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Camarillo to study costs of prison hospital
The economic review to cost city $50,000
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More from CamarilloThe Camarillo City Council has authorized hiring a consultant to find out how much a prison hospital could cost the city and surrounding area.
At its meeting Wednesday night, the council voted 5-0 to spend up to $50,000 for the Natelson Dale Group to conduct a review of economic issues associated with a proposed prison hospital just beyond the city limits. The council opposes the project and previously authorized hiring a different consultant to review environmental concerns.
Federal receiver J. Clark Kelso has selected the current site of the Ventura County Youth Facility on Wright Road as one of seven spots in California for prison hospitals. The facility is expected to house 1,500 physically and mentally ill inmates.
The prison hospitals are Kelso's strategy for executing a federal court order that the prison healthcare system be brought into compliance with constitutional standards. U.S. District Judge Thelton Henderson, who oversees Kelso's activities, found prison healthcare was so bad that it constituted cruel and unusual punishment.
Construction at the Ventura County facility could begin next year.
The Natelson Dale Group would investigate effects involving the local labor market, housing market, urban decay, property values, land availability and other issues, according to the staff report by City Attorney Brian Pierik.
Henderson's order creating the receivership specified that all costs to implement the receiver's plan would be paid by the state, and Kelso has requested $8 billion from the state to build the seven hospitals. However, City Manager Jerry Bankston told the council that he thought local governments would ultimately have to pay more for social services and law enforcement.
"The impact is going to be on local governments, and there's not going to be a state reimbursement," he said.
Richard Stapler, a spokesman for the receiver, said inmates would not be released directly from the facility; rather, they would be released to the communities they lived in at the time of arrest. He said it was too early to tell how the cost of infrastructure improvements necessitated by the facility would be addressed.
The Natelson Dale Group has also done economic impact work for the cities of Oxnard, Simi Valley, Thousand Oaks and Ventura, Bankston said. The firm is based in Yorba Linda and specializes in economic and financial consulting.
The city previously approved spending up to $50,000 to hire Rincon Consultants Inc. to conduct an environmental review.
Representatives of the receiver will come to Ventura County in the coming weeks to discuss the proposed hospital, Stapler said.
An exact date has not been determined.
Posted by keepin_it_real on August 29, 2008 at 6:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ahhh...The ole cruel and unusual punishment again. I wonder if the criminals thought anything about that when they were committing their crimes.
I wonder if some of us law abiding citizens can find out when the receiver will be in town to discuss this proposed hospital so we can protest it.
Let these guys rot in prison, that is what they deserve. Geez, you guys can't put them in the middle of the desert can't you? No, you have to put them right in our back yards where our law abiding citizens could be at risk not to mention our children. Get a grip Kelso!!!
Posted by jamaro099 on August 29, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"The city previously approved spending up to $50,000 to hire Rincon Consultants Inc. to conduct an environmental review."
What happened? Was Rincon actually wanting to do their job and not just report what Camarillo wants to hear?
Posted by frank14 on August 29, 2008 at 7:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes building a hospital 5 times the size of St Johns should have no environmental impacts on a agricultural preserve.
Posted by Camman1 on August 29, 2008 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey jamaro099, they both start with E but an Environmental review is quite different than an ECONOMIC review.
Posted by iseepeeple on August 29, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Boy, seems the City of Camarillo has a lot of money to blow and throw..so what's the problem?
If they would stop and think. Just look at all the revenue this prison will bring into your city. All those horrible creatures (you know, the families of the inmates) will come to town to visit their loved ones in their beat up pickup trucks and they might just get the urge to drop on by one of the hundreds of outlet stores ya'll have there in that big shiny new outlet shopping mall and drop a few hundred bucks while they are in town. Wouldn't that be a positive? I mean...never mind all the jobs this prison will create.
Hey! I know...how about hanging a big flashy sign in front of the prison that says something like...OUTLET #3? Would ya be happy then?
Sheesh people...get a grip.
Posted by marketrealist on August 29, 2008 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You have to address the root cause of this issue. We currently have 1 in 100 adults in prison in the USA. (This is about 10 times the rate of Europe). This is partly due to laws like Three-Strikes and mandatory minimum sentences. We also criminalize drug addiction rather than treat it as a medical condition.
