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Women make less than men even just out of college
Photos by James Glover II / Star staff Madison Simpson and her mom, Denise, rest at a Mother's Day lunch at Patagonia's on-site child care facility in Ventura. The company also offers four months of leave to moms and dads for births and adoptions.
No matter how hard women work in most cases, it's not enough to bridge the gender pay gap.
A year after they graduate from a four-year college, women earn 20 percent less than their male counterparts, according to a study released in April by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation. And it widens to 31 percent less 10 years after college.
"It was a little surprising that we saw the pay gap so quickly out of college," said Catherine Hill, the foundation's director of research. "We saw it right away. It's somewhat wider among college-educated men and women than the whole work force."
The study refutes the stereotype that women make less because of putting their careers on hiatus for a few years to give birth and raise their children, said Rep. Lois Capps, D-Santa Barbara.
"This pay disparity exists even for students fresh out of college," Capps said.
The pay gap is a significant problem in Ventura County and across the country, she said.
"It's been 44 years since the Equal Pay Act was introduced, and we still see the disparity in such astonishing numbers," Capps said.
When the Equal Pay Act became law in 1963, women earned 59 cents on average for every dollar earned by men doing the same work. By 2005, the pay increased to 77 cents on the dollar an improvement, but not enough of one, Capps said.
The gap is especially apparent in Ventura County, which has a large minority population. When compared with white men doing the same job, African-American women earn an average of 66 cents on the dollar and Hispanic women make 55 cents on the dollar, according to a 2006 Census Bureau report.
Women have made progress, particularly in terms of educational achievement, Hill said. They are now the majority of graduates on many college campuses and are more likely to get higher grades in every subject, she said.
"It's something to celebrate that so many doors have opened," said Hill. "It was not so long ago where women were not permitted to go to college in certain programs, or could be kicked out of college for being pregnant."
After Hill's mother became pregnant, she was encouraged to leave Radcliffe College, and was told that she wasn't qualified to be a student. It was a decision she didn't even question, even though today, no one would bat an eye at a pregnant woman in college, Hill said.
"Yes, we've made these achievements, yet we're not seeing the paycheck keep up," she said.
After completing college, women are also a little more in debt than men and yet they're going to earn less she said.
"And that's going to make it harder to start a family, buy a house, or buy cars," Hill said.
A taboo topic
Part of the problem is that many women don't know if they are being paid fairly because they don't feel comfortable talking about money.
"Most people know more about their co-worker's sex lives than they know about their paycheck," Hill said.
The Paycheck Fairness Act, proposed April 24 on Equal Pay Day, would protect workers who choose to share their salary with another person, without having to worry employers will retaliate.
While employers don't openly forbid the discussion of salary, many companies have confidentiality policies to dissuade the dissemination of such information.
"When people know, they are more likely to advocate on their behalf," Capps said.
Even if employees don't want to broach the subject with their peers, there's no excuse not to have an accurate reference point in the information age, Hill said. Web sites such as Salary.com, PayScale.com and Monster.com provide salary calculators specific to region and vocation.
The Paycheck Fairness Act "puts some teeth into" the Equal Pay Act, Capps said. It would give employers incentives to pay equally, and would allow women to sue for punitive damages in addition to compensatory damages, she said. The legislation would create grant programs to strengthen the negotiation skills of women and children.
If passed, employers will get a better work force because women resent it when they aren't paid the equivalent of their male counterparts, and they are more likely to not work as hard or leave to find a better paying job, Capps said.
She is cautiously optimistic the legislation will pass. It still needs to get through a series of votes in the House and Senate, and then signed by the president.
"It recognizes too little progress has been made with the Equal Pay Act," Capps said. "We are seeing such a snail's pace of progress. We have so many women in the work force now. Many of these women are single. That means we have impoverished households, and that means there are families at risk. This is about strengthening families and strengthening communities."
Most women will spend a big part of their careers alone, whether it is because of divorce, separation or becoming a widow, Hill said.
Making a few thousand dollars less a year than a man may not bother a young woman living alone without a family to support, Hill said. But the promotions and job offers received based on prior pay can affect a woman's entire career. As women start families, they are more apt to become aware of the pay disparities.
"We need to equalize our expectations of parents," Hill said. "We really see men and women behaving very differently. Women are clearly taking the caregiving role, which might be the right choice in the beginning. But so many marriages don't work, that we think it's wise for women to accept that reality and become financially responsible."
Low pay is especially a problem in industries that are female-dominated, such as nursing, child care and food processing, Capps said.
