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Rodeo school focuses on riding, roping and religion
Photos by Rodger Mallison / Fort Worth Star-Telegram Samuel Park, 20, left, and Cole Gifford, 12, chase after a calf at a monthlong rodeo school run by champion cowboy Allen Bach at his Texas ranch. The school not only focuses on teaching roping skills, but also emphasizes the Christian faith.
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More from LifestyleFORT WORTH, Texas — In the first century, Jesus commissioned his followers to make the catch, meaning that his small band of apostolic fishermen would reel in converts and engage them in discipleship training.
Almost 2,000 years later, a high-profile cowboy heeded the same call by aiming his rodeo school toward roping up-and-coming competitors into living the Christian faith.
Meet Allen Bach, defending world team roping heeling champion who takes the passages of Jesus' great commission and the biblical teachings on Christian mentorship seriously. In October, Bach and a stable of credentialed instructors trained 13 younger cowboys during an exhaustive 20-day course at Bach's Millsap ranch, west of Weatherford, Texas.
But the curriculum offered much more than instructions on roping the head and heels of a running steer. Each day, it featured four intense, 30-minute Bible studies.
In addition to conveying his own lessons, Bach recruited seven ministers engaged in the growing Cowboy Church movement. He also brought in high-profile Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association athletes, including defending world all-around champion Trevor Brazile and seven-time team roping world champion Clay O'Brien Cooper.
"We need to take responsibility to become spiritual fathers to those whom God plugs us into," said Bach, head of a Christian ministerial organization called Forever Cowboys. "We're pouring in all of the good things that we've learned about life."
His commitment to his students far exceeds that at a typical rodeo school, which might last three to five days. His classes ran Monday through Friday for four consecutive weeks.
"I've heard it said that it takes 21 days to break a habit and begin a new one, and so God impressed on me to run a longer school," Bach said. "It's taken me about a month to teach these boys to think like champions."
Bach's mentality helped him snare the 2006 world team roping heeling title at age 49. That's relatively old for a rodeo cowboy, although his event is less physically demanding than bull riding and not as taxing as calf roping, because team ropers do not dismount and manhandle cantankerous cattle.
But then Bach, a tall, lanky, agile cowboy, stunned rodeo fans when he won almost $100,000 at the 2006 National Finals Rodeo in Las Vegas. This season, Bach has clinched his 29th berth to the nationals next month in Las Vegas, and competed recently in the Texas Stampede ProRodeo Tour Championship in Dallas.
Except for the Texas Stampede, the 2007 season ended Sept. 30, which gave Bach the opportunity to run a monthlong school. He said he prayerfully sought out his students. "There has been no boy here who has held back."
Half his pupils specialized in team roping heading, meaning that they lasso the horns of a running steer. The others were heelers, meaning that they loop the steer's hind heels after the header makes the catch. Bach's snappy heeling catches can conclude a team roping-run in about four seconds, a discipline of speed and precision that he passed on from horseback and by standing on the arena floor hollering out instructions.
A typical morning session began with half an hour of Bible study under a spacious tent. Students faced a Stetson-capped instructor who wrote out spiritual principles on a blackboard. Then students engaged in more than two hours of roping before returning to Bible study.
"I've learned about the interconnectedness of roping and spirituality," said Chandler Chapin, 20, from Twin Falls, Idaho. "If you surround yourself with the right people, you will improve your roping and, spiritually, you want to be around people who are at a higher level, to help you grow."
As Jesus' ministry came to a close, he commissioned his disciples to go throughout the world and make Christian converts into faithful disciples. Today, his directive is viewed as a command to help spread the gospel locally and internationally.
The biblical theme is one of becoming a role model by successfully living out the faith to a younger follower of Christ. In the first century, for example, Jesus mentored 12 disciples, who in turn established the first century church and trained spiritual leaders to carry on Christ's work.
One persistent theme of Bach's camp was to find a mature mentor who will issue challenges. Trey Johnson, a prize-winning team roper who is pastor of a Midland, Texas, congregation, told students: "Be willing to live life with someone who will show you up."
Paul Eaves, 17, from Lonedell, Mo., said it's the right way to learn. "I've been praying for a mentor, and so to be around Allen and these great ropers is what I really needed," he said. "We've had great roping instruction and teaching of God's word. And that's what my life is all about, serving God and roping."
Posted by jill on December 29, 2007 at 7:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Unbelieveable! Cruelty to animals in God's name. What will they come up with next? WWJD? Don't think you'd see him at rodeos! Rodeos are no different than bullfights or dog fights: animals injured in the name of "entertainment." Please visit www.sharkonline.org for the truth about rodeo cruelty. Michael Vick would make a great cowboy.
Posted by afa on December 29, 2007 at 10:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm with Jill. I hardly believe that Jesus would be pleased with this abuse of His Father's creation, all in the name of a misguided, macho "entertainment."
Larry McMurtry ("Lonesome Dove") summed it up well in the 1994 book RODEO (Aperture Books, NYC):
"Cowboys, sensing--like gorillas--that their time has passed, cling ever more desperately to anachronistic styles, not willing to admit that the myth has degenerated, the traditions eroded to a point where attempting to sustain them falls somewhere between silliness and the outright ridiculous."
And this, from the same book: "[Louise Serpa, rodeo photographer] sees cowboys as noble men--indeed, a few of them are noble. I see them as physically competent but emotionally limited men who are in most cases sexist, chauvinistic, xenophobic, quasi-fascistic, and not infrequently dull."
McMurtry's right. A more humane and compassionate society than ours would have abandoned rodeo long ago.
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
Oakland
Posted by shindi on December 29, 2007 at 7:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Any suggestion that rodeo and Jesus are comptatible is something akin to sacrilege. Roping is the worst part of rodeo. Two weeks ago I saw a steer's leg broken during team roping, and I have witnessed many, many other injuries -- even more in calf roping and steer tripping, all of which are sanctioned events. The rodeo industry obviously agrees that calf roping is inhumane, and so they renamed it tie-down roping. I guess that's what you do when you don't have the character to change the activity -- you change the name.
WWJD? He would never, ever endorse this abuse.
Steve Hindi, President
SHowing Animals Respect and Kindness (SHARK)
Posted by Ernie2 on December 29, 2007 at 8:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Jesus told me that he wanted all his creatures treated with kindness and compassion; that’s why he is often seen holding a lamb. He said rodeos are the devil’s work, and that those who insist on snapping calves’ necks, bringing cattle down by stringing them cruelly out from head to hoof, and/or falsely claiming to work for God and hiding their evil deeds, shall burn in Hell eternally. Jesus further told me to pray for those poor heartless boys who know not what they do in their hopeless quest to become men. They can’t tell the prophet from the charlatan and are doomed to live their lives in a barbaric stupor. He told me to pity the poor sap who is brainwashed into thinking that roping is somehow serving God, because, as Jesus said, that is one sick dude who will never have the gates of Heaven opened for him.
Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 2:36 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Ernie2 you try to present yourself as a biblical scholar of sorts or a prophet. Can you give me any scripture to back up your standpoint? I really don't feel that Jesus would have ever said "that is one sick dude who will never have the gates of Heaven opened for him." Please go look up Gen 1:25-26. Or do you remember where your bible even is?
Posted by afa on December 30, 2007 at 3:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dear DLR - With all due respect, Steve Hindi's alleged background is not the issue here. Let's keep on point: the bizarre juxtaposition of religion as a defense of rodeo, when EVERY major animal welfare organization in the U.S. condemns rodeos for their inherent cruelty. The Biblical "dominion" means stewardship, NOT domination. Besides, everybody knows that God is spending too much time with the NFL to get involved in rodeo....
Cheers,
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
P.S. - Nor should anyone refer to rodeo animals as "athletes" - Race horses and racing greyhounds, maybe, who ARE trained to do what they do. The same cannot be said for rodeo animals. And assuredly not the roping calves and steers. Mistreat a dog thusly and go to jail. What's the difference, pray?
Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 3:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Your groups have referred to the animal athletes as actually gentle horses and bulls which are prodded and shocked into performing which could not be further from the truth. These animals are bred just for these puposes and I can assure you are indeed athletes. As far as the calves and steers go, vetrinarians have proven that there is actually more stress on a dogs neck when you leash train them than there is on a calf during the calf roping. The same can be said for the team roping. There are more vetrinarians who have advocated the sport of rodeo and the rules that we have in place for the welfare of our 4 legged athletes than have ever stood behind your fictional viewpoints. As far as the dominion-domination comment, I have used that very same quote during my training clinics and it is very true. If we were to try and dominate any of these animals it would prove to be a fruitless endeavor. There is no way you can make them do anything they don't want to. There is no way to take just any horse and "make" him buck and the same could said for any of the bulls. The times event stock is cared for with their well being held in the utmost regard for if they don't perform well or don't feel well they are taken out of the draw and not used. All stock is inspected every day without fail.
Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 3:35 p.m.
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Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 3:49 p.m.
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Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 3:59 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 4 p.m.
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Posted by RodeoAttitude on December 30, 2007 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
First, I am appalled that a man with the deep Christian faith and integrity of Mr. Bach would even be questioned. Anyone who knew him would know the deep respect he has for the animal athletes and that this is something he passes on to his students.
Second, if you don’t think that cowboys still use these skills on large ranches you are wrong. Have you ever tried to catch a calf when he gets out or is in a large pasture and needs doctoring? Sometimes the horse is an ATV (horses are easier to control and smarter) but the rope is still a tool used in the cattle industry.
Third, if you were educated you would know that the sport does not harm the animal as Mr. Hindi would like people to think.
Most important, every creature on earth has a right to exist. Existence is based on that the creature “works” or provides a reason to exist. Animals have this right. It is not called Animal Rights - IT IS CALLED – Animal’s Right To Work. Freedom From Extinction. This philosophy is as old as time itself. In reality Mr. Hindi and his Animal Right people are in fact the biggest enemies any animal has! If they get their way these animals will become extinct because their will be no reason for anyone to preserve their existence. Reality, are the animal rights people going to raise cattle in their backyard and feed them free for years and years to preserve their lives. Get real!
By the way if you don’t think that dog or cat lying next to you is working, you’re wrong. They are your companions and you pay them every time you feed them, shelter them, or take them to the vet. He didn’t choose that life but he is happy to have it. No difference that the animals in rodeo. They are well cared for and for the time they are on earth they have a purpose and that is more than I can say for some people I know.
Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 4:04 p.m.
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Posted by RodeoAttitude on December 30, 2007 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Regarding Troy Ellerman. You must not pay much attention to our industry. As a whole we are saddened that he has done these things. He was told resign or be fired. He chose resignation and no compensation was given to him. Every sport has its bad apples and our industry cooperated to the fullest with the authorities in this matter.
Larry Lancaster had a problem as to all sexual preditors. They are found in every walk of life. His family did not know of this and are VERY respected business people. They should not be thrown out with the trash because one person did something wrong. If you followed that thinking ever major company in America would have to close its doors.
One thing you won't find in rodeo and that is anyone paying legal fees for someone who destroys peronal property to get a point across, infringes on others rights or comits other felonies in the name of their cause. When we find out someone has done something wrong we do show them compassion because that is what God asks us to do and then we do everything we can to make it right!
And while you are talking about porn. How about the animal rights people that try to destron rodeo by posting that crap on our sites to give us a black eye not carrying whether young children will view the filth all in the name of protecting animals! Sorry I don't get that one.
Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 4:19 p.m.
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Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 4:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)
RodeoAttitude claims that rodeo does not "harm the animals." Video documentation proves otherwise. That's why the Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association recently attempted to have SHARK's YouTube account closed, so that the public would not see the irrefutable evidence. The PRCA falsely claimed copyright infringement. This speaks to the tactics and character of not only the PRCA, but the rodeo industry as a whole.
SHARK has video documented rodeos, from very small to very large, for fourteen years. The documentation shows that PRCA and other rodeo associations' humane rules exist for public relations purposes only. Rodeo animals treated brutally, and they pay with their lives.
Animals, including and especially horses, are regularly shocked. This happened as recently as at the just-ended National Finals Rodeo in Las Vegas. Those shockings occurred in front of rodeo judges who said nothing. The video footage is on YouTube.com.
Injured animals suffer without veterinary care in many cases. Life-threatening jerkdowns occur and are not called. The high number of rodeo injuries explains why the PRCA and other rodeo assciations do not release animal injury reports. Instead there is a baseless, fabricated set of statistics based on unnamed, undated rodeos that have no credibility whatsoever.
The late Cesar Chavez, in a letter to Eric Mills, compared rodeos to bullfighting (which also claims to have a link to God), dogfighting and c---fighting. Mr. Chavez spoke the truth. Jesus would never support such abuse of animals.
Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 4:39 p.m.
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Posted by RodeoAttitude on December 30, 2007 at 4:47 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 4:47 p.m.
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Posted by RodeoAttitude on December 30, 2007 at 4:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
One man - and ony one man - offered the settlement to Ellerman and he was quickly removed from his positon by the assoication. Gets your facts straight. The association when notified stood up and said NO!
The Lancaster family has the business, NOT Larry. Get your facts straight. Mine come from the horsess mouth!
Now since the comments are suppose to be on the wonderful article above. I will leave you with this. I think it is wonderful what Mr. Bach and his organization is doing and I know that it is making a difference in a lot of young people's lives and THAT is what is important.
Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 5:04 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 5:30 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 5:55 p.m.
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Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 6:08 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 6:17 p.m.
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Posted by shindi on December 30, 2007 at 7:11 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 10:06 p.m.
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Posted by DLR on December 30, 2007 at 10:07 p.m.
