Posted by rjlebeck on July 1, 2007 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Gallegly,

I can appreciate the logic of your approach but can you address how your laws would effect the lives of the tens of thousands who have set up residence here illegally for ten, maybe twenty years since the last amnesty. It seems you would be content to hound and starve them back across the border with your legislation. There is neither any compassion nor recognition of the work, the sacrifice, and yes the taxes paid by these long-standing members of our community.

Do you have any sympathy for these people or are they merely a convenient bogeyman to rally the fearful and put-upon masses?

I'm damned angry as well that for the last twenty years while you have fiddled with the issue, no one bothered to make a stand at the border and that decent paying jobs in the construction and health care industries, to name a few, have increasingly been filled by illegal immigrants in a successful attempt to bust unions and pad the profits of stockholders and management at the expense of workers and their families.

The horse is already out of the barn Mr. Gallegly.

You looked the other way for twenty years while the problem festered and now you will look the other way as millions starve as they are hounded and harrassed back to their country of origin to another uncertain future.

Again, the horse is out of the barn, the barn is on fire, and the fence needs mending.

Fix the fence, rebuild the barn, but don't shoot the horses.

Posted by Tom_Johnston on July 1, 2007 at 8:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr Gallegly resorts to the usual spin only 14 words into this "commentary". He refers to the proposed legislation as the "Senate amnesty bill".

This is the kind of substitute for statesmenship we have come to expect from Mr Gallegly and far too many of those we all send to Congress.

I don't see how paying fines, back taxes, going back to where you came from, then applying and then waiting in line letting all those who applied before you to come back the USA is "amnesty".

It isn't, it wasn't but it sure makes for fine spin by talk radio and Mr Gallegly's ilk.

He is one of the reasons nothing at all will get done, this year apparently and I'd be willing to bet at least until after the next elections cycle. He is not alone..the far Left and the far Right share in this failure to act.

Posted by bajarat on July 1, 2007 at 11:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The wretched amnesty scheme is dead. The people have spoken. Now the laws currently on the books need to be enforced. Round 'em up and move 'em out, I say. Every last one of 'em. Enough is enough.

Posted by rjlebeck on July 1, 2007 at 9:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm not clueless. I am well aware illegal immigrants have been breaking the law for the last twenty years. But I'm not worried because I actually believe that our country is greater than the sum total of our worries and fears. It doesn't make it right and there is plenty of blame to go around for the situation we're in but I am still willing to take the risk that what is wrong with America can still be remedied by what's right with America. What say ye, armchair patriots?

Posted by bot_feeder on July 1, 2007 at 10:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey, yeah, it's all Gallegly's fault that illegal immigration hasn't been brought under control.

Sure those trying to do something about illegal immigration are up against the most powerful coalition of special interest groups ever assembled in the history of mankind, but, hey, Gallegly is God, right? So certainly he ought to be able to fix this problem singlehandedly.

As to the comment of sympathy for those illegally in the country who have deep roots here by now.

You know what, the American people might have been willing to consider amnesty for people in that situation, if the government had acted in good faith and actually gotten our border under control, and gotten our visa system under control.

And this new bill, it didn't grant amnesty just to those with deep roots in this country, it granted it to anyone here since the beginning of THIS YEAR. Not only that, but it is widely believed that anyone who came since then or who even were to come in the coming months could simply get fraudulent documentation and get amnesty as well. Especially since the whole system was structured to encourage fraud. (just like the 1986 amnesty).

But to the person who complained that Gallegly called it an amnesty bill. Personally I don't think that is a proper descriptor for it either. I believe it is more accurately called an open borders bill. Because I believe that it would have sabotaged any future efforts to enforce the immigration laws in the future, basically erasing our borders for good.

Now I do believe it would eventually have led to our borders coming under control. But not the way the proponents would claim. Rather, it would have unleashed such a state of utter anarchy in our country that the public would demand a hard-line leader to get things under control. In 2012, we would get a President who would make Tom Tancredo look like a bleeding heart softie on illegal immigration.

Then the problem would finally be brought under control.

Rather than going through a binge and purge cycle of government, however, I would prefer to see that we bring illegal immigration under control in a gradual and orderly way.

Posted by bot_feeder on July 1, 2007 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It will be interesting to see what happens in the 2008 elections regarding this issue.

All of the Democratic candidates for President are out of step with working class Democrats on this issue.

If the Republican candidate in 2008 is smart, he will see that taking a hard line on illegal immigration is a great way to win over working class Democrats to the Republican Party. It is also a great way to reach out to minorities and immigrants.

Black people HATE illegal immigration, and well they should, because a disproportionate number of black people in this country are in the lower-paid occupations, and their hopes for a better life have been shattered by illegal immigration.

And the vast majority of immigrants that I have talked to are MAD AS HELL at the idea that illegal aliens would get legal status in this country as a reward for violating our immigration laws, while immigrants had to wait years and years to come to this country legally.

The Republican Party can reach out to immigrants by honoring them for respecting their new country and its laws.

