Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 5:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't believe for a minute that this isn't because of the King incident. They are doing damage control plane and simple. From what I have heard about Epstein, she should be on trial for contributing to the delinquincy! Of course if we paid teachers a better salary we would get a better class of people willing to teach. I have twoo sisters who teach for the love of teaching and they are under paid and overworked!

Posted by MRSMYTH on August 26, 2008 at 6:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I was a school teacher.I realized early on the job was not going to give the income level I was looking for.
I quit teaching and got a real job in private industry.Making way more money and a lot more satisfaction.
If teachers are not making the money they want,they need to quit complaining and get a real job.

Posted by BigJake on August 26, 2008 at 7:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Little wonder that these shoes dropped. I cannot wait to read Ms. Epstein's testimony under oath. Her support of King's conduct, exacerbated this situation and led to this shooting.

The district can't say that the King shooting was the reason for the changes, because it would be an admission of guilt and Mr. Pell would love such an admission.

Posted by Hueneme1961 on August 26, 2008 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms. Epstein's

I know I'm very unhappy Ms. Epstein's is at Sunkist now. HSD IS THE WORSE

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 7:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MRSMYTH, are you saying that teaching isn't a real job? Who taught you? Are you self taught? If not for teachers we would be living in a world of morons. Morons shouldn't teach, so maybe it's a good thing you quit! Lets pay teacher more and maybe the standard will raise!

Posted by mac_tire_224 on August 26, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with you CatInAHat. I look forward to Ms Epstein's testimony. She is the only one who we haven't heard from yet everyone jumps to conclusions on how she handled Larry. If she were straight, no one would know her name. I find it very hard to believe that she was the only person at the school who dealt with Larry. I still have not read anything that constitutes a violation of dress code. If someone has, please direct me there. In addition, what I understand of dress codes, they cannot be enforced. A parent can simply go into the office and sign a waiver. Who knows? I did read one comment, way back that said, "Nothing says you messed up, like a promotion". I loved that.

Posted by slkrchck on August 26, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

this goes on annually. it's usually teachers that move but quite often admin as well. there are several principal changes, v.p. changes and numerous d.o. changes each year. why is no one commenting on the nursing change? you folks don't really know what you're talking about. what was your perception about the changes last year or the big change seven years ago?

most of these changes had happened before the green incident. why is palazuelos actually leaving the district? why did fraisse leave?
staff changes. period. i think they wouldn't change their policy just to appease the unknowing community.

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Woo is legal counsel for the district, of course she is not going to cast any blame on her CLIENT! Whats the difference between a bottom dwelling slime eater and a lawyer? Ones a fish!

Posted by MRSMYTH on August 26, 2008 at 7:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

handyhood-I was a teacher. The comment who taught me is not the issue.
Your comment that teachers are over worked and under paid is the issue.That is your take on the issue.
My take on the issue is there is no future in teaching.Most of the teachers I worked with were good hard working people.Some were just looking for a free ride.The pay is low and the hours long.A real job is a job where their is competition and expectations of rising up and working to a persons potential.
I was working with a teacher that held a masters degree in education,still teching the 5 th grade.But the masters degree got her $10,000 more a year in pay and still doing the same job.
Where is the logic?Did more money improve her job performance,I did not see any.
Anyway my income now is twice what it would be as a teacher. That is what I mean by a real job.

Posted by elephantpower on August 26, 2008 at 7:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Teachers at EO Green get an average salary of $60,422 per the info on the legal report, the School Accountability Report Card.
http://www.huensd.k12.ca.us/sarc06-07...

That's a lot. Remember, they are off for the summer, at least 2 weeks at Christmas, and tons of holidays and "sick time". So, that's more like $75K annual at a private company.

That being said, I wouldn't teach there. A good friend was teaching 5th grade in Oxnard, just a couple of miles away. She didn't go back. All 32 kids in her class had social workers. What a huge amount of tax payer money is going to try to rescue these kids. Where are the parents? Teachers cannot fix all the social problems in Oxnard. New teachers get out fast. That's the reason the salary average seems to high. The veteran teachers know how to put up with the emotional stress.

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

smyth. Income doth not a job make! My sister has a masters in education and she teaches 5th graders! She loves teaching and is an excellent teacher. She is overworked and underpaid but still teaches even though she could cop out and get a "real job"! Farm workers don't make a lot of money but without them we would starve! Do they have "real jobs". It isn't always about income that makes a job. Some people work for the love of the occupation. I personally have a degree in electronics which could net me over 6 figures a year, but I love fixing things and thus I am but a lowly handyman. I don't make a lot of money so I guess that I don't have a "real job" either. Remember that when something goes wrong with your home and it need's to be repaired. Remember that when you get the bill and complain about the cost!

