Posted by opfor2 on September 22, 2007 at 6:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Screw the ACLU and MALDEF!!!! The Church caused this situation by bragging to the Star and the Simi Valley Acorn that they were going to be harboring an illegal. Had they kept it quiet no one would of know but no they couldn't do that. For once I would love to see the ACLU do something right. There a bunch as idiots..

Posted by AnnaWhaat on September 22, 2007 at 6:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree ! Had the Church just voiced its views on the situation then I can see thier constitutional rights to freedom of speech. BUT since they made it loud and clear that they were defying the law and harboring someone illegally, I really feel they are at fault.

Posted by mengelhard on September 22, 2007 at 7 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I want to thank all the people who are supporting us," she said. "We will stand firm and strong so Congress hears and respects our rights."

What rights? She is here illegally. Moreover, she made a deliberate decision to be here illegally because she didn't want to do through the red tape to become a citizen. Inconvenience doesn't give you the right to break the law.

Moreover, her family can stay together in Mexico until she becomes legal, so to say that this is about keeping families together is a farce.

Posted by allblacks on September 22, 2007 at 7:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Goudey and her congregation had hoped the protest would be peaceful, without counterprotesters."

So...she only wants her side of the issue to get publicity. She HAD to have known that there would be counterprotesters when she sought out the publicity and announced their protest.

They should pay the bill.

Posted by moondoggie on September 22, 2007 at 7:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

So picket the donut shop tomorrow morning. You will find at least fifty illegals getting a cup of coffee and donut before heading out to work for us white folk. Miller can then send a bill to the Vietnamese family who own the donut shop. This will be an even better America. Where is Hitler when we need him?

Posted by tnotg on September 22, 2007 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It's nice to see that the Ventura County Sheriffs Department isn't bowing down to politics like Paul Miller is. This incident is no longer about immigration laws, its about an out-of-control mayor who thinks he can do what he wants.

And Barbra Williamson's statement to the effect of ...aren't there any churches in Oxnard that will take her...what veiled bigotry.

I say...BOYCOTT SIMI VALLEY. Spend no money there. Right through the Holiday Season. If Paul Miller thinks he can intimidate the expression of Free Speech by sending out bogus billing, then those of us who think this is a bad decision on Miller's part can do our part and BOYCOTT SIMI VALLEY through the holiday season.

Maybe they'll get our message. Shame on Miller's ineptitude, and on Williamson's blatent racist statement.

Posted by RavenSoft on September 22, 2007 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The church openly stated they were going to essentially break federal law by harboring an ILLEGAL alien. I don't see a problem with billing the church, heck the church and any other church that does this should have their tax exempt status revoked. What these chuches should do is get together and help the ILLEGAL alien in immigration proceedings, like pay for a lawyer or support the family, NOT breaking the law. They can provide food and money, but facilitating the breaking of laws....that is crossing the line more than sending the bill to this church.

Oh and just picketing a donut shop and then trying to bill the vietnamese owners for it would not be right unless the vietnamese owners went to the media to say they were going to break the law. IF they did that then yes they should be billed. And those 50 ILLEGALS should be picked up and sent back to their home country and told to go through the immigration process.

Posted by laboratory on September 22, 2007 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Stop the ignorance. Our nation protects Liliana’s rights by recognizing her as a human being. This is the beauty of our constitution that all man (women) are created equal. It’s time to get rid of that 1950’s mentality. Our nation’s demographics are rapidly changing, so do our attitudes need to change to make this nation great. Liliana who came with a Visa and married a U.S. citizen wants to be part of the system, pay taxes, and take care of her family. Like any other law abiding American. But our laws prevent her from doing so. I applaud her courage in taking refuge to stand for a problem that needs a solution, and deal with all the hatred of the anti-immigrant groups.

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 22, 2007 at 8:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

OH gawd....here we go again!

In the end, the City will back down. You know that is how it's going to end up. All this does is rile people up who are already edgy anyway.

