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Errant golf balls disrupt family's life
Photos by Rob Varela / Star staff Mark Moore's weekly ritual of suiting up in improvised protective gear is necessary, he said, because he has to shield himself from golf balls that careen onto his property every day.
Photos by Rob Varela / Star staff Golfers at Spanish Hills golf course in Camarillo appear through the Moore family's fence.
STORY TOOLS 
More from CamarilloWhen Mark Moore mows his lawn, he is a sight to behold.
Looking a bit like the rubber-armed Michelin man, he says that in order to get the job done safely, he has to wear a heavily padded leather jacket, filled with four inches of goose-down feathers to protect the vertebrae in his back; a wide-brimmed pith helmet to prevent injury to his head and face; a pair of goggles to cover his eyes; long pants with kneepads; and a pair of long, thick landscape gloves.
Moore's weekly ritual of suiting up in improvised protective gear is necessary, he said, because he has to shield himself from a barrage of golf balls that careen onto his property every day.
As a cameraman and Steadicam operator on television and movie sets, Moore said he uses his body in his profession. He said if his fingers, knees or any other body parts were to be injured, his career could be over. He says there's also risk of serious injury.
"It's snowing golf balls. We get up to 28 a day. They come in at such a high speed that we can't let our children outside to play, and we can't let the dog out. It's awful," said his wife, Carolyn Masters Moore, visibly distraught over what she says has become an unbearable situation.
Prisoners inside own home
When the couple bought their dream home in the exclusive enclave of Camarillo's Spanish Hills, they said, they had no idea how quickly it would become a nightmare.
After moving into the house in late July, it took about a week for them to realize they had a major golf ball hazard to grapple with, they said.
Because their property is adjacent to the Spanish Hills golf course, they expected the occasional stray ball to land in their yard, but it's the blizzard of bulletlike errant golf balls that makes them feel like prisoners inside their own home, they said.
"We have to wear helmets when we go outside, or carry an umbrella to protect ourselves and our kids. I feel betrayed, hurt and angry," said Carolyn Moore, who worked as a mortgage broker until the birth of their son, Paxton, two years ago. "We have a big, beautiful yard that we can't use. It breaks my heart when my son cries to go out, and I can't let him," she said.
She said their 12-year-old daughter, Aiden, a goalkeeper for the Camarillo Eagles soccer club, can't practice in the yard with her friends.
The Moores lend construction-quality hard hats to their visitors for safety and liability reasons.
"No one told us to ask people to wear helmets. We give people helmets because we don't want anyone getting hurt," said Mark Moore.
Invested everything they had
After living for several years in a town home they own at Mandalay Beach in Oxnard, they purchased their 2-acre, $2.1 million Tuscan-style home near the seventh fairway because of the space and security they thought it offered their family.
Mark Moore said they invested everything they had to acquire the house and borrowed from their parents.
He said his mother is in the early stages of Alzheimer's disease, so his parents planned to move in. But when his mother nearly got hit by a golf ball while eating lunch on the patio, they had to abandon their plans.
"A ball also whizzed by our daughter's head and missed her by inches," said Carolyn Moore. She said their 3-year-old English bull terrier, Emma, was nearly hit by a ball when she was standing by the back door. "These balls are weapons; they can maim or kill you," she said.
The Moores contend they didn't know that the location of their property was unique, compared to nearby homes, when it comes to the amount and velocity of incoming golf balls.
"There was no disclosure about the special problem associated with this particular property. If we had known about the severity of the golf ball hazard, we would not have bought the house," said Mark Moore. He said there has been some damage to the stucco exterior of the house, but the biggest concern is what the ricocheting golf balls can do to people.
Want purchase rescinded
The Moores, who do not play golf, said they will move out of their house sometime this week and back into their town home until the situation is resolved. They said they want the purchase of their home rescinded and their money refunded.
"A house on a golf course is going to have golf balls; they knew that. If there was a special disclosure about that property, I knew absolutely nothing about it at the time of the transaction," said Laura Means, the real estate agent who represented the sellers and sold the home to the Moores through the Illinois-based relocation company SIRVA, which provides employee relocation services to corporations.
"We believe the homeowners disclosed everything they should have disclosed and that the buyers were fully aware of the circumstances of the property," said Jeff Margolis, attorney for SIRVA.
The Moores have hired Ventura-based real estate attorney Peter Lemmon to represent them in possible litigation.
"The cardinal rule in real estate is disclosure, disclosure, disclosure. A boiler-plate California disclosure form is not enough in a situation like this. The severity of the problem was not disclosed," said Lemmon, who said he had a former law partner who was almost killed by an errant golf ball and lost his hearing as a result.
'They travel like rockets'
Mike Kelly, a neighbor of the Moores, said that when his daughter visits them and goes outside, she wears a helmet, too.
"They get bombed with golf balls all day long. The house is in a bad location, and it's really unfortunate, especially for the kids," said Kelly, who is a veterinarian and owns the Bristol Animal Hospital in Ventura.