Posted by alovebug06 on August 26, 2008 at 8:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This has everything to do with Larry and Brandon. Maybe the administration couldn't handle the fact that something happened to their school so they did a little housecleaning in order to make things better for everyone.

Posted by elephantpower on August 26, 2008 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Remember, Larry King died just weeks after Sen Sheila Kuehl got her LGBT law passsed, SB 777. Now it is required for all California Public School teachers to incorporate lessons in the social contributions of Lesbians, Gays, Bisexuals, and Transgenders (LGBT) into classroom lessons starting in 1st grade. Kindergarten is optional in California, so that's why they are exempted. So, because lesbian VP Joy Epstein knew that this bill was about to become law in January of 2008, her message to the other teachers was LAY OFF Larry King.

The rest of SB 777 explains that kids can change their names, cross dress, and attend PE with opposite gender, use whatever restroom they feel comfortable with, etc. This is THE LAW. So all of you in Sheila's senate district (Santa Monica to Port Hueneme) who voted for her are now seeing the results.

There are now 5 members of the California LGBT Caucus at the Capitol. There will be 2 less in November with the departure of Senators Sheila Kuehl and Sen Carole Migden. BUT, we will have to see after the election how many freshmen senators and assemblymembers will be elected who are of the LGBT persuasion. This Gay Caucus has WAY too much power in California. Imagine, 5 LGBT people in that caucus were able to convince hundreds of legislators to vote for SB 777.

And where were the constituents in all this? Asleep. The newspapers did not publicize the passage of this bill in January. The State PTA actively campaigned FOR it. Yes, they supported it. Did you get a flyer about it? NO?? Do you still want to send in your dues this year?? Go complain to your PTA presidents. They will play dumb. Show them how you feel, and boycott the PTA. Most of America already has. Only California now has really active PTAs. Think about this: per a Wall Street Journal article, "Losing the P in PTA", 75% of the USA has gone to non-political PFAs and PTOs. There are only 6M members nationwide, but 5M are in wacky California. That's right. There are only 1M PTA members sprinkled over the other 49 states.

You have an option. I think Ventura County Schools should dump their PTAs and go independent, like Oak Park and Las Virgenes districts, and most of America. The PTA is political lobby group, registered as a 501(c)political organization. It lives to support, or oppose legislation. Yet the PTA did nothing to stop SB 1322 that passed 2 weeks ago in the California Senate. Now (unless the Governor vetoes it before Sept 30th) we can have card carrying communists teach in public schools. Thanks a lot, California PTA. And the Star didn't cover that story either.

Posted by beachgurl on August 26, 2008 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MRSMYTH...good thing you left teaching for more fruitful pastures as your spelling and grammar are atrocious.

Posted by caskier on August 26, 2008 at 8:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Elephant Power, you are right on. For the past few years I have refused to pay PTA dues everytime my daughter's school has the campaign. I feel like the only parent in town who recognizes their terrible abuse of power. I also no longer contribute to the American Cancer Society. They spend tons of money on lobbying too. Both the PTA and ACS do not publicize the amounts they spend on lobbying. If they did, a lot of people would stop contributing, just like me!

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 8:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MRSSMYTH - Let me understand, your definition of a real job is one that pays you a bundle of money? Are you serious? So anything making less than what you make is not real?
I agree that teachers are under paid (some) not all. I agree that they put up with a lot (our children) and that they have major responsibility. Possibly you became a teacher for the wrong reasons, it sounds like you were thinking of the money?, See I am very involved with my kids schools, I attend every parent meeting, and any event they have at school, I go to their field trips, and man do I praise those teachers for putting up with some kids, but you know what they tell me, "I Love my job, I love working with kids, attending High School graduations and seeing kids walking the line I taught years ago is of great satisfaction, I know I made a difference, I know I helped this child get to where he is at now and where he/she is going".
Kind of like doctors you know, you help them as much as you can, some don't make it (grades or graduation) but you know in your heart you did everything you could to help them.
Believe me teachers are not the only ones over worked and underpaid, I think most of us would complain about the same thing, I am sure more than a few of us here have found ourselves saying "I don't get paid enough to put up with this b-sh!t" about our jobs. I work, and I come home and work from home and sometimes on the weekend. But I love my job and the pay is o.k. but what I do is very important to me and satisfying. I know satisfaction doesn't pay the bills, but as long as I am making what I need, I'm good.
Over worked teachers? Possibly during the school year, but man what I would give to get summer off and all those government holidays, spring break, and Christmas vacation. Here where I work, we have to fight for the calendar to see who will get a day off. You know day after Thanksgiving shopping or X-mas.
Back to the E.O. Green teachers, I have seen teachers moved around principals, or VP's getting promoted but not so many like EO Green.
Coincidence? YEAH F'N Right.

