Posted by george1234 on December 27, 2007 at 2:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Someone needs to shoot him and end the problem. But then there would be several car washes to pay for the idiot's funeral. Oh well, it would still be worth it.

Posted by jjp009 on December 27, 2007 at 6:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Wow, what a description! A male in his 20's with a medium build. They just described 75% of the population. Since they kept that description to their politically correct standard of not identifying his race, that means he was NOT white, because if he was, they would have been able to say that. And a dog killer, besides! Unfortunately, dogs are considered personal property, so if they do catch this piece of feces, he'll get a slap on the wrist, then they'll cut him a welfare check and send him for some free health care before they sentence him to three months probation.

Posted by dcsfancy on December 27, 2007 at 6:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am sure this scumbag will continue to rob places and hopefully he will be caught. If he is lucky he will enter someones residence who has a gun that will shoot him. Such a coward this piece of sh--.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on December 27, 2007 at 6:17 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well I certainly hope they catch this creep. Smart kids to not open the doors to strangers ! Hopefully we teach all our children to never open the door to people we dont know. I can only imagine the fear they must have felt. Thank God the kids are physically ok.

Posted by lrgvanman on December 27, 2007 at 6:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

It could happen in Anywhere, USA. Lay off of Oxnard, would you? Ventura and Simi Valley have had theirs recently, too. Oxnard IS, indeed, more than a pretty name but L.A., for instance, has looked to them for advice on gang resolutions. This act and other crimes are everywhere buddy and you had better believe it. Some where, some time, this creep will make a costly mistake and hopefully will pay dearly for it.

Posted by EagleEye on December 27, 2007 at 6:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This shows us that we need tough judges who will sentence criminals like Roy Bean did years ago. No whimps in black robes!

Posted by Hueneme_girl29 on December 27, 2007 at 7:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Poor puppy :(
Probably didnt even try to attack, the guy was just a coward and got a little scared of a dog and killed it. What an a_ _ hole.

Posted by 2KooL4U on December 27, 2007 at 7:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I'd love for this a--hole to break into my house - it would give me the perfect reason to shoot this dog murderer!!! I hope he's caught by dog-lovers and then turned over to the police!!!!!!!!!

Posted by lyn_uk1 on December 27, 2007 at 7:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

B*****D..thats all that can be said for him. Thank goodness the kids were safe. But, he will probably get off with a slap on the wrist.

Posted by cowchip on December 27, 2007 at 8:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I can't think of a more cowardly thing to do than to kill an innocent animal. I'm sure that the guy who did this is too stupid to read, but if he is reading this...you are a complete piece of !@@! and you don't deserve to walk on this earth.

Posted by mesantia on December 27, 2007 at 8:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am glad the kids are safe, Sorry the dog died =(.
I hope that this a__ hole is found and a pack of German Shepherds get to use him as a chew toy. To me the Dog Zack saved those children by putting the attention on himself,ZACK IS A HERO to me and Smart thinking to the 16 yr old for hiding.Next time this person breaks into a house, the outcome might be worse.I hope the police find the person.

Posted by mantiger808 on December 27, 2007 at 8:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey jjp009, perhaps you would feel more comfortable being victimized by white people. Go move to Washington State, where six people were shot to death in their home...by a white person. Or maybe go shopping in Omaha... My point is that crime happens everywhere and it is not racially exclusive. If one area is heavily populated by a particular race, it stands to reason that the majority of incidents would involve that race...suspects and Victims! I agree with most of you posters...let him come to my house. I will leave the door open for him. Boom!...one less. Really though, we must be prepared to protect our families and homes. The kids did the right thing by not letting him in, but get to the phone and call 911 so the police can start their response to the scene.
Unless you move to Mars, crime happens in this free society of ours and can't be escaped. It can happen any time, anywhere. Be vigilant but enjoy life while you can and don't let racism consume you.

Posted by dkeith1397 on December 27, 2007 at 8:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The suspect was described by witnesses as being hispanic...that was included in the release I wrote and sent out yesterday to the media but the Star's policy is to not include reference to race. We believe that all information should be included in news reports, but the Star's feeling is a bit different. That's their perogative.

The dark colored car we believe he left the area in was described as being small, and very likely foreign.

Not sure either of these things will help much, but it is the information we have at this time.

David Keith
Spokesperson
Oxnard Police

Posted by jjp009 on December 27, 2007 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hey mantiger: Talk about missing the point! My problem is with the fact that if an assialant is any other race besides white, the media WILL NOT print his description! Get it? Therefore, we do not know whom we're supposed to be looking for until he commits another crime. My comments had NOTHING to do with his race and everything to do with how the media is targeted by non-caucasians if they print the race of a suspect (if he happens to be their particular race), thereby further jeopardizing the public's safety. Come on, man...look deeper. PS Read the post by David Keith of the O.P.D. above mine. See what I mean yet?

