Posted by BigJake on August 20, 2008 at 5:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You simply cannot cascade water from your property to another. It does not matter if it is rain or irrigation water. Those living below the ranch believed that their neighbor had properly taken care of runoff issues.

Posted by luv2sail on August 20, 2008 at 6:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Guess one question would be if the Ranch wasn't there would the hill still slide?
For the life of me I still can't understand why someone would live directly under a high hill.

Posted by karslate on August 20, 2008 at 6:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

With all the warnings (previous slides- big and small) these owners of the houses in La Conchita knew of the potential hazards. I know of at least one family who used the money received from a previous slide to buy more property when it was dirt cheap (because of that slide) which was destroyed /damaged in this slide. They also had a rental in which the tenant was killed. Now THIS I call negligence...

Posted by Freedom1 on August 20, 2008 at 7:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's all about greed and valuing a lifestyle over life. Those folks that have built a "city" in this dangerous piece of property purposely endangered themselves in order to have cheap and easy access to the ocean and want everyone else to pay for their lifestyle. I feel sorry for the ranch owner who was there long before they were. The State should never have allowed homes to be built there and at the very least evicted those that remained after the first deadly slide because of the danger the would simply never go away.

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on August 20, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay, I predict this is the topic on VCS today - Anyways, Freedom 1, you said

"They purposely endangered themselves in order to have cheap and easy access to the ocean"

Yeah, um, okay. NOT. I have friends that died in the slide, and to say that someone purposely endangered themselves is a stupid comment. Yeah, they knew that there was potential danger in living there, but I highly doubt they PURPOSELY intednded on dying for living near the beach. Damn, I hate when I put myself in danger on PURPOSE. That could have been re-worded Freedom1. It's disrespectful for those who lost friends and loved ones in the slide.

Posted by Ms_California on August 20, 2008 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"The jury held that some of the property-owner plaintiffs like Charles Womack, who died in the landslide, bore some responsibility. Womack apparently allowed the Wallet family to live in his property rent-free."

What a crock! This person was doing a nice thing for a family in need and this is what they all get. He died and so did the children and their mother. This is terrible! If you are responsible, you are 100% responsible!

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on August 20, 2008 at 7:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

GM miss Cali

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on August 20, 2008 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Gm Junior

Posted by MRSMYTH on August 20, 2008 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Anyone that drives by La Conchita gets the impression it is a shanty town.
Why would anyone want to live there?
I have heard all kinds of reasons that people want to live there.Looks like the residents there are of the peasantry class
Amazing..

Posted by Rocket81 on August 20, 2008 at 8:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, it seems that everybody is happy now, except for the ranch. The money should be flowing in, and if they are lucky, after the lawyers take their piece, have enough to live on till the next big rains come. The End???

Posted by caskier on August 20, 2008 at 8:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I felt that this time the county of Ventura was not to blame; however, if this happens again (and it will) the county should be held liable. Why? Because the County should be forcibly evicting residents now and red tagging every home there. The danger is too great and the people who live there are too STUPID to get out.

Posted by Ms_California on August 20, 2008 at 8:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

GM Hueneme girl!

Jr... I agree with you to some extent.. BTW I love the zombie comment and I did check my neighborhood for the last zombie outbreak which was some time ago so I hope I am ok. at least for now.

People are commenting that these residents chose a dangerous place to live. Now, ask yourself this... you do live in California right? I mean we all live with the risk of earthquakes and it doesn't keep us from moving out of the state we love? I had a very good friend that lost her house in the first slide in 1995. She was devistated because she loved the small town feel that La Conchita has with it. I don't think these people are any lower class than those that live in the nice parts of Ventura, actually it is of the contrary for most of the residents. It is simpleton at it's best and some people like the view. I personally would not purchase a house there simply because it is so far out there but to some it is home just as Ventura, Oxnard and Camarillo are to the rest of us.

Posted by RebelGal on August 20, 2008 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It really is rediculous that we have so many provisions to keep homes earthquake "proof" and prevent disaters associated with earthquakes. What california (especially this area) is also known for is our mudslides. Why don't we have stricter provisions for building under a hill that has been known to have reoccuring slides?

Posted by lcowner on August 20, 2008 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am not involved with the suit. I didn't take money from anyone. I won't shed a tear when some depraved arsonist lights TO or Santa Clarita on fire, I will stand by my neighbors and friends through thick and thin. Please stay in your brick houses and leave us alone. Remember when you drive by at 85 miles an hour that you too are in a geologic hazard zone with more lanes to come. Sleep tight.