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 8:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Summers off? Yeah, but they aren't being paid, and they are usually planning for the next school year without pay! I would love to sit around and discuss this all day, but unforunantly I have to go fix something for a person with a"real job" Back to my unreal job! I hope it is MRSMYTH so I can bill real heavy since he has so much $$$.

Posted by Scapegoat on August 26, 2008 at 8:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

elephantpower, well said! It is critical that California voters wake up and realize what is happening to California. The homo agenda is dangerous and we must get it out of public schools. Wake up Californians and work to get the homo agenda out of California schools!

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on August 26, 2008 at 8:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We have become a depraved society as evidenced by 777.

Lovestedt gets fired. The person who should have been fired gets promoted to principal.

Sick!

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

handyhood- they do get paid during the summer, I have family that works for the schools and they have the option to distribute their salary (example 50K, divided into 12 months) or if they opt out they will get 50K for 11 months) and no pay during summer break. Unless they decide to teach summer school. :O)
My relatives who work for the schools stay an extra week after school ends, and come back a week before the school year begins to prepare(part time).
I still would love all the time off they have though. :O)

Posted by eclipsewatcher on August 26, 2008 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Handyman: Why don't you get yourself a real job and quit with the lawyer bashing already? If it wasn't for the people of the world doing stupid things and getting themselves into trouble, we wouldn't need lawyers. I hope you never find yourself in need of one.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

MRSMYTH:

I'm very glad you're no longer a teacher. You're the reason teachers get a bad rap for no trying hard enough. REAL teachers are very much aware that their job is thankless and very taxing.

As for pay, everyone knows they are underpaid and in fact they're only compensated for 3/4 of the year of work. To put it in perspective, the average teacher with a masters degree can make anywhere between $65-$75K per year + more each year of service. If that's only for 3/4 of a year. $75K for 3/4 of a year of work is equivalent to $99K per year (do the math). Even THAT, is "underpaid" for all the work they do to teach each of your brats.

There are a lot of "TRUE" Teachers out there that teach for the kids, not their paycheck. Those like MRSMYTH just couldn't hack it. Like "DaughterofImmigrant" alluded, your original expectations for teaching were off.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

FYI: It's approximately 3/4 of a year, so thus the $99K and not the even $100K for you sticklers out there.

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 9:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Camdad - your back!! Lovein the "Bawhaahaa"!!

LMAO!!!

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If a close relative of yours was killed in your living room, wouldn't you want to move from your home as the memory of the incident in the home will haunt you so long as you continue to live there?

Even if each of the administrators moves to a different school, they are linked to the incident, moving them allows for them to attempt to continue their careers within the school district.

Not one of the administrators gave Brandon that gun to shoot Larry. Quit blaming everyone that DIDN'T fire that gun and attempting to "justify" the actions of the one that DID. They could have had 100 meetings with the students, Brandon did what he did because he WANTED TO, he CHOSE TO DO SO. Larry, unfortunately, chose the wrong person to trade barbs with.

If you claim that you, in the administrators position would have guessed that Brandon would bring a gun to school to shoot Larry two times in the head that day vs. beating him up, you're lying. Hindsight is 20/20, but you're claiming to be clairvoyant. That's ridiculous.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JR: (respectfully)

Ask your cousins that go/went to EO Green if they hungout with Larry often. I bet they get grossed out and say, "Noooo waaay".

There's your biased opinion of the two that you're basing your comments on. To not acknowledge that Larry was MOST LIKELY ostracized at school by the other students and thus leaving the door open for comments insinuating that he was to blame for his own death is less than I expect from you.

Also, to say that Epstein took it upon herself to make Larry her "special project" is a stretch given that we haven't heard the reasoning for her being his counselor. In HS, I hated my guidance counselor and chose to switch to another that I related better to. How do you KNOW it wasn't Larry that requested her? Just saying.

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 9:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Babyzdaddy - So we should close the school then? What about the kids that have to go back to that school and have flash backs of what happened? What about the teachers?

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If by stepping in, you mean transferring one student to Blackstock and the other to remain at EO Green, then I agree. But how many times would JR High Administrators be transferring students over arguments and "beefs"? There could have been more emphasis placed on the incident, but unless they moved one of the students out of the school, no level of involvment would have kept Brandon from saying, "F-it, I'm going to just kill him to end this now." A reasonable person would have guessed that they would eventually fight (or more like Brandon would beat up Larry), but for a shooting to occur, no one can reasonably believe THAT would happen.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

daughterofimmigrant:
Don't take this to an extreme chica. Slow your roll. Just trying to provide a possible explanation for why they would transfer them out of the school. They didn't make them disappear to hide them. The case will still continue and they will still be involved. I'm just saying that they might have requested to be moved or applied with those intentions in mind (remove themselves from that scene and continue their careers). That's all.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JR:
Yes, woulda, coulda, shoulda, but it STILL doesn't eliminate the fact that it takes a special person to say: "I'm going to kill someone" and then actually DO IT.