Posted by ironwoman on December 27, 2007 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The STAR should print out all of the FACTS!!! If race is such an issue with the paper, that is their problem. Stop trying to be politically correct and be honest and truthful.
This is a terrible story. These poor kids lost their dog because of a coward. I hope he is caught and justice is served.

Posted by jjp009 on December 27, 2007 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes catlover: This "man" had a gun and surely would have shot the kids if they got in his way, but instead killed an innocent animal that probably approached him with a wagging tail, and the media wants to PROTECT him by not offering a complete description of him (despite having it from the O.P.D. as we now know thanks to Mr. Keith) so that we can look out for him! Is anyone else enraged by this??

Posted by dkeith1397 on December 27, 2007 at 9:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One other bit of info not included in the story was the description of the suspects clothing. Witnesses stated that he was wearing a dark colored hooded sweatshirt (although the hood was not pulled up over his head) and he had on a gray beanie.

You never know - maybe this info will trigger a thought from someone and generate the lead we need to solve the case.

David Keith
Spokesperson
Oxnard PD

Posted by insideedge on December 27, 2007 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

What a dumb burgler, if he just would of cased the place for a minute he would of known that there were kids home and a big dog. He must of been looking for something in particular.

Posted by dkeith1397 on December 27, 2007 at 9:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry, my mistake - the clothing description is at the top of the story...although it doesn't state that the beanie was gray.

David Keith
Spokesperson
Oxnard PD

Posted by bugmenot on December 27, 2007 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks David, appreciate any information we can get, especially directly from the source.

The people of this neighborhood need to remain vigilant, it seems this guy is local and not too intelligent. Sounds like he's suspected of other disturbances in the area.

Posted by Blizzy on December 27, 2007 at 10:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Blizzy thinks the Star is more concerned about offending people than public safety.

As of the 2000 census, approximately 33% of Ventura County was found to be Hispanic, I'm sure that is a higher number now. Just who is the Star worried they're going to offend? I'm offended they didn't include the ethnicity of the suspect.

Blizzy thinks perhaps the Star should be boycotted until these issues are resolved...but Blizzy has crazy notions about these things too...

Posted by shaver_one on December 27, 2007 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Instead of turning this coward into the police, turn him into the ASPCA. They can neuter him. One less progeny to deal with.
And, please remember, creep, the Second Amendment IS Homeland Security.

Posted by socalcandyman on December 27, 2007 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Ventura County Star needs to start printing a suspect's race. Being politically correct is not going to get them anywhere or more readers. If the Star believes that printint or describing a suspect's race is racial profiling or racist they need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid. Heck, the ACLU has gone on record that a suspect's race can be used to describe him or her and is not considered racial profiling. If the Star uses the lame excuse that the police agency did not provide the suspect's race, then it lacks credibility as a newspaper. Anytime there is a press release, the police agency releases it and even faxes it to the local news agencies. In addition, the Star needs to hire some good proofreaders (editors). On the second sentence it reads, "None of the children was injured." Children is plural! So it should read, "None of the children were injured."

Posted by mantiger808 on December 27, 2007 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I do agree that a full description of this, or any suspect should be posted by the media. It is the only way that we, as vigilant citizens can help to catch criminals. I do get the point, which is to stop this fool before he kills someone. I did not know it was a policy of the Star not to print race. That is ludicrous! If the suspect is white, we don't want to be looking for a black guy...or vise versa. dkeith1387 is right, that is the paper's perogative, but they are doing a disservice to the community that buys and reads their paper.
My main point is that there is us...and then there are the criminals. Regardless of their race we need to know what each specific suspect looks like so that we can adequately protect ourselves and help bring them to justice.

Posted by dkeith1397 on December 27, 2007 at 11:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have expressed my frustration many times to the Star about this policy. It is our belief (law enforcement) that the newspaper (and all media) have an obligation to print complete descriptions, as provided by the police, so as to ensure public safety.

I understand their interest to be "politically correct" - but I find it interesting they will print the sex of the suspect.....isn't this being insensitive to people's gender?

I'm not trying to be cute or funny, but when it comes to public safety - I just think the Star has a greater responsibility than being politically correct. And I suspect that the vast majority of their readers feel the same way as I do.

Just my two cents.

David Keith
Spokesperson
Oxnard PD

Posted by shaver_one on December 27, 2007 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The next question to the Star:
Do you folks actually read these comments?
If you do, then please take note of all of us who would like to know who these perps are, and how we can identify them.
If you don't read these comments...START.
Thanks, David, for the info.