Posted by wanda on July 1, 2007 at 11:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Every year some 4 million people in this country move from one place to another. That's what drives Bekins and Mayflower and U-Haul business. Millions of illegal aliens can simply join in, and return to their home countries. As they do so they can bring with them the mythic energy and dynamism attributed them.

Posted by rjlebeck on July 2, 2007 at 5:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Bot_Feeder,

You have confirmed exactly what this legislation was all about in the first place: Another Republican wedge issue. It still serves politicians' interests to roil the pot rather than solve the problem. For today's current brand of Republican, it is more important to vote your hate than your hope.

As far as Gallegly is concerned, he had six years to push legislation from 1993 to 2001 while the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the White House and he did nothing. He is one man who could have made a difference and didn't. Why all the excuses?

Posted by Fed_Up_With_Illegals on July 2, 2007 at 8:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

To rjlebeck

You are certainly entitled to your beliefs and opinions, but let's keep in mind beliefs and opinions are subjective. They are NOT facts.

What IS a fact is that Lady Law is blind (hence, the blindfold). She doesn't care that you've been here 20 years; if you came in illegaly, you broke the law. Now, THAT is a fact.

Would you be sympathetic to a bank robber who robs banks to feed his starving family? I think not. Neither would Lady Law.

The fact that these families have gotten away with breaking the law for 20 years just goes to show you how we are not enforcing the laws. If we were, then they would have been caught at the border and sent back 20 years ago, thus eliminating the 20 years you are now crying about. You see?

Next you will tell us that it is wrong to tear families apart. We are doing nothing of the sort; those illegal families are the ones making that choice. They seem to "conveniently forget" that they can take their anchor babies with them. We ALL HAVE choices.

Illegals are NOT victims. They are active lawbreakers. They have made the choice to sneak in without our permission, and THEY KNOW THIS. They are not stupid; they just CHOOSE TO ACT STUPID and prey on your emotions. Don't let them do that to you. Stay objective and support our laws.

Posted by rjlebeck on July 2, 2007 at 3:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Simple solutions to complex problems are not solutions. This is no longer a black and white, right vs. wrong issue. I did not support the proposed legislation because I did not believe the federal government had the will to enforce any of its provisions. I think that many of the folks I have riled up here agree with me that in ten or twenty years down the road we would be in the same sinking boat we find ourselves in now.

Where we choose to disagree is where we lay the blame. I blame our leaders for their collective lack of courage and vision in addressing an urgent and pressing social problem. This is not a Mexican conspiracy to undermine our way of life and standard of living; it is an American and globalist conspiracy promulgated in corporate board rooms and the Chambers of Commerce and abetted by their spineless surrogates in Washington D.C. My opinion.

We need a stiff border. We need teeth in the enforcement of our immigration laws. However, it is too late and too broke to go back and fix a problem 20 years and 20 million illegal aliens in the making. That is why I favor a limited form of blanket amnesty for those who have established themselves for a number of years without committing further criminal acts on U.S. territory. It is the only practical solution. But let's first begin by getting serious about stemming or stopping the further illegal flow of immigrants into the country NOW!

Posted by Fed_Up_With_Illegals on July 3, 2007 at 6:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rjlebeck,

Don't lose hope too soon. If we have an attitude like that, then yes, we are doomed to fail. But We The People have shown what we can do. After our show of force to slam the Shamnesty, the pols in Washington are now listening to us. The proverbial Sleeping Giant has awakened. Now We The People can demand that our present laws be enforced. We have the advantage of elections coming up next year too, that is why a lot of senators up for election voted our way. We have talk radio and the internet on our side. So, it is NOT too late.

So let's all keep our chins up, keep informed of developments, call our reps, and DEMAND for enforcement of the law! The illegals will go home when they can't find jobs. This will take time, but it WILL happen.

And I do agree with you that the fed govt is to blame. They lack the WILL to enforce existing laws. Witness Elvira Arellano. If the govt had the will, she would have been deported a long time ago. It's all politics to them; to us, it is our very lives that are affected on a daily basis.

I read a story yesterday in one of the online newspapers of Houston, TX. An illegal alien Mexican woman dropped an anchor baby in a Houston hospital. It was premature and the baby had all sorts of complications and had to stay in the hospital for months. Cost to taxpayers? 1 million dollars. And we are still continuing to pay for that anchor baby because he needs ongoing care and therapy and treatments. $1M. That is not chump change. If the mother had stayed in Mexico and had her baby there....well, that is moot now.

And this is just one story out of millions. And it is stories like this that renew my vigor to keep fighting.

It is a personal affront to me to even give illegals a "limited form of blanket amnesty" as you call it. Why should they have special treatment? I, myself, had to wait 12 years to become a citizen. I paid thousands of dollars to do it the right way. My siblings are still waiting, and for them, it has been over 15 years. You see? It is not fair, it is not right. The law is the law. It IS black and white.

Posted by rjlebeck on July 3, 2007 at 9:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear Fed Up With Illegals,

A "limited form of amnesty" it would only allow illegal immigrants to move to the back of the line . It means that the illegality of their status would be removed and that in all likelihood they would not become full-fledged citizens for 10 to 15 years just like you and your siblings. It is not entirely the fault or the individual responsibility of the many millions of people who crossed over the border and set up residence illegally. They were encouraged by American business interests and the lax enforcement of our government who purposely looked the other way on behalf of their corporate masters. Now that the elite are finished with their cheap labor (I suspect they are not) they are easily discarded and thrown back to the streets like some two-bit whore. America is the whore and needs to come to grips with its insatiable need for economic gratification.

