Posted by rjlebeck on September 19, 2007 at 6:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Simi Vally Mayor Paul Miller is quoted as saying that (t)his "city is not going to be known as a 'sancuary city.'" Thank you Mr. Mayor for your vigilance and your desire to preserve Simi Valley's image as a white-racist, minority-hating enclave of ignorant and intolerent people.

One question: When a police presence was required to keep an eye on protesters at the Reagan Library with the appearance of Karl Rove, did the city bill the library?

Posted by simivalleystar on September 19, 2007 at 6:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The protesters (ALL OF THEM) are the ones who should be paying this bill, not the church!

What illigal drugs are you on, Mr. Mayor?

Posted by laura_54321 on September 19, 2007 at 6:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow. So all I have to do to bankrupt an organization I don't like is organize a protest and publicize it in advance. The city of Simi valley will take care of the rest.

This is disgusting. I hope that locals of conscience will come together and raise the money for this "bill", $40,000 is a frightening number for a small church.

Posted by KathrynAsh on September 19, 2007 at 6:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I support Mayor Miller's decision 100%. The tax payers of Simi Valley don't need to foot the bill for a church's political statements. If they choose to flaunt breaking the law, then they need to pay the consequences.

Posted by Ventura22 on September 19, 2007 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This was a result of unlawful activity by the church, therefore they should pay for it. This has nothing to do with any constitutional rights. I guess the church will think more next time before making poor choices.

Posted by janusjuris on September 19, 2007 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is weasels like Rabbi John Sherwood who always fall back on declarations of "RACISM!!!!" when they can't win the argument with logic and truth. It is not about RACE, it is about the LAW. Guys like Sherwood should be included in the deportation proceedings when they finally yank her out of there...

Posted by Nosmo_King on September 19, 2007 at 7:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jw1000, Karl Rove wasn't breaking the law. If you start a forrest fire and are caught, you get the bill for the cost of fighting it. This church is harboring a law breaker and should pay a price for its actions.

Posted by moondoggie on September 19, 2007 at 7:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

When hundreds of anti-abortion people picketed the Reagan Library when Senator Kennedy spoke, did the Library get a bill from the City?

Is it a crime, federal or State, for a church to permit an illegal immigrant to stay in the church? Was it done in a secretive manner or was the public informed? Is the woman a federal fugitive? I suggest the Church has broken no law and INS has the right to go to the Church and arrest the woman. Why isn't INS willing to do so? The answers are simple. Simi officials are making up the law as they go to pander to the local outspoken majority. The Church has broken no laws. The Church has not hired an illegal immigrant nor is it harboring a fugitive. The City has a right to try to assess the protesters through the permitting process, but it will fail in its attempts to collect money from the Church. It is a sad day in Simi Valley to see the City become nothing but a right wing political organization instead of a City.

Posted by Mongo on September 19, 2007 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

How hypocrite of the mayor.
Why doesn't he bill the vigilante idiots that created the disturbance, instead of the church?
I tell you why: because he wants to score a cheap political point.

Of course that "bill" will never be collected, and hopefully he gets smacked with some fine himself.

Mongo
www.itsnofun.com

Posted by cdecker1 on September 19, 2007 at 7:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Looks like the city of Simi is going to be back on the map for stupidity. First O.J. now this. You can't fine the church.

Posted by janusjuris on September 19, 2007 at 7:42 a.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by jay3777 on September 19, 2007 at 7:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I can't believe what the Mayor of Simi Valley is doing. This is not a law thing, it's a human rights thing. Would you guys be happy if was deported and left to starve? Sounds like a Salem witch hunt to me. I know that law is the law, but is the law over a human being for the desire to make it right in this country. I understand that people need to come here legally, but is that really the issue or does race have to do everything with it? Because, if that is the case, then we all need to pack our bags and let the Native Americans tell us who stays or leaves in this land.

Posted by RNPearson on September 19, 2007 at 7:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

INS should go after the illegal immigrant criminal. Law enforcement should arrest the leaders of the church for harboring a criminal. Otherwise when someone commits a crime, such as bank robbery or auto theft, all they have to do is run to a church for sanctuary. A criminal is a criminal no matter what crime they commit.

Posted by kelly13 on September 19, 2007 at 7:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I support the mayor 100% and it gives me hope to see someone enforcing our laws and using common sense.

Posted by byteme on September 19, 2007 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"I support the mayor 100%" give me break! If it happened to someone you know and loved I doubt you would feel the same way.

Posted by janusjuris on September 19, 2007 at 8:20 a.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 19, 2007 at 8:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just a few points...

First, Liliana, whose actions may be criminal, is not a criminal. She has not, so far as I can see, been charged with a crime, nor had her "day" in court where charges could be proven.

Second, the Church did not request Police or any other services.

Third, an organization "Save Our State" gathered up protesters from around the LA region for the purpose of creating a civil disturbance.

Lastly, this amounts to selective enforcement of the law by the City of Simi Valley, and an administrative decision by a Mayor and Council with an expectation to gain by that decision.

Is it racist? Probably not, but it still stinks as much.

The OJ/Simi connection is blatantly absurd, those jurors came from all over the County, Simi was just the unlucky host of that farcical trial.

Is the Reagan library even within Simi city limits?

But there is a disturbing progression here. Lawful protests threaten to turn to mob rule and now the mechanism of the state is being used to single out dissenting opinion holders and penalize them, while the mob that created the threat is not held accountable at all.

If a homeowner in Simi Valley hosts a rowdy party, and the neighbors complain and call the police...should the complainers be billed for that service?

We already have so-called "Minutemen", can Brown Shirts be far behind?

Posted by jay3777 on September 19, 2007 at 8:39 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What a lot of you don't understand is that this issue is looking more and more like a Civil Rights movement. The Blacks where not allowed into White only schools in the South and that was the law. Blacks had to sit in the back of the bus until one brave soul broke that law, in which she was arrested, BUT!! she became a national symbol for equal justice for all. So, we come back to the issue of law breaker or human rights. This whole deport the illegals reminds me of how the blacks where treated in the South. And in those rallies against the Blacks, people had signs that read: 'Go home N#%@R', 'Go back to Africa'. It is funny how history repeats itself.

Posted by Nosmo_King on September 19, 2007 at 8:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It was the Rodney King et al trial in Simi Valley. OJ's trial was in L.A.

Posted by garion246 on September 19, 2007 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The billing the church is silly and somewhat childish. The church has the right to free speech. The protesters have the right to protest the church. It’s the job of police to “serve and protect.” It is the cities job to provide a means for public protection and law enforcement. I see no reason for billing the church other than a childish move on the Mayors part to speak his opinion and (or) help out city budget problems. The city should be on the phone to the INS or border patrol to get them to take action and control of the situation.

It was a good idea to have the police present to prevent things from getting out of hand especially with a volatile subject. The police presence does appear to of been beneficial. If any of the protesters were violent they should be arrested and charged.

Although I applaud the church for their action on human rights, I believe their in the wrong here. I have no problem with the church assisting the immigrant for a life in her home country, preparing for deportation, and assuring humanitarian treatment during the deportation process. Other than that, the church should turn the immigrant over to the authorities.

Posted by gayala70 on September 19, 2007 at 9:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Here she is; out of work and unemployed while others are footing the bill for diapers, formula, shelter etc. and the illegals wonder why the citezens are angry. What did the church think was goiong to happen? Oooohh yeah a peacful protest, the police not to do their job? At any and all protest their is a hightened police awareness. Give them the bill.

Posted by Face on September 19, 2007 at 9:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Excellent! Yes, charge the law breaking church! There should be an announced protest there every weekend until they have to be closed down due to bankruptcy. I see the same old folks are accusing law abiding citizens of being racist without any solution on their part (typical). The fact that Americans want a sovereign nation with laws is not racist or ugly. This is not to be compared with civil rights or anything of the sort. This is simply, the right of a nation to have soveriegn borders and to have legal immigration vs. illegal immigration. If we are not going to enforce our nations laws, why should any of us obey any of them? Those who want to erase the borders of this nation.. just how do we go about doing that? I am still waiting for someone on the other side to provide a solution (hello, anybody out there?).