Posted by angrygirl8284 on December 27, 2007 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I myself am half Hispanic and half white. I am more upset by the Star not including the facts as to be "P.C.". Facts are facts. I don't see how that can be offensive to anyone. I hope in the future the Star will include ALL facts beneficial to helping solve such a horrible crime as this.

Posted by Otani on December 27, 2007 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

We buy in North Oxnard, River Ridge more specifically, because of the exclusiveness of the neighborhood. We have enjoyed a quality of life, and sense of security that is second to none. We’ve become too comfortable over the last few years. The perpetrators know where to find us and are aware that many spend the holidays out of town. Even gated communities, high HOA’s and security will fail to deter these individuals. People will continue to resort to thievery in order to acquire the material items that our families have worked so hard to attain.

Posted by finnmcgowan on December 27, 2007 at 12:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

@vae4usc: "Too many kids these days are not fearfull of strangers."

I don't get it. Most "strangers" are perfectly nice people, who'd sooner secure your unlocked vehicle than steal its contents. (http://www.venturacountystar.com/news...)

Of course strangers forcefully entering your house is another matter entirely. I'm not sure if the kids in this home were frightened to your satisfaction, but they certainly responded intelligently and bravely.

We could all learn from this family. Be prepared. Think. Act. And refuse to be terrorized.

Posted by Comments on December 27, 2007 at 1:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I'm happy that the kids are ok, but sorry that they lost their beloved dog. What an incredibly cowardly act. There is no doubt in my mind that this "burglar" would've shot the children if he'd come across them in the home. He was clearly trigger happy if he shot a dog. I am curious as to why this is being called a burglary and not something else. From what I read it doesn't sound as though anything was taken from the house. This may have been an attempted burglary, but the perp may have had something far more sinister on his mind. Why did he leave the home so soon after having gained entry?

In any case, I agree with the folks here that the Star should absolutely be reporting full descriptions as provided by the police. I'm all for being politically correct, but that's just not an issue here. If the police have a description and distribute that description to the media, then the media has an obligation to us, their readers to print that information. Otherwise how are we to get it ourselves? As long as the Star sticks to the facts then no one should be able to accuse them of being unfair to any one group of people.

And, I also agree that the Star's proofing/copyediting is getting sloppier by the day. I realize that some of the quality controls get eased up in the faster paced online publishing arena. However, poor grammar and spelling errors, should be corrected. As a publishing professional I suppose I'm pickier then most though. So, I apologize for that, but these errors are like nails on a chalkboard to me :).

Posted by santabarbarasand on December 27, 2007 at 1:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't know why but it feels like maybe the kids knew this guy and didn't open the door because of it. Why would a 16 year old hide from someone knocking on the door? That strikes me as extremely odd...am I the only one that doesn't believe this story? How do we know that the kids weren't playing with a gun and accidentally (or intentionally) shoot the dog?! Seriously, this story just doesn't make sense to me, something is missing. Maybe I'm too suspiciuos but I think those kids are lying through their teeth about what happened!

Posted by stave1 on December 27, 2007 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't understand why anyone would think that a German Shephard would be calm and wagging it's tail with a burgler in the home. That would make that dog worthless. My German Shephards would have been showing their teeth and growling to get that guy out of the home. That's what they are supposed to do.

Posted by JenLynn on December 27, 2007 at 3:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Star has failed as a local newspaper! Last week in Camarillo 2 people were arrested leaving a home on my street. They had just finished burglarizing it. They are the same people who have burglarized at least 15 other homes in 3 weeks in Camarillo. The Star reported that the police were looking for these losers, but did not report that they were caught in the act!! According to my neighbors it was an amazing sight when those losers came out to officers with guns drawn and helicopters circling, not to mention police dogs. All this happens and they completely ignore the story! This is huge news for anyway where in VC isn't? All in all 6 people were arrested in connection to these robberies and it happens they are all from Oxnard...is that why the Star wouldn't report the story? Are they afraid it wouldn't be PC? Well to bad, this has nothing to do with race! This has to do with what a good job the police did and that we can now feel a little safer. Thank you Ventura County sheriff's Department! You Rock!!

Posted by BeaHappi on December 27, 2007 at 3:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's very likely that the dog saved these kids from harm or saved the house from being robbed. After this cowardly a-hole shot the dog I'm sure he just got the heck out of there.

How sad for these kids and very scary too.

Mr. Keith - thanks as always for the additional information and updates. You never know when sharing information like this might help get one serious creep off the streets.

My condolences to this family on the loss of their dog.