He said because of the property's location relative to the tee box, golfers drive the balls into the Moores' backyard. "They slice the balls high in the air, and they travel like rockets. The Moores have a legitimate issue."
Home builder and neighbor John Reider said he once considered buying the Moores' property before there was a house on it. "I was thinking of buying it, but then I found out about the number of golf balls that land there and changed my mind," he said.
Spanish Hills Golf and Country Club general manager Mike Orosco said he had no comment about the situation.
Posted by kbaker4us on December 18, 2007 at 4:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If you have ever played golf, you probably would not have bought a house on a golf course. I have been playing for years and I still cannot hit the ball straight. Now that these home owners have told the world that there back yard is a landing zone for errant golf ball drives, they will never sell their house. Too bad. they should have invested a bit of the 2.1 million dollars they paid for the house with a golf pro who could have told them that they were in for some big time drives.
Posted by Old_Fart on December 18, 2007 at 5:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)
That house is in a very bad spot. It is obvious they do not play golf or they would have known. The design of the hole is tight, and there is no room to move the fairway to the left to change the aim point from the tee.
But if I'm going to drop $2M on a house on a golf course, I would go spend a weekend sitting there to see how it is. You NEVER buy a house to the right of a fairway landing zone, or around a green, unless there is tons of room for folks who lose their shot.
Posted by CloudyDaze on December 18, 2007 at 6:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Poor not so smart Babies....You buy a house on a golf course then complain about the flying golf balls - go back to Oxnard, then you can complain about the flying bullets.
Posted by karslate on December 18, 2007 at 6:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Excuse me...is their last name Moore..or Moron?
Posted by insideedge on December 18, 2007 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Golf balls on a golf course...WOW. That's a new one. They probably woke up one morning with buyers remorse. I would of. 2.1 Mil is a bundle of cash
Posted by ecarson1958 on December 18, 2007 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Why not collect the golf balls and sell them back to the people slicing and losing their golf balls. Maybe that way they could get a little cash for all their trouble.
Posted by del on December 18, 2007 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
On the surface, this looks like a situation where one has more money than good sense.
I can't muster up with much sympathy.
Posted by luv2sail on December 18, 2007 at 8:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Could also be that the property value has gone down considerably or the loan rate has increased. Could also be having to carry two mortgages since the Oxnard property is vacant.
Seems a fence could be built, similar to what they have at the driving range.
Posted by Jacksprat on December 18, 2007 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is know fact that no matter what level of golfer you there will be shot that will go astray. So having played golf I would never buy a house on a golf course. Not only do you get the stray balls. But at 4 am the ground people are out getting the course ready. Then all day long you will have a steady stream of people passing by your yard and there will be no privicy. They look good, nice open space, but best to go spend a day at the house, see the traffic, find out about the line of flight, and just when they start the mowers in the morning.
the pray it will not changes.
Posted by KC on December 18, 2007 at 9:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well of course I'm sure they expected a few golf balls, but who would ever imagine 28 a day flying at such speeds that you can't even enjoy your own back yard? This absolutely should have been disclosed to them and I don't think it's a matter of them being "egg-heads" or ignorant as some of you have suggested. For those of us that don't play golf, this is not something that we would immediately know or even THINK about. I do feel sorry for these people and I do hope that perhaps the golf course can consider changing the location of the tee-box. Seems like the easiest fix to this problem.
Posted by FedUp on December 18, 2007 at 10:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"Mark Moore said they invested everything they had to acquire the house and borrowed from their parents."
they borrowed money from their parents, invested "everything" they have to acquire this house, yet they still own the townhome in Mandalay Bay??
poor little rich people do not get my sympathy. regardless if they get more golf balls hit onto their property then most. they still should have known a few errant golf balls would end up in their yard. whether it is 28 a day, or 1 per day, that 1 still could hit their child.
it is not our problem they dont have common sense.
Posted by aquabio on December 18, 2007 at 10:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Next thing the Moore's will complain about is boat noise in Mandalay Bay. Nobody probably disclosed that there were boats in the vicinity of their townhouse. What Moore-ons!! I guess if they bought a house near the freeway they'd be amazed that there was car noise that nobody told them about. Lawyers have to love senseless folks like these!
Posted by BeaHappi on December 18, 2007 at 10:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Can't the golf course put up one of those huge net fences, to stop the balls? Since it's unlikely they will be able to sell their home in this market...and with that problem, I'd think about putting one up myself.
I agree though, I have no desire to ever live on or near a golf course. I'm nervous parking at the golf course, just for the afternoon!
Posted by KC on December 18, 2007 at 10:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)
People build houses on golf courses ALL THE TIME and don't have this magnitude of an issue with golf balls. The "poor little rich" comments are uncalled for - these people have probably worked very hard for what they have and it's unfortunate that due to non-disclosure, they are unable to enjoy it. Common sense would tell someone they may have to deal with a few errant golf balls, but 20+ a day? Come on - that's outside of what one would normally expect. Give these people a break.