Boycott Simi Valley? Why? There isn't anything most people need or want there anyway. I think I've been to Simi Valley once in 25 years, and even that was only to Lowe's. They didn't have something I needed at the Ventura Lowe's or I wouldn't have gone then.

So...still, all those cops and sheriffs and STILL noone saw or can catch the one guy who sprayed noxious chemicals? It's been how long? WOW...gotta wonder if they even want to catch him. Doesn't sound like Miller is interested in this.

Posted by ironwoman on September 22, 2007 at 8:37 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am glad I am not a member of this Church. Church is supposed to emphasize honesty and integrity, living a life with values and all that good stuff.
What kind of a church does this and brings so much negative attention to our community?
and by the way....Mexicans that go to the donut shop in the mornings doesn't mean that they are all illegals. What an ignorant statement that was.

Posted by simivalleystar on September 22, 2007 at 9:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

allblacks: "So...she only wants her side of the issue to get publicity. She HAD to have known that there would be counterprotesters when she sought out the publicity and announced their protest."

You might want to get your facts straight beofre looking like an idiot. Reread the original response from her.

Rev. Goudey asked the "COUNTER"-protestors (those on HER side) not to show up. In other words, she didn't want the people there that were OPPOSING the protestors. The church's intentions were simply to try and prevent any chance of violence.

Posted by steven.m.sawyer on September 22, 2007 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

***ANNOUNCEMENT***

There will be a protest held at the residence of Mayor Paul Miller on Thursday at 5:00 p.m.

Whatever your feeling on immigration, if you agree that protesters have the freedom of speech, and that protestors should not be able to target someone with the intent of inflicting a $40,000 bill on them... then please attend this peaceful protest.

Let's see if the city council sends the target of this protest a bill for the police responce required to "keep the peace" at our peaceful protest.

See you there!!!

Posted by ironwoman on September 22, 2007 at 9:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What good is protesting the Mayor's Home? I hope he calls the police and has all of you arrested and then bills you for calling this protest. Peaceful is letting the justice system take place. Leave it alone.
The city has the right to bill the church.
Illegal immigration is ILLEGAL. What part of illegal don't you understand?

Posted by Freedom1 on September 22, 2007 at 10:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Church and Rev. Goudey got exactly what they wanted - lots of free publicity which further polarized peoples' opinion on this divisive matter. The Church is not above the law regardless of how they feel about this issue. They are in violation of Federal law. They asked for it, now they have to pay the consequences. While I may have sympathy for "Liliana" and her family, she violated our immigration laws coming and staying here and she was fully aware of those violations. She's had her day in court and been ordered deported. She alone is responsible for the situation that she is now facing. And the Church, by offering "sancturary" is abetting a crime and the consequences of their actions is a bill for the service of the Simi Valley Police Department. Win or lose I cannot tell you how much I admire Mayor Miller for his handling of this matter. Thank you Mayor Miller!

Posted by steven.m.sawyer on September 22, 2007 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Okay wonderwoman, so you agree it is okay for a group of protesters to show up in front of a church and when the police arrive the mayor sends the church a bill.

Now if a group of protesters shows up in front of the mayors house you want to have the protesters arrested and the bill sent to the protesters?

A bit hypocritical don't you think?

The scary thing is... you probably vote.

I understand illegal just fine... the only one committing a crime is the illegal immigrant and the city council.

The church, the protesters and the police are completely within the law.

Posted by H8War on September 22, 2007 at 10:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ah, the neolithicons are out.

1. According to the law, the church did nothing illegal. They merely gave refuge to someone with an illegal immigration status WHICH IS NOT ILLEGAL!
If it was, VC agriculture would be out of business.

2. What this issue is really about is Mayor Miller and the Simi Valley City Council abusing their authority in an attempt to punish the church for these non-illegal acts, and to subvert the rights of free speech and assembly as described in the US Constitution.

3. The city will be lucky if only costs them ten times $40,000 by the time this is over.

4. Ventura County certainly doesn't have to import bigots from Upland. I can see from the above posts that there are plenty of them locally.