Posted by Metalhaid on December 27, 2007 at 3:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

santabarbarasand...As hard as I try not to, I must agree with you. Too many questions. Why would a burglar shoot a dog, unless it attacked him? Were there signs of an attack? Did the kids witness the shooting? *sigh* Poor dog, and poor family too. Why does this bad stuff seem to multiply around Xmas time, or is it just that all the forced "Seasons' Greetings! You WILL Have the GREATEST XMAS EVER!" and shopping insanity makes stories like this particularly poignant. My condolences and prayers to the family and kids, and my prayers go out to all law enforcement and military personnel. May they all be put out of work someday by a mass influx of people behaving well, for a change.

Posted by janabanana71 on December 27, 2007 at 3:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Keith, thanks for adding your comments to this article. It's always helpful to hear from the correct source what is ACTUALLY going on, as well as providing FACTUAL information, like descriptions of suspects, etc.

What a shame the family dog was killed for no good reason. I personally feel that there are no good reasons for humans to harm animals. It's a real shame that Zack was unable to take a literal bite out of crime and leave a lasting mark on the cowardly piece of scum before he was killed.

I also agree that it does seem a little odd that the 16 year old didn't open the door because they didn't know who was there. It seems, at least to me, a little unlikely that someone that age would feel the need to hide in their home because someone they didn't know was knocking on their door. It does seem more likely that the older child may have known the guy who broke in. But all in all, I'm glad the kids were safe.

Posted by Prodigy on December 27, 2007 at 4:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This whole comment section is out of control. From throwing race cards to political bantor. A bad man did a bad thing. how are the facts missing and why are people going on lame tangents? I guess thgis shows that web 2.0 isn't for everyone.

Posted by jamaro099 on December 27, 2007 at 5:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

David Keith, or anyone for that matter.

If someone simply said that a Hispanic did something, can can you give me a general description of what the person might look like?

Someone like me, 6' 180lbs, dark hair, black eyes olive skin.
Or what about my cousin, 5'8", sandy blond hair, blue eyes, very pale skin.

How about my grand-father, 5'2", extremely dark hair and skin.

What about my green-eyed aunt?

I cannot believe a person who doesn't understand that citing a person's ethnicity is not a very good way to physicaly describe a suspect holds the job of police spokesperson.

Very sad.

Jose

Posted by mandynathan on December 27, 2007 at 8:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Just my two cents regarding printing complete descriptions of suspects: Jose, nowhere in Mr. Keith's comments did he so much as mention race or ethnicity. And your comment illustrates that a more complete description of a suspect can be given, without mention of race. In fact, describing someone by ethnicity is not accurate. You cannot tell just by looking at a person what their racial or ethnic background is, especially if they are of mixed race. Simply describing their human characteristics would be very helpful (leaving out guesses as to what their racial or ethnic background might be) - especially when it comes to dangerous criminals who victimize children.
I'm terribly sorry for this family's loss. Our animals are members of our family and we would be devastated to lose a member of our family in such a violent manner.

Posted by fbgomerguard on December 27, 2007 at 8:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MrWright1

I agree that statistically your more likely to be a victim of crime. But don't forget about that meth crazed white man that attacked the child in her bed in Newbury Park. If I remember we new he was white from the story in the Star.

As for not printing the entire press release from OPD Shame on the Star.

I new there was an arrest in the Camarillo case I searched the Star for information, nothing! Its OK to report a arrest in the case even if the suspects have not gone to trial.

What is the point of a local newspaper if not to report local news? Let hope for editorial change at the Star soon before it's too late.

Posted by jamaro099 on December 27, 2007 at 8:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

mandy

Please take a look at Keith's comments at 8:27am and again at 11:10am. He states that he submitted to the Star the term Hispanic as part of the suspect's description. He then comments on his frustration that the Star does not include a suspects ethnicity.

Other than that I think you and I are in agreement about the most effective way to describe a person.

Posted by vcsexplorer11 on December 27, 2007 at 9:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Looks like the burglar needs some of that Texas justice. We need the same law in which if someone is robbing your house you shoot to kill, which was in the news last week.
On another note I will be looking for a man wearing a dark hooded sweat shirt and a beanie. Great work Ventura County Star. You just helped everyone solve the case and you have showed us all what great informational report is all about.
All sarcasm aside, I got more information from listening to AM 1520, as usual.

Posted by vcsexplorer11 on December 27, 2007 at 10:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I agree with David Keith,
More information is the only way to solve a crime. As for Mandys comments, ethinicity is a great way to decribe someone. Example: Dark hair, olive skin, Male, 5' 6" wearing a black jacket and jeans. Did everyone understand that I was talking about a Asian person. NO. I could write another paragraph describing eyes and other asian characteristics but why waste time confusing the readers? Food for thought: If your child was shot and killed would you want the police to ignore all desrcriptions on race and be politically correct?