Posted by Fed_Up_With_Illegals on July 4, 2007 at 1:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear rjlebeck,

"Moving to the back of the line" means nothing to illegals. Most of them don't want to become citizens anyway as evidenced by their refusal to assimilate and learn English and their hatred of us. Your "limited form of amnesty" is EXACTLY what they want. It means they get to STAY here legally, while they wait for their so-called citizenship approval, which as you pointed out, will take 10 -15 years. That's another 10 -15 years they get to live HERE, with freebies and taxpayer-paid benefits. They don't care if they don't become citizens; they just want our dollars. And THAT is the point: STAYING HERE ON U.S. SOIL. My siblings are STILL in their home country, another 3rd World cesspool, struggling to support their families while they wait for their approval. (And btw, my siblings are all educated with master's degrees and speak perfect English.) Is there something wrong with this picture? Break the law and you get rewarded with 10-15 years of living in the United States. Follow the law and you wait 10-15+ years in your cesspool countries. If this isn't a slap in the face to the millions of law-abiding immgirants, then my siblings might as well illegally cross the borders and establish their illegal residence here.

Yes, you are right that it is not entirely the illegals' fault to come here illegally. It is the fault of Big Business, other countries' corrupt governments, our country's lack of will to enforce the law, politcal vote pandering, AND the illegals themselves who have individually made the choice to move here without our permission. And we are not "throwing them back on the streets." We are asking them to go home. They are citizens of another country; we are under no obligation to feed, house, educate, and give them free medical care.

And America IS NOT "the whore." The real whores are all those people I named above. They are the ones prostituting themselves for dollars and votes.

What America IS is a rape victim.

Posted by rjlebeck on July 5, 2007 at 1:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear Fed Up With Illegals,

This is a interesting dialogue even if we might be the only ones reading it.

Believe it or not I am finding sympathy with your point of view. If you decide to reply again I would ask that you clarify but one thing: Do you believe that your siblings have a right to be in this country? Do you believe that they have any more right to claim a stake to citizenship than any of the others you disparage. Because if you do then I'm not sure there is any sense in furthering the conversation.

In a recent article in the Star written by Paul Craig Roberts (3 July), the abuse of the immigration policy in attracting well educated professionals in an effort to displace American computer programmers and engineers is well documented. In fact my sister who worked for Dell computers lost her high paying job when it was outsourced to educated professionals from India who could be paid a third of what she was worth. I could easily harbor as much resentment for your siblings for wanting to come to this country so desperately and unwittingly furthering the goals of big business at the expense of the country I love. But I harbor no ill will toward your family even though it comes at the expense of my own.

Please try to not become another me, me, me, American. We have already too many of this outlook.

I think that with a gradual reapplication of the rule of law we should be able to accept both your siblings and many others who may not be as talented as you and yours.

As far as America being a "rape victim", it is hard to sympathize with a victim who implores their attacker to "Please, stop it some more"!

Posted by Fed_Up_With_Illegals on July 5, 2007 at 6:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear rjlebeck,

Yes, this is an interesting dialogue, especially since we are debating on valid issues rather than fearmongering. I do understand we are on the same side.

To answer you question, no, I do not believe my siblings have a right to be here, but what I think is moot. It is what the federal govt thinks that is important, and that is why they conduct background checks ad nauseum. If my siblings are denied, then so be it. But I am proud of them for trying to apply legally, rather than illegally.

And to soothe your worried mind, my sibs have masters degrees in business and education. They will not be displacing computer programmers and the like. They are, though, needed in their specialty fields. A businessman creates jobs, and a teacher...well, you know how we need qualified teachers at this time. My sister has a masters degree in special ed, a field we are desperately looking for candidates for.

The millions of illegals are here without those background checks. Hence we have more crime and diseases that have come back like TB. Our lack-of-will govt is exposing our very lives to this every day.

I will never become a me, me, me American. I don't even know what that is. That sounds like the Big Business people and the Beltway politicians and the special interest groups like La Raza. Not to mention the illegals who so arrogantly march in our streets, waving their countries' flags, and demanding instant citizenship. Those are the me, me, me Americans, except of course you cannot call the illegals "Americans," like Reid did.

Let me clarify: By "America" I am referring to us, the ordinary citizen, We The People. We ARE the rape victims. We have paid dearly through taxes, loss of quality of life, the closing of hospitals, the dumbing down of our schools, exposure to crime and diseases, and worst, death of our loved ones. For 21 years now and counting. We have lost more Americans to death by illegals IN ONE YEAR than ALL the deaths of American soldiers in the WHOLE of the Iraq war.

Anyways, I am going on vacation. We'll continue this when I get back or if I can borrow someone's computer.

TC.

Posted by Fed_Up_With_Illegals on July 11, 2007 at 10:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm back.