5. Go ACLU! You've got a great case!

Posted by allblacks on September 22, 2007 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Simivalleystar-why get personal? Only one reason I can see. You are for the church intentionally breaking a federal law. If that's what you want fine. I say that makes you an idiot.
Now, did that accomplish anything?
The bottom line is that the so-called reverend wanted the free publicity and she got it, only to find out it wasn't as free as she thought it would be.

Posted by Jacksprat on September 22, 2007 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The city sent a bill, no problem what the church does with the bill is another thing. Pay it, throw in the waste basket but now the city has put the ball in the churchs court and it is up them to decide what to do.
So stop all the noise and let us let this thing move on the way it should. We have a church doing an illegal act, which they feel they have the right to do, and a city which because of that act had extra an extra cost. So let them work out what will happen. All the talk will not solve the problem
Next thing you know Jesse Jackson and his friend Sharpenton will be out here on the causeing more trouble. Bus loads of people.

Posted by RelaxPeople on September 22, 2007 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

No way this bill ever gets paid.

Posted by Freedom1 on September 22, 2007 at 11:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jmcgaw3046 - couldn't agree with you more. If the "Jena 6" exercise hadn't come up I'm sure Jesse Jackson and the Rev. Al would be speaking at Sunday services!

Posted by Freedom1 on September 22, 2007 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

RelaxePeople - I sure hope you're wrong.

Posted by jskdn on September 22, 2007 at 11:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I want to know if Simi Valley asked ICE to come and arrest the woman as the are so entitled and charged with doing. If they didn't take that affirmative step to remove the proximate cause of the protest, then they have nothing to complain about.

Never the less I'm against such a show of force by law enforcement to prevent possible altercations. Law enforcement should use undercover officers to identify and arrest protesters that cross the line between their peaceful right to assemble and unlawful activity. The punishment against these people should be draconian. When a few have been convicted, spent some years in jail and are burdened with having to pay huge fines and charges, the message will take hold.

Posted by Freedom1 on September 22, 2007 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jskdn - The Mayor has said that he contacted Congressman Gallegly who notified ICE of the situation. ICE gave the usualy statement - they will decide the best time to make apprehension. This was in the newspaper articles on this topic.
And, whatever action law enforcement takes - whether it easily uniformed or undercover officers - really doesn't matter. Perhaps past experience has told them that a show of force is the best deterent to violence.

Posted by ironwoman on September 22, 2007 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

StevenSawyer- When did I write that I agreed with the protest? I didn't.

Before you write a response, make sure you know what you are saying first.

Oh and my ability to vote...most people with COLLEGE EDUCATIONS should vote.

Posted by jskdn on September 22, 2007 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Freedom1- I'm not sure why they didn't contact ICE directly but since they were contacted, I think the city should co-bill the federal government in a very public way. I know that it won't result in payment but that doesn't mean that it won't put the spotlight on their failure to enforce the law. Let people know that ICE is deliberately deciding to not do its job and the people of the city will be paying for their negligence.

I say bring in the show of force after they have identified those who have broken the law, at which point they will have become liable parties. It won't take many $50k bills and criminal charges to let protesters know that there are real consequences to their actions.

Posted by terryt6666 on September 22, 2007 at 5:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I've always wondered why the churches has always gotten away without having to pay taxes? I understand that there is a seperation between churh and state when it comes to religion. But why just because they can call themselves a church are they not having to pay taxes like the rest of we poor slobs. It seems to me that if we started taxing some of these churches we could end up with a balanced budget and probably be able to support some of these other programs like care for the elderly, medical for all Americans, better schools, etc. I don't understand why they get around it?
As to the comment that the Constitution guarantees these rights to all people, I suggest that the person go and look back on the writers of that doccument. It was written by a bunch of wealthy revolutionaries that didn't want to pay King George any taxes. When it was finished and signed, white landowners were the only ones that had any rights. Woman, blacks and anyone other than those signers had no rights at all. It wasn't until much later that rights were given to minorities other than landowning rich "men." As to the statement hating anti-immigration, there is a definite difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants. No one is anti-immigration that I know of. We simply want to see the laws that we have written for our society obayed. That in my way of thinking is not racist. Speaking of racist. When this woman gave her little speech to reporters, did I hear it was in Spanish first and then in English? Who was she trying to appeal to? Most Spanish people who have lived here and came to this county legally don't want illegal immigration either. So who is playing the race card???

