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Tough immigration rules worry growers
Workers with questionable Social Security numbers must be fired
STORY TOOLS 
More from County NewsThe president of the Ventura County Agricultural Association said new rules the Bush administration will soon impose in an effort to crack down on illegal immigrants will put a stranglehold on local growers.
The rules, which will force employers to fire workers with questionable Social Security numbers, will act as a "noose around agriculture's neck," said President Rob Roy.
The Department of Homeland Security will soon make public the new regulations for employers who are notified when a worker's name or Social Security number is flagged by the Social Security Administration.
The rule as drafted requires employers to fire people who can't be verified as legal workers and can't resolve within 60 days why the names or Social Security numbers on their W-2 forms don't match the government's database.
Employers who don't comply could face fines of $250 to $10,000 per illegal worker and incident.
"There's a lot of fear and anxiety about what this rule is going to mean, particularly in the agricultural sector," said Craig Regelbrugge, spokesman for the American Nursery and Landscape Association and co-chairman of the Agriculture Coalition for Immigration Reform.
"The agricultural industry was hoping that this rule would be resolved in the context of comprehensive immigration reform legislation," Roy said.
Had such legislation been implemented this year, he said, it would have allowed existing workers to qualify for visas to stay for five years and would have modified the existing guest-worker program so that new people could come to work in the future.
"This proposed rule is going to be very difficult for agriculture," he said.
For years, the Social Security Administration has sent "no-match" letters to workers and their employers notifying them of the information discrepancies, to make sure money withheld from a person's paycheck is credited to the correct worker. The letters are not shared with other government agencies because of privacy laws.
Although employers are prohibited from hiring illegal workers, their responsibilities with the letters have generally ended with notifying the workers of the discrepancies and leaving it to them to deal with it.
Attorneys have warned many employers to be careful not to fire workers because they got the letters, because the no-match could be the result of typos in names or numbers, computer errors or name changes that weren't reported after marriages or other reasons.
However, those who don't comply with the new rule could be deemed as knowingly hiring illegal workers.
The Department of Homeland Security says the new rule provides guidance to employers on how to deal with workers who receive no-match letters and what to do: Fire them if the issue is not resolved in 60 days and they can't verify their workers are legal.
It gives employers who comply immunity from penalties if illegal workers are found at their business in investigations or raids, said Russ Knocke, Homeland Security Department spokesman.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, a division of the Homeland Security Department, "is going to be tough and aggressive in the enforcement of the law," Knocke said. "You are going to see more work-site cases, and no more excuses."
The administration trotted out the stepped-up enforcement plan last summer but put it on hold while the Senate debated an immigration reform bill.
That bill would have granted a chance at legal status for the estimated 11 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the country and created a temporary worker program. It also would have required employers to verify the status of all their workers.
After the bill collapsed in Congress, employers started bracing for the tougher rule.
"Congress didn't act. They didn't do what they needed to do on comprehensive immigration reform. Now there's going to be some pain to pay, and Congress is not going to feel the pain right away; it's the communities (of employees), and that's a real shame," said Laura Reiff, co-chairwoman of the Essential Workers Immigration Coalition, a national group of business and trade associations.
For Mark Chamblee, the stricter rule could mean losing some of his 28 workers at his nursery in Tyler, Texas.
Chamblee suspects a few of his workers could have trouble with their Social Security numbers and said he will fire them if the problems aren't resolved.
"Of course, it would add to the workload for the other workers," he said. "It would reduce our production and our output. Not all of our demand would be met on our products. Operating costs would go up."
Ray Atkinson, a spokesman for Pilgrim's Pride Corp., confirmed that the country's largest chicken processing company recently fired employees at two Texas plants.
The company's policy "for some time now" has been to terminate employees who can't clear up discrepancies, Atkinson said.
— Staff writer Stephanie Hoops contributed to this report.
Posted by Freedom1 on August 6, 2007 at 5:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)
The policy to notify employers and employees of possible fradulant SSN's with "no-match" letters has been going on since the late 1970's. Because there were no enforced consequences for either the employee or the employer no one paid any attention, so hiring and continued employment of those with stolen or false ID's became the norm. I'm sure the growers are not the only ones that are worried!
Posted by sokol_kiev on August 6, 2007 at 8:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Let me get this straight… the growers and members of the Agricultural Association are worried and have fear and anxiety about having to comply with the Department of Homeland Security's new regulations for employers who are notified when a worker's name or Social Security number is flagged by the Social Security Administration? Aren't they a wee bit backwards in their thought process?