I couldn't/wouldn't do it, it's not innate to me. Regardless of what the administrators could have done (except if they would have transferred the students on a "hunch" that they thought Brandon would bring a gun to school and shoot Larry).

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Maybe Larry felt ostracized by some of teachers as well (again, speculation only at this point)?

So your female cousing hung out with him and STILL leads you to believe that he had (his death) coming to him for his actions? Again, I can understand a beating, but two shots to the dome JR? That's a bit much to expect as "justified" for his actions against Brandon.

Posted by whatever on August 26, 2008 at 10:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why are you bi*t*hing about CA and their laws? You people really need to wake up. You will continue getting this shoved up you because you have left liberals running it. I laugh when you complain because you are Dem's and you put them in the offices by your votes. They wouldn't be there any other way. You will not change them any other way. You may hate conservatives but this wouldn't be happening if the liberals weren't in charge. If you want to change things you have to change the power. They have you all by the b*lls and you can't see it when it is staring you in the face. More and more CA is made a laughing stock in the rest of the country. Try watching something other than the main stream media democrats and you will see and hear what it said daily about this state. What a shame that CA died a long time ago and you let it happen. What a nice state it use to be.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Again, negligent for a shooting? That's asking a lot of them. Negligent for damages caused by a beating, yes. Not a shooting. I'd say not liable to the same extent.

Actually, when you think about it, you can't have both situations: You claim that Brandon was an honors student and didn't appear to have this in him.....AND...you claim that the administrators should be held liable for the shooting because they should have anticipated the shooting to happen and thus taken steps to avoid the shooting death of Larry.

Why would they believe he was capable of this and take proactive steps to keep this was happening and thus not be negligent, if he did not fit the mold of someone they would have expected to commit such a crime?

Choose 1 JR, but you can't have both happen.

Posted by CloudyDaze on August 26, 2008 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"A large turnover of administrators at one school "happens occasionally," said Dannenberg. The changes were not related to the shooting or its aftermath, he said."

(after blowing my coffee out my nose)Are you kidding me? Do these administrators think we're THAT dumb? Maybe they need a little more ed-u-ma-kat-ing. No matter how the deck is shuffled, its still the same old jokers.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

WHATEVER: The Governator is a Republican. I voted for the Democrat, but he lost. Let's play the "Reagonomics" version of the blame game, let it trickle down from the top.

Also, why do you like to talk about things getting shoved up (somewhere) and about male's genitals?

You were talking about getting stuff "pushed down your throat" yesterday. Is there something you need to tell the world WHATEVER? Really. You don't make sense sometimes. Try slowing down and thinking before you post. Works for most people.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CloudyDaze:

Coffee out your nose? Deviated septum maybe? You should get that checked out.

Posted by CloudyDaze on August 26, 2008 at 10:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Good One!

Posted by mac_tire_224 on August 26, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Excellent points Babyzdaddy. You have given me more to ponder.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Glad you have a sense of humor Cloudy.

Posted by whatever on August 26, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

BabyzDaddy_01 smarts would tell you that Arnold is not a "true" democrat. But I guess that got past you. You reap what you sow. Try reading correctly before you respond back. It works like a charm. But please make sure you read slowly.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Whatever:
I'm pretty sure I'm more educated than you. Arnold ran as a Republican, regardless of what he turned out to be. If you read for comprehension, you'd see that I did not reap what I sowed as I did not vote for the guy running the state. Really.

You have yet to post something that either made sense (to the topic) or indicated that you are capable of a higher level of thinking, which would require that you ponder all possibilities and not simply revert to blaming everyone else for your thwarted world. You don't justify anything you post. Really. And when prompted to do so, you disappear. Really.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JR:

I see where you're coming from (and where you've been: Last Chance to change your ways HS = Frontier HS). I guess we'll see how much weight any antagonizing and to what degree the intensity of that antagonization could have led to the shooting.

It's going to be a tough decision, I just hope they don't have the likes of WHATEVER in that jury box so that at least there's thought and reason behind any decisions made.

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 10:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Babydaddy - oh no you didn't just tell me I have rolls? LOL!! No but why should they be so lucky to leave and continue their careers (and get promoted by the way) when teachers and students dont, well I am sure they could but you know what I mean? At the end of the day, the administrators didn't see the actual shooting the kids and that one teacher did, now that is traumatizing!
I would have some respect for these administrators if they would have stayed and made improvments, give some support to those that were left behind and witnessed this tragedy rather than run away and start all over.
How convinient.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Daughterofimmigrant:
I was not aware of any rolls....but thanks for having a sense of humor. Yeah, I see your point to where they get to leave the school and are not staying to improve the situation. From what I hear, it is not the best administration that could have been there, but I still don't believe they should take the brunt of the blame on this one. Brandon is first in that pecking order, if you ask me.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CAMDAD:

The Governator's Hummer wouldn't fit in the drop off sites at most public elementaries! LOL

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

My point exactly if they are not the best administration why the heck did they get promoted. Hello!!!
Yeah I can get the funnies sometimes.
I hate to disagree and I know some others will too, but I do think that our kids while at school are the administrators responsibility. They should be able to identify any red flags, I am not saying that they should have known that Brandon was going to kill Larry, but I feel that schools don't take thing serious sometimes until it's to late of course then they have their chonies all in a bundle.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Vice Principal of Middle School to Principal at an elementary school is somewhat of a horizontal move being that the middle school carries more weight, responsibility, in my opinion as the middle school is more complex and the burden carried by Vice Principals at middle schools, I'm sure is more than vice principals at elementary schools (if they even have a vice principal at the elementary). Also, sometimes the best administrators don't apply for those positions, then you're left with whoever does apply. Maybe they were the best of those who applied to be administrators at EO Green. Who knows?

Posted by SoCalBorn on August 26, 2008 at 11:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I know this is a bit off topic, but I just read all the comments and had to comment on a couple earlier posts about the “tons of holidays” and time off teachers receive, and the implication that because summers are off, the pay is good.

AS A PREFACE: The following is not meant as a complaint so others will feel sorry for teachers. I’m just trying to provide a wakeup call for those who think teaching is easy. I understand teachers willingly go into the profession and are free to leave at any time, but most go into the profession (and stay) because they are simply good people who want to make a difference – regardless of the time and stress it takes.

Teaching is not a 7-hour-a-day, 10-month-a-year job. Good teachers get to school very early, stay very late, and then take work home to grade, plan educational/interesting lessons, make tests/handouts, etc. With the budget the way it is, they spend much of their own money on resources for the classroom and for their students.

As for time off, yes, it's great on paper, but again, many weeks of their “time off” are spent preparing for the following weeks/year – this especially happens when a teacher gets a new grade-level or subject matter assignment over the summer, which they have no previous lessons for. Add this to the day-to-day stress of dealing with almost 200 kids a day (for secondary teachers), communication with parents, extra school duties, etc. and teachers are still definitely overworked and underpaid.

Okay, I'll step off my soap box now.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SoCalBorn:
Well said.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 26, 2008 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Teachers and administrators do have very tough jobs these days and I give them all the credit in the world.

However, PUH-LEEZ! Of course these changes are related to what happened. I'll go out on a limb and say that if this horrible tragedy had not occurred, the same admin would be in the school this year.

Don't you just love the legally-crafted statements?

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

SoCalBorn - true.. I agree with all you have said and I do agree teaching is not easy, I admire them for their work and stress of dealing with so many kids, honestly sometimes I can't deal with mine!
I drive by my kids schools on the weekends and see some teachers at the school and truly admire them for their dedication.
You also just described my job (or at least the long hours I put it) I have over 200 temps working for me and sometimes I wonder if they are worse than children. I also work weekends, holidays, and many times I get called on during my time off, but I love my job and would not change careers. Like I said I have teachers in the family and with all the work involved in teaching (behind the scenes)they still get more time off then I do, (not complaining just hating :O))

Posted by dom_kenpo on August 26, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

These changes are not related to the incident, and flies cause garbage, and spoons are the cause of Rosie being fat.

Granted, I is not the smartest tool in the toolbox, but they must think the publick is stoooopid!

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

daughter:

You wanna hate more? Teacher's get better medical benefits too!!! And they pay a lot less for them. Union! (Si se puede!! Si se puede!!!...oops...wrong industry)

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Did you know that teachers don't get to collect social security?

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

handyhood:
Yes. They don't contribute either. They have STRS, not perfect but much better than Social Security.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 1:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JR:
Simon que si.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 1:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Simon que si"
Translation: "but of course"

Posted by holdenon_2000 on August 26, 2008 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I will complain daily if my son gets put in some wackos classroom, or assigned to a counselor, who has much more mental problems. If they are GAY or Lesbian, they need to keep that to themselves. I would not tolerate a straight teacher expressing themselves either. The fact that everyone knows that the administration had a Gay person working, really troubles me. Keep your sexual preference to yourself! Keep your religion to yourself. Keep politics to yourself. Teachers shouldn't preach, persuade, and manipulate children to fit personal agendas. This is what happened at E.O. Green, and look at the outcome.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

holdenon:
I DOUBT Larry became Gay because of Epstein's influence. You should home school then Holden...prime candidate as you don't seem receptive to anything anyone else does.

Posted by daugtherofimmigrant on August 26, 2008 at 2:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

JM and babydaddy - I'm hating!