Posted by Ms_California on August 20, 2008 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jr... in 1994 (prior to La Conchita) we had a little earthquake that hit California called Northridge. There were homes affected in Filmore as well as Santa Paula during this quake. Not to mention I know we had some damage to our house in Ventura. We are exempt from disaster. We just have learned to live with it and cross our fingers we won't have disasters like this.

Posted by 6belle3 on August 20, 2008 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The indians had a name for this area "quaking mountain". That should tell you something about building a home there.

Posted by getreal on August 20, 2008 at 9:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jr many, many homes in the quake were totally destroyed. Several families lived for months on end at the Calabassas Country inn waiting for their homes to be rebuilt. I know, I was there. Regarding La conchita, its dangerous to live there, always have been. I cannot believe the residents sued someone over this natural disaster. If there was no ranch, just the hill, who would they have sued then? Granted it was a tragic thing to happen but come on, to sue the ranch for rain and a sliding hill??

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 9:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Part 1

Every single year people die in hurricanes, tornadoes, and floods in the U.S. In Hawaii, there are people who continue to live in the path of lava flows even though they've been forced to evacuate in the past. Everyone who lives in California lives in danger of falling victim to an earthquake that will overpower the most earthquake-proof structure that humans could ever possibly build. People who live on the coast anywhere in the U.S. are in danger of dying if and when a tsunami finally hits an American shore. In Texas and in the Midwest, thousands of people are displaced or killed by floods every single year, and when the flood waters recede most of them move right back to where they were living, knowing full well that the floods could be back the following year, and that they might very well have to go through all of the same misery all over again. People who live in Tornado Alley see entire towns wiped out each tornado season, and then they move right back to the same spots and rebuild and start all over again. In Florida, the Gulf Coast, and parts of the Eastern seaboard, every single resident who has lived in certain areas for more than 5 years has lived through at least one killer hurricane, and most of the people who survive continue to live there afterwards, too. While it is true that these people do not get to sue anyone for their troubles, it is also true that they receive, each year, billions of dollars of public assistance that comes out of the pocket of every single tax-paying American who doesn't live in those affected areas.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Part 2

Nobody suggests that we empty Florida, or Kansas, or the U.S. coastline of people, and if anyone ever tried to declare these areas off-limits we'd see the biggest property-rights battle the world has ever witnessed. Should we try to banish the residents of La Conchita, I fully believe that a property rights organization such as The Pacific Legal Foundation would take the residents' case on a pro bono basis, and the legal costs to the taxpayers of Ventura County would far exceed any possible rescue costs. Just as the State of California is not allowed to tell people that they cannot live near highly flammable forests, and the State cannot tell these people that, having been warned that they are living in harm's way, they'll be on their own if a fire hits, the County, the State, and the Feds are not able to simply waltz into La Conchita and give everyone the boot because it's unsafe. The whole world is unsafe. People who live in Ventura County are far more likely to be killed by gang activity, a traffic accident, or a terrorist or foreign military strike against Mugu, or even Vandenberg to the north if nukes were used.

As for the losers in this lawsuit, the ranch in question had been warned for years that its irrigation practices threatened the settlement below, and the owners chose to scoff at the warnings. You are not allowed to endanger the life of a homeless person who trespasses and sleeps on your property. It does not matter who owns the property, or who was there first. You are not allowed to create or maintain a property condition that endangers the life of another human being, regardless of how important you feel you are, or how wrong you feel the other person is. Setting a shotgun trap for a repeat burglar is a felony, and it's a felony even if it doesn't go off and kill the burglar. If a cop comes to your place and sees the trap, you're going to prison. Everyone has rights, but what I hear on this thread is that a lot of people seem to believe that the people of La Conchita don't have the same rights as every other American based on where they chose to live. If La Conchita were a huge and vastly profitable resort like Goleta's Bacara or Montecito's San Ysidro Ranch, you know that the County would be bending over backwards to make the place safe, and they would declare the place safe against all criticisms if there were millions and millions of dollars to be made off of the property.

Posted by Metalhaid on August 20, 2008 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms C--did you mean "we are NOT exempt from disaster"?
The County should have condemned the property in 1995 after the first slide. The property owners would have been howling about losing their homes and would have sued the bejeezus out of the County...but at least some people would still be alive. People must take responsibility for deciding where they will live, especially where children are involved. What a sad and harsh lesson.

Posted by USA_ROCKS on August 20, 2008 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Insane. Like many here believe, the conditions were known. The residents chose to live with the risk.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 10:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I predict that within the next 20 years, a huge resort will be built on the site of La Conchita Ranch, and that this multi-billion dollar investment is really what all of this is about.

People have been planning on doing this as long as Newhall Land and Farming has been planning to build Newhall Ranch. All legal and safety issues will be ameliorated with a healthy infusion of your tax dollars, and someone will build a resort there that none of you will ever be able to afford to visit.