Posted by thisiswhatshesaid on December 18, 2007 at 11 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You people are mean, Trust me if this was the other way around you would want all the help you can get. You want to make them sould like their rich and have no problems in the world. This is a serious sitution. Dont be mean cause krama will come back ten folds onto you. I know the moores PERSONALLY. Its not safe for little man pax or adien. If they knew the dangerns in ALL the golf balls in one day they would have never bought this house. Their dream home turned into a nightmare. Have a heart for the kids.
Posted by janabanana71 on December 18, 2007 at 11:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe they should see how much it would cost to get some sort of barrier to put up above their fence, you know, kinda like a hockey shield? That way they wouldn't lost the view but have the added protection from the errant balls.
Posted by SummerSun on December 18, 2007 at 11:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)
They should have stayed in peaceful Mandalay Beach. I live there, and have never had one golf ball coming in from the water. Lots of money doesn't equal brains. They should have done research before buying in a place that rains golf balls. I wish them the best, and the kids and dog deserve to enjoy their yard. Golfers a breed of their own.
Posted by FedUp on December 18, 2007 at 11:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
my comments were purely based off of the this quote from the article.
"Mark Moore said they invested everything they had to acquire the house and borrowed from their parents."
therefore, I said this:
"they borrowed money from their parents, invested "everything" they have to acquire this house, yet they still own the townhome in Mandalay Bay??"
yeah, I feel bad that they can't enjoy their own backyard, but c'mon. give me a break. if they are looking for sympathy, they can go elsewhere for it.
Posted by latinmix on December 18, 2007 at 11:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well...if you look at the map it looks to be a par 4 with a straight a way and turn. It is obvious they would be getting tons of balls since the straight away looks to be somewhat 170 yards or so. I think it is the Golf Course management or owner to build a net that would cover their home. This is used in other golf ranges like camarillo springs that keeps balls from going into the freeway. So all of this is just common sense on both sides. Hope all gets resolved. In the meantime happy golfing for all the golfers...
Posted by horsespinner on December 18, 2007 at 11:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)
if 28 balls a day were really landing in the yard, they would have noticed an over abundance of lost balls sitting around while looking at the property. I am sure they looked at this place more than once. At 2 mill I say quite a few times. I doubt it, they want out of a 2mill + house in a declining market. Its a real estate Mulligan.
Posted by BrianS on December 18, 2007 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I'd put up a net to cover the yard and sell the balls. With 25 balls a day that comes to about 9000 balls a year. Sell them for 25 cents each and you can make over $2000 a year. That's over $40K over 20 years. You could invest it in a college fund and pay for the kids college.
Something does sound a little fishy though. This article comes out right after property taxes were due and just before Xmas. I thought my property tax was a lot, but the taxes on a 2.1 million dollar house would be over 20K/yr.
Posted by Fred on December 18, 2007 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I almost got hit by a ball on the 101 fwy at that golf course by Thousand Oaks. The ball bounced in the lane next to me and over the car. I could not help but wonder if anyone has been hit there - seems like it could cause a serious accident at high speed. Anyone else hear of this at this location?
Posted by rebel123 on December 18, 2007 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Waaaah! I live in Spanish Hills on the course and don't like the golf balls!! Waaaa! Unreal. What the heck did they expect??
Posted by res0crek on December 18, 2007 at 1:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Put up a net like other people suggested. If you have money to own two houses, you have enough money to put up a net to protect your family.
I only hope the 28 balls a day won't turn into 56 after all the golfers read this article! LOL!
Best of luck to the poor rich Moores (well, mainly to their children and dog)
Posted by Comments on December 18, 2007 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sorry but I have absolutely zero sympathy for these folks. I feel the same way about people who buy homes next to the freeway and then complain about the noise. I mean seriously... you bought a house on a golf course and one would have to assume that golf balls would wind up on your property. I don't know if 28 balls a day is a lot, but it seems like that might happen if you're right next to the course. Besides, I personally wouldn't be happy with one ball a day flying into my yard at those speeds. Getting hit with one ball is all it takes to be injured. How many balls per day would these homeowners have found acceptable? 5, 10, 20? Clearly 28 is too much for them, so how many? And, what do they base that acceptable number on? Would they still have to wear protective gear if it were only 5 balls per day? Really, this does sound like buyer's remorse to me. And, I suspect a lot of it has to do with getting in over their heads with a house payment, now that there's only one income in the family.
As soon as the article mentioned that he was making a spectacle of himself while mowing his lawn I knew that a lawsuit was in the works. Oh, and saying that he had been planning on moving his mom with Alzheimer's into his house but couldn't now because of the golf ball situation just made me cringe. Give me a freakin break. You could still move your mother into your very large home. After all, I hope they weren't planning on having her live in a tent in the yard.
Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on December 18, 2007 at 1:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have no sympathy whatsoever. If a lawsuit is filed, the judge had best move it to the frivolous basket.