I'd personally like to know why these growers aren't instead worried and have fear and anxiety about:
- Having American citizens' social security numbers and identities stolen and used by illegal immigrants?
- Seeing Americans out of work because they've lost their jobs to illegal immigrant workers who are willing to take away our jobs for depressed non-living wages?
- Having our tax dollars continue to subsidize illegal immigrants?
- Having our emergency healthcare facilities close down because they cannot financially keep up with the overwhelming number of illegal immigrants using their services for everyday healthcare needs?
- Seeing our children's schools deteriorate due to overcrowded classrooms filled with the children of illegal immigrants who cannot speak English, resulting in teachers having to give their primary focus to the non-English speaking illegal immigrant children… to the neglect of our American children?
- The rising percentage of violent crimes against American citizens at the hands of illegal immigrant gang members and drug smugglers?
- Our over-congested freeways as result of all the illegal immigrant un-insured drivers on our roads?
Posted by 4eviesviews on August 6, 2007 at 10:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)
When was the last time anyone saw "good old American citizens" bent over double and picking lettuce and fruit? Better yet, while pretending to be so wealthy and acting entitled, stop saving two dollars a bag at WalMart, another drain on the very resources you cite. But I guess that because it fits your fixed mindset/income, and the owners are "American" then we give them a free pass? Remember your comments when a year from now you find yourself complaining about the price of your monthly cobb salad and glass of wine lunch...Maybe you could get a dishwashing job to make up the difference.
Posted by Ventura22 on August 6, 2007 at 11:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Well, of course they are worried and should be! There goes their cheap and expendable labor force. They've been profiting on the backs of these people for years and now they are being held to the laws that they should have been a long time ago. It's hard to bust-up their pattern of greed when they've been groomed into it for so long.
Posted by sokol_kiev on August 6, 2007 at 11:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)
4eviesviews... why do you resort to using inaccurate and false (not to mention outdated) "pro-illegal alien talking points?" You only make yourself look bad doing so.
Firstly, Americans will most certainly do the jobs that illegal aliens have stolen from them... as long as the employers are willing to pay a decent living wage for services rendered versus the depresses wages accepted by illegal aliens. 4eviesviews, your failure to address the truly serious issue of all the U.S. citizens who used to work in the agriculture, foodservices, construction and landscaping jobs and have since been displaced from their jobs by illegal aliens is a shameful oversight on your part.
Secondly, your fear-mongering inference of how our purchase costs of vegetables/fruits and restaurant meals will skyrocket if illegal aliens are not the ones picking those fruits & veges or serving us our restaurant meals is pathetic… not to mention is simply untrue.
Try again...
Posted by shaver_one on August 6, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It used to be that food service jobs: ie fast food restaurants and table bussing, as well as retail merchandise stocking was done by high school kids wanting to earn extra money and get some work experience. I know...I used to do this as a kid. Now, the high school kids don't work. Alot of these jobs are filled with illegal and undocumented workers. Hire the student, and the work still gets done, taxes still get paid, payroll costs are still kept withing budget, and the consumer price does not go up. And, the employer doesn't have to worry about ICE.
Posted by FedUp on August 6, 2007 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)
plus, the high school kids would learn a thing or two about earning a dollar. nowadays, a large chunk of them are getting everything handed to them.
yes, there are plenty of americans willing to do the work that the illegals are doing right now. pay a fair living wage, and the people will come. continue to pay a low wage to the illegals, and watch the country you love so much crumble right around you.
Posted by jskdn on August 6, 2007 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Employers initially thought that no match letters meant something just as they initially thought the 1986 immigration act meant they couldn't hire illegals immigrants. They soon learned that the government had no real intention to enforce the law. The Clinton administration made it clear that employers who fired people would be subject to discrimination lawsuits, just in case the message that the law didn't matter wasn't enough. The advocacy organizations, including those supported by your tax dollars, ran campaigns to inform illegal immigrants to ignore the letters and that practice soon became the understood norm. The Bush administration even changed the policy of sending letters to employers about Social Security No-Match's to one that only sent letters to those who had 10 or more such employees.
The idea that keeping Social Security's information of likely illegal employment from other government agencies impeding them from doing their job is a privacy issue is laughable. This is part of the government's active collaboration in mass illegal immigration that has been fully aided by the media that subscribes to the same elite agenda.
I'm skeptical that the Bush administration has changed its stripes, even face with the widespread backlash that killed its amnesty agenda. In fact even if this policy is carried out it is ill conceived. It is likely to create serial illegal employment. It doesn't change some of the requirements for employers that have effectively sanctioned illegal employment. There will be a time lag between hiring an illegal with the ubiquitous false documents and the notification from the Social Security Administration that the employee doesn't match their record, which starts the 60-day clock. I expect informal job swapping networking will result. Continued..