Posted by alejandro on September 22, 2007 at 5:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enough!! Ice needs to do their job and deport the illegal alien (criminal)and the church needs to pay the bill for breaking U.S. law.

The DREAM Act:The BETRAYAL OF AMERICA'S CHILDREN BY AMERICAN SENATORS

With the DREAM Act that is being voted on Monday... our NATION and Americans are once again being betrayed by corrupt and deceitful Senators, such as Feinstein, Salazar, Kennedy, Hagel etc., who have sold their greedy souls to racist organizations such as LA RAZA, whose motto is "For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing." and MEChA, who declare that their blood is the power and destiny of the United States(Aztlan) and not the foreign Europeans(AMERICANS). (These are not just radical ravings, these words come straight from official LA RAZA and MEChA sites at Georgetown University, the University of Texas, UCLA, University of Michigan and numerous other universities.)

Besides AMNESTY for millions, the DREAM Act is unacceptable because the numerous rewards for the children of ILLEGAL ALIENS is detrimental to AMERICA'S CHILDREN, irregardless of how many times unethical Durbin changes it. For most middle and working class families, paying for college is one of the biggest concerns. A slot at a state university, where tuition is heavily subsidized, is for many families the best, if not the only, viable option. These limited seats at public universities and colleges are becoming ever more highly prized and admission is often as competitive as it is to Ivy League schools. Thus, with the admissions of a newly legalized DREAM Act beneficiaries to a state university...AMERICAN CHILDREN that should be in these seats, will NOT BE ALLOWED the option of receiving an education or they will be at a severe disadvantage in that state. AMERICAN CHILDREN who have worked just as hard, has just as admirable goals and dreams, and whose family didn’t break the law."

The Amnesty battle (DREAM ACT) will be going full force this weekend and on Monday or Tuesday. The Open Borders Lobby has thousands of ILLEGAL ALIEN students lobbying the Senate today. These students are their best weapons because they tug at sympathy votes and are funded by millions of dollars from racist organizations like LA RAZA aka "The Race" and big corporations.

These ILLEGAL ALIEN students EXPECT AMERICANS to continue to pay for their education and are eager to be used as political pawns in this battle. Go to ALIPAC and help support(not with your money, just a little time) your children and the rest of AMERICA'S children.

Posted by alejandro on September 22, 2007 at 5:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enough!! Ice needs to do their job and deport the illegal alien (criminal)and the church needs to pay the bill for breaking U.S. law.

The DREAM Act:The BETRAYAL OF AMERICA'S CHILDREN BY AMERICAN SENATORS

With the DREAM Act that is being voted on Monday... our NATION and Americans are once again being betrayed by corrupt and deceitful Senators, such as Feinstein, Salazar, Kennedy, Hagel etc., who have sold their greedy souls to racist organizations such as LA RAZA, whose motto is "For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing." and MEChA, who declare that their blood is the power and destiny of the United States(Aztlan) and not the foreign Europeans(AMERICANS). (These are not just radical ravings, these words come straight from official LA RAZA and MEChA sites at Georgetown University, the University of Texas, UCLA, University of Michigan and numerous other universities.)