Posted by USA_ROCKS on August 20, 2008 at 10:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms_California: Equivocate earthquake risk with a known landslide risk? The assessment of each is not close, not by a long-shot.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 11:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Again, there are natural disasters everywhere, why you would choose to amplify the chance of losing your life or your kids, is totally beyond me."

Why would you live in California, with its earthquakes? Why would you live in a county where you or your family could be killed by gang activity?

Life anywhere is a gamble. You've been informed of the risks of living here, yet you still do. I still do. We all still do. There's nowhere you can run and hide. Might as well die in a nice place that you like, right? Your kids are just as vulnerable at school or sitting at a bus stop as they are living in La Conchita. La Conchita's mostly only dangerous in the rain, but schools and the streets are dangerous every single day.

Posted by Ms_California on August 20, 2008 at 11:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Metalhaid ... yes my apology.

vwhunter... earthquake risk is just as much of a risk as a landslide. I would gather to guess that we have more earthquakes in California than we do mud slides.. albeit that the earthquakes we have may not damage property each time we have them but they do tend to cost more to retrofit building and freeways, and reconstruct any damage to areas that are affected.

I personally would not purchase a home in La Conchita but it is up to the residents who live there to determine if they should leave or stay. Just as we have made the decision to live in California with it's natural disasters. Remember that most of the homes in there are not going to be up for market. Some of those people probably feel stuck there with respect to their investments in homes.

Posted by george1234 on August 20, 2008 at 12:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Idiots! Move

Posted by THX1138 on August 20, 2008 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Regardless if the ranch was there or not there's always a chance the hill may come down. This is common sense folks - just refer to the history of the area.
Sure it's a tragedy any time someone dies, but I find it un-necessary to reward those that willingly chose to live in high danger area.

I purposely moved from a city that has a high watertable - there's a chance that someday there will be an earthquake and homes will sink into the ground.

Posted by MADJACKEL on August 20, 2008 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bottom of a hillside that has been having mudslides for hundreds of years. I guess the view is worth putting you and your loved ones in harms way.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 1:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It had been raining for 10 days! I feel horrible for the people who died in the slide and for their families and friends. I can't even imagine.

But given the history of the area...and the 1995 slide that took out several homes, no way, no how I would have still been there after 5 days of continous rain, let alone 10.

My heart still aches when I think about those little girls who died.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"and raining, last I heard, was not a natural DISASTER"

It is when you live along the banks of a river in the Midwest or Texas that overflows every single year and floods hundreds of square miles and kills people, their pets, and livestock and destroys their homes and businesses. True, they don't sue every time their towns get inundated, but then again the ranch above La Conchita had been warned for years that their irrigation practices were probably helping to destabilize the hillside. They chose to disregard the warnings. The jury heard that, and it helped them to make their final decision. And, at any rate, re-read the article; the jury found that residents of La Conchita were not 100% blameless. They just found that the ranch was to blame, too.

Posted by Amazon on August 20, 2008 at 1:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Equating this with the risk of an earthquake is ridiculous; You can get killed living anywhere by a natural disaster, but you amplify your risk of death by living under a large sloping hillside. I would love to live right on the ocean in Malibu, but seeing the history there as well during heavy rains (where the water is crashing through the homes), I would never take that added chance. Especially with children.
I would like to be an advocate for people living wherever they want, but if they live in areas where there are extraordinary risks, then they are putting the lives of rescuers at risk as well. Think of their families as well.

Posted by Amazon on August 20, 2008 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What I'm curious about is that if this happens again (and it will) can the residents sue again? Are they still planning on living down there?

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on August 20, 2008 at 1:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Here is a good example of a so-called jury of peers ... equally with property owners being unable to take responsibility for their own poor judgement ... convinced by smooth talking lawyers into making imtelligent appearing decisions so that money can be transferred from a legitimate business into the pockets of others, kind of like robbery without a gun. I pray that this is overturned on appeal.

I was born in Ventura. My father, during our many fishing excursions to the Rincon during the 50's, pointed out to me on occasion two chief geological items of interest: (1) where smoke from the side of the cliff was being emitted from what he thought was petroleum burning deep undergroung and (2) the ancient landslide at La Conchita which would undoubtedly give way again.

With that knowledge ... I maintain that the lawyers who benefitted from this scam are no less than sophisticated con artists. They benefitted from the naiveté of the jury and, in this case, possibly that of the judge. Legally correct? Perhaps. Did justice prevail? NO way. Our legal system needs overhauling ... from the lowest of the lawyers to the judges in our Federal courts.