Posted by jskdn on August 6, 2007 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)
An effective and simple method would to use the existing "Basic Pilot" program that can tell employers if the employee matches the government's records. But there is also no need to let a failure to meet that test keep an employee from being hired. The sensible practice would to let any potential employee be hired but only allow those who have been verified by the system to be paid. Those who weren't verified would have their wages submitted to the government with receipts given to the employee. They would receive those wages when their records were cleared up. That way illegal immigrants, who knew that would be impossible, would walk and legally entitled workers would clear up their records. The errors with respect to legal workers would rapidly shrink in number and they would be assured proper credit for the Social Security taxes paid on their behalf, a responsibility the SSA has ignored as successive administration pursued their pro-illegal immigration agendas.
But there is a second problem. When made up documents don't work, as happened in the meatpacking industry where the Basic Pilot program was instituted in response to flagrant hiring of illegals, identity theft becomes common. If the government doesn't apply common-sense diligence in regards to multiple uses of the same Name and Social Security numbers, as is the case today, this problem will become even more widespread.
Posted by hustin1 on August 6, 2007 at 2:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)
This is just bull about the grower's suffering...what about the people (families) here who live on the streets, because they can't earn enough money to live decently? If the growers (and construction companies) can't make it in their businesses by paying a decent salary to their employees (including worker's compensation) and utilizing measures to ensure legality, then they shouldn't be operating their businesses. Rules are rules. If you want to work here and live here, then follow the rules or go elsewhere. I have no problem believing that Agriculture can make plenty of profit hiring green card workers or "citizens"; they are just plain greedy. It's an easy excuse, but not a truthful one.
Posted by Equitable_Enforcer on August 6, 2007 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)
You who claim legal residents would not take certain jobs are not aware of what the illegal immigrant flood has done to our job market. My cousin has been a union carpenter all his adult life. He is an excellent carpenter. He was pushed out of employment by Spanish speaking individuals who now do all in their power to keep non Spanish speaking folks from what has become their realm. My cousin, in his 40's, has re-trained and is now driving a long haul truck. His love is carpentry. Behind our home, The Olson Company has a new development under construction. We hear the employees, along with their music, each day,as much as want to shut out the sound. Suffice it to say that you'll find few, if any, English speakers on that side of the wall behind our home.
sokol_kiev, you say it the way it is.
Posted by kelly13 on August 6, 2007 at 8:16 p.m. (Suggest removal)
Sokol_kiev...great post. I totally agree with all you said. I don't think many could disagree with common sense.You cannot justify illegal behavior and looking the other way has gotten us into the mess we are in.
We do not need illegal workers. We got along fine before they were here and we will get along fine after we thin out the herd. We have enough legal workers to get the jobs done.
If you make a list of all the negative effects illegals have on this country it would be a long and important list. Make another list of the postitive aspects of having illegals, it would be short...if anything at all.
Instead of calling this article "Tough immigration rules worry farmers", it should say "Ignoring the rules worry everyone".
Posted by KathrynAsh on August 6, 2007 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
The law is the law. The farmers were morons not to realize that in this day and age of terrorism, the Feds would start cracking down on the illegals coming over the border. The easiest way to stop illegal immigration is to stop the jobs. No money, no illegals, it's that simple.
I wonder if the feds are only going to go after those with obviously fake social security numbers, or if they'll also go after those who have stolen citizens identities. People would be horrified to know that sometimes 100s of illegals are using the same social security as a US citizen.
Posted by caragirl73 on August 6, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I agree with Sokol_kiev! It's nice to know that the laws that have been put in place by the people will finally be enforced. When my grandparents came to this country the first thing they did was learn English, become U.S. citizens and enroll in continuing education. (They came from the Philippines). My father said they never complained about working in the fields or their living conditions. They worked for a legal better life and didn't expect the government to provide for them or turn the other cheek when it came to following the laws of our country. America is made from aliens.... the legal ones make this country great the ones trying to RAPE the system should be deported. Most of them have had MANY years to become legal citizens and I have to say I have no sympathy for them. We have plenty of government resources to help everyone learn the language, get a job and become a U.S. citizens. I am sick of the pity parties. Take pride in America not take advantage!