Posted by janusjuris on September 19, 2007 at 9:20 a.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by GuideDog on September 19, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Slippery slope here?

For example: extra police are called in to keep order at a protest against the current law of the land by a right-to-life group outside a local hospital, clinic or non-profit office in the city. Will the city bill the group protesting group because it opposes the law? Or the organization that is the object of the protest because their actions are seen as precipitating the protest and subsequent police deployment?

Just curious: are similar bills being sent every time a group's action or event would cause police or public employees overtime: a 10K charity run, a chamber of commerce parade, carnival or street fair, a CIF championship high school football team's playoff at a local school, etc.?

Could taxpayers see this "rent-a-cop" approach as a way of lowering the local tax burden? It might be something the city council could discuss as a way of lowering taxes. Think about it. Even if the courts ultimately rejected such action by the city as improper, it would make one helluva'n issue to include on council members' campaign resumes!

Posted by gayala70 on September 19, 2007 at 9:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Why do so many of you keep talking about civil rights? Civil rights are reserved for citezens. She is not a citezen, so what rights does she have? NONE! Here we go again about the race issue. Isn't that getting a bit old. It's about immigration no matter where you come from.

Posted by Nosmo_King on September 19, 2007 at 9:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Janet Reno wouldn't have let this situation get this far. When she was Attorney General she sent in agents with automatic weapons to get Elian Gonzales. When Koresh was held up in his own church..they burned it down! Clinton and Reno, I never thought I'd miss them...ah the good ole days..

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Congratulations Mayor Miller, your actions would have made Harrod and Pontius Pilate proud! For the people of the church remember the words of Christ that your kingdom is not of this earth. Revelations tells us that at the end of days the church and those that follow christ will be under attack. Why has Mayor Miller sided with skinheads over the followers of Jesus Christ? If we follow the Mayors logic then the next time a bank is robbed the police will send a bill to the bank for their services. Also, how in the world does it cost $40,000 for 15 cops to spend three hours at a protest? If the church is breaking the law why didn't the mayor have them arrested? Answer, because they are not breaking the law. The INS knows the woman is there but they have done nothing. The Mayor and Council have shamed the entire City with this action. My prayers are with the followers of Christ in the church!

Posted by jd1511 on September 19, 2007 at 9:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Illegal is illegal.
The church is engaged in an illegal activity.
The church was asked by the city not to engage in this activity and the refused.
Hats off to the Mayor and the city of Simi.
This is not a civil rights issue.
BTW jay3777
Blacks were in this country legally,
And were being mistreated.
They did not sneak across the border.
Illegals can leave at any time, they have their own countries.
I do not believe it is a "race thing",
It has more to do with corporate greed and their addiction to slave labor.
And the Federal politicians that are addicted to corporate lobbyist money.
Some order must be restored, or we should have no laws at all.
Who gave this church the right to choose which laws they should be obeyed.
Jesus said give unto Caesar (the Government) that which is Caesar’s
And give unto the Lord that which is the Lord’s.
In other words stop playing politics with the Lord’s name.

Posted by sdetatae on September 19, 2007 at 9:35 a.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by francoa on September 19, 2007 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"No arrests were made — citizen or otherwise — but Naui Huitzilopochtli of Westminster, an immigration advocate, was writhing in pain after being sprayed in the face with a chemical agent, allegedly by an opposing protester. He was taken by ambulance to Simi Valley Hospital. Police said the incident is being investigated."

Where was the protection the church is going to be billed for?

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The California GOP hired an illegal alien as their CFO in 2001 and he worked for them until 2006, where were all you hypocrits then?

Posted by huntram on September 19, 2007 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

ICE should arrest Liliana and deport her. She IS a criminal, hence the word illegal!
Should the church be charged for a protest from another group?
NO! Otherwise any group could protest them just to bankrupt them. Not cool!
Should the pastor be arrested for harboring a criminal.
Yes..That is against the law.

Common Sense

Posted by gayala70 on September 19, 2007 at 9:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)

yes, they did hire an illegal, but it was a little different. He had already started the process of otaining a visa and there were political factors from the country he came from so the government gave him amnesty in which they had also given amnesty to thousands of immigrant back in the late 80's or early 90's no matter what country they came from. this stupid woman has never so much as tried to help herself. hence the fact that she never even attempted to apply.

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Liliana is married to an american and her children are americans, are family values protected by breaking up families? Arrest the pastor? Sure, why not, they crucified Jesus Christ for less than that, maybe the council can drag her up Mt McCoy and nail her to the cross, that would teach her about the penalty for following the teachings of Jesus!

Posted by bmclean , Moderator, on September 19, 2007 at 10:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The illegal working for the GOP was ordered deported in 2001 and kept working for the GOP until 2006, get the facts right!

Posted by cassandra on September 19, 2007 at 10:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Grandstand move, obviously won't hold up in court.

Garion is correct.

God, I'm really beginning to loathe the Simians.

Posted by Simivisitor on September 19, 2007 at 10:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Each and every single one of you who do not support the Mayor - SHAME, SHAME on you!! Finally, a courageous American elected official who refuses to PANDER to the illegal invasion!! Also according to US LAW, Liliana is a CRIMINAL! Besides unlawfully trespassing into this nation, she also purchases STOLEN identity! She is both an illegal trespasser (therefore a security risk since undocumented) and an identity THIEF!! This church does NOT follow the Bible!! For the Bible is about God's LAW! Therefore this church is immoral and irresponsibility!! Regarding the charges of racism - again SHAME on all of you for slandering your fellow American!! Americans against this church sanctuary come from all races and religions! Race has absolutely NOTHING to do with being against a lawbreaker!! For each person here crying racism..you are definitely part of the pandering problem!! If this nation turns to violence in the streets due to this illegal invasion, you are the ones that will have blood on your hands!! THANK YOU SIMI VALLEY MAYOR!! You are a TRUE elected American official!

Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on September 19, 2007 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We are a government of laws. Even though we may not agree with decisions made, we settle our issues in the courts and not through revolution. The church, in this case, not only harbored an illegal immigrant but they invited problems by publically proclaiming their intent.

I can empathize with Liliana, but it is she who charted the course that led her to her current predicament.

If we obey only the laws we agree with, chaos will reign. There are other avenues for change.

Posted by Nosmo_King on September 19, 2007 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks bmclean, good advice. I sure would like someone from ICE to comment. maybe you could send'em a link?

Posted by RealWorld805 on September 19, 2007 at 10:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You can't expect anything to happen when you announce that you are harboring an illegal alien. Of course there will be protestors and sure enough police will be there to oversee things. If the church kept quiet, things (fines$$) probably would have been different. Maybe this is what the church wanted. You are naive to think things will blow over when you have conflicts between church and government and a liberal issue in a conservative city. This issue is going to get blown up and little Simi Valley doesn't want that, hence conservative. I think this fine is more of a principal statement than anything financial.

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 11:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Shame? No, shame on you! These people are following the teachings of Jesus Christ, if that is not popular, so be it. In terms of being illegal, why doesn't the INS go and arrest her? The people at the church said they would not stop them and they were public about her being there. In terms of the Mayor, if they are doing something illegal why did he not have the police arrest them? In six years of total control of Washington what did Bush and the GOP do about immigration? Answer, nothing! If you people want to side with the skinheads and hatemongers who came from outside of Simi for the protest over the followers of Christ in the church be my guest. Doing what you feel is right and just in not always popular, and as Christ found out it can get you crucified.

Posted by Jacksprat on September 19, 2007 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What would yoiu all be writing if Ice armed to the teeth had gone into the church and pick up the women. She was under a court order for deportation, which means that when ICE get her she will be on a bus to Mexico, or where ever she came from.
The church is trying to make a statment about our immigration laws, however like so many times they are going about it the wrong way, by breaking the law. The Blacks in Georgia protested the segeration, but they did not break the law, and they were arrested. Their point was made, but you don't make one by breaking the law.
It is too bad that this lady has to be deported, but that was her choice when she came across the border with out followeing the law. So now she has to pay for her actions, like any one else who breaks the law. Too bad she now has a family here but that is the way the ball bounces.
As far as the church paying for the police they are the ones that cause the problem so again you pay for your action.