To support that infrastructure, we need the criminal-justice-penal system of which this hospital is a part. There is a huge expense to the taxpayers to support this infrastructure. As we bankrupt ourselves with the criminal-justice-penal system and the military-industrial complex, the country is racking up debt quickly. We can't fund education, infrastructure, etc.
I wish we could scale back these institutions dramatically. We will need to face the fact we cannot pay to keep prisoners in jail at a cost of $50,000 per person each year. But if we don't face this reality, Ventura County citizens will continue to pay to fund these systems and the money and jobs will go elsewhere.
I won't get started on the billions poured down the military bottomless pit. (We spend more on the military than the rest of the world combined - let that fact sink in). But we spend on these broken systems like drunken sailors and think we can then expect clean neat pretty houses on the hill. Dream on. Don't build more prisons. Build schools and hospitals for our citizens. We cannot do both. There is no free lunch.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 29, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Iseepeople:
How 'bout you let the friends of a meth-induced schizophrenic convicted triple-murdering gangmember from 18th street stay at YOUR house while they visit "Lil Puppet" at the new prison hospital?
Maybe you can give them the $100 they're going to spend at the Camarillo Outlets?
The prisoners proposed to be housed there have mental issues (as well as other health ailments) and will be level 3-5 high risk prisoners. (rapists, murders and such)
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 29, 2008 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why not put this facility further from communities? Has anyone asked that? If they pay their nurses and doctors more (supposedly), they can afford the extra gas to drive to work out away from communities.
Posted by iseepeeple on August 29, 2008 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
babyzdaddy_01 you say "The prisoners proposed to be housed there have mental issues (as well as other health ailments)..."
Ok so lets throw them out in the desert and watch them fry cause they are mentally ill and fighting other health issues? Yeah...ok. That seems like the logical thing to do. Afterall, they are mentally ill and not even considered human anymore...right? Off with their mentally ill heads...correct? They are going to die anyways, let them die suffering.
That is a pathetic way of thinking babyz...and if you can't see that then perhaps you need some serious counseling yourself.
"Lil Puppet" indeed..
Posted by NavalAviator on August 29, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
marketrealist - very well written; and on point!
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 29, 2008 at 1:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Iseepeeple: That's the only part you read isn't? And you call my thinking pathetic. Trying reading for comprehension.
It's not solely a mental institution. It's not just people with depression, bi-polar disorder and such, it's mental health patients and patients with other health ailments that ALSO killed a family of 4 for NO reason other than to watch them die.
What you're comparing is apples to oranges. They are convicted criminals. I never said (and you can read it several times) that they should be out there to fry....the counter to my suggestion would have been....how much energy will be consumed to A/C the facility in a high temperature area of the state...that, I don't know.
You...I repeat: YOU wrote that they are not considered human and we should cut their mentally ill heads off. I said nothing of the sort.
...and I'M the one who needs counseling? You're too funny.
Posted by 805m0mma on August 29, 2008 at 1:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Read these letters to the editor. This is craziness for them even thinking to build this place for criminals!
Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on August 29, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The reason we have so many in prisons is not because of 3-strikes laws, etc. If the prisoners hadn't committed felonies, they wouldn't be in prison in the first place. No excuse. It is my take that the reason we have so many in prison is deteriorating morale values in our country and lack of enforcement of immigration law. If existing immigration law were strictly enforced the number would go down by 25% immediately.
Posted by marketrealist on August 29, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Equitable_Enforcer,
A chain reaction or run-away reaction is one in which number increase geometrically not arithmerically. 2, 4, 16, 256, 65536. This is how the influence of jail works each person sent to jail influences many more people themselves.
Let me suggest a few things - right now, we have one 1 in 100 adults in jail. Add to that, the number that has been passed through jail at some point or the other and you that number increases. For each of these people, there are family members - kids, wifes, and friends that they influence. What if your dad or uncle is in jail. What is that influence going to be? Hence, putting one person in jail spreads the jail culture and criminal culture throughout society. People come out of jail as more hardened criminals not sweet and gentle. The prison culture is corroding our entire society. Ask the next low paid male work who you see if they have had time in jail. Chances are high that it is yes. Look at music and fashion. Kids now prefer to dress like ex-cons and its cool. Guess what? We all loose. I a think your short sighted thinking that we create a better society is completely backwards. We only create a worse enviroment for everyone. Soon, there will be no escape from the prison society if we keeep going at this rate.
Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 29, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
equitable enforcer....how oh how could you decrease the prison population by 25% instantly if the current prison population consists of only 11% being immigration holds?
Please...explain how you can get 25% out of 11%?
Posted by ironwoman on August 29, 2008 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good for the City of Camarillo to seek the truth before Kelso's environmental team undermines and lies to get the prison built.
Fact: The Stockton facility was proposed to have 1500 inmates...it's now 1700 inmates. The staffing pattern was originally around 1200 employees...it's now 3030 employees.
Fact: The prison is not a hospital. Kelso visions it as a "skilled nursing facility"...no medical procedures will be done there and no surgeries will be done there. All inmates will be transported to local hosptitals and LA hospitals for their procedures.
Fact: The cost of this prison including the rest is around 8 Billion. It will cost 640 Million a year for the next 25 years to pay it back.
Fact: Each inmate's care will cost the State around 600,000.00 per year.
Fact: The proposed inmate population will range from young to old....infirmed inmates and the other half with mental illness. However, all will be criminals from all levels of security.
Fact: THIS IS not a MENTAL Hospital. It is a prison.
Fact: On August 25, 2008 there was an escape from RJ Donavan State Prison in Otay Mesa in San Diego County.
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 29, 2008 at 11:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Here it is.....
I sent the Ventura County Star and the ACORN a nice little article about fiscal responsibility and oversight when it comes to the Receiver.
However, it just did not make the paper. I guess those that seek the truth will never get.
Read the Inspector's General Report.
Google the Inspectors General Report on the California State Prison Receivership.
Let me know what you think. I guess I am to right wing to tell the truth, however to the right it is,the Inspector's General's Report is pretty nasty. If what was reported in the report is true and it was me, I would be in the Slammer for you know Emb_____ment or misappr______ of State Funds.
Then do a Google search on Clark Kelso and Thelton Henderson. A interesting Cat Civil Rights Judge who worked with Martin Luther King.
Then when you get done Google Coalinga State Hospital and look at the size of a 1500 bed facility, the largest Prison Hospital in the Country.
Once again people you need to start doing your homework, because if you don't you are going to get slammed by the Receiver. Theres more to it than EIR issues and sewer plants
The Silky one...............
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 29, 2008 at 11:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
P/S
If Camarillo thought the Gin Blossoms were bad just wait, and watch them freak when they have to deal with Charles, Eric & Lyle and Scott P some of California's finest, who are in need of the best medical psycho treatment at the new Camarillo Medical Treatment Facility their new home......
The Silky one.....
Posted by one2vegas on August 30, 2008 at 4:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
These Medical facilities need to be built,a separate agency should run these facilities,not the state~~their prisons system is a failure,that's why it is under Federal Receivership,it took years to get to this point.When the mental hospitals where closed,those people became homeless,which is a crime now,some went to prison,some died,those in that went to prison,acted out their illnesses,& where & still are being put in the hole isolation indefinitely,because these rogue guards,with their limited education,are not trained to be nurses or doctors,but they sure know how,to dish out punishment,to the mentally ill & disabled,& the elderly frail.There is no compassion,4 those who are in comas,permanently disabled,&the sick & dying,which is costing the tax payers billions~we are contributing to this human suffering-the more laws,we vote 4,more are human beings are swirled into this prison profit matrix,not today,but tomorrow,yours may be next~~this corporation that incarcerates, strictly 4 profits,the corrupt politicians who author more new laws,in our children's names,telling us,its 4 public safely,but its to gain a miserable vote from us all,by deception~~
Posted by iseepeeple on August 30, 2008 at 8:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
one2vegas...
Finally, someone who understands. Thank you for your post. You sound like somebody who has been through it as well and can offer the voice of reasonable and realistic facts. It gets so frustrating reading post after post from folks who just don't "get it".
Again, thank you.
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 30, 2008 at 9:07 a.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way people I understand as well.
This has been a issue for over 25 years.
This is the end result when you have Govs who cut and close State Hospitals, and put those who have limited mental capacities in the general population within a prison or in the river bottom.
I have listened to this battle for 25 years and lost jobs because of it.
So why do we continue to close State Mental Hospitals when there is a serious need?
Do we really save money in the long run?
I think not.
Posted by iseepeeple on August 31, 2008 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The Silky1...