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Posted by shindi on December 31, 2007 at 5:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
DLR: You have your propaganda. SHARK has video documentation. That's why you skulk around namelessly in the shadows, while we stand tall and use our names. Here are some YouTube links so people can actually see for themselves:
2007 PRCA National Finals Rodeo SCORE TAMPERING EXPOSED!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9T6c...
Steer's Leg Broken at 2007 National Finals Rodeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJRR8O...
Steer Injured, Left to Die in 2004 Oregon Rodeo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r8lj_...
Rodeo Steer Injured, Left to Die Slowly in Oklahoma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTFtSX...
More videos may be viewed by searching "Rodeo Cruelty Corruption" at YouTube.com. See the cruelty, corruption and cowardice that the Rodeo Mafia tries so hard to hide.
Posted by jill on December 31, 2007 at 9:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I can't even stand to read some of these posts. DLR is obviously involved in rodeos in some way and, unlike Mr. Hindi, DLR is too cowardly to use his real name, so his anonymous accusations don't hold a lot of water. He's trying to change the real focus here, that any idiot knows rodeos are barbaric and cruel and that this Mr. Bach is definitely not doing the Lord's work. I think he's a glory-seeker making the $. There is nothing noble in what he's teaching these kids - desensitizing them to the pain and suffering of defenseless animals who are frightened, confused and injured, running from their attackers. How evil is that?
I do thank God for people like Mr. Hindi, who is giving a voice to those that cannot speak for themselves, bravely putting himself out there to stop slaughter in the name of "entertainment." Compassionate human beings like him let me know the world is not all bad.
As far as these rodeo clowns ("cowboys"), I think they've been thrown onto their heads one too many times. There's no feeling, nothing but blank behind the eyes. Their work is no different than dog fighting and bullfights. Rodeos are legalized abuse. To boycott rodeo sponsors, check out www.sharkonline.org for the list.
Posted by jill on December 31, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"I care not much for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it."-Abraham Lincoln
Posted by DLR on December 31, 2007 at 9:38 a.m.
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Posted by jill on December 31, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Question DLR:
Why do you promote cruelty to animals? Do you think that they don't feel pain, don't feel fear? Is it because you think they're dumb or that they're here for us to do whatever we want to them? Can you not put yourself or your loved ones in their place? Is it the money? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm really trying to understand the psychy, the way people think.
I ask you to do this. Next time, God forbid, that you are in a doctor's/dentist's office having an uncomfortable or painful procedure done, think about these animals who are forced to endure far more pain at the hands of people...and without anesthesia.
People say, "Oh, they don't feel pain like us," but they're screaming for a reason. Their nerves feel pain just like ours. I just can't understand for the life of me how anyone can watch rodeos and enjoy it or even think it's okay. The cruelty shakes me to the core :(
Posted by deniseCA on December 31, 2007 at 10:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm always baffled at how people defend cruelty.
The fact is: ANIMALS FEEL PAIN and RODEOS CAUSE PAIN, FEAR and SUFFERING.
There is no way Jesus would endorse this form of entertainment - connecting rodeo to religion is ridiculous.
It's simple - either you have compassion or you don't .. clearly those who defend or rationalize rodeos support cruelty and don't have compassion.
Posted by Brian on December 31, 2007 at 11:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jill, it amazes me how you can make the statements you make and be so ill informed on the subject you are speaking on. The ones that love animals are the ones that depend on them to make a living and feed their families (working cowboys,rodeo cowboys). The fact that folks like you let yourself get brainwashed by Hindi and the like with their propaganda and misinformation just baffles me. The more extreme they get in their practices (PETA,SHARK,etc.) the more they lose credibility with the public so I guess, keep up the good work Hindi. And please save the garbage that a rat,worm,etc. has the same feelings as you or I. Although it is comical, I have heard it all before. Just get educated on both sides of the argument before you start making accusations about rodeo. If all you have to base your argument on is Hindi's doctored video tapes than your argument does not hold water. Was Jesus a vegetarian??
Posted by Brandx on December 31, 2007 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And so it continues.....
Mr.Mills,
Larry McMurty's feelings on rodeo are well known but I would like clarification on the following comment.
" And this, from the same book: "[Louise Serpa, rodeo photographer] sees cowboys as noble men--indeed, a few of them are noble. I see them as physically competent but emotionally limited men who are in most cases sexist, chauvinistic, xenophobic, quasi-fascistic, and not infrequently dull."
Was the entire comment made by Ms. Serpa or simply the statement that cowboys are noble men?
Louise Serpa, for those who may not be familiar with her work, has been a photographer for over forty years and in my opinion is the finest rodeo photographer ever. Period.
As for Allen Bach, he is a fine man but personally I myself have never seen the link between the sport of rodeo, or any other sport for that matter, and Jesus.
As for the subject of cruelty to animals and rodeo the facts are that animals are hurt and killed, generally in roping events by competitors that are using illegal maneuvers, throws etc. The PRCA will fine these competitors and take away their points but you are still left with a dead animal. I think a lifetime ban from the sport would be a more suitable deterrent.
Facts are in rodeo, as in every aspect of life, you have people, stock contractors, who take better care of their livestock than they do their children and then there are others that probably should be arrested for cruelty to animals.
Now it's time for someone to state their rebuttal so this argument can continue, mud slinging,name calling and all. Ropers will rope, activist's will protest, animals will die and nothing will change.
Happy New Year!
Posted by shindi on December 31, 2007 at 2:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brandx: If the PRCA, or the rodeo industry for that matter is legitimate, why do you feel that animal injury reports an kept private, and why are violators and their fines not posted for public review? Would this not force a good deal of change? Perhaps I have answered my own question.
In my opinion, you are absolutely correct that a lifetime ban on bad actors would be a deterrent. Of course if rodeo judges did their job...
Sorry, no arguing, etc., with your arguments. It's good stuff. Have you applied for the job of PRCA commissioner? They need a progressive leader there very, very badly.
Posted by jill on December 31, 2007 at 4:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian,
I grew up on the central coast, rodeo central. I was in 4-H, owned horses, barrel raced. I was friends with cowboys and attended many of the Elks rodeos right alongside them. I watched a steer get its neck broken during roping. It was paralyzed. It had to be dragged onto a flatbed out of the arena. The announcer was joking about turning it into tri-tip. And all the toothless mullets in the stands thought it was hilarious. I have seen the cruelty up close and personal, heard the cowboys joking about it, and of course it is real.
Maybe these rodeo cowboys who need to feed their families should go to school and learn something. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to hurt animals. Maybe they can learn to use their brains instead of violence. Are you trying to say they love these animals they are torturing? Hilarious! What a way to show love.
PETA and SHARK both have educated members and supporters in high places. I think the more educated you are, the more compassionate you become. That's why cowboys have no compassion. They're, well, not too smart.