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 19, 2007 at 11:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Oops! Got it re: OJ/Rodney King!

Here's something though...just what were all those cops doing when the one protester got hit with some sort of chemical spray? Out eating donuts?

Under investigation? For something that happened right in front of them?

Since "protection" is what is being billed (of course this has nothing to do with political intimidation by the city government) and since "protection" seems to have been spotty at least...seems like Naui Huitzilopochtli has the beginnings of a case against the City of Simi Valley.

Forty thousand in damages oughta square things up.

Posted by TheSportsLogoPundit on September 19, 2007 at 11:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I support the elimination of the tax exempt status for churches, temples and mosques that get involved politically. That sounds like a great idea. Please, push that idea as much as you can.

Go ahead and take the United Church of Christ down, and then go after Jerry Falwell's Thomas Road Baptist Church, the Church of Latter Day Saints, the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and let's keep going. Any church that tells their parisioners how to vote or think politically should pay taxes.

Be careful what you wish for.

Posted by Face on September 19, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lots of posts.. still no solutions from the other side... why is that?

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Was Christ making a political statement when he prevented the prostitute from being stoned? What was it he said, "Let ye among you who is without sin cast the first stone." I'm sure all you bloggers who cheat on your taxes, speed down the highway etc, turn yourselves in for prosecution the way you want this woman brought to justice.

Posted by TheSportsLogoPundit on September 19, 2007 at 11:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Face99 - There are no solutions to this problem. Illegal immigration is one of the most complex, circular issues that we face. It isn't even a liberal or conservative issue as both groups have people on both sides for so many different reasons that it becomes mind-boggling. No matter what happens there will be massive, probably negative consequences. It's just a huge mess.

Posted by FedUp on September 19, 2007 at 11:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"If you people want to side with the skinheads and hatemongers who came from outside of Simi for the protest over the followers of Christ in the church be my guest."

it is comments like this that really get under my skin. so 9 skinheads turned up to join the protest. SOS absolutely abhores racism of any sort, and therefore, told the skins to take a hike. while I hate racism of any sort, the skins had a right to be there.
so many people have made comments about the group was from outside of simi valley. what about Noe Huitzilopochtli who was hit in the face with some sort of a chemical agent? I dont see anyone condemning him for protesting outside of his city. I dont think Westminster is a suburb of Simi Valley. if it is, I apologize....
the church is breaking the law. they are harboring an illegal, and worse yet, they are flaunting it in everyones face. once the church made a political statement by harboring this illegal, they should have lost any opportunity for tax exemption.
I applaud Mr. Mayor, and I hope that the politicians all across the country see that this is what the people have voted for. politicians who lie to get in to office, and dont act on the will of the people should get deported along with the 20 million other illegals currently residing in our great nation.

Posted by hotwildflower on September 19, 2007 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with the mayor too, this church is assisting with an illegal act. They are making a political statement when there is to be a separation of church and state, they chose to act in this manner and it is going to cost them.

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 19, 2007 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Face correctly points out a lack of solutions, but seems to think solution finding is a one-sided process.

Part of the reason for that is the unwillingness of too many to compromise. That may sound simplistic, but that is what it comes down to.

Increased border surveillance, including in some cases, fences, is part of the answer.."liberals" may have to get used to that.

These people are basically here to work, and often at jobs Americans workers don't want, and at wages that American employers (and consumers) don't want to pay. Some sort of enlarged guest worker program seems indicated. "Conservatives" may have get over that.

We all need to stop using inflammatory language that is often misleading.

We need to stop slamming any politician who seeks reasoned discussion and compromise.

Sadly, at the rate we're going, it doesn't seem likely any of that is going to happen any time soon.

Posted by RealWorld805 on September 19, 2007 at 11:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is in response to reading some of these posts...

Religion and politics get in the way of everything in today's society. It clouds people into thinking irrationally. It seems they make things worse rather than make things better. I am not giving examples on purpose. I'll leave that up to you... I'm sure you come up with a couple.

Posted by moondoggie on September 19, 2007 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Such Godly people who will turn against a church to get at one woman. Too bad they don't go after other criminals with such zeal. I drove by the protest and saw nice, well dressed, men and women holding hands with their children and shouting hate. What Godly people we have who gave of their Sunday to come to Simi Valley. And it was this that our City Council subsequently supported? Jesus would be so proud of our deeply religious protestors and local officials.

Posted by FedUp on September 19, 2007 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"shouting hate."

please tell me what they were shouting? I am very curious to know exactly what they were shouting.

when the illegal supporters sit on one side and call hispanics, blacks, asians and whites "racists", for wanting an illegal to be deported, I really would like to know where they get that idea...
the last time I checked, this was an immigration issue, not a race issue.

Posted by hotwildflower on September 19, 2007 at noon (Suggest removal)

Why is "illegal" always ignored when reading "illegal immigration" It amazes me how the word is simply dropped from the whole processing of the term.

Illegal is illegal is illegal no matter which way you look at it.

As I have said many times, come here legally and we say "welcome!". Come here illegally and expect to have free healthcare and so forth is a slap in the face to those who have come here legally an obeyed the laws.

Posted by JohnGC on September 19, 2007 at 12:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doc: It was Herod not Harrod.
…”For the people of the church remember the words of Christ that your kingdom is not of this earth. Revelations tells us that at the end of days the church and those that follow christ (sic) will be under attack”
And that applies to this law breaking, how?

… “are family values protected by breaking up families?”
And how are family values protected by her leaving her family in Mexico to come to the US illegally and poaching off the taxpayers, and then further by UCC using taxpayer dollars (via their 501C status) to provide her shelter?

“Arrest the pastor? Sure, why not, they crucified Jesus Christ for less than that, maybe the council can drag her up Mt McCoy and nail her to the cross, that would teach her about the penalty for following the teachings of Jesus!” And what Bible verse would you use to support that theorem? Please!

“Was Christ making a political statement when he prevented the prostitute from being stoned? What was it he said, "Let ye among you who is without sin cast the first stone."
HUH? If you choose to quote the Bible; and if you choose to cite the words of Christ, please at least use them in context and properly divide the Word.

Posted by cmdg60 on September 19, 2007 at 12:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good for our mayor, I support him 100%. Shame on this church for harboring illegal activity. If the church claims they are doing this to keep families together, they can send her and her baby back together to their country to be with the rest of their family (or are they here illegally as well?). I'm tired of watching our city go to squat. I've lived here for over 40 years and I'm watching it rapidly deteriorate with illegal imigrants who house multiple families in one single-family dwelling. Both sets of my grandparents, as well as my husband's grandparents were immigrants from other countries and they managed to come here legally not knowing a soul who spoke their laungage. They had to learn our language to work, and they did things the right way. The City of Simi Valley needs to step in and let them know it won't be tolerated. THANK YOU MAYOR MILLER!

Posted by kristin on September 19, 2007 at 12:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The key word is illegal. I back the Mayor 100% also. Why doesn't she become a legal citizen? I know a lot of people who went through the system to become a United States citizen. They tell me it's not very hard to do so. They are very proud of themselves and so am I. I don't believe this is racism. It's just a matter of accountability.

Posted by hotwildflower on September 19, 2007 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

so true, cmdg60, my grandfather came here not knowing English, learned it to work and when my dad asked him to teach him his language, he was told "no, you are in America, you speak English"

My husband's mother brought her children here legally and told them the same thing "you are in America, you speak English"

That mentality lead the kids to love their country and in my dad's case, fight for this country. Their parents viewed being an American as a priviledge, not a right...that mind set is what is causing so much anger towards these people. There refusal to adapt to American culture, it isn't to say give up their own, but adapt rather than forcing everyone else to adapt to them.

Posted by Face on September 19, 2007 at 12:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What is the solution provided by "immigration advocates"? I know of several solutions provided by "anti-illegal immigration advocates". I hear nothing from their side. Perhaps they blame the current napoleonic land-baron regime in Mexico that denies prosperity of its people and keeps oil profits to the elite? If so, then shouldn't we be talking about overthrowing the current regime in Mexico and putting the government there in the hands of the people?