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on August 26, 2008 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BabyzDaddy, for sure Epstein didn't make Larry gay. As a matter of fact, Larry might not have been gay at all. His rather bizarre conduct could well have been a manisfestation of Reaactive Attachment Disorder (RAD). He was getting attention the only way he knew how. Notwithstanding the provisions of AB 777, Epstein, once she made the decision to work outside of her job description, had a duty as an administrator to rein in Larry's behavior. Nowhere in 777 does it condone disruptive behavior. Instead, perhaps to further her own agenda, Epstein enabled Larry's behavior, thus putting him in harm's way. We need to redirect the courts before our society dies as did ancient Rome and for many of the same reasons.

Posted by slkrchck on August 26, 2008 at 4:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

why do people insist this had to do with the incident? three of these changes (including ms.epsteins) was sent out in an email memo before any of this. ask any hsd employee.

and to holdenon_2000, i understand that you would like policies, religion and sexual preferences to be eliminated from campuses. will this extend to so-called christian activities? i should suppose that it would go both ways. shall we tell the homosexuals to hide themselves along with the jews and jehovah's witnesses?

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 4:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Slkrchck. Absolutely!! Jews and jehovah witnesses need to stay in the closet too!! LOL

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Equitable_Enforcer: Please reference AB 777 as I only find documents referencing sexual harassment as it applies to employer/employee relationship as well as sexual harassment in the emloyee/client relationships. I don't see how this applies to the sexual harassment client/client relationship (Larry v Brandon). Again, if you reference, it might help figure out how it is applicable in this situation.

As for putting him in harms way, a reasonable expectation is that he might have been beat up by Brandon, not killed. She shoud not be liable for such an unpredicatable event. Notice I said, "should", that's my opinion and is arguable, of course. But according to you, AB 777 should address and clarify how this is Epstein's liability.

Again, please site your reference.

Thanks.

Posted by slkrchck on August 26, 2008 at 5:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

blaming her for being a homosexual is as ridiculous as blaming her for being jewish.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 26, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

slkrchck:
Don't you know? (whispering and looking around) IT'S contagious. (end sarcasm)

Posted by slkrchck on August 26, 2008 at 5:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

evidently, according to these folks.

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 5:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey I hung out with a jew once an Oy cavult what a problem? Humor is the best medicine! PS. My lord was a Jew!

Posted by holdenon_2000 on August 26, 2008 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Babyz Daddy
Ronald McDonald didn't make the USA FAT, but he sure contributed. Just as Epstein contributed to supporting conduct that is not considered normal by a majority of people. Larrys own brother thought Kings conduct was out of line. Gays do not deserve any special rights. I will not allow my son to pester girls. I would not allow my son to sexually intimidate girls. Why should Epstein think that Kings actions were not violating other kids rights. She did not want to accept it because of her agenda. I don't care if anyone is gay, just don't violate my rights, trying to take back your rights. King needed help, not someone to encourage actions that she knew would just bring more attention and trouble to this poor troubled boy. If an obese boy child decides to wear spandex pants, thats OK, however that child knows beforehand that he will draw attention to himself. Why would administration encourage children to isolate themselves from classmates??? AGENDA!

Obviously the School system sees it clear just like the majority, otherwise had Epstein not been involved in an agenda they would not have shaken the tree.

BabyzDaddy - Your name resembles the name used for a split family member. If you are proud of being "BabyzDaddy" then you need to see what you can do to be a better parent, and or spouse.

The truth is that the Majority is not GAY. So if you want to isolate yourself from the Majority feel free to buck the majority, just don't cry when the majority is not around to help.

Posted by slkrchck on August 26, 2008 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

whoa whoa whoa......i'm obese and i look fantastic in spandex!

Posted by handyhood on August 26, 2008 at 5:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Slkrchck. Now you are getting it! Lol. I look good in spandex too. As long as I use it as an undergarment. Kind of holds back the jello!

Posted by whatever on August 26, 2008 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

BabyzDaddy_01 disappeared? Hardly, I don't sit on here like you and Mafia do all day long not working. Arnold has never been a real conservative. When he was elected those in the know knew he wasn't. That is why he got elected. All knew they could work with him because he wasn't a real republican with real conservative values. He is married to a Kennedy. His wife is well to have the same opinions as her uncle Teddy who will soon be biting the dust. You see I do have a very good knowledge of Politics and once again, you have no idea who I am, what I follow. My opinions babydaddy is as relevant as yours. I think people on here can tell who the rude ones are and those who actually have a good opinion. I am sorry you don't fit in that category. It doesn't say much for you and mafia to constantly try to belittle people. Sorry you don't think higher of yourself that you have to conduct yourself in such a childish manner. I hope you get better at conversing soon.