Posted by BigJake on August 20, 2008 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

caskier I am with you. Is the country going to condemn all those homes and bulldoze them? Seems logical that the county would condemn them. But perhaps that is the reason why the county will not condemn them.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 2:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Your children are in danger anywhere and everywhere in the world. They're in danger from drunken and drugged drivers every time you put them in the car with you or allow them to drive their own cars. They're in danger of being shot to death every time you pack them off to school. They're in danger of being killed in a driveby shooting or gang crossfire while they're just out playing in their own front yards. You put your kids in harm's way every single day. This hogwash about worrying about the children of La Conchita is just that: hogwash. It sounds as if there are a lot of people who are bitter that they, too, can't live reasonably well by the sea for not too much money, and so they don't want anyone else to have the same privilege. Given all of the other dangerous situations that exist in Ventura County, complaining about just this one is mighty suspicious.

Go check out the canyon below the Casitas dam. There are a couple of dozen homes there that will disappear so quickly if that dam breaks in an earthquake that the families who live in them will never even have the chance to say "Huh?" The entire Ventura River valley between Foster Park and the ocean will be scoured as clean as the Santa Clara River valley was when the San Francisquito Canyon dam broke in the early 1900s. Everyone who lives in the path of Casitas' floodwaters knows that their lives and their children's lives are in danger. Do you think that these folks shold be moved out of harm's way, too. Any who survived could certainly sue someone if that dam broke. (And, if you don't think there's even the slightest chance of that dam ever breaking, ask yourself what's up with all of those evacuation sirens on power poles between Foster Park and the ocean. I guess if the dam develops a leak they might some good, but in an 8.0 to 10.0 earthquake, they'll just be something else that's going to be washed out to sea.)

Wake up. Your lives could all end at any second. You could have a stroke while sitting at your computer typing. You could throw a clot while playing soccer or baseball. You could choke to on a piece of meat while raiding the refrigerator at midnight. You could get shot in the chest as you walk away from the ATM. You could be unfortunate enough to be in a store that's being robbed by a truly evil person who decides that there will be no witnesses. You could be crushed to death in a parking lot by a really bad driver while walking with your family toward Target or Trader Joe's. You could be driving on Highway 33 in Los Padres National Forest and die under a huge rockfall. (Ever seen those piles of boulders that CalTrans has pushed off to the side of the road?) You and your whole family could die in a plane crash. There are a million ways to die, and sooner or later one of them is going to catch up with each and every one of us. At that last moment you might see how you could have avoided that particular kind of death. But, you didn't.

Enjoy living.

Posted by Relvd98 on August 20, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know about you Junior, but I enjoyed (sarcastic) reading jeff's one hundred and one ways of how we will one day die.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 2:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jeff93024...I'm all for living life to its fullest. And I agree that you never know when your time is up and it could happen anywhere.

But come on, it had been raining for 10 days and with the prior history of a huge landslide, why would anyone stay in their home?

I wouldn't be afraid to live in La Conchita now but come rainy season, I'd sure be keeping an eye on that hill. And if there were more than a day or so of heavy rain, I'd be outta there.

There is a distinct difference between not living because you're afraid to die and getting off the train tracks when the train is coming.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Relvd98...seriously, right?

And if we weren't afraid to go out and "live" before, we might me now! Heck, there's some scary sh*t out there!

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 2:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

oops! "might BE now..."

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 2:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What seems less-than-smart to me is that you apparently will not read, absorb, and understand anything that runs counter to your agenda and your stated beliefs. You just pick and choose certains words and phrases, and then you attack them out of context.

No, I do not live in La Conchita. I do not know anyone who lives in La Conchita. I did not know anyone who lived in La Conchita when the slides hit. I just hate busybodies who believe that they've been put on Earth by God to tell other people how they ought to be living, especially when it's highly likely that if I were to examine their lives I would be able to prove to them that, in some way, they are completely guilty of doing what they're castigating others for doing.

You may not put your child in a car with a drunken driver, but you frequently do put your child in a car that is going to be out on the streets at the mercy of other UI drivers, don't you? Of course you do, and you know it. La Conchita only slides every now and then, but those drunks kill innocent people every single day. How do you live with the knowledge that you gamble with the lives of your loved ones in this fashion?

Posted by Relvd98 on August 20, 2008 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That's what I always say in a positive and upbeat tone...I try and live life to the fullest. Yes, we are indeed in danger everyday and everywhere. We cannot be on the constant lookout, as we do not have those extra set of eyes behind our heads.

Yesterday is gone, Today is yours and Tomorrow is unsure.