Posted by daze805 on September 19, 2007 at 12:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jay3777 made a good point. I have been saying that all along. The hate and intolerance has been displayed before many many times.

Man simply does not learn his lesson.

Posted by cassandra on September 19, 2007 at 1:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The fingers in the dam aren't going to do it re: illegal immigration, but the commotion serves to keep people afraid. And fearful people don't think.

We need to do a better job at securing our border. No doubt about that. Somehow I don't think Liliana is a master crook or terrorist, however. And the church is not breaking the law. If it were, the cops could close it down, not just monitor the noisemakers.

What will work? I don't know but removing this person will not do it. Bringing our National Guard home to guard our own perimeter would help.

People can get downright shrill about language, but it's pointless. You want to sell stuff to people, you speak their language. My last fortune cookie was in Spanish on one side and English on the other. It's a done deal. Un trato hecho. All the laws we pass cannot stop the tide any more than old King Canute could command it.

And what pray tell is Our Culture? We are the world. We are humanity. (And an idiotic bunch we ALL are.) Every time our corporate controlled government fails at some bloody adventure, we get boatloads from everywhere to add to the great mix we already have. Why is Anglo culture more Ours than their culture?

At bottom, the root of the problem lies in south where native elites remain in power. supported by powerful US interests, and poor people are forced north to survive. Maybe that's where we should look for solutions, and maybe we should look at the ag bills coming our of our Congress as part of that review. (Yes, I know you can't make that connection because the corporate media have not made it for you and you don't read all that much.) But what your daddy told you might not suffice in the larger world.

Meanwhile, a wall doesn't do it for me. Something there is that doesn't love it. I'm afraid we're being walled in while we try to wall THEM out.

Posted by cowchip on September 19, 2007 at 1:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yea, Mayor! It's about time someone has the balls to stand up for our laws! If we are ever going to do anything about ILLEGAL immigration, we have to start somewhere...it's time to take out the trash.

Posted by ww on September 19, 2007 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Enough already! Repeal the 14th amendment. No benefits for illegals, stop educating their children. Deport! Deport! Deport! One Flag, One Language, One Country.
GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

Posted by eruiz on September 19, 2007 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow... Is Simi Valley really as redneck as it seems??? they sure like controversy...

Posted by Mr_E_Man on September 19, 2007 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Allow me to chime in for a moment.

1) Someone congratulated the mayor for not pandering to the "liberals." Doesn't it occur to you that by fining the church for the actions of people not associated with the church, the mayor is pandering to the anti-immigration crowd?

2) The protest was organized by "Save Our State," which failed to get permits prior to the event. Why are they not being fined for violating city ordinances and why are they not being billed for costs that they directly caused?

3) "Illegal" and "Criminal" do not hold the dsame definitions, so stop trying to confuse the two. "Illegal refers to something that is not in accordance with or is not authorized by law. "Criminal" refers to a person who has been convicted of violating a law or an act that directly violates a law.

I'm no fan of illegal immigration, but I'm even less of a fan of pandering and uneven application of the law.

If the city wants to fine the church, they should be sending at least half the bill to the organizers of the protest, along with a stiff fine for violating local event licensing ordinaces.

Otherwise, the city is basically saying that you don't have to obey the law if your actions are based on political motivations that the mayor approves of.

Posted by wiener on September 19, 2007 at 2:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Churches in this country have no special protective legal status, so there is nothing (other than public relations and political considerations) which would prevent the INS or the police from obtaining a warrant and entering the church and taking an illegal alien into custody for deportation. So if the police are convinced that a crime has been committed, and Simi Valley does not want to gain a reputation as a “sanctuary city” (in the Mayor’s words), why aren’t they acting?

Perhaps one reason is “selective law enforcement”. Given the vast numbers of other illegal aliens (or “undocumented immigrants”, whichever term you prefer), the INS and the City would be hard-pressed to explain why they are ignoring everyone else. Indeed, the most obvious explanation would be that Liliana and the Church were being targeted because they were vocal about their actions. Even if the government could prevail in court against that free speech argument, it would still look hypocritical for not similarly cracking down on others.

But that’s not the basis for Paul Miller’s $39,306 bill to the Church. That’s for law enforcement costs due to the presence of anti-illegal-immigration protesters. This is a classic example of a “heckler’s veto”, which the Supreme Court has long since ruled is unconstitutional. A group of protesters cannot get together and thereby create a danger of a violent clash so as to quash the free speech rights of the people they are protesting. Billing the targets of the protest would be granting the protesters a “heckler’s veto”.

This is not a new concept for Simi Valley. Back in 1992, following the acquittal of police officers for the beating of Rodney King, and following the resulting Los Angeles Riots, we had white supremacist Richard Barrett stage a couple of protest marches in Simi Valley. Barrett was a scam artist who had won a Supreme Court case (Forsyth County, Georgia v. The Nationalist Movement) in which the Court ruled that cities could not charge huge fees to cover police protection for unpopular groups which drew counter-protesters. Whenever a city tried such a tactic to block a march by Barrett, he’d sue the city and (acting as his own attorney) collect substantial attorney’s fees. Simi Valley had to let Barrett march, behind barbed wire and with hundreds of police to protect him from counter-protesters, without charging him for the City’s costs. But at least he didn’t win a lawsuit or pocket any fees, so it was ultimately a financial defeat for him. Simi Valley taught other cities how to wreck his scam, and he soon faded away.

If Mayor Paul Miller insists on trying to bill the Church for police protection, the courts will inevitably rule that the City is exercising an illegal heckler’s veto. Then Simi Valley will not only be out the cost of police protection, but it will be out tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal expenses. Is that what we want our tax dollars wasted on?

Posted by cassandra on September 19, 2007 at 2:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I think they don't read very well. Liliana is appealing her deportation. The church is giving her lodging while she does this. That is, while she goes through legal channels.

Now, I know we would all sleep sounder knowing she was locked up instead, while she continues this process. But if this were required, it would be done. Like, it's no secret she's in Simi, is it?

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What the Mayor is saying is that any group can show up anywhere and protest and the City can then bill those being protested for the cost of the police coming, even if they were not called, unless the Mayor as self appointed King, decides that he likes or dislikes their policies. I hope the church tears up the bill and then tells the City to take them to court where the City will lose big time. In terms of the protestors, the church also said they wanted no counter protest. I stand with the people in the church following the teachings of Christ, not with the skinheads and hatemongers who were shipped in from outside of Simi.

Posted by teckman on September 19, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Racism? How ridiculous. The issue here is someone has come into our contry illegally and now refuses to leave and wants a church to break the law and harbor them. She should just leave.

Imagine as an American entering another country illegally, then when they tell you to leave, staying and going into a church and ask them to hide you and break the law. Our country is much too lenient in regards to allowing people from other countries to tell us what to do. Anyone entering our country without permission, illegally, should be prepared to face the consequences if caught.

Posted by FedUp on September 19, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doc - when you say this: "not with the skinheads and hatemongers who were shipped in from outside of Simi."

I do hope you are talking about the illegal immigrant supporters as being the hatemongers. after all, if they did not show up, there would not have been a racially motivated insult fest going back and forth.
if you are not including them in this statement of yours, I will just assume that you are a hypocrite.

Posted by Comments on September 19, 2007 at 2:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tom Johnston for mayor!!!

Posted by intocable_lopez on September 19, 2007 at 2:38 p.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 2:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I include all the protestors. The issue here is not the illegal immigrant, go back and read the story, the issue is trying to bill the church for police services they did not ask for. But I also think anyone who has broken the law before (taxes, speeding, you name it) and they did not turn themselves in and they are calling for her arrest are also hypocrits. "Let ye among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

Posted by VenturaCountyGuy on September 19, 2007 at 2:45 p.m.

(This thread was removed by the site staff.)

Posted by cheese94000 on September 19, 2007 at 2:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let me explain the diffrence in a legal immagrant and a alien immagrant for those who have trouble understanding the situation here. Legal immagrant who come from their country have money and alien immagrants dont just like in our county u have money you need a passport but if you are broke like 1/2 of America you never think of one.