Posted by elephantpower on August 26, 2008 at 7:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sen Sheila Kuehl's bill is SB 777. If you are having a hard time getting info on it, then you are not getting a balanced news diet. Also, it is apparent that some of you must have failed your 8th grade civics class. Or, you are younger than middle aged, and didn't have that as a requirement. It is so stupid that California dropped that as a requirement. Now we have dumber and dumber citizens who have the power to vote, and who are absolutely ignorant about legislation and propositions, and the whole procedure. Many posters here are amateur quarterbacks, pretending to be experts in politics, but they can't even tell you who represents them, or what bills were passed last week!

BabyzDaddy, an FYI: A senator authors SB bills, and an assembly member authors AB bills. Here are some arguments AGAINST the SB 777 bill that are in the Capitol record.

ARGUMENTS IN OPPOSITION : Opponents contend that this
bill bans any instruction or activities in schools that
reflect adversely upon homosexuals, transgenders and
bisexuals, and therefore "any teaching promoting
traditional families would be discriminatory. Any
activities such as having a prom king and queen or
gender-specific bathroom would also be considered
discriminatory." [Letter from Capitol Resource Institute,
dated April 9, 2007]

Opponents further argue that this bill "silence[s] students
and teachers from the free expression of beliefs and
opinions that run contrary to total and complete acceptance
of all forms of sexual behavior." [Letter from California
Family Council, dated April 10, 2007] "Schools must be
careful not to (through curriculum, ancillary materials,
activities or publications) foster acceptance of behaviors
involving sexuality and practices that often contradict the
moral and religious teaching within families." [Letter
from Concerned Women for America of California, dated April
11, 2007]

To look up a bill, go to www.sen.ca.gov and click on legislation. You must know the year. Or you can search by subject.

Posted by elephantpower on August 26, 2008 at 7:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill...

Here is the link to this long bill. But, for your convenience, I've pasted below just the beginning of SB 777, The California Student Civil Rights Act. (Again, ask your PTA why they didn't tell you about this last fall.) Pay attention to the last sentence posted below regarding gender discrimination.
*************************************************

This bill would incorporate additional changes in Section
66270 of the Education Code, proposed by AB 14, to be operative only
if AB 14 and this bill are both chaptered and become effective on or
before January 1, 2008, and this bill is chaptered last.

THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA DO ENACT AS FOLLOWS:

SECTION 1. This act shall be known, and may be cited, as the
California Student Civil Rights Act.
SEC. 1.5. Section 200 of the Education Code is amended to read:
200. It is the policy of the State of California to afford all
persons in public schools, regardless of their disability, gender,
nationality, race or ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, or any
other characteristic that is contained in the definition of hate
crimes set forth in Section 422.55 of the Penal Code, equal rights
and opportunities in the educational institutions of the state. The
purpose of this chapter is to prohibit acts that are contrary to that
policy and to provide remedies therefor.
SEC. 2. Section 210.1 of the Education Code is amended and
renumbered to read:
210.3. "Educational institution" means a public or private
preschool, elementary, or secondary school or institution; the
governing board of a school district; or any combination of school
districts or counties recognized as the administrative agency for
public elementary or secondary schools.
SEC. 3. Section 210.1 is added to the Education Code, to read:
210.1. "Disability" includes mental and physical disability as
defined in Section 12926 of the Government Code.
SEC. 4. Section 210.7 is added to the Education Code, to read:
210.7. "Gender" means sex, and includes a person's gender
identity and gender related appearance and behavior whether or not
stereotypically associated with the person's assigned sex at birth.

Posted by elephantpower on August 26, 2008 at 8:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news...

Here is the link to the July 30th Star story in the Port Hueneme section about the Tolerance program at E.O. Green School.

Tell every parent at that school to boycott this crazy program. Because of SB 777, any child that answers their questionnaire in a way that the amateur psychologist interns deem is anti-LGBT, could be singled out for counseling, or worse, charged with a "hate crime", per this bill.

DO NOT TAKE the questionnaire. Parents can have their child opt out completely, or just opt out of the questionnaire. This way there won't be a permanent black mark about a hate crime in the student's record. This is manipulating the thoughts and morals of little 11 and 12 year old kids to conform to an LGBT agenda. Is the Rainbow Alliance going to give classes at E.O. Green during this program? Go to the Hueneme School Board and tell them your family is boycotting this program. Be sure to send your kid to middle school with the name of a defense lawyer. I'm serious. It is sad that you will have to explain the Miranda rights to an 11 year old. They DO have the right to remain silent. Minors also have the right to have a parent with them when they are questioned by the police, but they don't tell the kids that. Also, the kids do NOT have to write a statement while they are in the principal's office. The principal will tell them they must. Have the child instead write down what he is being told, and hide that paper. Be prepared, and practice civil disobedience with your child if you do not trust the school administrators to do the right thing. Looks to me like lots of Ventura County public school administrators have been guilty of abuse of power over these minors.