Posted by anne on December 18, 2007 at 3:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The story DID NOT mention that the realtor, Laura Means was seen picking up golf balls before every open house and every showing! The story also DID NOT mention that the realtor FAILED TO DISCLOSE an 8 page report telling of the errant golf balls that would cause bodily harm and property damage to people and property on their property. (Would you have bought this house if you knew the TRUTH?) The story also DID NOT mention that the Moores moved into this house and started having issues with the seller LONG before any writers strike. THIS IS NOT A CASE OF BUYERS REMORSE. This is a case which PROVES the need for realtors and sellers to DISCLOSE each and everything about a property to potential buyers. To all of you out there accusing them of these awful things...how would you feel if you bought your "dream home" no matter it's price, rich or poor, only to find out it will PROBABLY cause you serious pain and suffering. How dare you!
Posted by Terly on December 18, 2007 at 3:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If he has 28 golf balls a day land in his yard and they sale for $1 a ball that is $28 a day and $840 a month. This would bring in $10,080 a year! Some people have all the luck money falling from the sky and we complain!....Duh I will trade him houses.
Posted by sunnbear on December 18, 2007 at 3:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)
KEEP YER BALLS OFFA MY LAWN!!!
Posted by garion246 on December 18, 2007 at 3:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I have no sympathy for the Moores. It does seem like they are having buyers remorse and may be over their heads and are looking to get out. Boohoo.
However, It does sound like a failure to disclose on the part of both the agent and seller. The number of balls coming into this yard and location in regards to that hole is material to the sales of the house which may not be obvious to everyone. Clearly the neighbors knew about it. Heck, just because it is next to a golf course it should be disclosed that golf balls may be hit into you yard. It is a no brainer to me that this should of been disclosed.
Posted by BeaHappi on December 18, 2007 at 4:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
"Heck, just because it is next to a golf course it should be disclosed that golf balls may be hit into you yard."
Very true...and to take it a step further - if I was the buyer, I'd ask about the frequency.
Anne - it seems that you may know the Moores and my question is, has anyone looked into putting up some net fence, like they have at driving ranges? I'm honestly curious...it seems that there must be a solution here.
Posted by finnmcgowan on December 18, 2007 at 5:05 p.m. (Suggest removal)
@VCStar - I'm sorry if the Moore's were wronged, but is this really front page news?
Posted by CloudyDaze on December 18, 2007 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Anne - What? A realtor resorting to shady tactics i.e not fully disclosing troublesome issues to sell a house? Tell me it's not true. Hello! Realtors #1 interest is in closing the deal and making $$$. Representing the best interest of the buyer or seller is at best secondary notion.
Posted by SomeonesSister on December 18, 2007 at 5:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
So if they moved into the house in late July, they would have aproximately 4200 balls collected by now based on their 28 per day quote. I'd like to see all those balls. They are a YOUNG couple who own a 2.1 mil home on a golf course, AND a Townhome in Mandalay Beach in Oxnard... Oh those poor souls. How terribly sorry I feel for them.... NOT! Why would a young couple who DON'T even play Golf, choose such a place to raise small children anyhow? Something just doesn't add up. And I think it is very hard for most of us, who DON'T own a 2.1 mil dollar home on a golf course, and who DON'T have a Mandalay Bay Second Home, to muster up ANY Sympathy for these two kids. Learn by your mistakes and DON'T make them again.
Posted by senatorkevin on December 18, 2007 at 5:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I find 20+ balls a day hard to believe. Granted, I've never played the course though. However, Spanish Hills is a private club which means the play is significantly lower than that of Sterling Hills which is right across the way from Spanish Hills. Not to mention you have less "duffers" at a private club.
While it's unfortunate for the buyers of this house you'd have to wonder where their heads were at when they bought it. Why didn't they do any due diligence outside of the realtor? Not to mention, why would anyone overextend themselves for a house in today's market!! If the problem is REALLY that bad why haven't other neighbors piped up?
I'm pretty sure there's more to this picture. If I bought a house for 2 million bucks and happened to learn that the value of my house might decline by 30-40% over the next 3-4 years I'd flip out too.
Caveat emptor!
Posted by rgammie on December 18, 2007 at 6:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It seems a waste of good newsprint to cover a whining millionaire. Aren't there some good human-interest stories out there?
Posted by senatorkevin on December 18, 2007 at 6:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)
After looking at a map of Spanish Hills, I was able to find the house in question. (I'll refrain from posting the address, but understand their privacy goes out the door with an article like this.)
The house is in the WORST possible spot period! The teeboxes nearly lined up with their house at a straight line! This requires golfers to draw their drives from right to left. For average golfers, that's very difficult and they'll mis-hit the ball which forces it right which ends up in the house.
Posted by anne on December 18, 2007 at 7:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I believe they have considered putting up a net, but honestly, I think they would have to net in their front AND rear yards. Sounds like they would be living in an aviary. They were told a COUPLE balls land in the CORNER of the yard, once in a while. The 8 page disclosure was prepared by the builder who sold it to the sellers,(the sellers signed it when THEY bought it and were aware of the hazardous balls) but they (the sellers) didn't disclose it to the Moores. Yes, living near a golf course one might expect a golf ball here and there, especially in certain places on the course. If all the information were disclosed to them they could have made a better decision. They could have made a choice to buy the house and spend thousands to put up an un-sighlty net all around their property (if that is even an option) OR they could have continued looking at other homes. Do you really think they are enjoying this? They were duped.