Posted by schlederdecopan on December 27, 2007 at 10:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Dear Star Editor:

It seems from ALL of the above comments that you should probably pack up your bags and get out of this county and never come back.

Your twisted view of reality is not appreciated by anyone.

Your selective censorship of politically un-corrective events is the highest treason to the American spirit!!!

How many deals have you made to City Managers and City Councils to make everything nice, as we slowing slide into Hell.

Where's your backbone you smelly worm?

Can we come to your office and talk about a few of these things?

Can we come to your house and maybe discuss some of these things on the lawn?

Where did you say that you lived?

Posted by thsomerville on December 27, 2007 at 11:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This guy should be shot and then locked in a shed to suffer and die from his wounds. That poor dog.

Posted by devilangelhawk on December 28, 2007 at 4:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

He needs to be locked in a cage, with German Shepherd Half breeds (half shepherd half wolf) and then see how well his gun works!

Posted by jjp009 on December 28, 2007 at 8:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

socalcandyman: Yes, "children" is plural, but "none" is not. The sentence, "None of the children was hurt" is correct because 'none" equals zero. As in "One of the children was hurt" would also be correct, but "Two of the children was hurt" is not...then it would be "were" for two more.

Posted by Prodigy on December 28, 2007 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A simple answer would be Wikepedia but to help you out;

Wed 2.0- A perceived second generation of web-based communities and hosted services — such as social-networking sites, wikis, and folksonomies — which aim to facilitate creativity, collaboration, and sharing between users.

Note: Just because my "handle" is Prodigy, it doesn't mean I claim to be one. It's the name of my favorite group.

Prodigy- An English band. Their music consists of various styles ranging from rave, hardcore and industrial in the early 1990s to alternative rock and bigbeat with punk vocal elements in later times.

Posted by SummerSun on December 28, 2007 at 9:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Catch this killer! What a girly punk, killing a dog, may you rot with the devil! Next it will be a human, if you have no feelings for a sweet family pet, why would this loser stop at killing kids and adults? Loser, may you rot in jail, and become some big guy's new girlfriend. Punk Murderer!

Posted by ironwoman on December 28, 2007 at 10:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Prodigy- Why don't you stick to the article and stop going off in tangents. This is an article about a burglar that killed a dog in the backyard of a home. The children were inside the home.
I know you were answering a question but your first comment was out of line. Don't read the comments if you don't like them.

Posted by daze805 on December 28, 2007 at 11:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I disagree with the cop (not the first time)... leave ethnicity out of it.

Well said jamaro.

Posted by hefenbog on December 28, 2007 at 11:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hispanic? Oxnard? SAY IT AINT SO!!! I'm so shocked!

Posted by daze805 on December 28, 2007 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

One more thing... it is the job of the police to track down this criminal, not the VC Star.

If people feel that strongly about the crime, go out and volunteer with neighborhood watch or something, go help make the community safer.

Or if they have a better description they should call the hotline, not sit here and be judgemental about the way the Star reports their stories.

Posted by Losde757 on December 28, 2007 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Add suspect ethnicity if confirmed, otherwise leave it out. And, when listing ethnicity, please refer future Hispanics suspects as Latinos instead. Fore as you can see the word ‘Hispanic’ rhymes with ‘Panic’ and induces my quality neighbors & commentors which I refer to as Heinz-57’s (aka W/M or W/F) with fear.

Posted by daze805 on December 28, 2007 at 1:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Rachel, I agree the public should help. As I said in previous post... thats why they should report info. to the police, use the hotline, join neighborhood watch, get involved!

Blaming the VC Star for lack of info. is pathetic. Blame the police for not doing their job, not the local paper.

Posted by loannew on December 28, 2007 at 2:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Whatever the reason for the kids not opening the door, good for them. They are smart. As for the dog, what a hero, growling, baring its teeth or not. You guys are all so hung up on the ethnicity, lack of suspect description, how about empathy? The holidays are barely winding down and these children had to see the murder of their dog/ pet/family member. Someone said it seemed as though nothing was taken, what about this precious dog?! And the love for the dog that the children and family must have had for it? Someone out there has information about this evil culprit, and they should grow some balls and speak up to bring justice for this tragedy, even though sadly when caught this waste of a human life will not get his due for the murder of an innocent animal. In the meantime, it is the children who lost their loved one and had to experience fear who we should be worried about.

Posted by ironwoman on December 28, 2007 at 5:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The reason people are writing about the race issue is because the newspaper refuses to write a full description of the suspect. Nobody is disregarding the victim and the loss of their pet. My goodness. Read the entire comments.