Enjoy =)

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jeff93024...in my opinion, it's not about choosing to live in La Conchita it's about NOT getting the hell out of there after we had record rains. Especially since the La Conchita community, prior to the 2005 slide, lived day in and day out with the rubble from the houses that were lost in the 1995 slide.

Yes, we put ourselves and our families in harms way every day just by breathing and leaving the house. But this is a different situation. It's not like it was a sunny day and the hill just jumped on them.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"But come on, it had been raining for 10 days and with the prior history of a huge landslide, why would anyone stay in their home?"

I can't answer that. Why do people not get the h**l out of Florida when they know a hurricane is coming. The only thing I can figure is that we tend to stand our ground in our homes. We tend to believe that the worst will not happen.

You live in nuclear crosshairs every day of your life. Our Naval Base and Point Mugu will be some of the first American real estate to be vaporized should Russia or China or some as-yet-unknown player decide that they need to take us down big time. Vandenberg will be targeted, too. Ventura, Santa Barbara, and L.A. counties will mostly just be big green glass bowls if this happens. Given the strategic importance of these bases, it's an absolute certainty that the enemy would try to take them out. How do you live here knowing that? How do you keep your children in the blast radius as if you believed that it could never happen? If you figure out the answer, apply it to the people who refused to evacuate La Conchita.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 3:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"It's not the same drunks that kill people every single day..."

That's a weak and specious argument and you know it. It wasn't exactly the same particles of dirt that came down each time in La Conchita, either.

There are drunks and stoners out there every day. Were it always just the same ones and never any new ones, we'd be lucky. Sooner or later they'd all kill themselves off and we wouldn't have to worry about them anymore. But that's not how it works. There are new drunks out there every single day, and that makes it worse, not better.

Posted by SCfan01 on August 20, 2008 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think if some of these people lived in La Conchita, their views would be different. Has anyone figured that maybe some of these people do not have the money to move? Especially with the price of real estate back then? Their houses were worth nothing, because no one would buy a house there after the slide.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 3:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Their houses were worth nothing, because no one would buy a house there after the slide."

Absolutely right. The La Conchita people wound up with almost nothing, but there are people who would take even that away from them. They're willing to treat the La Conchita families the way so many local, state, and federal agencies treated the Katrina families. I guess that in some circles it's cool to kick people when they're down.

Posted by h2odog on August 20, 2008 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Jeff93024-True, sooner or later we will all meet our maker. The residents at La Conchita can decide to stay or go, the choice should be entirely their own. Those adults still living there hopefully take the well being of their children into account.

However, the next time the hill comes down either because of rain or a quake, they shouldn’t go running to their attorneys to try and place blame on the County or the Ranch Company.

Posted by pmotherat on August 20, 2008 at 4:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The La Conchita area has a history of slides going back to before there were ever homes or a ranch there. I agree with all of you who said do your homework before you move to an area. I am sorry for all the lives and homes that were lost. But, the blame game is getting old. It doesn't matter if it was the ranch or an act of God. It just happened. So either fix the problem or move! Besides I've heard that only zombies live there anyway.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 4:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"However, the next time the hill comes down either because of rain or a quake, they shouldn’t go running to their attorneys to try and place blame on the County or the Ranch Company."

As long as the ranch takes viable steps to mitigate anything they were doing that contributed to the destabilization of the already unstable hillside, I agree with you 100%. The facts are out there, and nobody can pretend that they aren't, residents included.

I don't believe that anyone in their right mind believes that the County has the kind of money it would take to adequately address that hillside, and at any rate they'd have to cut so far back into the ranch that there wouldn't be much of a ranch left.

As far as rain goes, though, I have a feeling that we're likely to see a long, long, stretch pass before we ever see that much rain again. This is probably a good thing, because there's an enormous slump/slide ready to come down on the estates at the north end of Victoria in Ventura, and other slides on the hillside underneath Grant Park and again a bit further to the north that will probably take out a lot of homes when they finally go. The mud will probably make it all the way across Ventura Avenue and into the neighborhoods on the other side of that street. There's another slump back off of Highway 33 in Casitas Springs that will probably close 33 for months if it lets go, and given enough rain it will certainly let go. It has already started, and it's just hanging there waiting.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 4:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So jeff93024...what is your point? People are entitled to their opinions and to voice them here.

Other than telling everyone that they have no right to judge the La Conchita residents, what is your point?

Posted by worldfxr on August 20, 2008 at 4:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Socially Parasitic Lawyers, bad judgement by the judicial system and a poorly informed jury are much of the problem here. This was a natural event. Not man made!

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 5:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"People are entitled to their opinions and to voice them here."