Posted by translations on September 19, 2007 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Simi Valley City Council is commiting a vile attack on freedom of association and freedom of expression by billing the church for services. It has no business trampling on the Constitution to coerce the church into compliance with the Council's political agenda. What a disgrace!

Posted by brooke2 on September 19, 2007 at 2:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Re: Doc (9:31 am)

Speaking of logic, how is Mayor Miller siding with skinheads rather than followers of Jesus Christ? Do you mean to say that all followers of Jesus Christ support violating U.S. immigration laws?

I don't your logic in using a robbed bank for your example because a bank open for business is not breaking any laws.

Furthermore, I believe it is ICE that has the authority to arrest the illegal alien. Local law enforcement should have the authority to arrest the reverend, but that may need to be clarified because of the emotional nature of this issue.

Posted by cassandra on September 19, 2007 at 2:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

They didn't get required permits? You mean they . . .gasp . . . broke the law?!!!

Posted by siberiantrio on September 19, 2007 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The fact of the matter is, the protesters would not have shown up AT ALL had the church not been harboring an illegal immigrant. The church was a direct cause of this.
Could you imagine the outcome had there not been any officers there to supervise? This protest would've fledged out into a full on riot.
I can see the article in the Star now, "Church suing Simi Valley Police Department for not providing law enforcement."
If this woman wants to apply for legal status, that's great. She can do it in her home country though.
I back Mayor Paul Miller 100%. If I were a resident of Simi Valley, I certainly would not want my tax dollars fronting the bill for a Church who's set on making a political statement. They reap what they sow.

Posted by RelaxPeople on September 19, 2007 at 3:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Could you imagine the outcome had there not been any officers there to supervise? This protest would've fledged out into a full on riot. "

based on the picture of the cops in the articele i highly doubt it.

Posted by siberiantrio on September 19, 2007 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Relaxe, are you implying that the individual who was spayed with a chemical agent was NOT the result of heightened tension at this protest?

Posted by simivalleystar on September 19, 2007 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

siberiantrio: "If I were a resident of Simi Valley, I certainly would not want my tax dollars fronting the bill for a Church who's set on making a political statement."

I am a Simi Valley resident. I am appauled at the mayor and his linchmen making a fool out of the city government in his childish display. I pay the taxes that provide the funds to pay him and the rest of the city government. I am angry at him puting my tax dollars at risk of lawsuit, by making a fool out of themselves in this obviously political grandstanding. The church made no political statement. The protesters did.

Besides, the police are being paid by me (and my fellow residents). Do any of you think for a minute that, if the city WERE to collect this fee, that ANY of us residents would receive any refunds? How can the city justify their attempt to be double paid?

I am ashamed to be a resident of this city today, and embarrassed by the actions of our city officials, Mr Miller in particular. This city's government is a farce.

Posted by FedUp on September 19, 2007 at 3:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Some of you act like you are so important. Well you're not. Pretty soon you'll be dead and no one will care about your dumbass post. Life is too short to spend it worrying about illegal aliens. Think about it. Is your life going to improve at all by you getting people deported. I honestly don't think so."

I will admit I have made some dumb posts over the years, but this one takes the cake.
do you have children in schools? do you utilize healthcare??

thanks for clarifying Doc.
dont get me wrong. I honestly do not think that the city is going to see a dime from the church because of this. I think the mayor is trying to make a point though. that is, if you are going to be openly flaunting your little illegal sanctuary, then you are going to be held responsible for what happens because of it.
I have no idea if SOS obtained a permit to protest. did the illegal supporters get a permit?? they were protesting as well. do the people who gather on street corners with signs that are anti-war get permits? I seriously doubt it.

Posted by siberiantrio on September 19, 2007 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Simivalleystar, if you're that offended, perhaps you should move.

Posted by brooke2 on September 19, 2007 at 3:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Re: jay3777 (7:52 am)

You are right, the law is the law, which is the core issue of illegals invading our country by the millions.

We are a country governed by the rule of law. The illegal alien hiding in the church knowingly and willingly violated U.S. sovereignty by coming into this country. Illegal aliens are subject to deportation when caught by the authorities.

If you are concerned about human rights perhaps you should think about the billions of dollars that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers every year. The presence of illegal aliens is responsible for overcrowding our schools, they also contribute to the bankruptcy of hospitals in CA, the rising cost of health care, the increase in the depletion of our natural resources, increases in crime rates, traffic accidents, and the list goes on.

U.S. citizens behavior and actions are guided by our laws and those who don't comply pay the price, why should illegal aliens be any different?

And to get back to basics. Do you know what sovereignty is? No foreigner has a right to come into the USA without permission and the proper paperwork. Sovereign nations have the right to do that and with good reason. Our government's most important job is to protect its citizens.

You cannot correctly use Native Americans as an excuse in this argument because you are discounting over 200 years of history of our nation as a sovereign country.

Posted by byteme on September 19, 2007 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Man belongs to the Earth...Earth does not belong Man!

Posted by brooke2 on September 19, 2007 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Re jay3777 (8:39 a.m.)

You have a major problem with your theory that this issue is looking more and more like a civil rights issue. And that is, it is not a civil rights issue. It is a matter of the rule of law.

Have you forgotten that black people were US citizens? That is the difference jay, the crucial difference. Your argument is worthless.

Posted by Ulster on September 19, 2007 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doc,
They crucified Jesus for cheating on his taxes and beating his wife. What version of the bible are you reading? Perhaps his crucifixion was just a sadomasochists evening gone awry…although I’m curious how he got the third nail in by himself.

I believe in the laws our country has. The bible is neither a recognized nor enforceable book of laws (they’re merely guidelines – kind of like the pirates code). The basis for the City fining the church is not derived from a book of short stories, rather cost recovery practices that are utilized to prevent taxpayers from being burdened by an individuals disregard for the laws.

“I'm sure all you bloggers who cheat on your taxes, speed down the highway etc, turn yourselves in for prosecution the way you want this woman brought to justice.” Does Liliana cheat on her taxes? I would presume that the “bloggers” you are referring to in this message board, DO pay their share of taxes and that is, in part, why they agree with the mayor. Do you think Liliana turns herself in for speeding? Did she turn herself in for being an illegal immigrant?

Please refer to the post by steveburrati for relevant code.

Posted by rjlebeck on September 19, 2007 at 4:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Boston Tea Party occurred as a result of a stepped-up enforcement of the laws that had been on the books for years but previously ignored. The immigration laws that we have on the books now were similarly ignored by the federal government in spite of the outcry of millions of citizens for the last twenty years. What we have now is a mess and a miserable lack of leadership and direction from Washington. If the folks in D.C. continue to play politics with this issue and continue to pander to the xenophobes and other fear-based suburbanites then we are heading for massive civil disobedience and street riots that will make the Boston tea party look like....well, a real tea party. A compromise needs to be struck and as comprehensive legislation is enacted all the laws and the rules on the books can be reintroduced. Come on, anyone living in the shadows and working and paying taxes longer than Elton Gallegly has been our congressman should get some kind of a break!

Posted by Face on September 19, 2007 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am astounded by the number of people who would prefer we do not have a sovereign nation. I am still waiting on a solution from the "immigrant advocate" side. All I hear is that people who want our sovereignity to be enforced are racists or xenophobes... then.. no solution from the taunter. What do we do "immigrant advocates"? Status quo? What do we do I ask again... no answers from that crowd... because their answer would be to disolve our nationhood? I am not sure, but I have yet to read a response that represents a solution from those folks.

Posted by soyculay on September 19, 2007 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

If the city of Simi Valley felt that such a crime had been committed, why not just go in and arrest this person instead of letting the time card of the police run. This mayor is an idiot and just playing politics.

Posted by soyculay on September 19, 2007 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I wonder if the KKK had a rally in Simi Valley, would the mayor send the KKK the bill or the protesters?

Posted by FedUp on September 19, 2007 at 4:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the simi pd is not responsible for the deportation of illegals. this is the job of the ICE. now if the feds can get their act together, we might be able to start deporting some of them.
the mayor might be playing politics, but so is the church. and they started it. neener neener.