Posted by secforce146 on December 29, 2007 at 4:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The Oxnard Police Departments job is to bring law violators to justice. So, they use full descriptions of suspects. The Ventura Star's main duty is to make money by selling newspapers. Someone at the Star may feel that they will offend a very large number of hispanics by repeatedly reporting hispanics as suspects in their stories. In turn, a loss of sales may occur.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on December 29, 2007 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

santabarbarasand,I wouldn't make assumptions. Perhaps the burglar did get into the home and did hear a noise upstairs and realized someone was home? So he decided to sneak out??? I wouldn't blame the kids.....
Second,unless they have a really good description of someone, is it really going to do anygood? If whether he was latin or caucasion with a grey shirt in a foreign car....what are we to do. Say oh there goes a toyota with a caucasion guy in a grey shirt call the cops??????? Unless we have really good descriptions like yes he was latin with three tears tattoo's on his left eye and a tat of a tiger on his forearm. NOW thay may help. Or a Caucasion guy with bad acne, red hair and a tatoo of snake on his wrist, now that may help.
Honestly if you look at my kids you can not tell if they are caucasion or hispanic. And to me it doesn't matter racially. BUT say that the paper put it was a hispanic 6 ft. 200 pounds then turns out it was a dark complected caucasion, would that not be stereotyping? Alot of hispanics really mad cause the paper said he was hispanic and turns out he wasn't...............oops.......We just really need better descriptions if available.........scars, tattoos, shaved heads maybe....But comeon give the star a break.
And yes I was one of the first to comment on the children and they did the right thing. Thank God they are ok.

Posted by dupontp on December 29, 2007 at 4:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

the dog should have been a couple of pit bulls

Posted by ironwoman on December 29, 2007 at 5:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Anna- OPD PIO D. Keith stated in a previous comment that witnesses stated that the suspect was hispanic. He also stated that the newspaper's policy was not to refer to race. That being, it caused an uproar...me being one. I do not agree that the newspaper eliminates pertinent information such as race. This information is important because maybe neighbors saw the suspect. It would be bothersome and counter-productive if the news media and emergency broadcast systems and/or Amber Alert did away with full descriptions because of "policy". It's wrong. One of the purposes of giving out descriptions and composite sketches is to alert the public because maaaayyyybbeeee, it will help 1%, which is better than none.

Posted by VoiceOf_Reason on December 29, 2007 at 6:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am sooooo sick of all this Politically Correct garbage that we as a society have allowed to develop in all areas and subjects. Not just describing a criminal. WE AMERICANS DESERVE FULL DISCLOSURE OF FACTS. I'm Caucasian, call me whitey, call me honky, call me cracker, call me white bread, but call me something for Pete’s sake to describe my appearance to the world if I have committed a crime and need to be described.

I know that was a bit much, but I think you all get my point. And no... I am not sorry if I have offended any one of my white brethren. We've all got to Get Over Ourselves and get back to basics.

Posted by jamaro099 on December 29, 2007 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

catlover and voice....you two probably need to venture out of your comfort zones a little.

There is no way to effectively and accurately describe someone by citing their ethnicity. Hispanics are tall, short, very dark skinned, very light skinned, black eyes, blue eyes, green eyes, black hair, blond hair.

Posted by VoiceOf_Reason on December 30, 2007 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)

jamaro099-- did you read the part about WE AMERICANS DESERVE FULL DISCLOSURE OF FACTS. I think that includes skin color, eye color, hair color, etc.,. Perhaps you need to hone up on your reading and comprehension skills while catlover and I sit in our so called comfort zones. = )

Enjoy your Sunday!

Posted by srbranigan.srb on December 30, 2007 at 11:01 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Considering the Star's refusal to report on ethnicity, they have violated their own rule in reporting that the dog Zack was a white "German" Shepherd. Perhaps as being of German descent I should file a lawsuit against the Star for using an ethnicity in the dog's description rather than a "large white furry canine."

"Hispanic", "Asian", "Caucasian",
"Black" and "African American" are all inadequate descriptors for INDIVIDUALS, but they are VALUABLE tools in describing general characteristics. Close your eyes. When you think of each word, what picture comes to mind? Bet you picture an Hispanic, an Asian, a Caucasian, and an African American in your mind. It won't be a picture of an individual but a general sense of that race's prominent characteristics. If the man had had white skin and green eyes, Jose, he probably would have been described by the children as Caucasian. Which means we'd all be looking for the wrong guy. BUT- they did not describe him as being Caucasian, they described him as being Hispanic. So now we know what to look out for in a general sense. If we only say "Black hair and olive skin" then we might be wasting our time looking for an Asian or an Arab. Even the DOG doesn't answer to a typical "German" Shepherd description. Most GS's are tan/black/white, not white. But since the dog is described as a white German shepherd we all get it-immediately. Stop being so sensitive about it. It's a TOOL.