I'm glad you see it that way. That means you must think I'm entitled to my opinion, too, and entitled to voice them here even if others disagree with them. My response to h2odog was mostly conversational. From what I can see here, I have the right to do that, too.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 5:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Of course, you are free to post just like anyone else. I just didn't get your point. Trying to understand.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 5:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I just didn't get your point. Trying to understand."

If it really matters to you, then work at it a bit. I think you'll get it.

However, here's a clue: it has a lot to do with A) my disdain for people who can easily swallow whole camels but who like to publicly make a big stink about how they choke on single fleas, and B) people who hate governmental influence in their own lives and choices, but who are quick to suggest that the government interefere in the lives and choices of others.

Posted by H8War on August 20, 2008 at 5:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Bea,
The point is the old cliche "People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones. I think Jeff speaks with greater clarity and wisdom than almost anyone I've seen post on this site. People are so mean and catty here when something happens to people they don't like. Could it be that maybe a lot of the people in La Conchita were good ol' Santa Barbara counterculture types that the allegedly good people of Ventura County would prefer to look down on? Of course, they think, the hippies are at fault not the fine respectable people who own the ranch. You are an exception and do not usually do that, but such snobbery is rampant in this blog and it makes me want to vomit.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 20, 2008 at 6:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

H8War (great moniker by the way!) - thank you for the clarification. And I totally appreciate Jeff's message, just think that it was delivered with a tad bit o'venom. In my humble opinion.

Regarding this situation - who could fault anyone from wanting to live in La Conchita? It's beautiful there. Even with the mudslides I'd still think that it's a great place to live.

My point (not judging...just saying) is that if it had been me, I would not have stayed there through 10 days of heavy rain, especially given that on my daily walk I was able to see the crushed ruins of houses from the 1995 slide.

And even if the ranch owner had done what they were supposed to do, 10 days of rain could do some serious damage.

Posted by jeff93024 on August 20, 2008 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

H8War:

Thank you. Your style reminds me of a commenter whose writing I used to enjoy very much, but the cattiness and mean-spiritedness drove her away long ago, I think. Her name was Margaret Morris.

BeaHappi:

I admit to being more than a little acerbic today. It happens when I find myself in the midst of people who wish things upon strangers that they'd never wish upon themselves or their loved ones. I didn't have to stay here today, but I was stuck behind my computer for other reasons and I kept coming back. If I insulted you, I apologize.

Posted by jeffreys49 on August 21, 2008 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I still feel sorry for the Wallet family and the others that lost there lives, I have driven past La Conchita almost daily for 15 + years now I'm not a geologist but if you look at that hillside from the south to the north side of la Conchita to me it looks like this the land has many slides over time.
I do believe that if you divert water or construct a device that endangers another person you could be held responsible but when it comes to this issue do we really think that an avacado farmer is to blame for the movement of the hillside that is 1/8 the size of the whole town.

I think that if anyone should be held in account for this is the COUNTY they built the wall that diverted the mud and water , Also who will we blame the next time that it pours rain for days and the area is covered in again ,

Posted by AnnaWhaat on August 21, 2008 at 7:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

FYI- As for the 94 quake in Fillmore. Fillmore for the size of the town had much more damage then Northridge. Yes people did die during the quake. Many homes in Fillmore had to be torn down. Homes collapsed makeing it impossible to get out other the crawling out the windows to escape. I felt like it was right under my house. I have thousands and thousands worth of damage on my home. It was very serious. No way out of town or into town for awhile. My spouse was on the 14 freeway right behind the motorcycle Officer who went off the freeway where it collapsed. I had about 60% of the items handing on my walls fall off. Cupboards opened up and kitchen items all over the floor. My washer in the garage jumped around so far the water line yanked out of the wall. Fillmore was hit alot more then SP felt it. The damage was unreal. You had to be there. I still have the video I took of my home and around town and all the newspapers about it.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 21, 2008 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jeff93024 - no apologies necessary - I was not offended. I totally get what you're saying and where you were coming from with the comments.

Posted by hatethegame on August 21, 2008 at 10:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OMG. The only person who has any clue to may what really be going on here is jeff....W/E. And the fact the he has nothing to do with L.C. or the slide is very hopeful. God I could say , he using common sensse. But then one of you could respond ,(well common sense would be, not to live there). So I can't say that. But truly until you know all the facts S>T>F>U. Go off to your own lives and survive. Someone called the people of L.C. Survivalist. DUH, arn't we all as humans. Iknow Beahappy or buisybea what ever yur name is , if I am going to blog at least I should spell corectly. Well sorry ,for me it's not how you say it, it's what you say. So read between the lines and get a clue.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 21, 2008 at 10:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

hatethegame...what are you jumping all over me for? People are entitled to post their opinions and often times debate is part of that. What about that don't you get?