I googled at your request the Coalinga State Hospital. It is a beautiful 1500 bed state mental hospital/prison. Actually looks a lot like Oxnards newest High School. Sure didn't see barbed wire fences and gun towers as many of the opponents have mentioned. It is very state of the art. Whether you are viewing it from afar or right up close, you have no idea you are looking at a state mental/prison hospital. I emphasize the word prison. Looks more like a campus to me.
In my own opinion, it has nothing to do with looks...but everything to do with function...and after reading up on it...it does what it was designed to do. So what's the problem?
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 2:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I See,
You are right. I know our high schools look like prisons. Wonder why?
Coalinga State Hospital looks like a beautiful place from the front facade. Look at the view from the sky. It looks, exactly like it's sister prison next door Pleasant Valley, which houses 4000 plus inmates. This place looks like a concrete jungle and night both prisons light up the skyline more than all of Camarillo and Mission oaks combined. I know I spent a lot of time working at both prisons.
Yes there are fences, barbed wire, Correctional Officers for security and transport.
SVP inmates don't run free at this facility. (Sexually Violent Predators). This is not a University Campus and is a interesting place to visit, not to work at, or stay.
Did I mention the recruiting issues with the Health Care Professionals and free staff. Nobody will work at this facility, because of the housing shortages, drive distances to work, and the pay is terrible, even with differentials.
Those that work there, wish they don't. Those that are employed want to get out from this place and go elsewhere.
Yes you are right this facility is state of the art, the largest of it's kind in the country, and it did not cost a billion dollars to build. It is not a campus, and it serves a purpose, and it's not camp snoopy or my cup of tea. Is it yours?
This is not rocket science. Do we really need this new prison, placed in this county and why?
The Silky one...........
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Heres one they forgot to tell you....
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/...
17_10_512_27_08.txt
Read this one and tell me what you think?
The Silky one..............
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/...
The Silky one...............
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
For all of those who seek the truth there is a lot more out there, this is one of many.
Now do you understand the big picture?
Either way it's more than EIR and sewer issues.
What do you think, 16 billion dollars in the hole,
why?
The Silky one..................
Posted by iseepeeple on August 31, 2008 at 4:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry Silky..tried the link but couldn't get it to come up..it there too much in it to copy and paste it here?
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The second link I posted works fine.
The Silky one.....
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The second link I posted works fine.
The Silky one.....
P/S Sorry my bad.....
Posted by iseepeeple on August 31, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh yes...I had read this about Sillen which is why the SOB isn't in there anymore. Typical govermental waste at the cost of the taxpayers.
He was replaced by Kelso who very quickly began to make cuts and get things back in order as he was required to do and he wasted no time.
Kelso is a good man whom I believe will get the job done. He is committed, responsible and will take no BS such as the governor is dishing out right now. There were promises made and Kelso is merely trying to make everyone stand by their word.
These prison/mental facilities are very much needed...and yes our county needs one as it is the only county in Southern Calif that doesn't have one. Google "California prison location maps" http://www.centerforce.org/prisonMap/
to see for yourself. Our prison system is in a crisis situation...and the problems that have been swept under the carpet for so long now has finally trickled down to our pocketbooks. Had somebody been paying attention back in the 70's and 80's before all of the mental hospital closures began releasing patients to the streets...and ultimately creating the problems we are facing today...perhaps things would have been different.
The domino effect has finally reached it's end and now something has got to be done. The new prison needs to be built in a community that has housing, and qualified workers to help fill the employment needs that will be available once it is built.. in order to be a total success.
As you well know, this was the downfall of the Coalinga facility. A beautiful facility that set nearly empty of 2 years as it was placed out in the middle of nowhere(as most people here believe it should be)...but in a place where nursing and professional help was nearly nil...yes, that was poor planning.
Camarillo has been chosen because there is potential for having an abundance of professionals available, a nursing university just over the hill..plenty of housing nearby for employees to live...so you see it is exactly the place that should be considered.
Posted by THESILKY1 on August 31, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Like Mr. Evans said he can't get Professors at the University because the cost of living in Ventura County is so high. So the University built houses on site for recruiting staff.
Isee, we do have some of the same points of view, but we do not share the same outlook.
I agree with what you say, yes there is a need for what needs to done, however I want some fiscal oversight and checks and balances.