A couple interesting bible verses:
"Thou shalt not kill." (Notice it doesn't say "Thou shalt not murder"? Murder only refers to humans, killing to all living creatures.)
"Kill not, neither eat the flesh of your innocent prey, lest you become the slaves of Satan. For that is the path of sufferings, and it leads unto death. But do the will of God, that his angels may serve you on the way of life. Obey, therefore, the words of God: 'Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to everything that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is breath of life, I give every green herb for meat." (hmmm, sounds like a vegetarian to me!)
Posted by shindi on December 31, 2007 at 5:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, SHARK's extensive video library of rodeos has been extensively used by local, national and international media, as well as legislators and the courts. The media people are experts in video, and would spot "doctored" video in a heartbeat. Your assertion is baseless.
The authenticity of the video is why the rodeo industry is so fearful of it. Why do rodeo supporters have to rely on false accusations?
Posted by spook on December 31, 2007 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The Shark website is a joke!
They are just a drop in the hog bucket, just 1,2,3,4,5,...1000 out of 6,602,224,175. I hope they do not wear leather, and they are a vegi people! God forbid they are a hypocrit too!
Posted by jill on December 31, 2007 at 6:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Hey spook,
The only reason SHARK doesn't have more videos is that SHARK can't be at every single rodeo. Otherwise they would have thousands of videos. I wish SHARK were a joke. Sadly, it is not, and people really do those horrible things to animals.
FYI, I am vegan and don't wear leather. Good try, though.
Posted by spook on December 31, 2007 at 7:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Good to hear that you are not a hypocrit like so many that bash the rodeo. BTW, I hope you do not have any photos on the fridge? Since the gelatin comes from the hooves and noses of cattle. BTW, skip the jello too, since that is a by product and the lowest grade of gelatin.
Great to hear you are walking bear foot in your ways. Have a Happy New Year!
Posted by simpleman on December 31, 2007 at 8:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is a nice article about Allen Bach helping the younger generation with not only learning about a sport, but also enriching them in the development of a relationship with the Lord.
Posted by Brian on January 1, 2008 at 7:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jill, You would be surprised how many well educated cowboys there are. You choose to stereotype and make small minded comments about a group of people you know nothing about. Based on your above comments you have had little experience with the rodeo community as a whole. I have been riding bulls for 14 years and know first hand how the majority of these animals are treated (I also rode NIRA,college rodeo, so I do have a degree and am not a "toothless mullet"). Have a happy New Year. I am going to go throw a steak on the grill and watch the barbaric sport of football where humans actually inflict pain and suffering on other humans.
Posted by jill on January 1, 2008 at 8:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Spook,
No photos on my fridge and I would never touch jello or anything with gelatin in it. Yuck! I told you I'm vegan - and much better, skinnier and healthier for it.
Brian,
At least these humans CHOOSE to be in the game of football. I respect that they're not snapping calves necks. The animals just want to be left alone and live their lives. Enjoy your heart disease -- I mean steak.
It takes a small man to harm an animal and a real man to defend it.
Have a happy - and compassionate - new year!
Posted by spook on January 1, 2008 at 12:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You are right Jill, I defend my dog and ride my horse. I bet you do not have ancestors who rode horses nor ate animals...what planet are you from anyhow? Mars or Venus?
Educate yourself before popping off...at least I know your cause, since I too am not a toothless wonder and have studied Environmental Sci at the Masters level. So often your group stands at the fence hurl rocks and voice bombs, but don't have the guts to come in discuss with a rational voice.
BTW, it takes a BIG girl to get educated about both sides of the issue and a small girl stand at the fence! Put your words to work...:)
Posted by jill on January 1, 2008 at 4 p.m. (Suggest removal)
And some of us have ancesters who murdered, so by your rationale, I guess that makes murder okay. There's NO WAY you have a Master's or your comments would actually make sense! Too funny.
Posted by afa on January 1, 2008 at 6:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Dear Brandx - That entire quote was from Larry McMurtry re Louise Serpa. And I agree with you that she's the finest rodeo photographer ever--pure poetry. That said, I was intrigued that the book (RODEO, Aperture Books, NYC, 1994) would include commentary from Mr. McMurtry, who is so virulently anti-rodeo and anti-cowboy, a fact not known to me before I saw this book. It also contains these two gems from McMurtry:
"My gripe about rodeo, as publicly promoted, is that it wants both the lie and the truth: to be both the Wild West, and yet steeped in family values...."; and
"Bull riding and barrel racing are rodeo kabuki--their relation to anything that might happen on a ranch is confined to costume."
For the edification of the readers of these posts, I just received the 2007 rodeo injury reports from the California State Veterinary Medical Board, as required by law (which I drafted/sponsored in 1999). Are you ready for a miracle? A grand total of TWO! In 2006, NONE were submitted. In 2005, only one. Not possible. Animal injuries are not uncommon on the rodeo circuit. (I was at the California Rodeo/Salinas in 1995 when FIVE animals died in a single weekend.) What with some 250 CA rodeos held annually, there should be several dozen injury reports submitted every year. Something is obviously amiss--either the "on call" vets are not being summoned, or there's a coverup of major proportions going on. I suspect the former. CA state law (Penal Code 596.7) allows for an "on call" vet at rodeos. This should be changed to require an ON SITE at all rodeo and charreadas, to be fair. (Our state law was recently amended so as to include the Mexican-style rodeos. The new law went into effect today, 1/1/08).
The PRCA (since 1995) requires on-site veterinarians at all its rodeos, as do Alameda and Contra Costa Counties, the Hayward Rowell Ranch, the Cities of San Francisco and Los Angeles, the Solano County Fair, and the California State Fair. Ditto horse shows and thoroughbred race tracks. THERE SHOULD BE SUCH A REQUIREMENT AT EVERY RODEO AND CHARREADA IN THE U.S. It's only fair. Most every rodeo has on-site paramedics and ambulances to care for injured cowboys/girls, as well they should. The animals deserve this equal consideration. For most, rodeo is merely a detour en route to the slaughterhouse. And no, you don't have to be a vegetarian to care about animal welfare. Wouldn't hurt, though.
Happy New Year, all.
Sincerely,
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
Oakland
afa@mcn.org
Posted by JanetE on January 1, 2008 at 9:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I looked at some of the YouTube links posted by "shindi." The treatment of rodeo animals is repulsive and very, very disturbing. How can anyone consider this entertaining? Any claim that this abuse is associated with anything Godly is totally false.
"Brian" claims these videos are doctored. I actually hope he is right. Brian, how are the videos doctored? If they are not, those involved in rodeos should be prosecuted.
Posted by shindi on January 2, 2008 at 5:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Eric Mills correctly states that PRCA rules require a veterinarian be present at all of its rodeos. However, SHARK investigators have found that this PRCA rule, like other rodeo humane rules, is made to be broken.