Women opting to pursue lower paying positions than men explains part of the pay gap. They are far more inclined to work in education, but less likely to be found in computer science.
Likely to take a leave
AAUW Educational Foundation's study found that women were more likely to take a leave at some point. However, the study found that 25 percent of the pay gap remains unexplained, which points toward discrimination.
Most employers do not think they discriminate against women, Hill said, and most do not discriminate intentionally. But based on the perceptions employers make, such as assuming a young woman will leave her job to have children, might discourage them from promoting a woman versus a man, she said.
Chin-Ning Chu, author of "The Art of War for Women: Sun Tzu's Ancient Strategies and Wisdom for Winning at Work," says women who are "superb in their field cannot be discriminated against, because men are not stupid."
"Anyone who can make money for them, even if it is a dog, they will treat that dog right," said Chu, a San Francisco Bay Area resident.
She urges women to make themselves better than the competition.
"If you're better, then money is not a problem," she said. "If you're not better, they will not give you a raise when you ask for one. They will give you a walk paper instead."
Patagonia employee Lisa Sander holds her son, Tynan, at the company's child care facility. The center is a benefit offered to employees to manage work-life balance.
By the numbers
29 percent Women in California with a four-year college degree or more as of 2006.
31 percent Men in California with a four-year college degree or more as of 2006.
$51,112 Median annual earnings of women with a four-year college degree in California, the fifth-highest in the country, from 2003 to 2005.
$65,760 Median annual earnings of men with a four-year college degree or more from 2003 to 2005.
78 percent What women with a four-year college degree earn when compared with equally educated men doing the same full-time work in California, which ranks 10th in comparison with other states.
Source: American Association of University Women
She argued that women as a whole lack a "warrior spirit."
"We still have that Cinderella syndrome, and have a glass slipper somewhere in our heart," Chu said. "We're all waiting around for our Prince Charming to rescue us from the workplace. Certainly, this attitude is not for the battlefield of business. In business, you need a combat boot mentally."
Chu predicts women's wages will catch up to men in this century "finally, after 5,000 years," she said. "I call this century the woman's century."
Still, Chu warns that women cannot have it all.
"You can get everything you want, but not at the same time," she said. "If you want to establish your career first, then you will have to delay your family. Or, you could have your kids and then establish your career."
At Patagonia in Ventura, women don't have to make that choice. The outdoor apparel company provides an on-site child care facility for employees, as well as four months leave for both mothers and fathers after a birth or adoption. Two of these months are paid.
"I only wish I worked at Patagonia when my children were little," said Chief Financial Officer Martha Groszewski. "At the time, I had live-in help, and all the money I earned went to child care."
Groszewski predicts the pay gap will eventually disappear, but not for a generation or two. But considering women have only become a significant part of the work force for the past two generations, women have made big strides, she said.
Companies have to ask: "How can we create an off ramp for people to take some time off from their career, and then create an on ramp to get back to work?" said Shannon Ellis, director of Human Resources at Patagonia.
She added that Patagonia's top wage earners are equally weighted in terms of gender and pay.
"I don't think the glass ceiling ever existed here," Ellis said.
Paycheck Fairness Act
- It would create incentives for employers to eliminate pay disparities.
- The Department of Labor would be allowed to enhance its efforts to assist employers with eliminating inequities.
- Employees would be allowed to talk freely about salary, and employers would be prohibited from retaliating.
- Employers would be required to prove that wage gaps between men and women are not a result of gender discrimination.
- The legislation must pass the House and Senate before it can be submitted for approval to the president.
Source: American Association of University Women; Rep. Lois Capps, D-Santa Barbara
Posted by wallace on May 20, 2007 at 9:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The study, the article, and the comments of socialist Lois Capps are all drivel.
The article fails to note that women tend to choose majors in college that lead to lower-paying fields - for example, men are more likely to choose a major like engineering, women are more likely to choose a major like education or social work.
This omission is so glaring it must be deliberate.
Posted by rebel123 on May 20, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Women in the sciences also make less right out of college and have more difficulty securing the same jobs. My sister's daughter graduated from Boston College, with a Master's in organic chemistry. While her far less talented male collegues hopped right into high paying jobs, it took her many months longer to find a job and she is making less than they are. My daughter's roommate graduated from pharmacy school and went right to work.....and found out she is making less than her male classmates even though she graduated third in her class at a very prestigious school. Face it....the disparity exixts and I seriously don't think it has much to do with women not wanting to discuss money. It is a built in standard that is taking a very long time to break down and as long as topics like salaries are considered verboten to discuss in the workplace it will continue. Wallace: your feelings about Lois Capps have nothing to do with this fact. Women are entering the sciences in record numbers. It is your same mindset that keeps them behind their male counterparts by suggesting that it is somehow their own doing that keeps their pay lower. This article is talking about same jobs for less pay, not comparing an engineer to a teacher!