I do not want this facility in Ventura County.
The Silky one.............
Posted by iseepeeple on August 31, 2008 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you Silky...and so we can just respectively agree to disagree as we both wait and see what the outcome will be. I have a feeling this is going to take awhile with all the red tape and ying yangin'. :)
Posted by Angelito on September 1, 2008 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We need this hospital and now!!! Look at the wages other hospitals are giving their medical staff: they are 20%what the state pays. Some places pay up tp 50% more in the private practice. Look at Saint Jonh's possible strike that may occur within weeks: all due to refusal of a measly 3% wage increase.
The camarillo facility (if build) will occupy the smae place as the youth correctionla facility. The hospital will be similar in size to other local hospitals, because they do not have to follow the standard of care as public hospitals, especially the one room per patient, one restroom per room rule from the state. Therefore they can have a room with 25-50 beds with two guards and save money and space. They will not have surgical facilities, or out patient clinics, or specialized centers, or other many departments that public hospitals are required to have. this results in a huge decrease of size. The lighting that will be used is similar to the current lighting provided by the current correctional facility.
By the way: did you know that the number of wards in the coorectional facility has dropped to alarming levels, yet Brooks can't layoff anybody from the staff? To me that's a waste of money, and a possible closure of the youth facility in the near future.
This facility will be no closer to schools or homes than the current correctional facility. It will not pose any greater danger to the comunity either, since it will include more safeguards to provide safety to everyone in the community.
So why oppose an employer that will pay 20% than local employers? why oppose a facility that will take care of the ill people? After all, we are all humans regardless of the choices we make in life. Prisons are the last place to rehabilitate those who have made mistakes,a nd they also deserve a place to be treated.
In my opininion, this facility will provide more benefits, thant they purported nuisances to some neighbors.
Posted by nemoscott on September 1, 2008 at 9:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm neither for or against the hospital as Camarillo has already passed the tipping point with regard to where it's headed, which is clearly city/Ghetto. My comment is simply this...I don't remember anyone raising He11 about protecting the farmland when Sterling Hills and Spanish Hills were being developed. Someday someone will the explain the "not in my backyard" ignorance.
Posted by THESILKY1 on September 1, 2008 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way $6.55 a hour is nothing really to talk about.
Do you make $6.55 a hour and can you live in the community, making that wage?
So does the State of California really pay an attractive wage in comparison to the private sector?
Get a grip Angle what do you know about the lighting in a Correctional Facility.
You are right the population has dropped why?
Maybe more kids are being tried as adults and end up in the real deal Prison, costing us $150,000 a year which increases the problem of overcrowding within Califronia Prisons. (THE REAL PROBLEM).
The silky one..........
P/S Thanks Ventura county Star for posting the real deal (GOOD JOB)!
Posted by sheltonclan on September 5, 2008 at 1:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hmm...Camarillians once complained about a beautiful, top-notch mental hospital located miles from the city - the Camarillo State Hopsital, which closed - what?- 10 or 12 years ago. It was working in conjunction with UCLA to SOLVE these problems. It presented so very few issues, and lots of jobs, to the city.
This is NOT the same - and I have heard people comparing the two. This is for the mentally ill criminal. Suddenly the schools within a few miles, the homes within a swift run up the hill, all seem much more vulnerable.
This would be a disaster, not just for Camarillo, but for all of Ventura County. With our present healthcare issues - where are all those workers going to come from? From the private sector? Lured by state wages, pension plans, and job security?
A lose-lose situation presents itself to us here, friends. Is there a need for such a facility? Yes. Is this the best - or even an acceptable - place for it? No.
Posted by THESILKY1 on September 5, 2008 at 11:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I complained,
I Lost my job and it took me 13 years to get back home.
And now I loose another job, for mismanagement of the states responsibilities, and a non-fiscal pseudo intelect Receiver.
You are right there is no comparison. If you only new the clients that were at the State Hospital.
Gee what type of clients were at Camarillo State Hospital?
Lets see? Killers,Molesters,Drunks,PCP Victims, Coke Heads,Axe Murders,the best of the best, at least you know what was!
The Health Care workers will come the miserable Central Valley like Coalinga, Avenal, Freakmo, Chowchilla seeking the good life in Southern California (Till they find out what it cost to live here).
You are right a looser looser situation for all in the County.
The Silky one.......
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