Posted by twoods on December 18, 2007 at 7:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Do they at least yell out FORE!!!!! Mr. Moore if you find some Callaway balls please set them aside for me.
Posted by vcrdr on December 18, 2007 at 8:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Golf course living is the Ultimate! Anne above speaks with clarity! I don't believe the Moore's are "millionaires" as some of you have labeled them. They are working people who have made smart choices on how and where to spend their money through the years. High Five to them! The Moore's decided to buy this property because it has 2 houses. One for them and one for the mom, whom they were prepared to care for with their own money. There is no buyer's remorse or value issue here. The Moore's were aware and prepared for the "normal" expenses of living there. If they were golfers, they would have considered a golf pro as some of you suggest. But, since they are not, they relied on the information given them at the time. It is not a quetion for common sense as some of you suggest. The Moore's have looked into "the net" idea, but, not only is it also expensive, but it would be an eyesore to them as well as to the whole neighborhood, otherwise, why haven't previous homeowners already done that? So, it does not matter what the price of the house was, but the fact is, why was it not fully and clearly disclosed, and could this happen to anyone of us? And that, is the reason for front page news!
Posted by Will on December 18, 2007 at 8:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If there was a simple disclosure saying that golf balls and golfers coming on the property is typical and the buyer should further investigate then they have no argument. If the disclosure was in the builders disclosures and was not in the resellers then I would think that the Moores have a good argument. Whatever poor judgement they may have made in purchasing the house.
Posted by res1q7et on December 18, 2007 at 8:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'm glad to hear they've chosen to leave the location. This investment is not worth the risk of serious injury or tragedy. I knew someone who was hit in the head with a golf ball and consequently suffered brain-damage and partial paralysis. I imagine that the golf course would also have some liability in this case. After all, their business is creating an environmental hazard for the home's residents.
Posted by chip on December 18, 2007 at 8:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Every homeowner moving in to the Spanish Hills Community, MUST sign-off on the CC&R's prior to closing on their property. While it is unfortunate, there's no way anyone paying attention during the signing of those documents during the escrow process should have anyone justified complaint. And 28 balls a day...please.
Posted by dcsfancy on December 18, 2007 at 9:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I too cannot feel sorry for this person. When you looked at it didn't you notice any flying balls? Sorry you do not like the place and the market has gone down when you want to sale. Please do you have to sue? why don't you cut your loses sell it for what the market is. I am so disgusted with anyone who has to sue someone. Grow up and be a man!
Posted by Old_Fart on December 18, 2007 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
If you are going to spend money on a house on a golf course and don't spend a day or two there to see the traffic, you get whats coming to you. Sort of like buying a house at an airport but you never check the flight schedules.
I think they bought over their heads and are trying to get the sympathy vote to get out of it.
Posted by foreweb on December 18, 2007 at 9:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
28 balls per day would be roughly 1.2 balls landing in the yard or hitting the house every hour. Considering that golf is usually played from 8 am (by the time you reach hole #7) until 6 pm - you have 10 hours when golf balls are raining down. So, they should be getting 2.8 balls every hour. Now, assuming they looked at the house more than once and I would hope for more than one hour considering the purchase was for $2.1 million - wouldn't they have experienced a "blizzard of bulletlike errant golf balls" during this time? I don't mean to sound cynical, but I find it laughable that they have retained the services of a lawyer who had a partner that was partially disabled by an errant golf ball for "possible litigation". That's what makes America great - you can sue anyone for anything, even your own stupidity.
Posted by Tom_Johnston on December 18, 2007 at 10:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
maybe what is needed is some sort of gas-powered gatling-gun golf ball launcher to send those balls back!!
My neighbor has a young son...he's always hitting some sort of ball over my fence..I just toss them back.
sounds like this guy needs to fire back in kind..I'm thinkin' rapid fire!
Posted by jeff93024 on December 18, 2007 at 11:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Maybe Mr. Moore needs to take up a hobby....like archery. "Oops! Sorry about that arrow!"
Posted by spokenit on December 19, 2007 at 7:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Realtors do NOT disclose disclose disclose everything! We all know that. They only disclose what they pretty up. You know "you dont buy a house by a train track" etc... But IF the Realtors dont tell you " oh and by the way the train will be also coming right into your back yard daily" then how can you make an honest choice? DO Realtors know that word: HONEST
Posted by dvpolice on December 19, 2007 at 7:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Oh give me a stinking break!!! First off, shame on the Star for even considering putting this on the front page of the news. Secondly, I want the Moores to stop their whining. If they are not happy in their 2.1 million dollar Spanish Hills home or million dollar Mandalay Beach townhome then we can trade and they can have my one bedroom Oxnard apartment. I am so sick of whiney rich people who think they are better than everyone else. Thats like the people in Colonia getting mad at their realtors for not discolsing there will be a shooting every week and they might need to keep their heads down. Ridiculous, purely ridiculous.