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 4:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

brooke2, if those in the church are breaking the law, why did the Mayor not have them arrested? What kind of Mayor would allow that? Maybe he did not because they are not breaking the law. Christians in Rome were breaking the law simply by being Christians, which was against the law, did they deserve arrest and death? When Churches hid slaves during slavery were they wrong? I realize the GOP only has this one issue to run on, but if you read the story again you will see the issue here is the Mayor trying to extort 40k from the church for services they did not ask for, the issue is not the immigrant.

Posted by wiener on September 19, 2007 at 5:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

soyculay said: "I wonder if the KKK had a rally in Simi Valley, would the mayor send the KKK the bill or the protesters?"

Read my above post (at 2:12 pm). That effectively happened back in 1992, with the minor difference that it was the "Nationalist Movement" instead of the KKK. The City would have loved to send Richard Bennett a bill, or better yet to have charged him a huge up-front fee for insurance and police protection to prevent him from marching. But it couldn't because of prior Supreme Court rulings. Nor could it bill "Neighbors Against Nazis" who were using Bennett as an excuse to hold a counter-protest, to get publicity and advance their own agenda.

The reality is that police protection is an ongoing expense that is spread among the taxpayers. Most of the police officers who were there would have been paid anyway; they'd just have been patrolling elsewhere in the city. Sometimes the cost spikes up a bit, due to overtime or other unusual expenses. But that's just the "cost of doing business" for a city police department. The circumstances under which the city can recover the costs of police protection are very rare, and this isn't one of them.

Posted by rjlebeck on September 19, 2007 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To Face99 and others:

Here's the plan. [I actually have two plans but the other involves secession.]

First, seal the freakin' border with Mexico. In this case, good fences make good neighbors.

Secondly, repeal NAFTA!

Third, embrace the majority of people "illegal" or otherwise that are already our friends and neighbors. Deport those that spur requirements for citizenship or rob or render mayhem but do not turn away decent and productive people.

Next, support labor. Support hard work and pay people a decent wage for doing it.

Finally, reawaken the American consciousness of industry and shared dreams. We need to produce a lot more doctors and engineers and fewer prison gaurds and bean-counters. Because the captains of industry and their political serfs have sold the country down the river, the people need to take their government back. Politicians who would use this issue to inflame passions or to play wedge politics might see this thing blow up in their face if their not careful.

Therefore, the people need to turn tin-eared incumbents out of office or impeach them and make it the peoples' business and not just business as usual.

There's your plan.

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 19, 2007 at 6:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My...My...what an interesting thread this has been...

Again...most of the posters here have an extreme point of view.

Given the situation, we aren't going to find solutions this way.

I'd guess that two thirds of the previous posts go to the "hate talk" or "dumb talk" catetgory. None of this will lead to a solution or even an attempt at one. Not that these posts really represent much more than those of us with the spare time and money to fool around on the Internet.

Again...moderate and rational thought may get us through this...sound bytes and histrionics won't.

It's phunny really, but most of the posters here will NOT be part of any viable solution...and never will be unless this nation descends to the "brown shirt" mentality.

Posted by cassandra on September 19, 2007 at 6:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm in favor of protecting our borders from illegal entry. I've even written an editorial about it; published too.

So why am I annoyed by this outpouring? (Besides the obvious, bigotry, hatred and egregious logic) "taking out the trash"--ugly "the number of people who would prefer we did not have a sovereign nation." --gross overstatement, among many such. Scapegoating up the ying yang.

No, it's something more fundamental nibbling at the edges of consciousness.

There is enough BS here to fuel a thousand compost heaps. People keep repeating the same assertions contrary to fact and contrary to common experience as though repetition would make them true.

"We are a law abiding nation" Well, we have lots of laws, but we break them. We always have.

We were born as a nation in law breaking. It's been one of our most enduring and in sometimes our most endearing qualities. The illegals should fit right in.

Boston Tea Party, tar and feathering stamp tax dealers, Shay's Rebellion, the Sooners, Thoreau sitting out his tax rebellion in protest of the Mexican War and subsequent land grab, the Underground Railroad, bootleggers and speakeasies, the Selma March, the hippies and the marijuana culture, Arcata nation, the Sopranos, the Yes Men, and on and on.

Moreover, everybody secretly knows that the law usually reflect the interests of the dominant group in society rather than any notion of justice or the common good. Otherwise Monsanto would be lose lawsuits for patent infringement and corporations would not be persons in terms of free speech. (Remember Jim Crow and sodomy statutes? Remember Comstock Laws?) Sometimes the law really is an ass.

We also know the cops are put in the middle. They don't make laws; they have to enforce them. And most of the time we want them to. But this arrangements makes them the instrument of the dominant group and they don't like the odium this exposes them to. Who would?

Thus, cops historically abuse strikers, protesters of any sort, and anyone else that cause them problems. Now they are handing the bill for protection to those who potentially need the protection! Buena suerte! as they say in Oxnard.

When all the high flown and essentially empty rhetoric is done, maybe somebody whose feet actually touch the ground can stir the discussion back to what a couple of people asked before--what can be done to stop the flood of illegal immigration at the border? How do we get control of our borders? What combination of things actually might work?

Somehow I don't think the answer lies in hassling Liliana.

Posted by moondoggie on September 19, 2007 at 6:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Pro or con immigration aside, please tell me what law the church was/is breaking? Providing housing to an illegal immigrant is not a crime. Hiring an illegal immigrant is a crime. Harboring a fugitive is a crime. The church went public with its housing plan and agreed to let law enforcement into the church to arrest the fugitive. This is not a crime. So, my right wing fanatical friends, what is the crime? And if there was not a crime committed, then where in the hell does the Simi Valley City Council come off sending a bill? Just who is making the political statement? I suggest it is the City Council more so than the church.

Posted by ironwoman on September 19, 2007 at 7:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Church has no business harboring immigrants. There is a term called "separation between church and state". Certainly doesn't appear that it's being followed. The Church is not being charged for harboring an illegal immigrant. They created a disturbance. If the City wants to bill them, so be it. It's their right. You people that disagree with this and "assume" that the City is racist and minority "haters" are creating your own delusions.

Posted by Lilathe on September 19, 2007 at 7:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Harboring and giving aid to an illegal alien is a felony. All costs incurred during the commission of a felony can be billed to the person(s) committing the felony. You know the old saying "you did the crime now you do the time" or "you paid the nickel you take the ride".
Much the same as if your house catches on fire, the fire department sends you a bill.

This church CHOSE to commit a FELONY. The taxpayers of the town do not choose to pay for the costs that were incurred because of the illegal acts of the church. The people of the town that support the felony the church is committing should dig down into their own pockets and pay for their beliefs, not ask the people that oppose criminal behavior to pay for it.

Other posters have brought up legal rallies or people legally speaking with proper permits in order. You cannot compare apples and oranges. Damages or the cost of police involved in the commission of a crime have nothing to do with damages or the cost of police involved when citizens are following the laws of their nation.

Dragging out the racist card and slapping it on the table has gotten so old it isn't even funny. You don't agree with harboring an invading army of illegal aliens? YOU RACIST.

Posted by Lilathe on September 19, 2007 at 7:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

GioSci10 - in answer to your question what law are they breaking
Federal Immigration and Nationality Act
Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii)

"Any person who . . . encourages or induces an alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or

* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or

* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Posted by MaximumBogosity on September 19, 2007 at 7:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I tire of people stating that illegal immigrants are a problem that we can't resolve.

We need to secure the border, with combat troops if necessary, not because of illegal immigration, but because of the threat of terrorism.

Yeah, deporting every illegal alien would be impractical... But we don't need to deport them.

For years, everyone has had to provide their name and SSNs prior to being hired... a simple system that compares the Name, SSN, and birthdate with the existing Social Security database would uncover most illegal aliens within a few weeks of their first paycheck.

Instead of sending toothless "no-match" letters, we could send an agent to verify the documentation of those identified. Fund this by seizing any outstanding earnings of the illegal employees, not to mention serious fines to employers that are found to be willfully employing those they know to be illegals.

We don't need to deport illegal aliens. If they can't get what they came here for, they'll leave.

Of course, none of this will happen. Both sides of the aisle have their own reasons for wanting a pool of powerless and cheap labor, and all the hand-wringing, accusations of racism, pompous moralizing, and empty rhetoric is just a smokescreen for base self-interest.