In just the last year or so investigators found no evidence of vets at PRCA rodeos that even included the 2006 Illinois state fair and the 2007 PRCA National Steer Roping Finals in Hobbs, New Mexico.
This is likely because the cost of a vet is likely to be many hundreds of dollars -- perhaps more than a thousand, while the fine for NOT having a vet is a mere couple hundred bucks. It is far cheaper to violate the law.
At other PRCA rodeos where vets are present, they have no authority, as a read of the PRCA rules will confirm.
PRCA humane rules are a public relations ploy, nothing more. Mr. Mills is correct that the vet rule needs to be made law, and it needs to be enforced by police, not cowboy wannabes.
Posted by Brian on January 2, 2008 at 7:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
What are your "investigators" credentials? What background do you have to have to become a SHARK investigator? Are they non-biased towards your cause and professional rodeo?
Posted by shindi on January 2, 2008 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian,
You have made a number of interesting statements. You claim SHARK is "extreme." There is nothing extreme about using a videocam, so why pretend otherwise?
You claim that SHARK videos are "doctored." Why say such a thing when it is not true? The camera records what is in front of it. Any "doctoring" would be immediately spotted by the media who regularly gets our videos.
You ask about whether SHARK investigators are biased. Let's look at worse case scenario. How can a "biased" investigator film a rodeo person shocking a horse, unless he shocked a horse? How can abuses be filmed if they didn't happen?
The key is for rodeos to stop abusing animals. Then there will be nothing left to film.
Posted by Brian on January 2, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Steve, You have your agenda, I understand that. If all your organization does is video...than great. You know that is untrue just as well as I. Your "cowboy criminal" page is a complete joke. Of course there are a handful of bad apples in any business or sport. But to try and stereotype a group of people based on actions of a few to further your agenda is pitiful. Also, I would call flying some sort of aircraft over a legal hunt a little "extreme". Half truths and a few video's doesn't seem to be working...the PBR continues to be one of the fastest growing professional sports in the world. Those bulls are far from mistreated.
Posted by shindi on January 2, 2008 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian,
I mentioned SHARK's www.CowboyCriminals.com site in response to a personal attack from someone else. The people listed on that site are, or were in numerous cases significant people in the rodeo industry, yes? And it was quite a handful - nearly two dozen individuals - involved in some very heinous stuff.
Flying aircraft over a legal hunt is hardly extreme, nor is it illegal. We investigated one PBR rodeo in Illinois, and as a result, two stock contractors were charged with and convicted of cruelty for shocking bulls. One can only imagine what will happen when we turn our attention to more PBR events.
Most of our efforts are directed at the PRCA, and I believe our YouTube videos demonstrate the kind of abusive and underhanded stuff goes on, even at the most recent National Finals Rodeo.
Posted by Brian on January 2, 2008 at 6:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Give me a break Steve...significant people in the rodeo industry?? Besides Larry Lancaster (sicko), and Ellerman I don't see one. If those are the only examples you can find than that shows the quality of people involved in this sport (two dozen out of thousands and thousands). Some of your examples have nothing to do with rodeo at all. Which contractors were charged and convicted because of cruelty at a PBR event?? Yes, flying an aircraft over a legal hunt is illegal, especially while you have a restraining order against you. The reason the PBR is growing so rapidly only shows how many folks do not agree with your accusations and beliefs.
Posted by shindi on January 2, 2008 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian,
We aren't supposed to stray off topic here, so let me say that if Mr. Bach truly believes that rodeo falls within the boundaries of Jesus' teachings, perhaps he could impose on the PRCA to divulge animal injury and death reports, and to publicize the names and penalties of rodeo folk who have violated rodeo humane rules. SHARK has identified so many of those people.
Mr. Bach, or the author of this article (Brett Hoffman) should step up and respond to these questions. If rodeo wants to be considered even a legitimate sport, much less a Godly one, someone oughta Cowboy Up.
As for the other stuff, it is all open to debate anytime a rodeo person has what it takes to accept my challenge...
Posted by spook on January 3, 2008 at 5 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Shindi,
How many people rodeo in just the US? So you are saying you are going to take a sum of 24 or so to racialize the rest? Shark is going to discriminate against the majority in order to pursue a few bad apples? Come on...do something better with your time and volunteer to the poor or other programs that benifit the people in this country!
Posted by jill on January 3, 2008 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Hindi has no need to doctor videos. Pooleeze! And when you watch them, they're obviously not doctored. That's all the supporters of rodeo can say, because the videos speak the truth, and they don't want the public to see rodeo for what it really is.
There is no such thing as a cruelty-free rodeo. What happens to these animals would be punishable under the law if they were dogs or cats, so why is it allowed to happen to docile calves? Mr. Bach and anybody who takes part in rodeos are causing pain and injury to animals, plain and simple.
I doubt that Jesus would condone such an evil thing. I seriously doubt that Mr. Bach has an interest in saving kids' souls. I think his real interest is money and glory. His hypcracy disgusts me.
Posted by afa on January 3, 2008 at 10:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Just for the record, I've been working on rodeo and charreada reforms since the early 1980's, on the local, state and national levels, well before I ever heard of Steve Hindi. I think Hindi has done some great work on the rodeo issue, and we have worked together in the past. Although we have quite different approaches, I have never seen an iota of evidence that Hindi has ever lied about rodeo, or doctored any of his impressive collection of videotapes. The evidence speaks for itself. Anybody who thinks that rodeos are harmless to animals is about two sandwiches short of a picnic.
Cheers,
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
Oakland
Posted by Brian on January 4, 2008 at 6:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr Mills, You are from Oakland California?? Not quite the mecka of rodeo country. My argument here is that your organizations take isolated incidents and try to create the illusion that every rodeo organization, competitor, contractor, etc. is or are participating in inhumane acts or are "criminals". This stereotyping is ridiculous and unfounded. Mr. Bach is doing something positive for kids...I would say that is actually a worthy cause. Spend your time and energy on a worthy cause such as helping today's youth and you probably would get much more fulfillment out of it. Animal welfare is a worthy cause that the rodeo community embraces as much or more than anyone. Fighting for animal "rights" is a senseless cause. Ingrid Newkirk and her Hollywood PETA cronies comparing slaughterhouses to the Jewish Holocaust...now that is time and resources well spent. PETA, SHARK, and the like just remind us where our priorities in this country have gone...down the drain. Cudo's Mr. Bach for doing something worthwhile with your time and God given skills.
Posted by Brian on January 4, 2008 at 7:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Jill, Do you believe in Bigfoot also...just because you saw a video of him running through the woods on the Sci-Fi channel. I believe you are so one sided on this issue that you would never take the time to listen to the truth. You have your blinders on.
Posted by jill on January 4, 2008 at 8:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian,
No, I don't believe in Bigfoot. Pretty sarcastic.
