. these businesses were breaking the law, plain and simple. I have been grocery shopping with a few people, and the clerk would always ask who was paying for everything. they would then card that person. it is pretty simple. Costco of all places should know better.

we raised our drinking age because we are not responsible enough to teach our kids about alcohol. Why do you think the Euros can drink at 18 legally, but most of them drink with their families at an even earlier age. It is because they are raised to understand alcohol. This is also why they have a much lower alcoholism rate than the US. We are just not all that responsible.

I do agree that if you can die for your country, your friends should be able to celebrate your life with a beer.

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunnbear, I bet you have a water bottle filled with vodka sitting right next to you =)

Posted by axel718 on July 16, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

weissfam5...."Why would a clerk assume the underage person is buying the alcohol" BECAUSE THEY ARE!!!! it is not entrapment and it sounds like you have been caught selling to minors. Even so the decoy is buying the alcohol and all the store clerk has to do is check the ID of the decoy and deny the sale if the person is under age.

BTW you can get into the military at age 17.

Have law enforcement work the registers....lol...imagine the first time a teenager tries to rob the 7/11 and gets shot by the undercover cop working the register, then what will you say? Its not the teenagers fault?

How about the parents of these underage beer drinkers do their job so the cops wouldn't have to do it for them!

Posted by stikkelman on July 16, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Alcohol at a young age is nothing but trouble. My son was a passenger in a vehicle driven by a cousin who was 21. My son was 17, and with a 47 year old cousin in the back seat. They all died on Thanksgiving 2005. Alcohol and speeding was involved. Now, tell me that it's a good idea, whether fighting for our country or not, to lower the drinking age? I think not, my child will never get married, have a child, never got to graduate high school. Think of this! Sorry, just putting in my 2 cents.

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

stikkelman, I understand what you are saying, even if we were to lower the drinking age, the same rules would apply, no drinking and driving.

Axel718, how about, as long as you are in the military you are allowed to drink, if you so desire?

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

stikkelman, that is a parents worst nightmare, I am so sorry for your loss! I have to admit, I am extremly against drinking and driving due to the accident on the grade about 20 years ago. I was deeply affected by that accident and later became friends with the survivor and seeing how his life was shattered made me vow to never ever drink and drive and to this day I haven't and I have raised my kids the same.

Posted by stikkelman on July 16, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

I will admit before my loss, I would have a beer or 2 and drive, and never think anything, and when I was young, well never mind. I would never again drink a DROP and drive a car ever again. We lost 3 people in our family in 1 minute and our family is ripped apart forever. I'm glad they are trying to stop underage alcohol drinking/selling....I'm all for it.

Hotwildflower, it's sad and disturbing, isn't it?

Posted by BeaHappi on July 16, 2008 at 12:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

stikkelman...I too am very sorry for your loss. But this issue with your accident seems to be more about drinking and driving. The driver was 21, correct? So of legal drinking age.

There are far too many horror stories related to drinking and driving, drinking and doing drugs, drinking and drinking even more...resulting in alcohol poisoning.

No matter what the legal drinking age, I think that the best that we can do as parents is to talk to our kids about the realities and things that have happened and could happen to them. And then make it clear that they will never get in trouble for calling for a ride if they are intoxicated or are with friends who are.

I'd rather have a drunk kid call me to be picked up than have them not call, for fear of getting in trouble, and have them wind up in the morgue.

Posted by jkaspr on July 16, 2008 at 12:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

You can drink at 18 in the military...you are subject to local laws whever you ar stationed....Even in Hawaii when I was in the Navy...show that military ID...Servers would serve you with out blinking....doormen let us in ahead of everyone else in line becuase they knew what we faced as a member of the military...
In guam...if you are tall enough to reach the bar you got served...same in many countries...There were bars on base that we could drink at even in the states

Posted by juniormafia_ny on July 16, 2008 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jkaspr, I believe you... but what you are talking about is more 'under the table'. What I am suggesting is that we make that the 'rule'.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 12:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have a son just getting ready to being high school and I talk to him constantly about the dangers and of course I get the good ol' "I know, mom!" but our lines of communication are wide open. I recently talked to him about starting up a SADD chapter at school and he wasn't opposed.

I think that one tragedy that affected my way of thinking may go on to affect other lives in a positive way...I can only hope some good may come out of it.

BTW, That drunk driver was well over 21!

Posted by jkaspr on July 16, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

juniormafia_ny....Yes...some of the drinking in the states is "under the table"....now it has been some years since my military service...but I drank legally at 18 on base at several bars available to the enlisted personnel in San Diego...TJ was close enough to go drink...I also drank in Florida and Conneticut...on military installations...

Posted by mac_tire_224 on July 16, 2008 at 2:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

18= military= ability to drink.

I agree.

Posted by BeaHappi on July 16, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

hotwildflower...you seem to be one very cool mom. My kids aren't teens yet but when they are, I may call on you for some words of wisdom!

Posted by weissfam5 on July 16, 2008 at 3:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

axel718 I have never been caught selling alochol to minors. I am a law abiding citizen...except for a few traffic violations daily:)

I believe it is entrapment as they are asking an underage person to purchase alochol which is against the law. I don't believe that intentionally broken to catch a non-violent law breaker.

I was working at a 7-11 when a sting took place. My co-worker sold the alochol to the minor based on the three older gentlemen with the minor. His logic (flawed) is that if this was a minor, why would the older gentlemen send him up to purchase the beer.