Posted by santabarbarasand on December 30, 2007 at 11:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

AnnaWhaat, I didn't say anything about race. I said that the story is AWFULLY suspicious! Why wouldn't a teenager open the door? It makes no sense that they didn't call 911 if they were scared. There isn't much logic here...has the house been searched for a gun? It just seems so convenient that a bunch of minors were home alone and a dog was shot & killed and the story about the burgler, who took nothing, sounds fishy to me. I have worked with kids for years and this story has tons of holes in it. Maybe the Star isn't providing the full story, or the police aren't, but from what there is, it makes me very suspicious that the kids made up the burgler because they themselves did something wrong and wanted to hide it.

Providing race is a part of providing a full description of a suspect. There have been a lot of good points here about that. As someone said earlier, if someone is Chinese, it would be easiest stated that they were Chinese and THEN a physical description on top of that. Simply stating that a young man with brown hair and brown eyes is a suspect won't work. Asian, brown hair, light brown eyes, what he's wearing, type of hair cut/color, what he is driving, etc. FULL description. What is the point of asking the public to help if we only have a description and don't know ethnicity? Do you really think it's okay to think you're looking for an asian person when the suspect is white? Or a black man if the suspect is from India? Saying "dark-skinned" or "light-skinnned" isn't enough and this has NOTHING to do with politically correct, it has to do with CORRECT. Duh. It's not a racial thing, just an accurate thing. Get off your high horse and think about the issue realistically. This isn't about hurting someone's feelings, it's about doing what's right and the Star is failing in that area. They are trying to reduce racial pressures but instead they are denying the public complete information that could help us to help the cops solve crimes. They are reducing our changes of getting criminals off the streets by only giving us part of the story and that is truly bogus.

Oh, by the way, I am glad the kids are okay but I don't think that they were in any danger from anyone but themselves.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on December 30, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

santabarbarasand ,I MAY have agree'd with PART of your comment until you said for me to get off my HIGHHORSE!!!! WHAAAAAAT??????
Unless they have really good identification marks as I said it really isn't going to help any citizen help with the investigation. So if they said Latino with dark pants and a baseball cap just how many calls to the police do you thing we would have?????????? They just described half of the city......
So if you read my comment you WOULD understand the logic...

Posted by jamaro099 on December 30, 2007 at 12:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Quote: "jamaro099-- did you read the part about WE AMERICANS DESERVE FULL DISCLOSURE OF FACTS...."

When it comes to his ethnicity, how do you know anything as being FACT? Did the perp yell out to his victims that he is Hispanic? Or is it more likely that the victim gave a best guess. Or maybe it could be like that woman from Utah he claimed some "Hispanic" abducted her because she got cold feet the day before her wedding. Until the perp is caught there is no way to know for certain his ethnicity. He could be Armenian.

But, since we're hurling insults.... You should could take a course in critical thinking skills. The underlying issue, and cause for debate is whether or not citing a person's ethnicity is an effective way to describe a person for the purpose of identifying and ultimately capturing a criminal.

Your comment about full disclosure is not relevant to the current debate and reflects your inabiity differentiate an issue from a fact.

Posted by VoiceOf_Reason on December 30, 2007 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

jamaro0999--allow me to exit my comfort zone yet again to address your rebuttle to my statment, by directing you to this morning's comment from santabarbarasand's to Annawhaat and leave it at that--with one exception. (see below).

You say: ""Until the perp is caught there is no way to know for certain his ethnicity. He could be Armenian.""

Without "FULL DISCLOSURE of the perps physical description AS ACCURATE AS IT CAN BE", he/she will likely NOT BE COUGHT.(or at least not until after he/she had committed more crimes) All people are asking for here, is to have "nothing" left out of the description.

Posted by QuestionAuthority on December 30, 2007 at 2:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I once watched some seemingly young, late teens to early 20’s, Hispanic chick, about 5'4" & 160 lbs, with painted on eyebrows and two toned hair (jet black with red streaks), wearing hip huggers so low her florescent pink thong panties were exposed, and her big-ol belly and hips hung over her pants top, she had on black or very dark brown knee high punk style boots with big silver buckles, carrying a metallic blue softball bat, blast the back windows out of three compact cars parked on the lot of the local K-mart at approximately 7:30 pm on a Saturday Night while I was in line at a Fast Food joint. She then jumped into the passenger side of the awaiting light blue early model Chevy Camero and sped away. (I didn’t get a good look at the driver because it was a bit dark but I think it was female, I also didn‘t get a good look at the license plate for the same reason).