Maybe instead of hatethegame your moniker should be hatemylife...lighten up buddy!

Posted by hatethegame on August 21, 2008 at 11:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So here we go ignoring what I really said . OK I'll come up with some cute name, maybe beekeeper. Does that imply I love my life. Hating the game has nothing to do with my love for my life. On the contrtary, I see my life outside the game and that is why I hate it.(THE GAME). So yes , it may seem I was ataking u. But I'm mearly saying check yourself. You really!!!!!, have no idea what your talking about. I mean all of you. Judjing before you know all the info. It's really quite boring. I'v got myself into the world of the passive aggressive bloging. Maybe we should do coffee and see how we feel then. Until then, get a life.And remember don't stop reading between those lines.

Posted by hatethegame on August 21, 2008 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh, and if your looking for somewhere to lighten up. Maybe you should try the gym, cause a blog on little girls getting smashed to death is not the place to "lighten up". BUDDY.

Posted by BeaHappi on August 21, 2008 at noon (Suggest removal)

Hey, I think about those little girls a lot. One of my very close friends knew the Wallet family personally. As a mother myself, I can't even imagine the sadness and grief that their family members suffered and probably are still suffering. I cried for days after that happened not even knowing them.

Why do I need to check myself? I'm entitled to my opinions and am very open to listening to others. But coming on here all hostile and then tossing my name into the mix...when there were people who had much more judgemental comments than mine...well I questioned why you were calling me out.

If you hate the game so much...which I guess means this forum for voicing opinions, then perhaps you shouldn't be here.

And I meant lighten up in your tone not about your feelings about this horrible tragedy.

Posted by Monotremata on August 21, 2008 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So there was a wall built by the county after that last one?? You mean that cheap black mesh fence that was on the hillside I saw every day driving to work in Santa Barbara?? I dont ever remember seeing any 'wall'. Who knows maybe they built it behind the houses that used to be there so it was obscured from view.

I do feel very sorry for those that lost lives in the flood, but I was sitting right there on the 101 in the morning waiting to get through traffic shortly after it happened and the cops began diverting people back to Ventura. The rain that entire month was HORRIBLE and as was already said this wasnt the first time it happened and regardless of what the rancher does its going to happen again.. Hell the ventura river was flooding over the 101.. Can I sue because I couldnt get right back home and go back to sleep?

Was the ranch owner supposed to build a brand new sewer system to divert all water away from that entire side of the mountain or what? Makes no sense, the rain hit the damn hill and hit the whole thing hard, no drainage wouldve stopped it. The rain was directly hitting the mountain, it was inevitable.

Dont the residents that live there sign some sort of declaration that they KNOW they are moving to a known disaster area??

Its going to happen again people.. Be smart and start looking for a new home thats not sitting right underneath an eroding mountain.

It was bad enough we have familys lost, and now a farmer gets put out as well. Somebodies always gotta blame someone and look for a reward..

Posted by jill on August 21, 2008 at 12:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My heart breaks for all that perished in the slide and their families. That being said, there is no way in hell that I would have ever lived there or allowed my loved ones to live there after the first two slides. The writing was on the wall and it was just a matter of time and a good, hard rain. Why anyone would put themselves at that kind of risk is beyond me. You can drive along the freeway and see where landslides have occurred in the past.

Posted by sunsetnsand on August 22, 2008 at 11:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I appreciate reading these blogs on this issue: it's important we discuss a difficult situation like this as a community. But we must work to find solutions to this situation with compassion.

My family has been in Ventura County since 1918, and had a beach house located on the two lane dirt road (Hwy 1) directly across from La Conchita, on the beach, until we were forced to move it to Mussel Shoals in 1952 for the new paved Hwy 101. My grandfather and all the landowners there knew about the danger of that entire hillside (4 railroad workers were killed by a landslide in 1909), and knew the property at the base of the hillside was not supposed to be lived on: it was land that was set aside to protect the railroad from getting hit by a landslide: that is why the railroad tracks are next to the Highway!

The property and lots that are in La Conchita were squatted on (homesteaded), and some developer managed to get the County to create the legal lots there.. for $$$, of course. Why did the County allow this? Perhaps they to wanted the income from the property taxes: $$$. The existance and continual presence of the properties in La Conchita are still driven by greed/capitalism: why are the realtors, lenders and insurance companies still funding these properties? $$$. Why are the landowners not leaving? To little $$$. Why is the State not repairing the hill? To much $$$. How about ending this whirlpool of greed, and realize lives are at stake: there is no $$$ on a scale for a single life!

So, how do we solve this unacceptable ongoing danger to our fellow community members?