All of the videos flow smoothly along with the announcers. That's crazy to say they are doctored. I'm sure the paralyzed calf in the latest video was doctored. Once again, trying to avoid the real issue here, the undeniable cruelty grown "men" (neanderthals) do to innocent living beings. What is the "truth", the other side of this issue you want me to consider? Kindness to animals in the rodeo arena? I don't think so.
Think how lucky you are when you're asleep at night and you and your children are safe and healthy. Then think about the fear and pain these animals go through. Wow, lucky you. Can you not be compassionate? Maybe there is an afterlife where you can come back as a rodeo calf. Then you can get your testicles removed, get branded and have your horns chopped off - all without anesthesia. Then you can get clotheslined by a monster on a horse, paralyzed and roped.
Posted by Brian on January 4, 2008 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Yes, I can be compassionate. I am very compassionate towards my animals. But I am not so ignorant to compare them to my children. That is the reason we will never agree on any of these issues. You see a calf the same way you see a child...wow, that is scarry. Ok, we all become vegans..what do you propose we do with all the cattle, deer, etc.,etc. when they over populate and start starving and destroying our land. Oh, thats right, they are comparable to humans so I am sure they will run off like the 3 little pigs and build there own homes and become self sufficient.
Posted by jill on January 4, 2008 at 11:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian,
I don't see animals in the same way I see children; however, animals do feel fear and pain just as we do. I was just trying to get you to put yourself in their place. You see, that's the definition of compassion, sympathy. I should have known that would be asking too much.
FYI: The production of animals for meat causes more pollution, damage to the ozone and more waste than everything else combined, including automobiles. If we stopped breeding animals for food, clothing, etc., they wouldn't be taking over the earth like you seem to think. That's silly. Nature will take care of itself. Humans are the ones who have messed up the balance of nature.
Posted by afa on January 4, 2008 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"mecka"?! "Cudo's"?! You really do need to get Spell-Check, Brian.
FYI, there are any number of rodeos within 30 miles of where I live: Hayward Rowell Ranch, Livermore, the Grand National at the S.F. Cow Palace, Woodside, Antioch, etc. Plus a charreada arena in Sunol. Not that it matters--animal abuse has no boundaries.
As it happens, I drafted the rodeo animal welfare policy at the Rowell Ranch in the mid-80's after seeing a horse break his leg in the chutes. He was kicked and electric-prodded to get him onto three feet, forced to hobble out of the arena, then shot to death with a cop's gun. Three roping calves ran head-long into the fence, due to the lack of signage. One of them broke his nose and palate--no veterinarian on site to care for any of this, as we had been promised. This was a police officers' rodeo, ironically a benefit for crippled kids, if you can believe it. That rodeo was subsequently banned forever from that arena.
As for animal welfarists "wasting our time on unimportant issues," may I remind you that it was the American SPCA which was the first organization in this country to advocate for the welfare of children, as well as animals.
And it was Gandhi who wrote that, "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
And this, from Cesar Chavez, "Kindness and compassion towards all living things is a mark of a civilized society. Conversely, cruelty, whether it is directed against human beings or against animals, is not the exclusive province of any one culture or community of people. Racism, economic deprival, dog fighting and c--- fighting, bullfighting and RODEOS are cut from the same faric: violence. Only when we have become nonviolent towards all life will we have learned to live well ourselves."
It's clear that caring about people does not preclude compassion for animals.
Brian, you spend a lot of time criticizing people for working to better the plight of animals. I'd like to hear from you exactly what you're doing to help people.
Lastly, I'd suggest you cut the sarcasm. It is neither becoming to you, nor helpful to your cause. Rather, it seems to confirm Larry McMurtry's low opinion of cowboys and the cowboy life. (See above.)
Kind regards,
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
And a P.S. - I am on friendly terms with a number of cowboys and stock contractors who share many of my rodeo concerns. Cotton Rosser himself told me a few years back that, "Eric, we have to do something about calf roping. It's hurting all of rodeo." So what did the PRCA do? They changed the name to "tie down roping"! The mind boggles.
Posted by shindi on January 4, 2008 at 2:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Spook, When I can list some two dozen rodeo folk that range from the former commissioner of the PRCA, to some of the association's biggest stock contractors, to prominent contestants (including one calling himself the King of the Cowboys), and even a major sponsor as convicted criminals, I think that says something about the rodeo industry.
More important is the long, long list of rodeos nationwide that SHARK has documented violating the very humane rules of their own respective rodeo associations, not to mention very often state humane laws as well.
The rodeos SHARK has documented violating humane rules range from the very small to the very largest, including Cheyenne and Pendleton, right up to the 2007 National Finals Rodeo, where horses were shocked by the Vice Chairman of the PRCA right in front of the association's judges, top stock contractors and contestants.
Rodeo people will of course blow this off. Denial and diversion is standard operating procedure for the industry. But this is also why the rodeo industry is in trouble. Its credibility is shot. The Internet is making the video evidence of abuses available to the world.
It is just a matter of time before rodeo people themselves kill off their Hollywood-created image by their misbehavior. It will take much, much more than hiding behind God, as in the case of Mr. Bach's roping school, to save this animal abuse.
You know, matadors pray before they and their killing teams enter bullrings to systematically torture their debilitated victims to death. It is so very repulsive when animal abusers try to hide behind God.
Steve Hindi
SHARK
SHARKonline.org
RodeoCruelty.com
Posted by Brian on January 5, 2008 at 12:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Mills,
I always enjoy those who point out spelling errors in an attempt to make themselves seem superior. Why do you keep mentioning Larry McMurtry? He is a fictional writer that has nothing to do with Rodeo. He writes some good books but so does Stephen King...I wonder what his views on rodeo are? Did Ghandi spend a lot of time around rodeo as well? Quit dropping these names that have no bearing on the conversation. As far as cutting the sarcasm as it's not helpful to my cause. What is my cause? Rodeo is not a cause, it is a sport. A sport that will continue to grow rapidly in popularity because the general population does not agree with your cause in regards to rodeo. I have not crititcized peoples plight for the welfare of animals. I criticize people for twisting the truth, stereotyping, using random quotes by people irrelevant to the issues. Mr Mills, I do not feel animal welfare is unimportant. You and Mr. Hindi's focus on Rodeo is what is a complete waste of your time. Mr. Hindi, you can insinuate that folks involved with Rodeo are repulsive animal abusers, I would not expect less of you. Problem is, for you, with the fastest growing sport in the world (bullriding) bringing in record numbers of fans, it doesn't seem many feel the same. Right now the PBR is in Madison Square Garden for three days selling out performances to the city folks of New York City.
Posted by Brian on January 5, 2008 at 12:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
By the way, since Hindi won't come out and say it..Ty Murray is the one he refers to when talking about the King of the Cowboy's. Ty Murray does not refer to himself as such, that name was given to him based on his legendary status in Rodeo. He is actually a very humble guy. The reason he made Hindi's Criminal Cowboy list is because he jumped on the back of a cow Elk in Colorado to try and ride it. Of course no rope was used, no chute, nothing or no one harmed. It was in the wild. He got a citation. I think I will start the Criminal Activist page. I bet I could find dozens more examples to but on my page. Hindi could occupy one as he actually did jail time...not just cited for having some fun.