Posted by 805girl on August 26, 2008 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not sure if this is a good thing but one thing is for sure. Schools need to start taking teasing and bullys seriously. Kids now days are trigger happy (too much grand theft auto)this is a tragic story and also parents need to think twice before passing on their racism and hate ideas on to their kids. it might just mess up their life as well as somebody else.

Posted by elephantpower on August 26, 2008 at 9:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I found the info on the 12 week program. They want it to run once a week for 40 minutes during P.E. time. I found the questions VERY personal. Then they want to break into small groups for at risk kids, discussing similar problems. Do you want your families personal stuff shared openly with other students, teachers, and psychologists??? And do you want 11 and 12 year old kids being forced to analyze your family dynamics?? This is SO invasive. And God help your kid if they say that their religion says that homosexual behavior is a sin. THEY will be tagged as abnormal, and they will be harassed in these study groups. Boycott this amateur hour program. It will harm this vulnerable kids and make them disrespect their parents if the interns force them to renounce their family values in favor of LGBT values. This is a dangerous program. Yes, we need to stop bullying, but this is not the way.

The actual questionnaire is at the end. I think it stinks.

http://www.huensd.k12.ca.us/board08-0...

Posted by nelsonknows on August 26, 2008 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Who will have the guts to stand with me and address the Hueneme School Board? Who will also have the guts to contact the Department of Education, the Attorney General's office and the U.S. District Attorney's office?
Folks, read the Federal and State's laws on sexual harassment and I will also include an opinion by one of the main bodies to push for Title 9 in the U.S.
E.O. Green School, the school's administration, and Hueneme School District all need to be investigated for failure to comply with State's and Federal Mandates which makes E.O. Green complicit in a murder.
http://www.ed.gov/about/offices/list/...
http://www.bullypolice.org/ca_law.html
http://www.equalrights.org/publicatio...

Posted by nelsonknows on August 26, 2008 at 9:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

elephantpower, children are STILL covered by State's and Federal laws against sexual harassment and it's time these laws were enforced.

Posted by opns on August 27, 2008 at 6:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

nelson - please go to 'post a comment':
http://805vigilantes.blogspot.com/200...

Could you please propose how you plan to do this - please include attachments and other relevancy.
I understand your position, when children are left in the custody of the schools, we expect different, but on the flip coin here, where is the responsibility of the parents as well - when will the parents be held accountable and served with murder. How do you propose to challenge this? Or do you. Please leave comments at the above link, and anyone who would like to join in the challenge to move forth with this proposal with Nelson, is welcome communicate and troubleshoot any actions here. It's a place to start. Exchange emails, forms, documentation.

Again - this site is only to meet each other, communicate and troubleshoot ideas, inform the public for safety.

Regards,
805vililante

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 27, 2008 at 9:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Elephant Power: Please read Equitable Enforcer's post. HE/SHE referenced AB 777...I looked into that bill....not SB 777 which you so graciously referenced (thank you for that). I was not rebutting any part of that, only that when I found AB 777...it didn't seem to apply. I'll look into SB 777 and see how it works. I don't need to be middle aged to be educated. I don't need your Civics course to comprehend politics. I've actually taken various courses in U.S. Government, economics, internation studies/law as well as other political science courses. My university offered all of those. However, most of my points were not political in nature (citing laws, bills and propositions) I leave that to the experts. Mostly, my points were my opinions, as I'm free to have on this open forum for discussion.

Holdenon: You made yourself look foolish to those who have read my posts in the past and know that my screenname has nothing to do with my domestic and/or marital situation, other than my daughter's nickname is "Baby" and I'm her Dad. Just because Epstein is Gay does not necessarily mean she has an "agenda". Why are people so paranoid of the Gay community? Really...it's not contagious. I have several friends (for years) that are Gay and I am still straight. I see them no different from anyone else who is with someone that they love. Also, just because the majority of people can probably drive their car with their feet, but that DOESN'T make it a good idea. In addition, I'm glad you explain your position and how you like to be part of the majority, something to be said about the security of "if the majority is right so am I", but what if the majority are wrong? Really, right and wrong is a personal issue. To each his/her own. I'm not pushing any agendas on you or anyone on here, I'm merely continuing the conversation about the topic and attempting to provide a different perspective and my point of view. If you don't like my points of view (this is for WHATEVER), don't read my posts, please, simply skip over it and read the next one, that's your right.

Thanks.

Posted by BabyzDaddy_01 on August 27, 2008 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

CAMDAD:

Thanks for your prior post (prior to the poem). Puts things in perspective and in layman's terms.

Posted by nelsonknows on August 27, 2008 at 2:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank You for the the link opns. Will do.

Posted by LivinInPoorMansPV on August 28, 2008 at 5:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Next thing you know they will be bussing these kids like they do in Watts. You did it to yourself oxnard!