Posted by wallace on May 20, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The article did not discuss "the same jobs for less pay", that is simply a fact. It lumped together all recent graduates regardless of major:
"A year after they graduate from a four-year college, women earn 20 percent less than their male counterparts, according to a study released in April by the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation."
When Ms. Capps wants to use the power of the government to impose her Marxist economic views on the nation's private employers, it is quite appropriate to point out her obvious dishonesty in promulgating these bogus statistics.
Posted by rebel123 on May 20, 2007 at 2:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Wallace: Read paragraph 7. While I did not mention my income at all, you seem to read that into my post in your rush to judgement. My reading skills are quite find and I have no gender bias, or sexual bias for that matter. The far less talented males I refer to are those who graduated much farther down in their class rankings and had no awards, were not published, were not offered fellowhips, yet were offered better internship packages at the very same firm than she was last summer. She also applied for jobs along side her male classmates, who by all available metrics were not as qualified yet two of her male classmates were hired over her. One even reported back to her that his manager made a remark that they don't want to invest in female candidates who will leave the workforce to have babies. I did not say all of the men in her graduating class were untalented, I simply stated the facts of her situation which seems to be evidence to support the claims of this article as well as disputing your claim that the reason women make less is because they choose lower paying careers. What I am pointing out is that the wage gap exists in higher paying technical careers as well. My neice was third in her class and yet she is discovering that the other male new hires at her company are making more money in spite of the fact that their academic achievements paled in comparison to hers. They were offered more money up front. Now that she knows this, she has gone back to her management and is leveraging that for a fair increase to put her on par with her coworkers. And I suspect that she will get it. She should not have to ask and should haved been offered equal pay for equal work. Again, read paragraph seven of the article.
While you are eager to suggest I have a clouded point of view, you seem to have a rather strong political agenda yourself. Women make less than men in the same jobs. That is a fact that you can find statistics for all over the place and has nothing to do with Lois Capps.
Posted by wallace on May 20, 2007 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Paragraph 7 says: ""It's been 44 years since the Equal Pay Act was introduced, and we still see the disparity in such astonishing numbers,' Capps said." - which has no bearing on anything I said.
Still, the study cited lumped together all recent graduates regardless of major. That's as worthless as the "77 cents on the dollar" figure, which lumps together all women, regardless of their profession, years employed, etc. The "statistic" is bogus.
Citing some isolated and unsubstantiated anecdote has little or no value.
Posted by rebel123 on May 20, 2007 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)
My error. Paragraph 8 (so now you can insult my ability to count too) says: "When the equal pay act became law in 1963, women earned 59 cents on average for every dollar earned by men DONG THE SAME WORK....." Look also at the chart that breaks down wages by same profession. It is your slant that this article is lumping all professions into the same category. The chart proves otherwise. You seem bent on suggesting that there is no pay disparity and this is all a huge ruse. Facts (and life) don't lie.
Posted by wallace on May 20, 2007 at 4:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is not from any study, it is a false statement by Capps: "When the equal pay act became law in 1963, women earned 59 cents on average for every dollar earned by men DONG THE SAME WORK....."
The chart shows average wages after ten years, and includes broad categories, not specific professions. The alleged disparity among recent graduates was not broken down by profession. You're comparing apples to oranges.
Please try to read more carefully.
Posted by mikesmason on May 20, 2007 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I suspect one would have a hard time finding an actual case of same job less pay. If you did there would be an easy lawsuit. You can however find many, many examples of men being discriminated against in hiring. The airline industry is a prime example. Qualifications of pilot employment candidates can easily be ranked by logged hours and type of experience. Many inexperienced female and minority pilots have been given hiring preference over better qualified non- minority men. This is well documented. Gender discrimination is alive and well, the cold hard facts are that it is the men that are being discriminated against.
Posted by nannyfo1 on May 22, 2007 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)
There is also another large omission. I see people of both genders coming into my field out of school with awards, honors, etc. that don't have a clue as to what they are doing. Academic achievement just doesn't translate into proffesional ability. I wonder why noone has considered that these women may not be as good or present themselves as less than qualified at time of interview. Black men make more than white men in the NBA playing the same position, but it's not racist. It's just that they happen to be better at there job.
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