With some of your way of thinking, the “acceptable description” to be published by the STAR, as to not offend ANYONE of Gender, Race, or Lifestyle Group would be:

“I saw someone break the back windows out of 3 vehicles”

(She was caught by the way, as was the driver)

Posted by ironwoman on December 30, 2007 at 5:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Voiceofreason- There's no point in arguing with these people. I will remain in my comfort zone, whatever that may be. Next time I see a crime occur, I will remember that race doesn't matter when giving out a description...according to some commenters. I am sure the police appreciate full descriptions for their investigations.
Peace out.

Posted by jamaro099 on December 30, 2007 at 7:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

voice --

First, you're changing your arguments.

1. First you said we deserve full disclosure of the facts.

2. Now you're saying disclosure as "accurate as it can be."

And we both know the reason you changed your story is because you now know that there is no way to know for certain a person's ethnicity until he/she is positively identified.

But let's go back to santabarbra's comment.

He/she said if someone is Chinese that fact should be given, then a physical descriptions.

Okay, let's say the victims in this case describe the perp as being Hispanic, about 5'5" 130lbs, wearing a light blue sweatshire...etc.

You're a police officer and you spot a person who seems to match the description.....except, when you check him it, it turns out the guy is Armenian. Do you let the guy go because he doesn't match the description?

And that's the point, unless the perp is positively identified (you know exactly who he/she is), there is no way to no for certain his/her ethnicity so it is a useless "tool" in physically describing a person. So in that regard SB is correct, it should be an ACCURATE thing, not a "I only see people of other groups one way".

If you left your comfort zone, you would realize that there is more variation (genetic and physically) within so-called "racial" or "ethnic" groups then between them.

Posted by jamaro099 on December 30, 2007 at 7:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Srbranigan:

""Hispanic", "Asian", "Caucasian",
"Black" and "African American" are all inadequate descriptors for INDIVIDUALS, but they are VALUABLE tools in describing general characteristics."

And that is the point, we're talking about INDIVIDUALS, not groups of people.

You're also partially right, it isn't when people close their eyes, it's when the close their MINDS.

That some people's mind's are so closed that when they close their eyes the only see one image is not the newspaper's fault.

Posted by VoiceOf_Reason on December 31, 2007 at 8:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

“WE AMERICANS DESERVE FULL DISCLOSURE OF FACTS--AS ACCURATE AS THEY CAN BE---OR AS BEST AS THE WITNESS CAN REMEMBER--EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT COMPLETELY 100% CLEAR BUT HAVE A STRONG SUSPICION OF WHAT THEY THINK OR BELIEVE THE DESCRIPTION OF THE CRIMINAL TO BE--I WANT THE STAR TO PUBLICIZE EVERYTHING THAT IS REPORTED TO THEM BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT--LEAVING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OUT” ======Is that better jamaro009?

Thank you Noah-Bennet very much for your sound suggestion. It's a great idea and consider my peanuts being on their way, along with a copy of all of these comments.

And that's all I've got to say on this subject...Now back to my comfort zone....WOW all this movement is quite exhausting = ) LOL

Happy New Year Everyone!

Posted by AnnaWhaat on January 1, 2008 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

catlover,I agree with you but they really didn't have a description????? So I do not see how the public would be of any help. Not when you have thousands of people in one race with a foreign car and dark clothes on. What kind of description is that? I am all for Amber Alerts! And hopefully they have the make and license number. If not then any information should and would be made public.
QuestionAuthority ,NOW with a description like that I would say absolutely yes put everything in the paper. That was a great description and someone probably noticed that person that day somewhere else.
Noah_Bennet ,As great as you may think your comment about mailing the peanuts to the Star Office probably no one would use a return address. So how many times would us taxpayers have to pay for the bomb squad to come and get the package? Hmm
And since it was your idea! Who do you think will go to court and be sued???? Food for thought!
I do not have a problem with race being put into an article.......if they do it on all articles. Just dont see a purpose if they do not have a description other then a foreign car.

Posted by Codysbud on January 3, 2008 at 8:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

santabarbarasand, you are right...something just doesn't sound right, or as happens quite a bit, the whole story isn't being told.

Now, the "burglar" knocking on the front door, and having no one answer the door, goes to the back yard, where he doesn't encounter the dog, and enters through the patio door. Then, after not taking anything, leaves through the patio door, and seeing the dog and without the dog barking, shoots the dog.

Now if these are all the facts that are known to the police, maybe dkeith1397 can let us know if anything else has been learned, i.e. if any fingerprints were found in the home that don't belong to the family, or if there was anything else found, such as footprints, etc.