The lawful citizenry of this nation are TIRED of footing the bill for the special interests that profit from illegal immigration.

Posted by UkNoWmYNaMe on September 19, 2007 at 8:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

to all you kkk individuals. one flag, one language nonsense keep up your absurd meaningless comments. because no matter what you due your not going to have no impact in this immigration battle as a matter of fact no one will. face it illegal immigration is not and will not end . so deal with it or leave to an all white racist place. like i said illegal immigration wont be stoped day by day there is more and more immigrants comming in to this country the majority being mexican. go ahead be scared cause i know all of you are. we will (mexicans) be the majority soon and thats what you all fear . we will take our land back , and thats the bottom line. so i'm glad the church is sheltering her

Posted by ummshaun on September 19, 2007 at 8:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

So this seems to be a clear violation of due process and the first amendment right to freedom of assembly. First of let's consider that the Simi Valley Police Department is a PUBLIC SERVICE, they can't charge anyone for doing their job. They aren't a private security company. That said, I'll continue to my point. First, there is a process that justice system is supposed to follow and in this situation it goes like this: First, an arrest needs to be made. If police need to enter an establishment they either need to cite probable cause in order to enter or obtain a warrant from a judge. Then an arrest can be made and anyone interfering with that arrest can also be arrested. Then there are court proceedings, you know the whole trial by jury thing. That’s where you are actually charged. Then, if you are found guilty, you can be punished…by the presiding judge. The police department can’t punish people (that’s a violation of due process) and they certainly can’t punish people in any way shape or form without trial for an exercise of the first amendment freedom to assemble that required them to do their duty as civil servants who are paid by a state budget. If anything it seems to me that the SVPD is responsible for this whole mess in the first place; They neglected their job and due process by not making an arrest and now they are passing the buck…literally.

Posted by SimiProud on September 19, 2007 at 8:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Now that we've heard from all of the members of the church. Let's talk some truths.

1. I am a firm believer in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior.

2. This whole issue is of a "state" nature. I believe the IRS should be contacted to investigate the church's non-profit status.

3. Women are not to be church pastors:
"1 Timothy 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet." June, you are out the will of God according to 1 Timothy 2:12.

4. What would Jesus do? He would speak to the woman breaking the law and tell her to make good on her transgression and sin no more. She needs to go back home.

5. The church is liable for the $40K bill because they could have kept all this a secret but they didn't. They chose to publicize it. Pay the bill June or beg the city's forgiveness.

6. This country is based on law and order. People who break the law need to be punished or a least deported if they are not here legally.

7. We need to secure our borders, make immigration easier and less expensive, and get on Mexico's case to take care of their poor or we will stop all trade with them.

People (Mexicans included), stop fighting the symptoms and fight to cure the disease!

Posted by CaptainAmerica on September 19, 2007 at 8:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Church should not lose their tax status, that is a ridiculus statement. They have let a woman stay in an empty home, the INS knows she is there. Following the teachings of Christ is not a political statement, it is a spiritual statement. Real Christians could care less about what the Mayor and City and the skinheads do to them, their kingdom lies in heaven.

Posted by narc121 on September 19, 2007 at 8:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well no wonder the police were needed, after this story was put in The Star! "Dozens of angry, loud people stood on each side of a Simi Valley church's driveway using bullhorns and overworked vocal cords to hurl insults at each other in an immigration protest Sunday."

Posted by senorbriar on September 19, 2007 at 9:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

yo no hablo ingles....but yo no visit Siiiime...eh? muy loco

Posted by AnnaWhaat on September 19, 2007 at 9:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

simivalleystar,Nope gotta say the Church provoked this one !!!!!!! They should have kept thier mouth shut..........
laura_54321 ,The Church is the one who made it public in the paper for all to read they were harboring her. The church should pay!!!!
ok FIRST Off alot of people seem to believe she is hiding in the Church. WRONG! She is hiding in the parsonage. A home the Church owns that usually the minister will live in while serving as the church's pastor. I doubt very seriously she is in the Church.
jay3777,I dont see it as a race thing. Actually I DO feel for this lady. I wish she knowing the first time she could get residency and citenzenship would have done it the right way! But nope she didn't bother. Then broke the law again a second time !!!!! I am not a cold hearted person, its sad it had to work out like this for her. Had she only done it right the first time. Her husband being a citizen should have KNOWN !!! Its a no win situation. But somewhere they have to draw the line. Come here legal or not at all.
Tom_Johnston ,Since when do illegals have a day in court? Don't they just show they are not holding a green card and get deported. The CHURCH made a HUGE mistake announcing the harboring of this lady. Knowing darn well it was gonna cause an uproar.
Doc ,Did the bank advertise to be robbed? Big difference. The Church glorified itself with putting it in the paper of thier own free will what they were doing. And it was against the law! What did they expect people to sit back and say thats ok?
huntram ,BUT the Church did provoke it! Other Church's breaking the law would have kept silent! Not advertising it in the paper. So they are liable in my eyes.
Simivisitor,Loved your comment!
Everyone seems to not realize here that the sanctuary is the CHURCH. A Parsonage is a home owned by the church which could be anywhere in the city. I'm sure INS could check the assets of the church and raid the homes or home owned by the church.
Lets not make an illegal act into a race issue.

Posted by Lilathe on September 19, 2007 at 9:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To Doc - you said "Following the teachings of Christ is not a political statement, it is a spiritual statement."
No where in the Bible does it teach anarchy. Mary and Joseph followed the laws of Ceasar even when Mary was about to give birth. By their very actions they showed us to obey the laws of our government unless they clashed with Gods law.

There is no place in the Bible that even implies that you should forcefully take money from others to be charitable with. You can be as charitable with your own money. You can pick your charities. I personally want all of my tax dollars to go to supporting the people in Darfur, Haiti, India and several other places. Why are "your" picks more Godly than mine? Why does illegally entering the USA make one supporting them "real" Christian?

Posted by lakerboy805 on September 19, 2007 at 10:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'll marry the broad for $10,000. Solve all the probs...even teach the kid how to play b-ball

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 19, 2007 at 11:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

AnnaWhaat...your remark: "Since when do illegals have a day in court?" that's curious...since EVERYONE in THIS country gets that "day in court". I think that is what we believe in here.

That is what makes this nation different from all to many of the others.

You have a problem with that?

Posted by Tom_Johnston on September 20, 2007 at 12:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lakerboy...think the "broad" is already taken! LOL!

UkNoWmYNaMe: Huh? You can't be serious? Who would want to know your name? If you had any backbone...we WOULD know your name.

Anna: True Believers should never keep their mouths shut, not you, not me, not the members of the United Church of Christ.

SimiProud: As was mentioned in an earlier post...be careful about what you ask for.

I'm not a fan of organized religion generally. It is too often the "opiate of the people", but when it comes to caring for the downtrodden and the castoffs of society, at least in our culture, religious entities and organizations step into the breach.

I greatly respect the congregation of the United Church of Christ in Simi Valley for taking a moral and "Christian" stand. A church should be a sanctuary, and for that matter so should a synagogue or a mosque.

How separate should a "church" be from the State? Is it ok to harbor pedophiles but not working mothers and wives?

I don't recall much in my admittedly limited Christian upbringing about how much a person of faith should follow the edicts of Ceasar, but one of the concepts I came away with, and I think it is a good one...is to treat the least amongst us as well as we would the highest..or the best...or words to that effect.

I may have that a bit off, but it's how I've tried to live my life and will continue to that end.

And for what it's worth, one thing my Lutheran upbringing gave me was a sense of saying.."Here I Stand".

I don't hide behind phony or made-up names. I stand by my words and my beliefs.

Posted by brooke2 on September 20, 2007 at 1:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

doc, you should ask the mayor, not me. They are breaking the law, the church is harboring an illegal alien and I believe that is a felony.

We aren't discussing slaves hidden by the Church or Christians in Rome.

What does the GOP have to do with this and what one issue are you referring to?

The issue here is the Mayor billing the church for police services used for a protest that was created because the church publicized they were harboring an illegal alien.