Besides AMNESTY for millions, the DREAM Act is unacceptable because the numerous rewards for the children of ILLEGAL ALIENS is detrimental to AMERICA'S CHILDREN, irregardless of how many times unethical Durbin changes it. For most middle and working class families, paying for college is one of the biggest concerns. A slot at a state university, where tuition is heavily subsidized, is for many families the best, if not the only, viable option. These limited seats at public universities and colleges are becoming ever more highly prized and admission is often as competitive as it is to Ivy League schools. Thus, with the admissions of a newly legalized DREAM Act beneficiaries to a state university...AMERICAN CHILDREN that should be in these seats, will NOT BE ALLOWED the option of receiving an education or they will be at a severe disadvantage in that state. AMERICAN CHILDREN who have worked just as hard, has just as admirable goals and dreams, and whose family didn’t break the law."

The Amnesty battle (DREAM ACT) will be going full force this weekend and on Monday or Tuesday. The Open Borders Lobby has had thousands of ILLEGAL ALIEN students lobbying the Senate for the last week. These students are their best weapons because they tug at sympathy votes and are funded by millions of dollars from LA RAZA aka "The Race" and big corporations.

These ILLEGAL ALIEN students EXPECT AMERICANS to continue to pay for their education and are eager to be used as political pawns in this battle. Go to ALIPAC and help support(not with your money, just a little time) your children and the rest of AMERICA'S children.

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 22, 2007 at 5:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Folks this bill, it's a symbolic gesture, no more, no less. In a way, it's kind of like the Church's establishment of sanctuary. A symbol.

It would be fair to note that thus far, the Federal Government seems unwilling to violate the sanctity of "church sanctuary" not just here in Simi Valley but also elsewhere including Chicago where a similar situation went on for quite a long time. Finally the offending young Mexican women left the sanctuary and she was promptly arrested and I believe is facing deportation action.

The same thing will likely happen to Liliana in Simi Valley.

This "bill" will not ever be paid. The city of Simi Valley will be lucky if there aren't legal fees defending this blatantly political action by Miller.

Undocumented workers are a problem, I agree, but again, nothing done by the City of Simi Valley, almost none of the comments by previous posters, NONE of the "hate talk" will EVER be a part of any solution.

Posted by dailykos on September 22, 2007 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Church was obligated by law to announce that they were allowing Liliana and her son to live there. People keep missing that point. They have broken no law and have been very careful to remain that way.

The Church has not been found guilty of any crime. Paul Miller has every right to ask ICE to do their job, but ICE has already told them they are not planning on doing anything. If the law says they have no problem with what the church is doing, the mayor has no right to bill them.

The mayor knows he is going to lose. Everyone knows he is going to lose. So why support endless and needless lawsuits? He is going to waste tax player dollars.

Posted by dailykos on September 22, 2007 at 6:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It shouldn't be too hard to find out who did it since he has admitted to it.

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p...

The police ( $40,000 of them apparently) asked him and his allies not to stand where he was standing but he refused and something happened. What happened is hard to determine, but it is police practice to ask different sides in a protest to stand apart. It is sad Save our State keeps saying they want laws enforced, yet won't listen to the police.

Feel free to read their websites full of attack language towards gays, migrants, and others. They even compare illegal aliens to Satan.

I would want Paul Miller to be against this type of talk and condemn it.

Posted by allblacks on September 22, 2007 at 7:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Funny that a fan of the DK would be astonished at someone being compared to Satan, since it seems that anyone that disagrees with them is labelled Satan, the devil, Hitler, Stalin, etc.

Posted by dailykos on September 22, 2007 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The church is not breaking the law. In no way are they not cooperating with ICE. If they were hiding Liliana or announced they would engage in civil disobedience they would be breaking the law. ICE can come to the church.

Harboring refers to issues like hiding from detection or helping someone hide from the police.

Liliana deserves her day in court to be held to account if they want to sentence her, deport her, or allow her to go home to her family which includes hard working, tax paying, morally upstanding citizens. She has a legal right to petition for this off of many standards including the fact she is married to a US citizen.

Until the federal government actually says anything to the church saying it is breaking the law many of you could be libeling the church. If the government never does say it is against the law many of you are opening yourself up to the discovery process be stating as a matter of fact the church is breaking the law.