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That should have been your co-workers 1st clue that something was up...

Thanks Bea! :) I don't think you'd need my advice, you are so logical, you won't have any problems.

Posted by FedUp on July 16, 2008 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I believe it is entrapment as they are asking an underage person to purchase alochol which is against the law. I don't believe that intentionally broken to catch a non-violent law breaker."

would it be considered entrapment, if the police used an underage person to ask older people outside of the store to buy them alcohol? I say no. it is just as against the law to buy alcohol for underage people as it is for underage people to buy from a store. illegal is illegal. just ask for id every time. simple logic.

Posted by weissfam5 on July 16, 2008 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If you watch cop shows at all, you have seen the hooker stings the cops run. They cannot offer an illegal service as that is entrapment. They must wait for the "john" to make the offer than bust them.

Should the police catch drug abuser by offering to sell drugs outside of a 7-11? While I think this would be a great idea, I am sure some attorneys or judges would not like this idea. I use the same analogy with the alochol stings. Tell me what the difference is?

Posted by hotwildflower on July 16, 2008 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No, your analogy is reverse...offering to sell drugs is illegal just like selling alcohol to a minor is illegal.

The cops aren't the clerks selling the alcohol. They are preforming a public service by finding the locations where children are getting this stuff. Personally, I say THANK YOU to them for this "sting" and bringing attention to it.

As stated above, simply ask EVERYTIME for ID and this won't be a problem!

Posted by FedUp on July 16, 2008 at 3:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry, I dont watch COPS. and if you are concerned about soliciting an undercover officer, just ask them if they are a cop. they have to tell you the truth.

alcohol sales to adults are legal, selling narcotics to anyone is not. apples and oranges.

Posted by FedUp on July 16, 2008 at 3:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sorry, sort of off topic here. I was buying a red bull from the grocery store today, and the person in front of me was trying to buy a six pack of budweiser. (I dont know why. everyone knows Coors light rules!) but anyways, the clerk, who looked to be about 15 years old asked a co-worker if he could buy the beer. his id said he was born in 1989. I laughed a bit, and she just stared at me. she told the guy no eventually. he was from europe, and was all irritated that he could not get a beer here. as clueless as this clerk was, at least she asked...

Posted by whatever on July 16, 2008 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Unreal that there is that many selling to kids. They should be held responsible when they sell to kids and then they kids go and do what ever they do that gets them or anyone else hurt.

Posted by senorbriar on July 16, 2008 at 8:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I used to buy beer as an underage minor all the time. As a teenager, age 15&16, I was paticularly hairy (still am), and used to walk into liquor stores and markets with my shirt off, and never got hassled. They all figured that Chewbacca must be at least 21..pretyy funny in retrospect...of course this was years ago...

Posted by live_for_purpose on July 17, 2008 at 12:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)

They should do more of these stings....kids get way too much booze.

And they should also try and catch kids trying to buy it as well.

And since you can now vote at 18, you can get the military age and the drinking age the same if you vote wisely! (and enough other people agree with you--majority still wins!)

Posted by weissfam5 on July 17, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

hotwildflower..it is also illegal to try to purchase alochol if you are underage. The clerks at these stores aren't "pushing" alochol sales.

I agree that id's should be checked for anyone who looks under 30. I agree that people under 21 should not be getting alochol. I sure got a lot of it from 14-21.

Posted by dom_kenpo on July 17, 2008 at 5:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I need a beer

Posted by hamskid on July 18, 2008 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Damned if they do and damned if they don't. People critcize the police if they have a sting and raise hell if they don't do something about selling alcohol to minors.
The decoys aren't 20 years old and look older. They are younger kids. They don't offer fake id's if ask, they just don't buy. It is not entrapment.
I think we should thank law enforcement for enforcing the laws. If we want to change the laws, we can.

Posted by bsnsmn on July 22, 2008 at 8:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If the older officer makes it apparent he is with the younger decoy then it's entrapment, doesn't sound like a sting at all if that is the case. Why can't the older officer go in after or before and stay away from the decoy? Sounds like they are exploiting the human nature of assumption (although not an excuse for breaking the law). I would assume, as well, if they are together then it should be o.k. to make the sell. Come on law enforcement, you know that it's C.Y.A. in today's world so why not do it in a way that cannot be questioned? As for being able to fight for your country and buy a beer, I joined at 19 and was immediately sent to Germany where you can order a beer with your Big Mac.I drank so much on a 4 day weekend I woke up in the hospital 6 days later with severe alcohol poisoning. No more Heinekin, Southern Comfort or Jaegermeister for me! In fact I didn't drink a drop for 12 years after all that and still to this day only moderately. Would this have happened if I was 21? I believe so. The age limit was set for many reasons and should stay. Responsible drinking comes from responsible parenting and everyone should be involved, even the clerk behind the counter.

Posted by axel718 on July 22, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

weissfam 5......I dont know if you have ever heard of undercover police officers but they make undercover narcotic buys all the time. While it may not be right in front of 7/11, they do make them. The police do arrest the user and the dealer. Again buying narcotics and selling alcohol to minors is completely different, as stated before.....apples and oranges........

BTW the drinking age in the military was 18 years of age for the longest time. However the military (depending on what branch of service) has started to enforce several of the individual states drinking age. So depending on what state you are stationed in you may be able to drink alcohol at 18 or you may have to wait til you 21. Also if you are convicted of a crime while in the military you first deal with the local authorites and their punishment and then you are again punished for the same crime by the military.