Posted by single_usa_man on August 6, 2007 at 11:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)
4eviesviews;
Google the Bracero Progam someday and you will stop making stupid comments! My father picked lemons and oranges in High School, his parents picked cotton in Bakersfeild. My mom and her parents lived on the Lemco Del Mar Ranch in Ventura. Her mom worked in the packing house and her father drove the water truck. Everytime someone makes a stupid comment like yours, it makes her family so mad. They put 30 years into working in the agricultural industry. They saw the agricultural industry become over run with Illegals that would work for a cheaper wage.
My family is of Cherokee Indian and Irish Decent. Yep, White Americans. So know your facts before you post your racist comments.
Posted by imbetnonit on August 6, 2007 at 11:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)
It sounds so simple when ya'll put it that way. Maybe we could even get food that hasn't been peed on (or worse), so we don't get deathly ill after a cobb salad. I know where to find alot of spoiled teenagers to pick them crops. It could do them alot of good, get 'em down off their high horse. If we all pitch in, I think we could "git 'er done". What did we do before the invasion?
We have been force fed this bogus BS for so long, it is insulting.
Posted by nsolorzano87 on August 7, 2007 at 12:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)
People stop and smell the coffee, first of all we would all love to live in this world where being a strawberry picker would help us live a comfortable life in California! We live in a globalize economy! If farmers pay a livable wage to employees, the only person that it's going to affect is the consumer, simple economics! The consumer always takes the blow not the producer. So if this happens prepare to have you food shiped from China, Latin America, etc. because the price of growing food there is cheaper, meaning American companies are going to move to other countries, and then you people are going to be complaining that Americans are loosing jobs since they are leaving the country!! In Ventura County this is a huge industry, in California it's even a bigger, I think it's the number one industry in California, I think!!! So this might hurt Californias economy! An ofcoarse no "legal" American wants to work in the hot sun, sun up sun down! And undocumented immigrants draining the health care industry, where are those facts to prove it, I mean I'm not saying they don't drain it, but i haven't seen any facts about it. All the undocumented immigrants that I know are affraid that they are going to get deported so they avoid going to government own properties, for that fear! Sad to say that we need cheap labor, we always did, I mean who are we kidding, first it was the African Americans, than it was the Chinese Japenese and today it's the hispanics. White Americans never really work in the fields picking strawberries, cotton, etc.!!! But I'm curiouse to see what happens with this bill, it's going to prove who is wrong pro undocumented or the people who are against it. Again, everyone here thinks there an economist.
Posted by jamaro099 on August 7, 2007 at 7:33 a.m. (Suggest removal)
According to the article:
"It gives employers who comply immunity from penalties..................."
Why are you supporting this? I thought all of you were against any form of immunity?
Posted by imbetnonit on August 7, 2007 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)
We already import food from China and Latin America, so no point in "getting ready" for it.
It all comes down to right and wrong. What is it about the word "illegal" that is so hard to understand? If an employer is "complying" then why would they need immunity from penalties? People can make up all the fancy verbage all they want, but it still comes down to the fact that right is right and wrong is wrong. No one is against immigrants coming here through the proper channels and becoming a legal citizen. I myself have great respect for them. They walk with their head held high and they are not afraid, that's why they came here in the first place. We waste so many of our resources on this group of out-laws, it is so bizaare how our government caters to their needs while they turn their backs on the people who provide their paychecks, and their health insurance, and their nice pensions that last till they die. I mean really, what do they do that is so great to receive such benefits? Sometimes I think these politicians run for office just to get "set for life" cuz they sure aren't doing their jobs.
Posted by ahf86946 on August 7, 2007 at 2:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)
I'd love to see one of you snotty anti-undocumented immigrants work in the fields i'll pay you a decent amount just to watch you attempt to work as hard as undocumented immigrants do.
Your narrow minded and ignorant goes to show that you believe whatever the hegemonic power structure tells you to.
Posted by surfmedic91 on August 8, 2007 at 12:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)
pxh.18, you are correct. Illegal immigration is a threat to national security. The illegals working the fields work their butts off and are for the most part very friendly and humble. Without them working for low pay, the price of produce will dramatically increase.
Posted by dpennock on August 9, 2007 at 2:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)
Go other places and you see young people--ages 16-college working--at fast food, motels, field work, grocery stores, etc. What is so hard about obeying the law when it comes to hiring employees. Help stop identity theft--hire legal people!!!
Posted by KathrynAsh on August 9, 2007 at 4:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)
What's wrong w/ having produce grown in Mexico or Central America? That's where the workers are. It's a win win siutation. Americans tax payers can get cheap produce without having to pay for to educate the workers' children and pay for their healthcare. Plus, the farmers won't be spraying people's neighborhoods with chemicals like the strawberry farmers do.
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