Posted by jill on January 5, 2008 at 1:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe Mr. Mills is just pointing out the obvious - that people who enjoy seeing animals injured aren't too smart.
What people who support rodeos seek to gain:
Money
Glory
Entertainment? (sad)
What people who are against rodeos seek to gain:
Nothing (for themselves at least)
It's for the well-being of others, the animals. And I thank God that we have people like that in the world.
Posted by shindi on January 5, 2008 at 2:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, I do not insinuate that rodeo people are repulsive animal abusers, I state it directly and emphatically, based on well over a deacade of rodeo video documentation shot all over the United States.
The last couple times I heard about sellout crowds was at the PRCA's Steer Busting Finals and the National Finals Rodeo. I was at both, and neither were sold out. The steer busters were letting people in for free to try to make the place look like it had anyone in it. I am not in NYC for that event, but I doubt very much that it is sold out either.
In any case, increasing interest really doesn't equate with legitimacy, does it? If there was a record number of people attending crack houses, does that mean anything good?
I have been hearing that rodeo is the fastest growing sport for many years. Historical ads show that the pitch has been made since rodeo's inception. It wasn't true then, and it isn't true now.
I did not name Mr. Murray as to avoid the appearance of a personal attack. Thanks for doing it for me. What you may not realize, and likely don't care about, is that running down an elk via snowmobile in the winter, and then riding it after it is exhausted can lead to a death sentence for the victim. As I said, I realize that rodeo people don't care about these "minor details," but I am confident that real people do.
As for the "King of the Cowboys" title, that's what Mr. Murray calls his book. He obviously chose the title himself. So much for humility.
The debate offer still stands...
Posted by Brian on January 5, 2008 at 4:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Steve, I doubt anyone would have a problem having an educated, civil debate with you on the subject. Problem is you seem to want to challenge people to physcial figts and make it a circus (by the way, why not go after the circus folks?) atmosphere. The PBR is the fastest growing sport and that is fact. Does that increasing interest make it legitimate? Yes, if the majority of the U.S. population feels it is legitimate and that nothing inhumane is going on (which is not). Ty Murray of course helped with his Biography, but did not write it or name it. You do not know anything about him personally, and although it is not worth arguing over, he was not the one who named it. As for personal attacks I have done no such thing. Mr. Hindi, I do not know you personally and anything that is not a proven fact and public record I would never bring up. While I appreciate your passion, I strongly disagree with your tactics. We obviously will agree to disagree and would love to debate anytime in a professional manner. Mr. Mills, sorry to offend by my complete disregard for spell check. I will run my work through Mr. McMurtry's editor next time. Jill, no comment as you have not added much in substance to the discussion. Don't forget to tune into NBC tomorrow to watch the PBR on national television. Should be a great bull riding. God Bless.
Posted by del on January 5, 2008 at 4:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The PBR, PRCA along with the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, NASCAR, et cetera ad nauseam; just legitimate (by Brian’s definition) "Bread and Circuses" for the (expletive deleted) masses as they continue to be 'dummied down'.
Posted by shindi on January 5, 2008 at 4:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, Dr. Doug Corey was the last person to debate me, on life Las Vegas television just before the National Finals Rodeo over ten years ago. He had a lot of problems. There was no fight, and it wasn't a circus, he just lost because I had video evidence and he had nothing. By the way, we have dealt with some circuses in our area, and they no longer stop here.
I would guess that more people attend dogfights nationally than PBR events. Bullfighting attendance is likely greater than PBR a number of times over. The attendance doesn't legitimize any of them.
"King of the Cowboys" was written by Ty Murry and Steve Eubanks. Not surprisingly Mr. Murray's name appears first. I think that makes for a pretty persuasive argument as to whom chose the title.
SHARK's tactics are composed of videotaping issues and distributing video to media, courts, legislators, Internet, and when it applies, sponsors. That's really more on the order of investigative journalism than activism.
We certainly have more journalistic integrity than the cheerleaders who are generally referred to as rodeo reporters and rodeo columnists, like Mr. Hoffman. He can't even bring himself to write about the score tampering at the NFR.
Posted by Brian on January 5, 2008 at 7:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm sure you had your share of problems at the debate as well. More people attend dog fights than the PBR??? Now you are just getting ridiculous. The only thing you share with the public is your video's. We both know that is not all you are involved in. I'm sure the circus still comes to Illinois despite your statement and will get facts to proove that if you feel the need to keep up that distortion of the truth. If you had all this so called evidence of continuous criminal activity on the part of the PRCA, PBR, etc., they would be gone. Fact is they are legitimate, and humane as far as the public and the law sees things...I understand you see things differently. "on life Las Vegas television". Oh my gosh, Mr. Mills will now consider you a dumb cowboy because of your bad use of the english language.
Posted by shindi on January 5, 2008 at 8:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, First, there are no cowboys in the rodeo -- only wannabes. Real cowboys are out working, not avoiding getting real jobs by performing in a westernized circus.
Brett Hoffman has obviously written a very controversial piece. When is he going to step up and take part in the discussion? When is he going to write about the debacles at the steer busting finals in Hobbs, where injured victims were left in a trailer without vet care? When will he write about the shocking of horses at the NFR, when supposedly only the very best animals were brought in?
Where is the Cowboy Up, Brett? Don't leave it all up to Brian and Spook!
Posted by Brandx on January 6, 2008 at 3:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I have been sitting back and reading the last few days posts and find it time to finally comment.
Mr Mills; thank you for clarification on the Louise Serpa quote.
Real Cowboys don't compete in rodeo events and would be left for dead rather than be a part of what they view as the hideous spectacle of the degeneration western culture that has become rodeo.
The only person that thinks Ty Murray is "King of the Cowboys" is Ty Muray.
Shindi;if score tampering is taking place at the NFR by all means please supply more facts and name names. This needs to be brought into the open.
Posted by Brian on January 6, 2008 at 6:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Most rodeo cowboys don't make a living in the sport...only the top ones. Most have other jobs that include cowboy work. BrandX obviously knows little about Ty Murray. He owns and works his own ranch where he also takes in retired bucking horses to live out their days on his place. When they pass on he has grave markers made specific to each horse and has them buried on his place. He is a cowboy all the way. What is BrandX's definition of a cowboy? Something you read in a Larry McMurtry novel? Hndi, you have no idea what a real cowboy is so don't pretend to. Do you not think calves get roped outside of rodeo...by "real cowboy's"?
Posted by Brandx on January 6, 2008 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, I believe the general term is "Horse rescue" and there are thousands of them run by volunteers who manage to do it with much less to work with than Ty Murray has. To allow yourself to be called "King of the Cowboys" is simply pompous.