Posted by aliceblois on December 19, 2007 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Here's what I want to know:
How the heck does a camera man make enough money to buy a 2.1 million dollar Spanish Hills home?
I didn't think the course at Spanish Hills had that much traffic. Are there really that many people daily who make a bad shot right into their back yard? 28 sounds a bit high--maybe on tournament days.
Posted by Ventura22 on December 19, 2007 at 8:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The developer(golf course) should either buy back the property or install safety netting. They made a bad choice building in that particular line of fire but that doesn't justify having people injured or property damaged just for the sake of a sport. There are many other homes up there that do fine around the course so a buyer would not expect to have such an extreme problem with stray balls. Nonetheless, the house was approved and built in the lot designated for an R3. ANY resident has a reasonable expectation of safety and accountability for those who inflict harm or property damage. Regardless of all the opinions of the Moore's intelligence level, the resident has a great civil suit against the individual golfers as well as the course operator. I've seen lesser cases won easily. It seems like smarter heads should prevail and a safety net installed; it would stop the problem.
Posted by chip on December 19, 2007 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
FYI; the Golf Course was not the developer of the homes.
Posted by FedUp on December 19, 2007 at 9:05 a.m. (Suggest removal)
"They are working people who have made smart choices on how and where to spend their money through the years."
just for the record. spending $2.1 million on a home in a declining market is not a smart choice.
Posted by jwetzel_inet on December 19, 2007 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Ventura22...didnt you read Anne's comment above? the safety net would create an "eyesore"? i'd rather have an eyesore than a sore eye!! and the argument from vcrdr that the previous owners didnt do it so why should the current owners do it? thats irrelevant. if I am going to spend over $2M on something, I simply wouldnt just trust the "realtor". btw - do you know what a "realtor" is supposed to represent? a higher standard of integrity, professionalism and ethics, over what you would find with any average licensed real-esate agent (thats right, not all licensed real-estate agents are "Realtors"). the Natl Association of Realtors is a powerful trade organization. they emphasize this more than anything on the state exam, but it doesnt really seem to hold true. i'm sure there are many agents that uphold the standard, but unfortunately the commissions greed that took hold on both the agent AND lender sides from 2002-2006 seems to have pushed some of those important ethical considerations aside. what is the commission on a 2.1M home sale? whats the commission on a 2.1M loan? that kind of money can buy a lot of souls in todays society
Posted by vcrdr on December 19, 2007 at 9:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The value or price of the house(s) is NOT the issue! The issue is UPFRONT DISCLOSURE!
Posted by h2oboy on December 19, 2007 at 10:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Upfront disclosure is a good issue. If I buy a coffee please make sure it tells me that the content in the cup will be hot and can burn me. Come on now, you buy a house on a golf course and need someone to tell you that golf balls will land on your property?? Wake up people. Some things don't need disclosure if you are not blind or stupid!
I hope no one gets hurt. I have been struck by a golf ball and it causes a great deal of pain.
Posted by jenwilliams1781 on December 19, 2007 at 11:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Doesn't he have enough money to hire someone to mow his lawn?
Nevertheless, I think if they knew that they'd have to wear helmets to go outside, they probably wouldn't have bought the house. Seems like full disclosure was lacking.
Posted by amelia on December 19, 2007 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
My daughter is Laura Means, the Realtor who sold this house. Get your facts straight and don't drag my daughter into this nasty fairy tale. Laura told me that she happily picked up golf balls WITH THESE BUYERS and every other prospective buyer almost every time she showed the property. She has a list of these witnesses. There were no secrets here. The sellers disclosed the broken window from golf balls, the tile damage, the stucco damage, and there were more written disclosures about the golf balls than any other house Laura has ever sold. ON THE DAY OF THE 2 HOUR HOME INSPECTION, THE BUYER STAYED OUTSIDE WITH HIS INFANT CHILD AND PICKED UP OVER 20 GOLF BALLS! The buyers had unlimited access to the property before the sale went through. They stood Laura up on several occassions, once not returning calls for 5 days because they said they didn't get cell messages on their yacht. THE BUYER IS A REALTOR WHO REPRESENTED HERSELF AND HAD HER BROKER REVIEW EVERYTHING. Remember there are two sides to every story.
Posted by foreweb on December 19, 2007 at 12:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
attention all Bruin golfers at SHCC - you know who you are - please quit trying to hit the ball down the middle. AIM LEFT! Your propensity for slicing tee shots is indisputable. Although, from the tips, I'm not so sure the house is in range for either of you...
Posted by keepermel on December 19, 2007 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Thank you Laura Mean's mother....you have cleared up the only argument there was for this family. It sounds like they are a buch of liers trying to fix a bad realistate decision. Yacht!!!! Who had the argument that these people are not rich.....there goes that argument also. Laura Means should sue them for defimation of character. They may have cost Laura future business with their lies.....turn about is fair play.
Posted by mesantia on December 19, 2007 at 1:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)
FORE!
Posted by TheSportsLogoPundit on December 19, 2007 at 4:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Suddenly, I feel like playing golf.