Posted by bwilliamson on September 20, 2007 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

My comment about Ms.Liliana was not meant to be racist nor should that "card" be played. I simply asked the question because her "family" lives in Oxnard.

Posted by FedUp on September 20, 2007 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

thats what I figured Ms. Williamson. thanks for clarifying this for the lefties.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on September 20, 2007 at 7:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let me see Tom....When they do immigration raids do each one go to court? Or if they cant proove thier legal status get sent to the border........

As to the other comment, My POINT being the CHURCH brought this protest upon themselves......period.

Posted by Face on September 21, 2007 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It is illegal to harbor a known illegal alien. Now, you have to have knowledge of this... renting to someone with a fake SS# doesn't count, but to harbor someone you know is here illegally is in fact.. illegal.

Posted by bugmenot on September 21, 2007 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Tom_Johnson:

'AnnaWhaat...your remark: "Since when do illegals have a day in court?" that's curious...since EVERYONE in THIS country gets that "day in court". I think that is what we believe in here.'

Do they? http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS...

Posted by spokenit on September 22, 2007 at 9:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Illegals shouldnt have a day in court! Do they pay anything?? NO! I dont care if people who are BORN HERE get free attorneys! (And I dont mean the kind that's mothers illegally came here just to have their baby so they can get everything handed to them.) We the people of this state are sick of freebees! I dont want to pay for them anymore get it? Why should I have to? I can barely afford life as it is and you are trying to tell me my taxes etc.. needs to go to illegal ingrates because they deserve it??? Take EVERYTHING out of schools prayer etc.. take the Ten Commandments down etc.. but let the church be a safety ground for illegals? Why? Dont try to find GOD now people. They do everything wrong and then want justice? I think straight talk is what is needed here but straight talk gets people hurt, fired, you name it happens. No one likes the truth. Its not fair for the USA to have to hold all this and deal w/ it. Mexico and any other country should be paying for their own people to live here.Soften the blow! But they wont,so why should we? You know the hire ups in every state, country COULD fix all this but they wont because this only pads their pockets and we the people argue about it! Now I need some coffee have a good weekend people!

Posted by Bamile on September 28, 2007 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with the mayor. Then with the INS they sould do more about the illegal problem. Our country has become so worried about hurting peoples feelings that we've seem to have forgotten about what’s right and wrong. Laws were set up for a reason. However; unfortunately I don't think this problem will stop until an illegal person or a group is carrying an unknown deadly virus and an epidemic breaks out. I know that is a harsh way of looking at it but we don't know what immunization people from other countries have or don't. I think then the countries will ban together and make sure all foreigners weather illegal or not be properly screened before coming over.

Also; another way we can stop this is to start doing some of the jobs we hire out for. Who's mowing your lawn? We need to close off the jobs we're too prideful to take. When I was a teenager I worked at a sub shop and my friends worked as resturaunts or fast food. Who's taking those jobs now and who's fault is it? We close the jobs and I think we'll have an impact because it won't be so easy to get jobs over here and some of the people will hopefully stay home.

I think the church should pay a fine because if I were harboring a fugitive in my home I would be in trouble as well. There is also nothing to do with being prejudice here with this case. I think people are just tired of allowing people to come here for the sole purpose of having a baby and then being a citizen. The airline should be able to look at how long a person is here and then see the person and if they look close to delivering deny travel and refund the ticket. Otherwise have them sign a form saying that the baby will be born here they pay the fees up front but that them nor the baby can be a citizen and when its time for you to leave you go home wherever that may be. Then if you want to be a citizen you follow the same procedures as everyone else.

Thanks for your time

Posted by archer on March 20, 2008 at 7:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

An Oxnard woman has moved to a small Simi Valley church with her 5-month-old son as part of a sanctuary movement that protects illegal immigrants from deported. The woman, who was told in May she was about to be deported, moved from an Episcopal church in Long Beach to a home that is owned by the United Church of Christ in Simi Valley and was once used as a parsonage on the churches grounds. She's 29 years old, was born in the state of Michoacan and was caught trying to cross the border from Tijuana to San Diego about nine years ago. She said she earlier applied for a student visa but was turned down. After being caught, she crossed the border in a different place and came to Oxnard. Liliana, who won't reveal her last name for fear of repercussions to her family, is one of four illegal immigrants in a swath of Southern California living in faith communities through the national New Sanctuary Movement. The false term, "undocumented immigrant," which severely downplays Liliana's crime. Yes, I said crime. As in one who breaks the law.

One doesn't need to be a murderer or a bank robber to qualify as a criminal. Journalists, above all, have an obligation to be impartial and to report the facts as accurately as possible. It is quite obvious that many journalists have let their personal feelings interfere with their journalistic judgment(staing unbiased) as well as their perception of right and wrong. Liliana is portrayed as a saintly, caring mother ("I am here to fight for my children!") and the authorities are played up to be the villains ("This made her a target of immigration officials. . . ."). Did this last excerpt evoke a mental picture of immigration officials drawing their weapons against poor, defenseless Liliana and little Pablito, as it did for me?
Equally shameful is the Rev. June C. Goudey and the Simi Valley United Church of Christ. Rev. June is guilty of doublespeak when she says criminals should be deported, but then says, "Liliana's only crime was using forged documents to enter the country." Huh? How can one participate in crime, yet not be considered a criminal, Ms. Goudey? The Rev. June is equally guilty of hypocrisy as her personal viewpoint on obedience to governmental law clearly deviates from the Holy Scriptures her church utilizes. Ms. Goudey should refresh herself on Romans 13, verses 1 through 5, where Paul is admonishing the followers to submit to earthly governing authorities. Maybe then it will dawn on her that her personal feelings on Liliana's situation are about 180 degrees off from God's word. Has Rev. June also blinded herself to the fact that Liliana has broken CLUE's precept No. 4- sanctuary candidates must have good moral standing- when she forged documents to gain access into this country? Do moral people produce counterfeit documents for the purpose of deceiving others for purely selfish motives? They do not. People who defend or provide aid and comfort to Liliana haven't a moral leg to stand on.

Posted by Reb on March 21, 2008 at 10:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

From the sounds of these comments it looks like Simi Valley has a smart Mayor, a dumb Church and a whole lot of misinformed citizens. It is against the law to knowingly help an illegal alien. It's a felony, and makes no difference if you are a church. The law reads :

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:
* assists an alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or
* encourages that alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
* knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.

Your Mayor is right and all you Right wing liberals are wrong

Posted by archer on May 7, 2008 at 11:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Simi City Council
All council members can be contacted through the city manager's office at 805-583-6701

Mayor Paul Miller
pmiller@simivalley.org
Mayor pro-tem Steve Sojka
ssojka@simivalley.org

Councilmembers
Barbara Williamson
bwilliam@simivalley.org
Glen Becerra (**ANTI-lilianna)
gbecerra@simivalley.org
Michelle Foster
mfoster@simivalley.org

Ventura Board of Supervisors
District 4: Supervisor Peter Foy
(Moorpark, Simi, Somis, Las Posas Valley, Santa Susana Knolls, Box Canyon, Home Acres, Tierra Rejada, and Sinaloa Lake.)
980 Enchanted Way, Ste 203
Simi Valey, CA 93065
805-955-2300
supervisor.foy@ventura.org

Calif State Assembly
37th District: Audra Strickland, Republican (** very ANTI-illegal alien)
(Moorpark, **Simi, **Thousand Oaks, Camarillo, **Los Angeles, Santa Paula, Fillmore, **Ojai)
State Capitol Office
State Capitol Room 4098
Sacramento, CA 94249-0037
916-319-2037
FX 916-319-2137

District Office
2659 Townsgate Road, Ste 236
Westlake Village, CA 91361
805-230-9167
FX 805-230-9183
assemblymember.strickland@assembly.ca...

38th District: Cameron Smith, Republican
(**Los Angeles, Santa Clara, **Simi, **Glendale)
State Capitol Office
State Capitol Room 4153
PO Box 942849
Sacramento, CA 94249-0038
916-319-2038

District Office
23734 Valencia Blvd, Ste 303
Sanat Clara, CA 91355
661-286-1565