Posted by Brian on January 6, 2008 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't take it so literally. He is a heck of a cowboy and the name came from his record of 7 all around world titles. I doubt if you ask him if he considers himself the "King of the Cowboys" that his answer would be yes. I would wait until I actually met someone and got to know them before I would call them pompus. Whether or not Ty Murray is financially in better shape than others than participate in horse rescue means nothing. The fact is he does it. Lots of people contribute to global education programs but it doesn't make Bill Gates any less admirable because he does it as well.
Posted by shindi on January 6, 2008 at 12:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brandx, We have a YouTube video up about the score tampering:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9T6c...
As the video states, the man doing the shocking is PRCA Vice Chairman Charles Soileau. SHARK has sent the information in the video to numberous rodeo reporters, including Ed Knocke of the Dallas Paper, and Brett Hoffman of the Fort Worth paper. No one in the rodeo world will report it. It was reported by some of the Las Vegas television stations, and we included the PRCA's statement in the YouTube video.
Posted by Brandx on January 6, 2008 at 12:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, the comparison to Gates is humorus and seeing as how you have no idea who I am you may not want to jump to the conclusion we have never met.
Posted by jill on January 6, 2008 at 4:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Mills & Mr. Hindi~
I'm afraid your knowledge, energy and time is wasted on a couple commentors on this board. They are simply lacking a compassion chip and refuse to see the obvious. But I'm glad you've gotten the word out, because of this article, to others who do care about the welfare of innocent animals but may not have realized the injuries and death they suffer at the hands of these brutal men.
The God I'm familiar with would never approve of such cruelty.
Posted by Chuck on January 7, 2008 at 12:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Mr. Mills & Mr. Hindi: your knowledge energy and time is not wasted because tonight I saw the video and I can't wait to read Brandx's response since he asked for proof and you gave it to him. I can see why no one in the rodeo world will report it because how can anyone defend what is going on in the video? Thank you for getting the truth out into the open. I'm with Jill, the God I'm familiar with would never approve of such cruelty.
Posted by Brian on January 7, 2008 at 5:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You are correct in that I do not know who you are BrandX. Enlighten me, or at least give examples of your interactions with Mr. Murray that would make you consider him "pompus".
Posted by cassie on January 24, 2008 at 10:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)
In regards to SHARK/PETA/Animal Rights Activists and especially Jill, the ex-barrel racer, you do so much more harm than good. Not every rodeo is carried out the way it should be and yes there is always bad apples within every sport or group of living breathing people. This isn't a perfect world with perfect people, but how can you say all these cruel things about people like me. A simple college student, ahem Jill listen up, who is earning her degree, is on the dean's list, and rodeos. I love what I do and so does my horse and the other animals too. Do you know how I know? It's in their hearts. When you truly understand an animal and create a bond with that animal you can tell even the most minute personalities. My horse gets so excited he just can't control himself when he walks into that pen he knows what he's going to do and LOVES it, he actully gets irritated if I don't run him on a regular bases. Our goats love our horses, in fact just the other day one of our goats we use to goat tie snuggled right up with my horse and they buddied up for a good hour or so while I cleaned my horses stall. Our bucking stock truly love what they do because every time they come into the practice pens they become alert and playful with each other and when they are in those chutes they know what they are there for and they LOVE it. Our calves are same way they like our horses and don't mind being roped and when not in practice they get to spend their leisure time in one of the largest pastures I've ever seen. Now, I know not all stock is treated like we treat ours, but not all stock is treated badly as you say either. Please stop being so derogitory, you don't need to call us stupid, many of us are far from stupid with a majority holding other jobs besides rodeo and making a living for ourselves. Last, Jill you were around rodeo, you even competed, of all people you say you have become more knowledgable thus producing these "compasionate" feelings for the animals, well to me it seems like you've just turned into a bully that calls people names and makes others feel bad to make herself feel good.. isn't that what mom always used to say?
Posted by shindi on January 27, 2008 at 11:06 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Cassie, SHARK's fifteen years of experience with rodeos show a clear and consistent pattern of indefensible animal abuse, and our experience is documented by massive amounts of video and still pictures.
Every rodeo association we have investigated is cruel and lacking in the extreme. We're not talking about just a few "bad apples." SHARK has investigated and exposed some of the biggest rodeos in the country, right up to the NFR, as well as the biggest stock contractors and the biggest contestants.
Were there just a few bad apples, the associations could deal with them harshly and that would be it, but there's nothing that can be done to make steer busting less cruel, just as an example. There is clearly no desire to stop the shocking of animals to force them to "perform." When the Vice Chairman of the PRCA Board of Directors is videotaped secretly shocking animals at the NFR, that is an indictment against the entire industry.
I realize you love rodeos. People involved in dogfighting, c---fighting, pigeon shooting and bullfighting love what they do as well, of that I have no doubt. That doesn't make what they do any less cruel or more defensible, sorry.
Getting back to the main theme with regard to the original story prompting all this back and forth, rodeo surely is NOT aligned with the teachings of Jesus. You cannot point to one single instance wherein Jesus took pleasure in the fear, suffering, maiming and deaths of animals. Not one.
Posted by Brian on January 28, 2008 at 6:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You're correct Hindi, there is no "instance wherein Jesus took pleasure in the fear, suffering, maiming and deaths of animals". What does that have to do with the above story??? Mr. Bach and rodeo do not take such pleasures either. Good post Cassie but i'm afraid you will only get more of the nonsense you got in Hindi's response if you continue to try and educate these radicals.
Posted by shindi on February 7, 2008 at 11:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, SHARK's extensive video collection, not mention common sense, leaves absolutely no doubt that rodeo animals buck and run because of the pain, fear and harassment they receive at the hands of rodeo people.
What is "radical" is the claim that this can be aligned with the teachings of Jesus.
Posted by Brian on February 8, 2008 at 4:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Hindi, you are losing in your pointless quest against rodeo.
Posted by shindi on February 15, 2008 at 5:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian, Since you claim we are "losing," you won't mind if we continue documenting and exposing the abuses. I just wonder why the PRCA and other rodeo associations keep falsely claiming copyright on their performances.
Posted by Brian on March 1, 2008 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Don't mind at all. The more you "expose" the more you discredit yourself with your silly propoganda. PBR in Baltimore this weekend...should be a great bull riding. How about Renato Nunes riding Chicken on a Chain for 95.75 point last weekend. PBR...the fastest growing sport in the world (fact).
Posted by shindi on March 9, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Brian: Here is a fact. In the last three months, SHARK has exposed three major rodeos for shocking animals to make them appear wild and rank -- the NFR in Las Vegas in December, the Denver Rodeo in January, and the Tucson Rodeo in February. As the organization grows, we'll expose two a month, and then three and, well, you get the idea.
This is organized animal abuse, and thinking people are learning the truth.
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