(I knew the Wallets, and I am crying now at this loss and destruction of this truely beautifull family)

The only suggestion I have is: it would cost a lot less to buy out these properties and level the land, and this would give the owners the ability to move.. and move the must, the sooner the better.

This area should be turned into argricultural land at best. I know this is a painfull reality for them, but what other reasonable options are there? We community members outside of La Conchita, will pay, through taxes, for the continual damage from future slides.. a small price compared to what the residents face, but this needs to stop now for the good of our whole community.

Last comment: someone wake up the "Major of La Conchita": it is NOT a town, as quoted by the AP, and you are not a Major: this line of thinking only creates a false sense of solidity that fuels digging in deeper to stay. You want to lead? Seek the funding and show them how to leave while it is still safe.. and close the door behind you, so no one else has to live in those conditions ever again. That would be the sign of a truely great leader!

Posted by ValerinaS on August 22, 2008 at 2:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My heart goes out to all the families who lost loved ones in the slide. Truly tragic. To sit here and call these people "idiots" is just insanely cruel. It's not like they received evacuation notices, yes they knew the land wasn't safe, but if you're not the one in the situation, you never know how you will respond. And I truly don't see whether the Wallets were paying rent or not should affect the fact that they lost their LIVES. As a parent, I cannot fathom the loss. I'm glad they are going to receive some damages after a long and grueling trial. I, as many on here, have friends involved. And just to inform everyone on here who thinks living in Ventura is safe, I work for a firm consisting of geologists and engineers and have been well informed that if we get a good quake along the San Andreas fault, we can expect a tsunami to cover all the way to Camarillo. So everyone who opened their mouths to talk about how 'stupid' the residents of La Conchita are/were, I presume we can expect to see your houses on the market??? I think not. Congratulations to the families and survivors some how doesn't seem quite suiting. I'm so sorry for your loss.

Posted by hatethegame on August 22, 2008 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with some of what was said by sunsetnsand. I think the underlying issue of this law suit is to find some reall answer to, what is going to save future lives. Do you honestly think that once people get the money they are going to be done with all this. If you truley know the wallets or anyone involved you know this wont stop untill something is done. Let's all remember after the wallet girls were found, Mr.Wallet went back to help with anything else. Untill he was thretend with arest. He's not going to walk away from this.

So anyone judjing, Look deeper into this . Have any of ever been somewhere cause there was literaly know where else to go.

So if LC was ever forgotton about, maybe that's why it neeed a mayor. Who knows? But I can tel you the people of LC have been lied to. They were told they were safe to some degree. This is much bigger than common sense.

So as a person of our community, I am just sayiing don't believe every thing you read.Facts are facts it will happen again. But I don't see anyone raising hands. So anyone with an idea of what to do with all these homes and families i am sure they would love to here from you. I for one would rather use my tax dollars for maybe a WALL. WALL WALL WALL WALL. There was never a wall built it was a lie!!!! This is a fact!!!!! And further more I'll spend some tax dollars for the beautiful wallet family.

Posted by ValerinaS on August 22, 2008 at 3:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunsetnsand, you definitley have the right idea. God forbid the County do something "logical" though.

Posted by caskier on August 22, 2008 at 4:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Sunsetnsand, excellent comment. Valerina - all I am asking is why do people still live there? It is ignorant and irresponsible. We know the history, you don't have to be an expert to conclude it is very unsafe. They should move on their own or the county should red tag all of the houses and force them to leave - for their own safety.

Also, as a county resident and tax payer, I don't want to be sued ever again by these people who should have known better. The hill will slide again and more lives will be lost - and we county residents should not have to pay for other's lack of responsibility. More importantly, children should not have to pay with their lives for their parent's lack of responsibility.

Get them out now!

Posted by hatethegame on August 23, 2008 at 10:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

caskier, what do you suggest the people do when they are forced from there homes? I mean all this common sense maybe you should call with some thing they have not thought of.
Some of you judje like you know the answer. So lets hear it.
This is not black and white. THere is so much gray.

And as far as parents lack of responsibuility, how cruel, How discustingly cruel of you to make that statment.

I think this whole blog should be shut down. I r eally hope the family memebers and any of you judjmental, in the box ,people never run into each other.

Again, "get them out now", to where?

God, I bet if I went to other blogs all your names would be on them too. So until this is something besides passing the time at your computer. Something besides your passive agressive comments to something you know nothing about, please, some personal invitory might be helpful.

Posted by hatethegame on August 23, 2008 at 2:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And as far as my tone goes I won't lighten up. But ther'se a blog somewhere on here about the best kept secrets of ventura county. The tone is pretty light on that. So maybe u beahappy, should go there. Hate the game baby , hate the game.