Posted by tellthetruth on December 19, 2007 at 8:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Special kind of stupid... money does not equal intelligence.
Posted by AnnaWhaat on December 20, 2007 at 8:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)
KC ,I also agree. I feel sorry for them. And I always think this should have been disclosed.
horsespinner ,Not necessarily, the realator for the former owners probably called ahead of time to show the property in which at that time they could have easily ran outside and gathered up all the golf balls....
BrianS,Sounds good! BUT The question is what would the city say about the net? Would it be allowed. AFter all even putting up a block wall there are ordinances that require them to be no more then a certain number of feet.
res0crek ,I dont think just due to the fact they have money makes them ignorant or any less equal to anyone else.
anne ,That is exactly what I was thinking. So the realator obviously felt it was a danger so she was the one to remove them before every open house ! Thankyou for clairifying that.
SomeonesSister,You do bring up a good point! I would like to see all of those balls also. Also I would like to see reciepts for replaced windows. Surely some windows have had to be hit. Next option would be to enclose a big enclosed patio play area in the backyard for the children to play. Just a thought.....
jenwilliams1781 ,He probably can afford to have someone mow his lawn. BUT then he faces a lawsuit with his property insurance when the mower gets hit with the ball and sues the landowner.
amelia ,And if everything you say is true,then I would have the same thoughts as most people here that they should have NEVER bought the home...I really do hope she disclosed it.
keepermel ,You could be right or could be wrong. Is the Mother who we DO NOT know telling it like it is? Or is the story made up? I think an investigation ,even a lie detector test could be in order here. Then her daughter could sue for the lies.
Posted by Old_Fart on December 20, 2007 at 8:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The owners of the home are trying everything they can to get out from under a bad decision, hopefully the Star will have a follow up article, but I doubt it cause this one made them look bad.
To the Star staff and writer of this story, ever done any investigations into any of your stories?
I think it would have been VERY easy to contact the realtor for the seller in this case, but then you wouldnt even have had the story.
Posted by bbbdugout on December 20, 2007 at 9:22 a.m. (Suggest removal)
what can you say - poor boy - buy a house near a golf course - no pity from this person
Posted by jkaspr on December 20, 2007 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)
No pity from me either....I will gladly trade them...my house for their golf ball issues...WAH...The star totally wasted print and ink on this.
Posted by Ulster on December 20, 2007 at 1:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Buy a house near the train tracks and you will have trains. If they don't even play golf, why did they move there? Did they expect the course to close down that hole after they moved in and complained so they could have their own private open space? Buyers remorse is obviously the case here. I can understand certain "disclosures," such as a bootlegged room addition, house built on an earthquake fault, or the 96 year old neighbor skinny dips, but to need to be told that you will have golf balls hit in your yard because you are adjacent to a golf course, it's common sense laddie.
Posted by jchuan on December 20, 2007 at 2:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I live right near Golf-n-Stuff in Ventura and they never disclosed either. My family is always nervous about balls bouncing off of the windmill at 18 and ricocheting in the home. Maybe I can have the sale of my home rescinded as well.
Yacht: $5,000,000.00
Mansion in Spanish Hills: 2,100,000.00
Not realizing that living next to the golf course means stray ball can land in the yard: PRICELESS
Posted by mandynathan on December 20, 2007 at 9:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I would trade problems with the Moores any day.
Posted by BLP3454 on December 21, 2007 at 5:14 a.m. (Suggest removal)
You've got to love the picture of Mr. Moore mowing his lawn. It looks like the lawn has already been mowed (probably by his gardener). I'll bet the thing is not even running. And the kneepads are a good touch. It's all about the image, and of course, he is in the film business.
Posted by devilangelhawk on December 21, 2007 at 7:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)
lol, thats all i can get out at the moment...
Posted by vcrdr on December 21, 2007 at 8:08 a.m. (Suggest removal)
This Star saw interest in the story to have it printed, afterall, look at the history of comments it has generated. What is shocking to me is how cruel and quick-to-judge some people are. People that weren't even present or even know the Moore's. Is it possible that the realtor herself was not disclosed properly by the seller? If this house had that much damage as the realtor's mother says, then why was it so expensive? Maybe the sellers are the ones that should be getting all the bad rap. Why are the buyers getting "kicked while they are down"? If the buyers really had buyer's remorse, this property would probably be in foreclosure already. Why would anyone go through the trouble of sharing their problem with the world if they were not innocent? So they have another house, a boat and good jobs, so what? What does that have to do with the golf issue?
Posted by SUBLIMETIME123 on December 21, 2007 at 11:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Can you all keep quiet! I am trying to tee off here! Thanks -Ty Webb
Posted by FedUp on December 21, 2007 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
to answer your question vcrdr, I will quote Mr. Moore again, like I have a couple of times already.