Maybe your thoughts should focus on looking at the law, not guessing what it says.

Posted by dailykos on September 22, 2007 at 8:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do you think illegal immigrants are in league with Satan? The protesters websites have comments like that. They are also filled with attacks on gays. The far right doesn't want solutions, it wants to attack.

Posted by Face on September 23, 2007 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The right doesn't want solutions?? I don't think national sovereignity is a right or left issue really. That being said, there has never been one solution posted by a "immigration advocate". I have begged and pleaded to be schooled on their solutions in these forums and have never been offered one. But poor try on making it look like a bunch of homophobes are mysteriously behind wanting a sovereign nation dailykos.

Posted by dailykos on September 23, 2007 at 9:38 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Try and make it look like? A SOS leader was shouting anti-gay slurs on the streets of Simi Valley and on his website.

Sorry, but the facts are the facts.

Posted by dailykos on September 23, 2007 at 9:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

But since you wanted a solution? How about we guard the border, deport all serious criminal aliens, investigate gangs for their citizenship status, help employers determine the legality of their workers and then move to prosecute the offenders starting with the largest corporations including those that recruit in Mexico.

After that we focus on improving the economic system in Mexico so that they are better trading partners and their people have hope.

We also need a program to bring in workers to America and give the best of them a path to citizenship. Kind of like the military does with our patriotic green card soldiers.

Also, we condemn anti-gay, anti-immigrant, racist groups that march in the streets to create confrontations.

Posted by hamskid on September 23, 2007 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't want a sanctuary church.
I don't want a sanctuary city.
I don't want a sanctuary government.
I don't want the ACLU and what they stand for
I don't want Mayor Miller to back down for all the above reasons.
We need to enforce our laws and secure our borders.

Posted by Face on September 23, 2007 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dailykos, thank you for the first "immigrant advocate" slant. I am interested, how do we 'guard' the border? How do we determine 'serious' criminal aliens vs. 'non-serious?'. Investigate gangs for citizenship status, how do we do that? Large Corporations recruiting in Mexico? I really don't think that is happening. I think guarding the border would be to erect a ditch and fence system and have armed hard points. A National ID card would take care of determining who is legal and who is not. The Alien Resident (green) card is loaded with anti-forgery, tamper proof technology, perhaps a National ID card built on this technology is what we need. As far as improving the economy of Mexico... that government is founded on Napoleonic Land Baron corruption. They have tons of oil and sell us most of it, but it doesn't get to the people. Their government must be changed through revolution.

Posted by soyculay on September 23, 2007 at 11:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know about all you non-tolerant people, but I'm standing on God's side. There's been plenty of laws in our nations history to see that our laws are not always fair or just. Does Mayor Miller go to the same church as the Grand Dragon were somehow there bible ok's the behavior of hate and intolerance.

Posted by littlepowers on September 24, 2007 at 12:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

These are 2 separate issues. Immigration and violation of freedom of assembly.

Don't mix the 2. The bill is unjust.

I decline to speak about the other issue.
Because it doesn't change the fact that the bill is unjust.

If this bill is charged, I hope the people give the city hell.

Posted by Face on September 24, 2007 at 12:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Are we to tolerate disolution of our sovereignity. I am not standing on God's side because I wish a sovereign nation? God wishes that our borders be removed? Where is this in the Good Book?

Posted by JimmyM on September 24, 2007 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For years now the Mayor and the City Council have been running this city as if it were their own exclusive country club. I am not the least bit surprised that Mayor Miller now believes he has the authority to decide what is acceptable speech here in Simi Valley and to punish anyone who dares to question his authority.

Posted by dailykos on September 24, 2007 at 9:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Nice to see the mayor wasted a week of our time on a bill that not a single person I have talked to ever thinks would be collected. Imagine if he spent that time researching ways to keep the peace between protesters or ways to have police officers train with ICE.

Posted by mtnbkr on September 25, 2007 at 8:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A...American
C...Criminal
L...Lovers
U...United