"Mark Moore said they invested everything they had to acquire the house and borrowed from their parents"
this tells me they are looking for sympathy. when they own another home in an affluent neighborhood, and quite possibly own a yacht as well, they will recieve no sympathy from me.
all this article reeked of was, wah wah wah. pity us because we were not given full disclosure. we never realized golf balls would frequently be hit into a yard that is backed up to a fairway on a golf course!!
my apologies Ty. we'll try and keep it down over here. look out for Judge Smales. he is a crooked one.
Posted by devilangelhawk on December 21, 2007 at 2:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)
vcrdr:
purely a lack of common sense in this case. and because they actually made it public...even though it has been going on since July...kinda odd people? and purely because, i can understand borrowing money from your paretns if you have a family and need an extra boost to get a house, but when it is to buy A SECOND house, there is a problem of little spoiled rich kid syndrome. And well, what they bought was not what they wanted so now comes the temper tantrum. And thank you Fedup.
Posted by Ulster on December 21, 2007 at 2:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is truly a community problem. I'm assuming the Star heard about this via the grapevine and thought that they must tell us all...or did Mr. Moore call the paper and say "please do a report on my idiotic purchase, I am such a moron and need everyone in the County to know that I am?" The picture is great...what a whiny little poser. I am going to wear the same outfit when I go golfing next. Although I think this guy is a dolt, I'm glad he told the paper. I'm having a great time reading these comments...AND I NEVER SLICE!
Posted by Twslv05 on December 21, 2007 at 5:58 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Amazing that someone who successfully purchases a home in this upscale nieghborhood can be so ignorant of the fact that errant golf balls would enter thier property that is on a GOLF COURSE for crying out loud.
Sounds like something Homer Simpson would do DOH!!
Posted by AnnaWhaat on December 22, 2007 at 9:09 a.m. (Suggest removal)
vcrdr ,I agree! Seems like alot of people are taking it out on the buyers due to the fact they have some money........Which is irrelavent (sp). This is a real problem for these homeowners and I feel for them........but then again I guess not everyone has a heart......
Posted by vcrdr on December 22, 2007 at 10:12 a.m. (Suggest removal)
It is unfortunate how the majority of today's society is so judgemental! If your neighbor has something better or more than you, the negative wall or jealousy comes out instead of being happy for that person's accomplishments. Do you think that people with money don't have problems? They have the same or sometimes twice the problems we have. Having money doesn't always mean one makes wise decisions every single time or that someone else isn't going to pull a fast one on you. Did any of you wonder that maybe the other house and the boat are for sale? How about the fact that his mom wants to live close to his son and grandkids? I think the Star gave out way, way too much information about these people, cause the public is attacking them on the material things and NOT on the issue of the danger of that house and those golf balls. I hope that until these issue gets resolved legally, golfers take more care at that tee unless they want to be known as the golfer that hurt or killed someone. Merry Christmas!
Posted by QuestionAuthority on December 22, 2007 at 12:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Buy a Home next to the Freeway - Expect to hear Vehicles day and night.
Buy a Home in a River Bed - Expect to be Flooded at one time or another.
Buy a Home next to a Railroad Track - Expect to hear Trains Day and Night.
Buy a Home on a Golf Course - Expect to be the recipient of a few stray Golf Balls.
_____
Move back into the Townhouse and Rent Out the Yacht and House on the Golf Course until the Market repairs itself. Cut loss's and move on.
Posted by devilangelhawk on December 23, 2007 at 4:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
haha, vcrdr:
who cares that they had money and had to borrow from mommie to by the house. i dont, i am living comfortably and i am far from rich. i would be happy living in a box, money doesnt matter to me personally. but the fact that they did not look into a house they were buying for such a large amout...asking quesitons, looking at the golf course. why be such a child, and try to blame it on something so stupid as money? they made a major stupid mistake and now they cant handle it on there own. it is a golf course, golfers will play as well as they can, some can not control the way the ball goes. if they are so worried, they can sell, it suck up the loss and move back into one of there other homes. and look for another house. it is plain and simple...yet getting way blown out of porportion.
it would suck if someone gets hit with a golf ball, they hurt, and with the force that they fall, it will do major damage. so, avoid the problem, AND MOVE OUT!
Posted by AnnaWhaat on December 24, 2007 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
If they own a Yacht which was only added in a comment. Maybe to make them look selfish or rich. We do not even know if that is true.......
Also they probably didn't realize that where thier home was located was at the same place where the hole at the golf course was directed towards thier home..........
Posted by devilangelhawk on December 24, 2007 at 6:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)
AnnaWhaat:
Do you know them? You defend them like you do. No body knows the truth. It was just a sad attempt to be pitied, thats all. If I had an issue like this, I would let it be made into the daily news. It would be my own personal business. But then again, I like to keep all my issues to myself unlike many people in this world.
Posted by dpennock on December 24, 2007 at 11:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sounds like it is time to build a tall driving range-type of fence. Buyer beware! The kneepads were a little over the top, I think. But, having said all that, honesty and disclosure is required in real estate transactions.
Posted by ZooMandel on December 26, 2007 at 6:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)
I find the comments of Laura's mother most interesting and revealing since this whole story didn't make sense to me. These people are not stupid and were not duped, they were very smart and got caught with their pants down.
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